The Trinity Options

[Kontroll]

All Christians agree on each of hte basic propositions that form the foundation for Trinitarianism, though Christians sometimes disagree on (1) how to explain the relationships between these basic statements and (2) what other biblical teachings might be added to the basic list to fill out the doctrine of the Trinity. This implies that all branches of the Church are unified in their basic confession of the Trinity so that whatever variations exist do not undermind the confession of trinitarian faith. It means that Christians are united in theirview of who God is. The Church is one. It also means that whoever does not afree with these basic biblical foundations for the trinitarian faith is, by definition, not a Christian.
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Before starting these basic propositions, it is important to say a few words about the often-noted fact that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Christians ask or are askedwhy, if the word is not in the Bible, do they use it? The answer is simple and has nothing to do with some conspiracy to add something to the Bible that really is not there. The word Trinity is used for theological and practical convenience -- it is 'theologicalshorthand,' a single word that sums up a series of biblical teachings. Instead of repeating the whole series of every time we speak of God, we substitute a single word that summarizes the truth. What, then, are these basic biblical propositions? The basic truth, wich all Christians afree upon, can be expressed in five propositions.

1. There is one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for the one God.

Analogy: Crystals of salt that appear on the beach after the tide has receded may be the most apparent proof that the sea is saltwater, but every bucket of water drawn from the ocean testifies clearly to the fact.

REFERENCES:
- - -
1. There is one God. (Deut. 6:4; I Sam. 2:2; 2Kgs. 19:15; Is. 37:16; 44:8; Mk. 12:28-24; I Cor. 8:4-6; I Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19). That the Bible teaches this proposition is not disputed.

2. The Father is God. (Rom. 1:7; I Cor. 1:3; 8:6 15:24; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 4:20). Again, this proposition is seldom disputed.
3. The Son is God. Because this proposition is frequently denied, I give a fuller statement of evidence, but still only scratches the surface.
a. The Son is called God. ( Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8).
b. The Son is given divine names. (Jn. 1:1, 18; Acts 5:31; I Cor. 2:8; Jas. 2:1; Rev. 1:8, 21:6; 22:13).
c. The Son has divine attributes.
i. Eternity. (Jn. 1:2; 8:58; 17:5; Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13).
ii. Immutability. (Heb. 1:11, 12; 13:8).
iii. Omnipresence. (Jn. 3:13; Mt. 18:20; 28:20).
iv. Omniscience. (Mt. 11:27; Jn. 2:23-25; 21:17; Rev. 2:23).
v. Omnipotence. (Jn. 5:17; Heb. 1:3; Rev. 1:8; 11:17).
d. The Son does divine works.
i. Creation. (Jn. 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16-17)
ii. Salvation. (Acts 4:12; 2 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 5:9).
iii. Judgment. (Jn. 5:22; 2 Cor. 5:10; Mt. 25:31-32).
e. The Son is worshipped as God. (Jn. 5:22-23; 20:28; I Cor. 1:2; Phil. 2:9-10; Heb. 1:6).
4. The Spirit is God. Those whose accept the biblical evidence for the deity of the Son seldom have trouble understanding the evidence for the deity of the Spirit.
a. The Spirit is called God. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17).
b. The Spirit is given divine names. (Mt. 12:28).
c. The Spirit has divine attributes. (I Cor. 2:13-14; Gal. 5:22; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7; 9:14; I Jn. 5:6-7).
d. The Spirit does divine works. (Jn. 6:33; 14:17, 26; 16:13; Acts 1:8; 2:17-18; 16:6; Rom. 8:26; 15:19; I Cor. 12:7-11).
e. The Spirit is worshipped as God. (Mt. 12:32).
5. The Father, Son and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for one God.
a. The Son prays to the Father. (Jn. 11:41-42; 17; Mt. 26:39 ff)
b. The Father speaks to the Son. (Jn. 12:27-28).
c. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit - all three - appear together, but are clearly distinct from one another. (Mt. 3:16-17).
d. The Father sends the Son and Spirit, and the Son sends the Spirit. (Jn. 3:17; 4:34; 5:30; 6:39; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7)
e. The Father and Son love one another. (Jn. 3:35; 5:20; 10:17; 14:31; 15:9-10; 17:24).

The Trinity and Logic
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Though it is clearly the teaching of the Bible, cultic groups and atheists often complain that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is a contradiction. How can there be one God and at the same time three who are called God? Christians seem to be saying that 1+1+1=1. This is simply bad arithmetic, we are told, not profound theology. The fact is, however, that the doctrine of the Trinity neither involves nor implies a contradiction. How, then, does a Christian explain that God is both one and three at the same time? The answer, in part, is that He is not one in precisely the same way that He is three. Trinitarianism would be a contradiction if it affirmed that God is one and three in precisely the same sense, but no one in the history of the Church has ever taught such a view. All the same, this is only a partial
answer.

There is a very great difference between something being a demonstrated contradiction and something being incomprehensible.

All words besides biblical references from Trinity & Reality An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Ralph A. Smith.

Yes, Heath21. This is this book that I want you to pick up.

