The Trinity Options

[Kontroll]

All Christians agree on each of hte basic propositions that form the foundation for Trinitarianism, though Christians sometimes disagree on (1) how to explain the relationships between these basic statements and (2) what other biblical teachings might be added to the basic list to fill out the doctrine of the Trinity. This implies that all branches of the Church are unified in their basic confession of the Trinity so that whatever variations exist do not undermind the confession of trinitarian faith. It means that Christians are united in theirview of who God is. The Church is one. It also means that whoever does not afree with these basic biblical foundations for the trinitarian faith is, by definition, not a Christian.
---

Before starting these basic propositions, it is important to say a few words about the often-noted fact that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Christians ask or are askedwhy, if the word is not in the Bible, do they use it? The answer is simple and has nothing to do with some conspiracy to add something to the Bible that really is not there. The word Trinity is used for theological and practical convenience -- it is 'theologicalshorthand,' a single word that sums up a series of biblical teachings. Instead of repeating the whole series of every time we speak of God, we substitute a single word that summarizes the truth. What, then, are these basic biblical propositions? The basic truth, wich all Christians afree upon, can be expressed in five propositions.

1. There is one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for the one God.

Analogy: Crystals of salt that appear on the beach after the tide has receded may be the most apparent proof that the sea is saltwater, but every bucket of water drawn from the ocean testifies clearly to the fact.

REFERENCES:
- - -
1. There is one God. (Deut. 6:4; I Sam. 2:2; 2Kgs. 19:15; Is. 37:16; 44:8; Mk. 12:28-24; I Cor. 8:4-6; I Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19). That the Bible teaches this proposition is not disputed.

2. The Father is God. (Rom. 1:7; I Cor. 1:3; 8:6 15:24; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 4:20). Again, this proposition is seldom disputed.
3. The Son is God. Because this proposition is frequently denied, I give a fuller statement of evidence, but still only scratches the surface.
a. The Son is called God. ( Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8).
b. The Son is given divine names. (Jn. 1:1, 18; Acts 5:31; I Cor. 2:8; Jas. 2:1; Rev. 1:8, 21:6; 22:13).
c. The Son has divine attributes.
i. Eternity. (Jn. 1:2; 8:58; 17:5; Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13).
ii. Immutability. (Heb. 1:11, 12; 13:8).
iii. Omnipresence. (Jn. 3:13; Mt. 18:20; 28:20).
iv. Omniscience. (Mt. 11:27; Jn. 2:23-25; 21:17; Rev. 2:23).
v. Omnipotence. (Jn. 5:17; Heb. 1:3; Rev. 1:8; 11:17).
d. The Son does divine works.
i. Creation. (Jn. 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16-17)
ii. Salvation. (Acts 4:12; 2 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 5:9).
iii. Judgment. (Jn. 5:22; 2 Cor. 5:10; Mt. 25:31-32).
e. The Son is worshipped as God. (Jn. 5:22-23; 20:28; I Cor. 1:2; Phil. 2:9-10; Heb. 1:6).
4. The Spirit is God. Those whose accept the biblical evidence for the deity of the Son seldom have trouble understanding the evidence for the deity of the Spirit.
a. The Spirit is called God. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17).
b. The Spirit is given divine names. (Mt. 12:28).
c. The Spirit has divine attributes. (I Cor. 2:13-14; Gal. 5:22; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7; 9:14; I Jn. 5:6-7).
d. The Spirit does divine works. (Jn. 6:33; 14:17, 26; 16:13; Acts 1:8; 2:17-18; 16:6; Rom. 8:26; 15:19; I Cor. 12:7-11).
e. The Spirit is worshipped as God. (Mt. 12:32).
5. The Father, Son and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for one God.
a. The Son prays to the Father. (Jn. 11:41-42; 17; Mt. 26:39 ff)
b. The Father speaks to the Son. (Jn. 12:27-28).
c. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit - all three - appear together, but are clearly distinct from one another. (Mt. 3:16-17).
d. The Father sends the Son and Spirit, and the Son sends the Spirit. (Jn. 3:17; 4:34; 5:30; 6:39; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7)
e. The Father and Son love one another. (Jn. 3:35; 5:20; 10:17; 14:31; 15:9-10; 17:24).

