Transmigration, Also known as: Reincarnation Options

[Simba]

The last previous reincarnation thread has grown a little old, and I'd like to see some fresh input on subject.

Some points I'd like to see hit:

• Whether reincarnation even exists or not
• The who, the what, the how, and the whys of reincarnation
• How the idea automatically requires that we are an eternal soul and not the bodies
• Karmic reaction
• Transmigrating from a human to an animal, and vice versa
• When the reincarnation cycle will end
• Clinical death and children recalling their pasts
• Heaven and Hell and reincarnation
• Reincarnation in Christianity and other religions

Though, perhaps not all at once. And that's probably not all of them either, just the ones that I could think of off the top of my head.

[Kontroll]

The idea is sort of practical in a scientific sense.

First we need to establish that we have a soul.
In order for reincarnation to be possible we need a soul.

So, saying that, I think it is possible. Scientifically when our bodies die, our energy continues because energy doesn't die. So, our energy must be our soul if it continues on.

An interesting fact is that when you have certain molecules and atoms...they can be re aligned in a way where you can pass through a solid object. I'm not quite sure what the principle is called, but I heard from a few people.

Jesus appeared to a couple of his disciples and they said that he didn't enter through the door, but he was flesh. He was in human for still, not as a spirit. How could this have happened? Through passing through the wall by re aligning the molecules in his body.

So, I really don't think that its impossible for reincarnation.

Also, if you believe in demonic possession, that clearly leaves a door open for this to happen.

Haha, I personally don't believe in it because the Bible says that we only get one chance on earth. Then we either go to Heaven or Hell.

But, it's a good topic. Such a simple question can make you think more than you could with something much harder.

Well, since you're Christian, I'm assuming you follow the Bible.

Reincarnation in the Bible:
Jesus asks:

"Who do the people say I am?" They, answering, said "John the Baptist; but some say Elias, and others say that one of the old prophets is risen again."
-- Luke 9:18-19

This is saying that Jesus could have been existent as another person during another time. Possible through reincarnation, of course.
Jesus also directly mentions reincarnation when he tells John the Baptist that he was a reincarnation of Elias:

And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Elias truly shall first come and restore all things. But first I say unto you that Elias has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they wanted. Likewise shall also the son of man suffer of them." Then the disciples understood that he spoke unto them of John the Baptist.
-- Matthew 17:11-13

This would be Jesus saying that John the Baptist was the same person who once appeared as Elias, but this time appearing with a different name and a different body.

Thus, reincarnation was accepted by even Jesus.

How do you know that the first verse doesn't imply confusion? All he's doing is asking them who he thinks he is. They reply with a few different names. That's all. I don't see reincarnation in there what so ever.

The second verse is talking about a man named Elias. Jesus is saying that He will face the same suffering as he did. And the disciples heard the words and associated them with the teachings of John the Baptist.

That's what I get out of that. Nothing about reincarnation. If I'm wrong, fill me in...please. I hate being ignorant.

[Simba]

How do you know that the first verse doesn't imply confusion? All he's doing is asking them who he thinks he is. They reply with a few different names. That's all. I don't see reincarnation in there what so ever.

The second verse is talking about a man named Elias. Jesus is saying that He will face the same suffering as he did. And the disciples heard the words and associated them with the teachings of John the Baptist.

That's what I get out of that. Nothing about reincarnation. If I'm wrong, fill me in...please. I hate being ignorant.

Well, I guess it can be arguable whether John was only similar to Elias or he actually is Elias, but here are some more Bible verses that I've read, that might clear that up a bit.

And if you will receive it, he is Elias that is to come.
-- Matthew 11:14

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
-- Luke 1:17

And since with reincarnation, an individual is an eternal spirit/soul, John being the spirit known as Elias is possible.

[Kontroll]

Well, I guess it can be arguable whether John was only similar to Elias or he actually is Elias, but here are some more Bible verses that I've read, that might clear that up a bit.

And if you will receive it, he is Elias that is to come.
-- Matthew 11:14

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
-- Luke 1:17

And since with reincarnation, an individual is an eternal spirit/soul, John being the spirit known as Elias is possible.

Indeed.

Oh, I just found an interesting article. Enjoy.

A scientific rebuttal to reincarnation

The concept of reincarnation is widely accepted among non-Christians, probably because it appeals to many who would like to believe that they would be given a second chance in case they failed to make the grade in this life. Christianity disputes reincarnation because it is unnecessary, since anybody can "make the grade" simply through an act of their own will through faith in Jesus Christ. The scientific rebuttal to reincarnation is quite simple. Because of the population explosion, more people are currently living on the earth than have ever lived on the earth for the entire history of humankind. In other words, over half of the people who have ever lived on earth have never died even once! There simply are not enough dead souls to go around for a second time. This does not absolutely eliminate reincarnation, but it does severely restrict its extent, especially for those who have claimed to have lived several times before. However, some people believe that souls can be reincarnated into or from animals. In that case, it is possible that many people have been frogs before they became princes.

Bible against Reincarnation
- - -
And in as much as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, (Hebrews 9:27)

So, what I have to say to you is that before reading the verse and submitting as possible evidence...look at it closer. The Bible is filled with things that aren't always so obvious. You have to look at the original translations alot of the times to understand the actual meaning of what that verse is saying. Also, another thing is to not take it out of context. This verse might not be, but it would be a good idea to bring in other verses before or after if they tie in with that specific one.

Here's the site I got this from. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/reincarnation.html