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The Trinity
Kontroll
post Mar 17 2007, 03:51 PM
Post #1


Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer.
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All Christians agree on each of hte basic propositions that form the foundation for Trinitarianism, though Christians sometimes disagree on (1) how to explain the relationships between these basic statements and (2) what other biblical teachings might be added to the basic list to fill out the doctrine of the Trinity. This implies that all branches of the Church are unified in their basic confession of the Trinity so that whatever variations exist do not undermind the confession of trinitarian faith. It means that Christians are united in theirview of who God is. The Church is one. It also means that whoever does not afree with these basic biblical foundations for the trinitarian faith is, by definition, not a Christian.
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Before starting these basic propositions, it is important to say a few words about the often-noted fact that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Christians ask or are askedwhy, if the word is not in the Bible, do they use it? The answer is simple and has nothing to do with some conspiracy to add something to the Bible that really is not there. The word Trinity is used for theological and practical convenience -- it is 'theologicalshorthand,' a single word that sums up a series of biblical teachings. Instead of repeating the whole series of every time we speak of God, we substitute a single word that summarizes the truth. What, then, are these basic biblical propositions? The basic truth, wich all Christians afree upon, can be expressed in five propositions.

1. There is one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for the one God.

Analogy: Crystals of salt that appear on the beach after the tide has receded may be the most apparent proof that the sea is saltwater, but every bucket of water drawn from the ocean testifies clearly to the fact.

REFERENCES:
- - -
1. There is one God. (Deut. 6:4; I Sam. 2:2; 2Kgs. 19:15; Is. 37:16; 44:8; Mk. 12:28-24; I Cor. 8:4-6; I Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19). That the Bible teaches this proposition is not disputed.

2. The Father is God. (Rom. 1:7; I Cor. 1:3; 8:6 15:24; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 4:20). Again, this proposition is seldom disputed.
3. The Son is God. Because this proposition is frequently denied, I give a fuller statement of evidence, but still only scratches the surface.
a. The Son is called God. ( Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8).
b. The Son is given divine names. (Jn. 1:1, 18; Acts 5:31; I Cor. 2:8; Jas. 2:1; Rev. 1:8, 21:6; 22:13).
c. The Son has divine attributes.
i. Eternity. (Jn. 1:2; 8:58; 17:5; Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13).
ii. Immutability. (Heb. 1:11, 12; 13:8).
iii. Omnipresence. (Jn. 3:13; Mt. 18:20; 28:20).
iv. Omniscience. (Mt. 11:27; Jn. 2:23-25; 21:17; Rev. 2:23).
v. Omnipotence. (Jn. 5:17; Heb. 1:3; Rev. 1:8; 11:17).
d. The Son does divine works.
i. Creation. (Jn. 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16-17)
ii. Salvation. (Acts 4:12; 2 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 5:9).
iii. Judgment. (Jn. 5:22; 2 Cor. 5:10; Mt. 25:31-32).
e. The Son is worshipped as God. (Jn. 5:22-23; 20:28; I Cor. 1:2; Phil. 2:9-10; Heb. 1:6).
4. The Spirit is God. Those whose accept the biblical evidence for the deity of the Son seldom have trouble understanding the evidence for the deity of the Spirit.
a. The Spirit is called God. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17).
b. The Spirit is given divine names. (Mt. 12:28).
c. The Spirit has divine attributes. (I Cor. 2:13-14; Gal. 5:22; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7; 9:14; I Jn. 5:6-7).
d. The Spirit does divine works. (Jn. 6:33; 14:17, 26; 16:13; Acts 1:8; 2:17-18; 16:6; Rom. 8:26; 15:19; I Cor. 12:7-11).
e. The Spirit is worshipped as God. (Mt. 12:32).
5. The Father, Son and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for one God.
a. The Son prays to the Father. (Jn. 11:41-42; 17; Mt. 26:39 ff)
b. The Father speaks to the Son. (Jn. 12:27-28).
c. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit - all three - appear together, but are clearly distinct from one another. (Mt. 3:16-17).
d. The Father sends the Son and Spirit, and the Son sends the Spirit. (Jn. 3:17; 4:34; 5:30; 6:39; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7)
e. The Father and Son love one another. (Jn. 3:35; 5:20; 10:17; 14:31; 15:9-10; 17:24).

The Trinity and Logic
- - -
Though it is clearly the teaching of the Bible, cultic groups and atheists often complain that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is a contradiction. How can there be one God and at the same time three who are called God? Christians seem to be saying that 1+1+1=1. This is simply bad arithmetic, we are told, not profound theology. The fact is, however, that the doctrine of the Trinity neither involves nor implies a contradiction. How, then, does a Christian explain that God is both one and three at the same time? The answer, in part, is that He is not one in precisely the same way that He is three. Trinitarianism would be a contradiction if it affirmed that God is one and three in precisely the same sense, but no one in the history of the Church has ever taught such a view. All the same, this is only a partial
answer.

