Evangelism Options

[yummy_delight]

A good friend of mine and I recently got into a heated debate about evangelism. We're both Christians, but we have very different ideas about evangelism. When my friend started getting really involved in church a few years ago, he also became a rampant evangelist. He believes that by bringing more people into the church he is not only saving them from eternal damnation, but also doing his duty as a Christian. He has often quoted Charles Spurgeon, saying "Every Christian is either a missionary or an imposter," essentially stating that you can't truly be Christian without evangelizing non believers.

I, however, don't like the idea of evangelism at all. Although I'm a devout Catholic, I dislike the idea of evangelism because I don't believe that anybody, myself included, has the right to force his or her beliefs on someone else. I think that everybody has a right to be whatever the religion they choose. Perhaps it's because I have a different idea about God than other people. I don't think that God sends honestly good people to Hell just because they don't believe in him. There are such things as Christian people who are hypocritical, paying lip service to God at church on Sundays, and still go about causing harm to other people. In my opinion, these people are less deserving of heaven than the good-hearted people whose only "fault" is that they don't believe in God. I think that my duty as a Christian is to be a good person and have a positive impact on the world, which doesn't necessarily mean that I HAVE to be an evangelist.

I'd just like to know what everyone else's opinion is on this, not merely from a Christian standpoint, but from another religion's or atheist's perspective as well. Do you approve of evangelism? Are you an evangelist? Do you think that evangelism is a necessary requirement for all good Christians?

[sdingfelder]

But the faith itself, there is one God, and he is holy, and he saved us from Egypt....etc... well, in my opinion, you can't be messianic and still hold that statement true.

insomniac & happykmd
I very much appreciate you both bringing out good points in kindness. I've seen where differences of thought and theology have brought people to harsh words and I'm glad y'all are willing to make valid points in a kind way.

There is still only one God in Messianic Judaism. If you're truly interested in looking into this further, please don't hesitate to let me know. If you honestly seek the Hebrew Scriptures, you'll see that He shows throughout Tanach that He is One, but as each one of us is body, mind and soul we were made in His image.

As a Jewish person, Deuteronomy 6:4 should sound familiar. It's called the "Shema Y'israel". I don't know, insomniac, if you're familiar with it. "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one". Please study the word "one" in this verse. It is the Hebrew word "echad" which is also used in Genesis 2:24. Ask yourself how "echad" can possibly mean "one and only one".

I've specifically tried to not come off as someone who only uses Bible verses to back up what he says. The Bible says that He is not a God of confusion -- there's logic to His Truth. So, in such a forum as this I simply use things that are easily grasped and which can be used as examples of real-life experiences.

Uhh. Dude. Believing and Christ and his word MEANS YOUR A CHRISTIAN. What separates what you believe from the Christian faith?

First, remember that my comment was that "I don't believe in Christianity" -- the religion. The Christian religion is wrought with factions -- Baptists, Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc. Each one of these factions stresses one thing over another as opposed to stressing what the Bible teaches ONLY AS MUCH AS the Bible teaches it. These are man's divisions. Man will often look to something that sounds good and stress that. What separates me from believing in the relgion is that I look to the Bible and not to man. I look to Messiah as my teacher. Read Psalm 118:8 and Proverbs 3:5. I can't put my trust in man because like all men, that man's going to be wrong. Just like I'm going to be wrong.

Whats wrong with believing with your heart? Do you believe in Jesus with only your mind?

The Bible teaches that the heart cannot be trusted. Read Jeremiah 17:9 to see why no one should trust their heart as their guide. God gave us an intellect in order to objectively study His Word. I use my mind to study His Word, but even moreso than my wife "has my heart", I love God with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength (the First Commandment).

I see what your saying, but would a mother cause harm to her child for crying? Why would God condemn his "children" to hell?

A bad mother would, yes. But if you wanted to see if someone truly loved you, would you force them to follow you ? Or, rather, would you allow them enough breathing room to see if they love you enough to seek you out and stay by your side ?

As for God condemning His "children": Please understand that the Bible never says that everyone is the "child" of God. It actually says the opposite. Please read Colossians 1:21 and John 3:18.

If someone has done wrong, and feels sorry for what they did, isnt that the same as asking for forgiveness?