The Trinity and Logic
- - -
Though it is clearly the teaching of the Bible, cultic groups and atheists often complain that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is a contradiction. How can there be one God and at the same time three who are called God? Christians seem to be saying that 1+1+1=1. This is simply bad arithmetic, we are told, not profound theology. The fact is, however, that the doctrine of the Trinity neither involves nor implies a contradiction. How, then, does a Christian explain that God is both one and three at the same time? The answer, in part, is that He is not one in precisely the same way that He is three. Trinitarianism would be a contradiction if it affirmed that God is one and three in precisely the same sense, but no one in the history of the Church has ever taught such a view. All the same, this is only a partial
answer.

There is a very great difference between something being a demonstrated contradiction and something being incomprehensible.

All words besides biblical references from Trinity & Reality An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Ralph A. Smith.

Yes, Heath21. This is this book that I want you to pick up.

Into the discussion I will go deeper into thought and show you what the Trinity is comprised of, and show the logic behind it.

[sweetangel2128]

All Christians agree on each of hte basic propositions that form the foundation for Trinitarianism, though Christians sometimes disagree on (1) how to explain the relationships between these basic statements and (2) what other biblical teachings might be added to the basic list to fill out the doctrine of the Trinity. This implies that all branches of the Church are unified in their basic confession of the Trinity so that whatever variations exist do not undermind the confession of trinitarian faith. It means that Christians are united in theirview of who God is. The Church is one. It also means that whoever does not afree with these basic biblical foundations for the trinitarian faith is, by definition, not a Christian.
---

Before starting these basic propositions, it is important to say a few words about the often-noted fact that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Christians ask or are askedwhy, if the word is not in the Bible, do they use it? The answer is simple and has nothing to do with some conspiracy to add something to the Bible that really is not there. The word Trinity is used for theological and practical convenience -- it is 'theologicalshorthand,' a single word that sums up a series of biblical teachings. Instead of repeating the whole series of every time we speak of God, we substitute a single word that summarizes the truth. What, then, are these basic biblical propositions? The basic truth, wich all Christians afree upon, can be expressed in five propositions.

1. There is one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for the one God.

Analogy: Crystals of salt that appear on the beach after the tide has receded may be the most apparent proof that the sea is saltwater, but every bucket of water drawn from the ocean testifies clearly to the fact.

REFERENCES:
- - -
1. There is one God. (Deut. 6:4; I Sam. 2:2; 2Kgs. 19:15; Is. 37:16; 44:8; Mk. 12:28-24; I Cor. 8:4-6; I Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19). That the Bible teaches this proposition is not disputed.

2. The Father is God. (Rom. 1:7; I Cor. 1:3; 8:6 15:24; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 4:20). Again, this proposition is seldom disputed.
3. The Son is God. Because this proposition is frequently denied, I give a fuller statement of evidence, but still only scratches the surface.
a. The Son is called God. ( Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8).
b. The Son is given divine names. (Jn. 1:1, 18; Acts 5:31; I Cor. 2:8; Jas. 2:1; Rev. 1:8, 21:6; 22:13).
c. The Son has divine attributes.
i. Eternity. (Jn. 1:2; 8:58; 17:5; Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13).
ii. Immutability. (Heb. 1:11, 12; 13:8).
iii. Omnipresence. (Jn. 3:13; Mt. 18:20; 28:20).
iv. Omniscience. (Mt. 11:27; Jn. 2:23-25; 21:17; Rev. 2:23).
v. Omnipotence. (Jn. 5:17; Heb. 1:3; Rev. 1:8; 11:17).
d. The Son does divine works.
i. Creation. (Jn. 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16-17)
ii. Salvation. (Acts 4:12; 2 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 5:9).
iii. Judgment. (Jn. 5:22; 2 Cor. 5:10; Mt. 25:31-32).
e. The Son is worshipped as God. (Jn. 5:22-23; 20:28; I Cor. 1:2; Phil. 2:9-10; Heb. 1:6).
4. The Spirit is God. Those whose accept the biblical evidence for the deity of the Son seldom have trouble understanding the evidence for the deity of the Spirit.
a. The Spirit is called God. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17).
b. The Spirit is given divine names. (Mt. 12:28).
c. The Spirit has divine attributes. (I Cor. 2:13-14; Gal. 5:22; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7; 9:14; I Jn. 5:6-7).
d. The Spirit does divine works. (Jn. 6:33; 14:17, 26; 16:13; Acts 1:8; 2:17-18; 16:6; Rom. 8:26; 15:19; I Cor. 12:7-11).
e. The Spirit is worshipped as God. (Mt. 12:32).
5. The Father, Son and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for one God.
a. The Son prays to the Father. (Jn. 11:41-42; 17; Mt. 26:39 ff)
b. The Father speaks to the Son. (Jn. 12:27-28).
c. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit - all three - appear together, but are clearly distinct from one another. (Mt. 3:16-17).
d. The Father sends the Son and Spirit, and the Son sends the Spirit. (Jn. 3:17; 4:34; 5:30; 6:39; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7)
e. The Father and Son love one another. (Jn. 3:35; 5:20; 10:17; 14:31; 15:9-10; 17:24).