There is a very great difference between something being a demonstrated contradiction and something being incomprehensible.

All words besides biblical references from Trinity & Reality An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Ralph A. Smith.

Yes, Heath21. This is this book that I want you to pick up.

Into the discussion I will go deeper into thought and show you what the Trinity is comprised of, and show the logic behind it.
 

Posts in this topic
JakeKKing   The Trinity   Mar 17 2007, 03:51 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 17 2007, 1:51 PM) A...   Mar 17 2007, 04:24 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 17 2007, 5:24 PM) Fir...   Mar 17 2007, 08:38 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 17 2007, 6:38 PM) Y...   Mar 17 2007, 10:15 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 17 2007, 11:15 PM) Ye...   Mar 17 2007, 11:30 PM
.fire   I believe there are things beyond our knowledge th...   Mar 17 2007, 09:02 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(.fire @ Mar 17 2007, 10:02 PM) I be...   Mar 17 2007, 09:43 PM
.fire   Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart...   Mar 17 2007, 10:25 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(.fire @ Mar 17 2007, 8:25 PM) Prove...   Mar 18 2007, 01:23 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 2:23 AM) Exa...   Mar 18 2007, 01:30 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 17 2007, 11:30 PM) ...   Mar 18 2007, 01:34 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 2:34 AM) It...   Mar 18 2007, 01:45 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 17 2007, 11:45 PM) ...   Mar 18 2007, 01:51 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 2:51 AM) Yes...   Mar 18 2007, 02:04 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 12:04 AM) ...   Mar 18 2007, 02:09 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 3:09 AM) I a...   Mar 18 2007, 02:13 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 12:13 AM) ...   Mar 18 2007, 02:20 AM
Heath21   It's clear that you have stated that he isn...   Mar 18 2007, 03:20 PM
JakeKKing   Jesus was a prophet. I gave you a thousand differe...   Mar 18 2007, 02:25 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 12:25 AM) ...   Mar 18 2007, 02:43 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 3:43 AM) I a...   Mar 18 2007, 02:53 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 12:53 AM) ...   Mar 18 2007, 03:01 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 4:01 AM) Ps:...   Mar 18 2007, 03:15 PM
Uronacid   Omg, Heath21.. I don't know what to tell you. ...   Mar 18 2007, 06:13 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(Uronacid @ Mar 18 2007, 4:13 PM) Om...   Mar 18 2007, 06:18 PM
Arjuna Capulong   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 7:18 PM) Tha...   Mar 18 2007, 06:22 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(Arjuna Capulong @ Mar 18 2007, 4:22...   Mar 18 2007, 08:43 PM
Arjuna Capulong   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 18 2007, 9:43 PM) Yes...   Mar 18 2007, 08:45 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(Arjuna Capulong @ Mar 18 2007, 6:45...   Mar 18 2007, 08:47 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Uronacid @ Mar 18 2007, 7:13 PM) Om...   Mar 19 2007, 12:38 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 10:38 PM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 12:40 AM
happykmd   QUOTEThat term is a sin against one of God's 1...   Mar 18 2007, 06:42 PM
happykmd   ^ Yeah, it might be bad for a Christian to say, bu...   Mar 18 2007, 09:10 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(happykmd @ Mar 18 2007, 7:10 PM) ^ ...   Mar 18 2007, 09:14 PM
Arjuna Capulong   So I suppose you're basically saying that alth...   Mar 18 2007, 09:17 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(Arjuna Capulong @ Mar 18 2007, 7:17...   Mar 18 2007, 09:24 PM
JakeKKing   The term Trinity is not in the Bible, and we have ...   Mar 19 2007, 12:50 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 10:50 PM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 12:56 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 19 2007, 1:56 AM) Her...   Mar 19 2007, 01:33 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 11:33 PM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 02:18 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 19 2007, 3:18 AM) Yes...   Mar 19 2007, 02:37 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 12:37 AM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 02:42 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 19 2007, 3:42 AM) I r...   Mar 19 2007, 02:45 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 12:45 AM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 02:52 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 19 2007, 3:52 AM) Tru...   Mar 19 2007, 02:57 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 12:57 AM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 03:48 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 19 2007, 4:48 AM) I g...   Mar 19 2007, 08:44 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 6:44 AM) I...   Mar 19 2007, 08:59 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 19 2007, 9:59 AM) You...   Mar 19 2007, 11:02 AM
