Evangelism |
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Evangelism |
May 30 2006, 07:59 PM
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Lauren loves YOU. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,357 Joined: Jul 2004 Member No: 32,793 |
A good friend of mine and I recently got into a heated debate about evangelism. We're both Christians, but we have very different ideas about evangelism. When my friend started getting really involved in church a few years ago, he also became a rampant evangelist. He believes that by bringing more people into the church he is not only saving them from eternal damnation, but also doing his duty as a Christian. He has often quoted Charles Spurgeon, saying "Every Christian is either a missionary or an imposter," essentially stating that you can't truly be Christian without evangelizing non believers.
I, however, don't like the idea of evangelism at all. Although I'm a devout Catholic, I dislike the idea of evangelism because I don't believe that anybody, myself included, has the right to force his or her beliefs on someone else. I think that everybody has a right to be whatever the religion they choose. Perhaps it's because I have a different idea about God than other people. I don't think that God sends honestly good people to Hell just because they don't believe in him. There are such things as Christian people who are hypocritical, paying lip service to God at church on Sundays, and still go about causing harm to other people. In my opinion, these people are less deserving of heaven than the good-hearted people whose only "fault" is that they don't believe in God. I think that my duty as a Christian is to be a good person and have a positive impact on the world, which doesn't necessarily mean that I HAVE to be an evangelist. I'd just like to know what everyone else's opinion is on this, not merely from a Christian standpoint, but from another religion's or atheist's perspective as well. Do you approve of evangelism? Are you an evangelist? Do you think that evangelism is a necessary requirement for all good Christians? |
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Dec 11 2006, 06:55 PM
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#2
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 60 Joined: Nov 2006 Member No: 481,822 |
QUOTE If you can hold off responding to me until the next time I post in here, I'd appreciate it. I'm not done with my thoughts on your latest response yet, but I am pressed to study for three impending finals this week. I always like to be thorough with debates. Until then, have a good week. I look forward to your additional thoughts, Spirited Away. I hope you do well on your finals... *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Post edited: 12/28/06 (after Spirited Away's continuation) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* QUOTE Is it really easy to not listen to conscience? If my conscience exists to tell me the right things, and I know they are right, why would it be hard to listen? Because of weakness. What else? Weakness that comes from our imperfection. To overcome imperfection, to be perfect? No one can be perfect except God. How many times have you heard someone say that they believe they're going to make it Heaven because they "did the best they could" ? Your understanding of "weakness" here is the exact reason that people don't do the "best they could" because they could ALWAYS have done a little better. They could always have turned away from something their conscience told them to. Instead, they reject their conscience by giving an excuse that they're weak and that they're not perfect. They succumb to that which their conscience tells them to reject. You're right that there none perfect except God. But unless you understand the due judgement coming to each person who's broken His Commandments, then you cannot understand His boundless Mercy and Grace in paying the fine for those transgressions that we've all committed. The only Book to show itself to be archeologically, historically, and prophetically accurate gives details about the One, True God and His requirement for perfection. If anyone thinks that the good works they perform are "good enough" to warrant His approval, then they're looking to self-righteousness and not His righteousness. QUOTE Actually, I did regret doing the right thing once. My conscience agreed with me at the time, that I should tell the truth about my Aunts' feud to my niece so that she can be prepared to face their rivalry. Keeping quiet when she asked would have been 1) lying, 2) putting her in a situation where she doesn't know where she stands, and 3) confusing the shit out of her. Now she's pulled into this crazy game of tug-o-war, and what's worse, she's taking sides. I thought that was the right thing at the time, but I guess what's "right", even by our conscience standards, is questionable at times. "Right" and "conscience", is rather subjective, and can be fickles things. That is unfortunate that it didn't work out the way you wanted. Even though the outcome wasn't as you'd have liked, though, would you have appreciated someone preparing you for a confrontation that they knew was coming and you