The Trinity and Logic
- - -
Though it is clearly the teaching of the Bible, cultic groups and atheists often complain that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is a contradiction. How can there be one God and at the same time three who are called God? Christians seem to be saying that 1+1+1=1. This is simply bad arithmetic, we are told, not profound theology. The fact is, however, that the doctrine of the Trinity neither involves nor implies a contradiction. How, then, does a Christian explain that God is both one and three at the same time? The answer, in part, is that He is not one in precisely the same way that He is three. Trinitarianism would be a contradiction if it affirmed that God is one and three in precisely the same sense, but no one in the history of the Church has ever taught such a view. All the same, this is only a partial
answer.

There is a very great difference between something being a demonstrated contradiction and something being incomprehensible.

All words besides biblical references from Trinity & Reality An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Ralph A. Smith.

Yes, Heath21. This is this book that I want you to pick up.

Into the discussion I will go deeper into thought and show you what the Trinity is comprised of, and show the logic behind it.

Firstly, you didn't have to mention my name to the public.

I still don't believe in it, God is not 3 different persons

But I don't mind seeing others views on this.

[Kontroll]

Firstly, you didn't have to mention my name to the public.

I still don't believe in it, God is not 3 different persons

But I don't mind seeing others views on this.

You said you believe in God's word. Now I'm showing it to you, and you're openly denying it. Well, I guess there's no more as a Christian I can do for you.

[sweetangel2128]

You said you believe in God's word. Now I'm showing it to you, and you're openly denying it. Well, I guess there's no more as a Christian I can do for you.

Yes, I do believe in God's word but the Trinity is not in anyway God's word, it isn't even in the Bible, it is not biblical and it was man-made, not God-made which is why I do not believe in it. So, therefore, it is not God's word.

Jessica, wanted me to tell you this, she is sick and isn't able to come and post this so I am giving you her answer on the whole trinity thing:

"You are underestimating God by believing in the trinity because by believing in it you are saying that God can't be in two or three places at once, that because Jesus was on earth that he can't be God because God would have to be in heaven. You don't understand that we cannot even begin to think like God does, he is on higher thinking level and has powers we can't even begin to comprehend on earth, he is not of this world so we can't think of him as if he is an earthly being. You are saying he is not powerful enough to be on earth and in heaven at the same time. When Jesus prayed to the father, he was praying to the spirit of God which was in him, see Jesus was fully man and fully God, the flesh part of him was totally different then the spirit of him, which was the full God part of him. So his flesh flesh prayed to his spirit, and his flesh said "father why hast thou forsaken me" on the cross, that was his flesh crying out. That's why the bible tells us to fast and pray because fasting, going without food, weakens our flesh and strengthens our spirit, that's why Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert, he was preparing himself for his death. People who believe in the trinity also believe in getting baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost when the bible tells us after Jesus was ressurected and ascended up to heaven, to get baptized in the name of Jesus only, not in the name of the father son and holy ghost. Acts 2:38 and other scriptures tell us to do it in the name of Jesus, why? Because he is the Father, he is the son, and he is the holy ghost, he sums up all three. The trinitarians, lol, will argue with you about that because Jesus himself told us to get baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost, but after his death and ressurection, we had to get baptized in the name of Jesus because Jesus wasn't going to tell us to get baptized in his name, he wanted us to belieive he was God so that we would eventually realize that we need to pray in his name, get baptized in his name and so on."

[Kontroll]

Yes, I do believe in God's word but the Trinity is not in anyway God's word, it isn't even in the Bible, it is not biblical and it was man-made, not God-made which is why I do not believe in it. So, therefore, it is not God's word.