If you were married and your spouse cheated on you, would an "I'm sorry" look on their face be enough ? Would actually saying "I'm sorry" be enough ? How about a "Please forgive me" right before it happens again ? Of course not ! There has to be what's called repentance -- a hatred for the wrong that's been done and a desire to do only that which is right.

God's no different. He wants a person who loves Him more than their sin. Simply feeling sorry and doing it again means nothing to man -- why should it mean something to the Creator of the Universe ?? Please read Psalm 34:8.

Please don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that you need to go to a man to ask for forgiveness of God. You can ask forgiveness of God in your own private location -- room, mind, heart, where ever.

Are you kidding me? You keep throwing the Commandments and other Bible nonsense out - with no proof to completely back up the Bible at all. Your twisting things, saying that I've broken the second Commandment and done wrong. What are you expecting me to do? Cave in and say you're right? Um no thanks.

And how the heck is what I believe Evil?

I clearly need to ask for your forgiveness for a poor choice of words. Please do forgive me. One example of my poor choice of words is that you read my statement as what you believe is evil. I said "Since He loves righteousness, He must hate evil." I was trying to make a statement that God cannot be ALL love. If He were, He would contradict Himself and sound like some sort of multiple personality disorder being. He is not. The Bible teaches that He is unchanging. He cannot love and one thing AND love the opposite of that thing.

As for the Commandments, please see Exodus 20 (specifically Exodus 20:4 for the Second Commandment). As for proof to completely back up the Bible, that would be a good conversation to have if you're really interested.

As for you caving in to say I'm right, I don't blame you for rejecting that. I've obviously offended you in my words and I'm sorry for that. I hope my mistake won't stop you from looking into God's Word to find the Truth.

You dont understand. I dont believe Jesus is the son of God, and died for our sins. I believe that he may have been a prophet, who did claim to be "the son of God". Aren't we all God's children?

I'm sorry to hear that. As I mentioned before, I appreciate your honesty.

I agree that He did claim to be the Son of God. If you really believe He made that claim and you don't believe He is who He says He is, please realize that you're calling Him a liar. By Biblical definition, if a prophet lies, he is a false prophet and should not be followed. The jesus you know would have died in vain. His lie would have led countless numbers of people to their deaths believing in a lie. Consider the apostles. Secular, historical documentation shows that all but John died horrific and painful deaths. What you're saying is that they died trying to promote a lie.

Bottom line is that there's never been anyone who's ever come close to satisfying even 3 Messianic prophesies from the Old Covenant. Jesus Christ satisfied over 300.

We talked about being God's "children" above.

(Going by what you are saying) If nothing is hidden from God, then that means that he knows that most people are dying and going to Hell. Wouldnt he do something about it? If he loves us so much, like you claim, he would.

Answer that one for me.

Yes, He knows this and He has done something about it:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

[kimmytree]

I very much appreciate you both bringing out good points in kindness. I've seen where differences of thought and theology have brought people to harsh words and I'm glad y'all are willing to make valid points in a kind way.

Same to you. I appreciate you being kind about what you're saying, even if I dont agree.

There is still only one God in Messianic Judaism. If you're truly interested in looking into this further, please don't hesitate to let me know. If you honestly seek the Hebrew Scriptures, you'll see that He shows throughout Tanach that He is One, but as each one of us is body, mind and soul we were made in His image.

As a Jewish person, Deuteronomy 6:4 should sound familiar. It's called the "Shema Y'israel". I don't know, insomniac, if you're familiar with it. "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one". Please study the word "one" in this verse. It is the Hebrew word "echad" which is also used in Genesis 2:24. Ask yourself how "echad" can possibly mean "one and only one".

I've specifically tried to not come off as someone who only uses Bible verses to back up what he says. The Bible says that He is not a God of confusion -- there's logic to His Truth. So, in such a forum as this I simply use things that are easily grasped and which can be used as examples of real-life experiences.


First, remember that my comment was that "I don't believe in Christianity" -- the religion. The Christian religion is wrought with factions -- Baptists, Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc. Each one of these factions stresses one thing over another as opposed to stressing what the Bible teaches ONLY AS MUCH AS the Bible teaches it. These are man's divisions. Man will often look to something that sounds good and stress that. What separates me from believing in the relgion is that I look to the Bible and not to man. I look to Messiah as my teacher. Read Psalm 118:8 and Proverbs 3:5. I can't put my trust in man because like all men, that man's going to be wrong. Just like I'm going to be wrong.