didn't ? You showed that you cared for someone. QUOTE I actually read this from a Harvard Case Study about an Ophthalmologist in India who devoted his life to helping as many blind people in India as he can. I did not have time to go back and read the title nor look for the author as it was a case study we had to read before answering a series of service related questions for my Service Operations final. The Ophthalmologist said "You do not have to be religious to serve God, you can serve humanity and serve God." He is a devoted Christian who believes that God gave him the purpose and the means to help people, yet he can say that we do not need to be religious to be useful to God. He summed up my beliefs in one sentence, that man. Interesting. I hadn't heard about this guy. The word "religious", though, is so relative. What does it mean to you ? We can all check the dictionary for what Mr. Webster thinks, but I would agree with this guy ("You do not have to be religious to serve God...") since I don't see myself as religious based on my definition based on how I've seen the word used. To me, religion is defined by the outward tradition made by man in order for him to make himself pleasing to God. I don't believe there's anything I can do to make myself pleasing to God. I've broken His Commandments and am a transgressor of His Laws. The only way I'm pleasing to Him is because of the fact that He did something to allow me to approach Him. "[Y]ou can serve humanity and serve God." What good would it do for me to build Habitat for Humanity homes during every work day and at night burn down the homes of neighboring communities so that there's more room for Habitat homes ? Of course, it wouldn't do any good. My evil deeds would immediately put a black spot on my "good deeds". In the same way, doing nice things for others is great for those it helps, but it means nothing to God as I continue to break His Commandments which He gave along with the knowledge not to break them. QUOTE The love letters may be left unopened. True unconditional love for a person need not to be returned in kind. If I am a mother and my children hates me for whatever reason and I love them even in their hate and with their flaws, wouldn't you call that unconditional love? Yes, it would be nice if they reciprocate my feelings, but my love for them shouldn't change if I can say I love them unconditionally. If there are conditions to by loved by Him, then who is the one not being fair here? First, who ever said that God gave unconditional love ? Even when He gave the Commandments to Moses, there were conditions. He specifically said that IF you keep these Commandments, you'll be blessed. He also said that if you do not keep them, you'll receive His judgment. Unconditional love is a wonderful and beautiful concept, but it doesn't apply to a Holy and Righteous God. Second, any parent who wants to bless their child with gifts would find themselves creating a monster if they continually give those gifts without expecting the child to be pleasing to them. How can a parent expect the child to come back to a right relationship if wrong behavior supplies the child's desires ? There's no incentive for the child to end that which is displeasing the parent. The logical conclusion is that the gifts must stop until the child turns away from that which is not pleasing to the parent. Please don't forget that the parent's job is to protect and raise the child. When I say that the child must do that which pleases the parent, I mean that the fundamental and foundational desire of the parent is to do what's best for the child. I tell my children not to run in a parking lot NOT because I don't want them to enjoy the gift of being able to run, jump, and play. I tell them not to run in the parking lot because I know there's danger. In the same way, God's Commandments tell us not to do things that He knows are hurtful and dangerous. Remember, also, that the parent that has the child that "hates them for whatever reason" has got to be broken-hearted that they don't have a loving relationship with their child. That parent's greatest desire is to bless their child with awesome gifts, but (again) how can disobedience be rewarded ?? This is more like how God looks to those who have rejected His Son and do not repent of the transgressions they've committed. |
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yummy_delight Evangelism May 30 2006, 07:59 PM
kryogenix QUOTEdon't think that God sends honestly good ... May 31 2006, 02:37 PM
sadolakced acid i would think, in all logic, they would be more un... Jun 1 2006, 11:03 PM
ermfermoo They bother me. A lot.
Why, you ask? Because they... Jun 5 2006, 04:16 PM
×__Fcuk. Umm..no offence to anyone here, but I think Evange... Jun 7 2006, 12:59 PM
ermfermoo QUOTE(×__Fcuk. @ Jun 7 2006, 1:59 PM) My ... Jun 7 2006, 10:07 PM
×__Fcuk. QUOTE(ermfermoo @ Jun 7 2006, 10:07 PM) I... Jun 7 2006, 11:56 PM
L!ckitySplit dont listen to franki ariel, she's INSANE.
yo... Jun 7 2006, 10:14 PM
marzipan QUOTE(yummy_delight @ May 30 2006, 7:59 P... Jun 7 2006, 10:14 PM
n00b well I don't think you should be forced into a... Jun 7 2006, 10:18 PM
StanleyThePanda Forcing your religion on them isnt cool, no.