Jessica, wanted me to tell you this, she is sick and isn't able to come and post this so I am giving you her answer on the whole trinity thing:

"You are underestimating God by believing in the trinity because by believing in it you are saying that God can't be in two or three places at once, that because Jesus was on earth that he can't be God because God would have to be in heaven. You don't understand that we cannot even begin to think like God does, he is on higher thinking level and has powers we can't even begin to comprehend on earth, he is not of this world so we can't think of him as if he is an earthly being. You are saying he is not powerful enough to be on earth and in heaven at the same time. When Jesus prayed to the father, he was praying to the spirit of God which was in him, see Jesus was fully man and fully God, the flesh part of him was totally different then the spirit of him, which was the full God part of him. So his flesh flesh prayed to his spirit, and his flesh said "father why hast thou forsaken me" on the cross, that was his flesh crying out. That's why the bible tells us to fast and pray because fasting, going without food, weakens our flesh and strengthens our spirit, that's why Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert, he was preparing himself for his death. People who believe in the trinity also believe in getting baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost when the bible tells us after Jesus was ressurected and ascended up to heaven, to get baptized in the name of Jesus only, not in the name of the father son and holy ghost. Acts 2:38 and other scriptures tell us to do it in the name of Jesus, why? Because he is the Father, he is the son, and he is the holy ghost, he sums up all three. The trinitarians, lol, will argue with you about that because Jesus himself told us to get baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost, but after his death and ressurection, we had to get baptized in the name of Jesus because Jesus wasn't going to tell us to get baptized in his name, he wanted us to belieive he was God so that we would eventually realize that we need to pray in his name, get baptized in his name and so on."

It's just theological shorthand to describe God. That's all. I know it's man made. That's all I'm trying to say.

- - -

Personhood and Harmony
- - -
The implications of the doctrine of the Trinity are far-reaching and deep. How could it be otherwise? God is the infinite, incomprehensible, transcendent Lord. He is also the Father, who is always near us. When we consider the implications of trinitarianism, we are meditating on who He is and how He reveals Himself to us. Because of His majesty and greatness, we are too confronted with mystery -- but the mystery is neither dark nor foggy. It is the radiant luster of God's light that overwhelms us. The Christian God is a mystery to us but not to Himself. The Persons of the Trinity have an absolute knowledge of one another. In the mind of God, truth is an entirely rational and perfect system, for God cannot contradict Himself (2 Tim. 2:13; Tit. 1:2; Jas. 1:13, 17).

A Personal God and a Personal World
- - -
Of all the gods in all the religions of the world, only the triune God of the Bible is truly and wholly personal. This point is often not recognized, so we will dwell on it briefly. First, consider the non-Christian theism embraced by Jews, and Muslims, the belief in a single god who rules the world. By itself, theism will not suffice to give us a truly personal god, for a god who is utterly and simply one -- a mere monad -- fails to have the qualities we know to be essential to personality. Although an absolute monad, like the god of Islam, is the most exalted non-Christian idea of deity, a monad is a being who is eternally alone -- with one other to love, no other with whom to communicate, and no other with whom to have fellowship. In the case of such a solitary god, love, fellowship, and communication cannot be essential to his being. Indeed, they are no part of the monad at all. But without these qualities it is difficult to imagine that the deity so understood is in any meaningful sense personal. To conceive of a god who does not know love, a god who has never shared, a god for whom a relationship with another is eternally irrelevant, is to conceive of an abstraction, an idea or a thing more than a person.

If, to make his god more personal, a believer in such a deity suggested that his god loved the world after he created it, the result would be a god who changes in time and who needs the world in order to grow into his self realization as a god of love -- a god who becomes personal only with the help of the creation. Suppose one asserted that the monad loved the world from eternity? Then the personality of this deity and his attributes of love would still depend for their existence on the world he created. Creation would be a necessary act of self-becoming. For, unless this deity created the world, he could not realize the love that had been eternally hidden in him, waiting for its time to shine forth.

- - -

This says that God cannot be one being(monad) because that would make him inconsistent and non loving. The fact that God is so uniquely a triune God makes the Christian faith make sense. Without the Trinity we are just another theistic group out there, such as Judaism and Islam.

- - -

All the text that I write here is from the book previously mentioned. I suggest anyone who is interested in the Trinity should pick it up and read it. It's truly a great Christian book, and I hate Christian books...besides the Bible.