Jessica C.   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 18 2007, 11:45 PM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 11:33 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(Jessica C. @ Mar 19 2007, 9:33 PM) ...   Mar 19 2007, 11:46 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 12:46 AM) *C...   Mar 20 2007, 12:16 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 10:16 PM) ...   Mar 20 2007, 12:20 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 1:20 AM) No ...   Mar 20 2007, 01:00 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 11:00 PM) ...   Mar 20 2007, 01:38 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 2:38 AM) Fir...   Mar 20 2007, 01:43 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 11:43 PM) ...   Mar 20 2007, 01:48 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 2:48 AM) No,...   Mar 20 2007, 01:56 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 11:56 PM) ...   Mar 20 2007, 01:59 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 2:59 AM) Yea...   Mar 20 2007, 02:03 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 20 2007, 12:03 AM) ...   Mar 20 2007, 02:06 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 3:06 AM) A l...   Mar 20 2007, 02:15 AM
Luciadus   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 20 2007, 3:15 AM) W...   Mar 20 2007, 10:52 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Luciadus @ Mar 20 2007, 11:52 AM) D...   Mar 20 2007, 11:05 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 20 2007, 9:05 AM) D...   Mar 20 2007, 01:33 PM
Luciadus   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 2:33 PM) Inc...   Mar 20 2007, 04:42 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(Luciadus @ Mar 20 2007, 2:42 PM) My...   Mar 20 2007, 08:00 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 20 2007, 9:00 PM) I s...   Mar 20 2007, 11:56 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 20 2007, 9:56 PM) F...   Mar 21 2007, 01:17 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 21 2007, 2:17 AM) Fir...   Mar 21 2007, 02:40 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 21 2007, 12:40 AM) ...   Mar 21 2007, 02:45 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 21 2007, 3:45 AM) Why...   Mar 21 2007, 03:03 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 21 2007, 1:03 AM) F...   Mar 21 2007, 03:10 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 21 2007, 4:10 AM) Wel...   Mar 21 2007, 11:12 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 21 2007, 9:12 AM) W...   Mar 21 2007, 02:15 PM
Jessica C.   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 21 2007, 8:12 AM) W...   Mar 22 2007, 01:35 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(Jessica C. @ Mar 21 2007, 11:35 PM)...   Mar 22 2007, 02:15 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 21 2007, 1:03 AM) F...   Mar 21 2007, 02:55 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 21 2007, 3:55 PM) Tha...   Mar 22 2007, 11:57 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 22 2007, 9:57 AM) I...   Mar 22 2007, 02:58 PM
Jessica C.   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 10:00 PM) ...   Mar 20 2007, 01:36 PM
happykmd   QUOTEEvolution in the sense I was talking is the c...   Mar 19 2007, 10:14 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(happykmd @ Mar 19 2007, 8:14 AM) Th...   Mar 19 2007, 11:11 AM
happykmd   QUOTEFor one Scientists have not discovered the Bi...   Mar 19 2007, 11:27 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(happykmd @ Mar 19 2007, 9:27 AM) Th...   Mar 19 2007, 11:21 PM
JakeKKing   The Trinity: In Christianity, the doctrine of the ...   Mar 19 2007, 11:33 AM
Luciadus   I hate religion for a few simple reasons. First of...   Mar 19 2007, 11:52 AM
JakeKKing   Well, when people denounce religions and faiths it...   Mar 19 2007, 11:59 AM
Luciadus   Thats the gayest shit I ever heard. j/k But seri...   Mar 19 2007, 12:15 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Luciadus @ Mar 19 2007, 1:15 PM) Th...   Mar 19 2007, 12:32 PM
Luciadus   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 19 2007, 1:32 PM) Y...   Mar 19 2007, 08:43 PM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Luciadus @ Mar 19 2007, 9:43 PM) Th...   Mar 19 2007, 11:07 PM
happykmd   QUOTEThere is more than one type of Evolution. If ...   Mar 20 2007, 09:40 AM
Luciadus   Well Jake, Id like you to explain these little thi...   Mar 21 2007, 12:41 PM
happykmd   ^ Very well said. Couldnt have said it better. QU...   Mar 21 2007, 01:00 PM
Jessica C.   I thought id add that we have to be careful when u...   Mar 22 2007, 01:21 AM
JakeKKing   I believe the world is only six thousand years old...   Mar 22 2007, 09:49 PM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 22 2007, 7:49 PM) I...   Mar 23 2007, 12:07 AM
JakeKKing   QUOTE(Heath21 @ Mar 23 2007, 1:07 AM) Yea...   Mar 23 2007, 11:45 AM
Heath21   QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Mar 23 2007, 9:45 AM) I...   Mar 23 2007, 04:03 PM
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