Into the discussion I will go deeper into thought and show you what the Trinity is comprised of, and show the logic behind it.

[*.fire*]

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart;do not depend on your own understanding.

Wait, this is relevant, let me think why I posted this

[sweetangel2128]

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart;do not depend on your own understanding.

Wait, this is relevant, let me think why I posted this

Exactly. Therefore, study whats in the Bible, do not listen to what is man-made and what others preach. God made his Word pretty darn clear.

[Kontroll]

Exactly. Therefore, study whats in the Bible, do not listen to what is man-made and what others preach. God made his Word pretty darn clear.

That's not what its saying at all. It means don't listen to your own reasonings. Its saying that God is more powerful than you and has perfect knowledge and understanding. We don't.

Read something besides the Bible. Reason with it. If it makes sense and lines up with what the Bible says than it can't be bad.

As I was saying in my last post, God is love. To have love you need some one to love. If God was one being how could He love?

God says that he created man in his own image. Correct? So, if God truly was one being(monad) than we would be created with out love and have no personal attachment to anybody else.

If Muslims and Jews applied their notions of god consistently to their worldview, man's personality, too, would be found to lack ultimate meaning. Things that we rightly regard as essential to man's personhood -- that man speaks, laughs, and loves -- could only be accidental truths at best. Nothing in the deity would correspond to social relations. This raises a question: What would it mean to say that we are created in the image of the lonely monad? If man is thought to be like such a god, what impact would that have, for example, on our notion of the ideal life in this world? Should it be one that lacks these personal qualities or transcends them? What about the idea of heaven? Should man look forward to an eternity of silent self-contemplation?

Think about it. To have a Triune God only makes sense.

If we never listened to anything besides the Bible, how would we know what is what? You obviously learned at least some bits of math, English, history, science... To say that we should only trust God's word is a superficial truth. You can't grasp His word if you have no knowledge of outside influences. That's why alot of Christians need to go through some sort of struggle to understand God's word. They will read something and not understand it. You won't find it in any text books, or anything, but it's something that you need to experience. If God made everything black and white, don't you think that the church would have one set rule of doctrines? The Bible isn't always clear. That's one thing that you need to learn. What else that you need to learn is that you can't be blind in your faith.

[sweetangel2128]

That's not what its saying at all. It means don't listen to your own reasonings. Its saying that God is more powerful than you and has perfect knowledge and understanding. We don't.

Read something besides the Bible. Reason with it. If it makes sense and lines up with what the Bible says than it can't be bad.

It's very clear in what it says, trust the lord - meaning read his word, do not depend upon your own understanding of what you "think" he means, he is very clear in his Word.

Don't assume. I do read other books other then the Bible, Christian books and I love them. But I am going to go off of God's word and God's word only which is the Bible, if a certain thing is not in there, I will not believe in it.

[Kontroll]

It's very clear in what it says, trust the lord - meaning read his word, do not depend upon your own understanding of what you "think" he means, he is very clear in his Word.

Don't assume. I do read other books other then the Bible, Christian books and I love them. But I am going to go off of God's word and God's word only which is the Bible, if a certain thing is not in there, I will not believe in it.

I have a question for you:

The Bible makes it clear that you shall not have sex outside of marriage. What technicality it doesn't imply is that you don't only have to have sex with your spouse. So, knowing that, would you say that the Bible is always clear?

There's a certain code that runs throughout the Bible. It's called the Heptetic code. Starting at a certain point you could a certain number of letters or characters. After you reach that one, you count the same amount again. I think it's every 49 letters or something like that. There is no where in the Bible that mentions God's word having such a unique code to show that God truly did inspire the Bible.

How do you feel about that? Such uncertainties.

This same kind of biblical ignorance is all too present around the topic of homosexuality. Often people who love and trust God's Word have never given careful and prayerful attention to what the Bible does or doesn't say about homosexuality.

For example, many Christians don't know that:

* Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
* The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality.
* Only six or seven of the Bible's one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way -- and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it's understood today.

Most people who are certain they know what the Bible says about homosexuality don't know where the verses that reference same-sex behavior can be found. They haven't read them, let alone studied them carefully. They don't know the original meaning of the words in Hebrew or Greek. And they haven't tried to understand the historical context in which those words were written. Yet the assumption that the Bible condemns homosexuality is passed down from generation to generation with very little personal study or research. The consequences of this misinformation are disastrous, not only for God's gay and lesbian children, but for the entire church.

He's right.

[sweetangel2128]

I have a question for you:

The Bible makes it clear that you shall not have sex outside of marriage. What technicality it doesn't imply is that you don't only have to have sex with your spouse. So, knowing that, would you say that the Bible is always clear?

Yes that is in there and it is clear. It says not to fornicate which is sex before marriage but it also says not to committ adultry which is having sex with another man while being married or having sex with someone else's spouse.

Same sex behavior is mentioned in the Bible, heres the verse:

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies
with a woman; that is detestable.

Romans 1:26,27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.
Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations
with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.
Men committed indecent acts with other men,
and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1Corinthians 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Ps: This is only three, there are more.