But I... Jun 7 2006, 10:23 PM
fifthing I fully agree with your stance on the matter. I pr... Jun 7 2006, 11:56 PM
Shulace I recently took a class on apologetics, learning h... Jun 8 2006, 12:15 AM
×__Fcuk. ^ Bravo. =) Jun 8 2006, 12:16 AM
sadolakced acid only one person can make me do that, and he is god... Jun 8 2006, 04:29 AM
happykmd Ahh I really dont like Evangelists. But ironically... Jul 29 2006, 12:14 AM
rorhinna I would like to just define something. I have been... Aug 10 2006, 12:34 AM
zebzie Its called faith WITH works. If you believe in God... Aug 10 2006, 01:38 AM
ktsou11 As Christians, we're called upon by God's ... Aug 11 2006, 07:33 PM
JakeKKing QUOTE(yummy_delight @ May 30 2006, 7:59 P... Aug 13 2006, 05:27 PM
SilverNoOne Evangelism is being just as open about talking abo... Aug 16 2006, 10:04 PM
chasingvictory well to me Evangelism isn't, "forcing his... Aug 17 2006, 01:00 PM
thanhmai I believe that people should have the free will to... Aug 18 2006, 11:19 AM
sadolakced acid hello my name is justin and i'd like to ... Aug 19 2006, 05:51 PM
thanhmai QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Aug 19 2006, 3:51... Aug 20 2006, 01:21 AM
Angelina Taylor QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Aug 19 2006, 6:51... Aug 20 2006, 04:05 PM
SilverNoOne QUOTE(Angelina Taylor @ Aug 20 2006, 4:05... Aug 20 2006, 08:09 PM
Brittany Rachelle once these people came to my friends door and scar... Aug 20 2006, 01:32 AM
ScottD Is there anyone listed here that would have to sto... Nov 22 2006, 08:19 AM
happykmd ^ Nice post. But quoting scriptures doesnt mean so... Nov 27 2006, 05:24 PM
sadolakced acid The worst kind of people are those who are falsely... Nov 28 2006, 01:06 AM
ScottD QUOTENice post. But quoting scriptures doesnt mean... Nov 28 2006, 02:16 PM
happykmd QUOTEI'm glad you're honest enough to reco... Dec 4 2006, 08:06 PM
icy_wonderland QUOTE(ScottD @ Nov 29 2006, 3:16 AM) I na... Dec 5 2006, 07:45 AM
sadolakced acid now i have a question for you. how do you know, t... Nov 29 2006, 02:25 AM
splitnightsky don't judge me for judging you.
cuz then we g... Nov 29 2006, 07:44 AM
ScottD QUOTEnow i have a question for you. how do you kno... Nov 29 2006, 10:23 AM
splitnightsky to answer you without quoting (geez that was long)... Nov 29 2006, 02:27 PM
ScottD Yeah, sorry. I get verbose. I hope you do get th... Nov 29 2006, 03:33 PM
splitnightsky I really don't feel like discussing this anymo... Nov 29 2006, 05:16 PM
ScottD For anyone else reading this thead, please don... Dec 1 2006, 03:39 PM
sadolakced acid I'm sorry, but i don't trust the bible. I... Dec 2 2006, 02:36 AM
Spirited Away Have you turn to deism, Justin? Dec 2 2006, 10:28 AM
sadolakced acid no, but i'm arguing one's point of view fo... Dec 3 2006, 01:52 PM
insomniac scottd, are you by chance a messianic jew? your ic... Dec 3 2006, 10:57 PM
ScottD sadolakced acid:
If you want to follow God, but do... Dec 4 2006, 08:57 AM
insomniac QUOTEWhen you say that you sat through all the lec... Dec 4 2006, 06:30 PM
happykmd ^ Yeah. How can you believe in Christ, and not be ... Dec 4 2006, 07:49 PM
ScottD QUOTEBut the faith itself, there is one God, and h... Dec 5 2006, 07:30 AM
happykmd QUOTEI very much appreciate you both bringing out ... Dec 5 2006, 07:49 PM
ScottD Good morning, icy_wonderland.