Yeah - there are numerous sects of the Protestant faith. If you know Christ as your Savior, believe in the New Testament, and Evangelism, you are a Christian. You're still Jewish, but you're a Christian. If you're into being taught about what the Bible actually says, instead of someone of a certain Protestant sect twisting things, thats basically Non-Denominational.

A bad mother would, yes. But if you wanted to see if someone truly loved you, would you force them to follow you ? Or, rather, would you allow them enough breathing room to see if they love you enough to seek you out and stay by your side ?

As for God condemning His "children": Please understand that the Bible never says that everyone is the "child" of God. It actually says the opposite. Please read Colossians 1:21 and John 3:18.

Ok, but if you knew in advance that someone was going to get by a car, wouldnt you tell them? Wouldnt you stop them from being in that situation? Christians claim that God / Jesus knows everything. He knows what we're going to order for lunch tomorrow, who we're going to marry, all the details of our life. So doesnt he know if we're going to accept him or not? Wouldnt he make sure that every person accepted him? Sounds to me like its predetermined then.

Please don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that you need to go to a man to ask for forgiveness of God. You can ask forgiveness of God in your own private location -- room, mind, heart, where ever.

Then how is that any different that what I said?

I clearly need to ask for your forgiveness for a poor choice of words. Please do forgive me. One example of my poor choice of words is that you read my statement as what you believe is evil. I said "Since He loves righteousness, He must hate evil." I was trying to make a statement that God cannot be ALL love. If He were, He would contradict Himself and sound like some sort of multiple personality disorder being. He is not. The Bible teaches that He is unchanging. He cannot love and one thing AND love the opposite of that thing.

Thank you. Hopefully I dont sound rude either. I just felt as if you were attacking me. Why cant he? That doesnt make sense. Just because he isnt "all love", doesnt mean he cant love. Once again, please stop throwing out things "the Bible teaches". You're just making things worse - its not going to make me or anyone else automatically agree with you, just because the Bible says something. Yeah, all that is in the Bible, but just because something's in a book doesnt make it true.

As for the Commandments, please see Exodus 20 (specifically Exodus 20:4 for the Second Commandment). As for proof to completely back up the Bible, that would be a good conversation to have if you're really interested.

Once again, see above.

I agree that He did claim to be the Son of God. If you really believe He made that claim and you don't believe He is who He says He is, please realize that you're calling Him a liar. By Biblical definition, if a prophet lies, he is a false prophet and should not be followed. The jesus you know would have died in vain. His lie would have led countless numbers of people to their deaths believing in a lie. Consider the apostles. Secular, historical documentation shows that all but John died horrific and painful deaths. What you're saying is that they died trying to promote a lie.

Bottom line is that there's never been anyone who's ever come close to satisfying even 3 Messianic prophesies from the Old Covenant. Jesus Christ satisfied over 300.

We talked about being God's "children" above.

Not necesarrily. Many parts of the New Testament were written HUNDREDS of years after his death. Just like anything else, after the story being retold over and over again over the generations, things change. You really dont believe that God really spoke to the authors? If he did, why hasnt he spoken to anyone else since?

He claimed to be the Son of God. According to parts of the Old Testament, as believers in God we are all his children. (I'll edit this later with the reference). So in a sense, he is a son of God just like we are all his sons / daughters. He created us, making him in a sense our Father.

Why would his lie necessarily led to other's deaths? Chances are, when the NT was written hundreds of years later, the story was twisted. I think he claimed to be the son of God just like we are his children, and he preached / taught the Old Testament, and died for believing in it.

I can only assume that since you mention "the kids", that you're not one. Interesting that the most foul language has come from an adult instead of a kid. For example, insomniac & happykmd (I'm not sure if they're "kids" or not, though) showed much more maturity in their response. You should be proud of yourself.

I agree with you on that one. According to his/her profile, they're only 18. I'm 17, so I dont see how that makes him any more of an adult that myself.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you? A college student?