If you believe it... Dec 5 2006, 08:00 AM
icy_wonderland I don't have to be Christian to care about oth... Dec 5 2006, 08:05 AM
ScottD Your point is very well made. In no way would I e... Dec 5 2006, 08:53 AM
Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 5 2006, 7:00 AM) Since... Dec 5 2006, 06:22 PM
happykmd QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Dec 5 2006, 6:22... Dec 5 2006, 07:18 PM
ScottD I can only assume that since you mention "the... Dec 5 2006, 07:30 PM
Acid Bath Slayer [quote name='ScottD' date='Dec 5 2006,... Dec 5 2006, 08:44 PM
Angelina Taylor QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 5 2006, 7:30 PM) As fo... Dec 23 2006, 11:39 AM
ScottD QUOTEOk, but if you knew in advance that someone w... Dec 5 2006, 08:47 PM
Spirited Away This is relevant to the original discussion, how o... Dec 5 2006, 11:19 PM
ScottD Acid Bath Slayer
How many grains of sand make up a... Dec 6 2006, 07:15 AM
Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 6 2006, 6:15 AM) Acid ... Dec 6 2006, 06:21 PM
happykmd QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 6 2006, 7:15 AM) Acid ... Dec 6 2006, 07:50 PM
Spirited Away QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 6 2006, 6:15 AM) Spiri... Dec 6 2006, 08:40 PM
happykmd QUOTEIf God sees me as badly as you have said (bla... Dec 6 2006, 08:48 PM
ScottD Acid Bath Slayer, you had mentioned earlier that t... Dec 7 2006, 08:25 AM
Spirited Away QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 7 2006, 7:25 AM) But, ... Dec 7 2006, 04:53 PM
Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 7 2006, 7:25 AM) Acid ... Dec 12 2006, 12:22 AM
ScottD QUOTENote that reasons do not excuse, they simply ... Dec 8 2006, 08:40 AM
insomniac ahh, i missed a page. i'll try to catch up as ... Dec 8 2006, 07:45 PM
ScottD Good morning, insomniac.
In no way did I mean to ... Dec 9 2006, 08:36 AM
Spirited Away Yes! Haha, they will get burned and they will ... Dec 9 2006, 05:12 PM
happykmd QUOTEIf you can hold off responding to me until th... Dec 11 2006, 07:01 PM
Spirited Away I edited my post to keep it all in one place for e... Dec 19 2006, 01:05 AM
happykmd ^ Eeeeep. All but two kids out of 23 failed the En... Dec 20 2006, 09:54 AM
happykmd ^ I agree. People try to throw bible verses and ot... Dec 26 2006, 12:32 AM
ScottD Spirited Away,
I hope I haven't broken any r... Dec 28 2006, 10:10 AM
ScottD Angelina Taylor,
As strongly as you clearly do no... Dec 28 2006, 12:39 PM
Angelina Taylor QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 28 2006, 12:39 PM) Ang... Dec 28 2006, 07:46 PM
ScottD QUOTESeriously? You're actually serious?
With... Dec 29 2006, 03:47 PM
ursedonah QUOTE(ScottD @ Dec 29 2006, 3:47 PM) If w... Dec 29 2006, 05:02 PM
Angelina Taylor [quote name='ScottD' date='Dec 29 2006... Dec 29 2006, 05:16 PM
Obscure Enigma I think evangelism is fine, in a sence that you in... Dec 30 2006, 09:55 AM
ScottD I apologize for my long response here. ursedonah ... Jan 3 2007, 10:10 AM
Angelina Taylor QUOTE(ScottD @ Jan 3 2007, 10:10 AM) Isai... Jan 3 2007, 01:50 PM
ursedonah QUOTE(ScottD @ Jan 3 2007, 10:10 AM) I ap... Jan 3 2007, 05:37 PM
ScottD Quick question on replying: Are there a limited n... Jan 10 2007, 01:16 PM
Angelina Taylor I will just say one thing and I'll rest my cas... Jan 10 2007, 02:56 PM
I Shot JFK QUOTEConsider a little boy who is looking at a hea... Jan 10 2007, 06:34 PM
sadolakced acid ScottD, i don't have time to read through all ... Jan 10 2007, 08:26 PM
ScottD QUOTEFrom Angelina Taylor:
I will just say one thi... Jan 11 2007, 07:06 AM
Angelina Taylor Intelligent Design vs. Evolution? HAHAHAHA, okay. ... Jan 11 2007, 07:27 AM
sadolakced acid Well, do you agree that an athiest such as myself ... Jan 12 2007, 11:21 PM
ScottD QUOTEFrom Angelina Taylor:
Please, don't pray ... Jan 17 2007, 07:18 AM
sadolakced acid well, i'll tell you what i believe.
i believe... Jan 18 2007, 02:12 AM
silly ol' man ^ Respect? Yeah, you're a model of respect -- ... Jan 18 2007, 02:21 AM
sadolakced acid of course, and if you'd paid a shit of attenti... Jan 18 2007, 02:39 AM
silly ol' man QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jan 18 2007, 1:39... Jan 18 2007, 06:51 PM
Heath21 QUOTE(yummy_delight @ May 30 2006, 4:59 P... Jan 18 2007, 04:53 PM![]() ![]() |