bible/religion as fact Options

[*Statues/Shadows*]

In nearly every debate, people always seem to insist on using "I believe this because of my religion" or "it's in the bible."

However, are these actual valid foundations for debate?

[*kryogenix*]

Tamacracker, you are walking on thin ice for you complete and absolute disrespect. It is possible to challenge religious ideas without being offensive. Throughout the topics I have debated with you, I noticed a pattern with you. You will start attacking a belief, but when someone gives a defense, you refuse to read it and write it off as propaganda. Hypocrite, much? When I posted corrections to what you say I believe (why are you telling me what I believe again? I think I understand my religion well, thank you very much), you twist what I say into ad hominem. And you continue to ignore what I say.

Be respectful, be open minded and be responsive. That's all I ask of you.

Here is my rebuttal.

God has no partners... you don't need to ask for saints to help you pray to God, that's just laughable. So wait you're tellin me that Catholics are actually spiritually weak, right? Since they cannot make a strong spiritual bond with God, even when they pray? They need the help of saints in order to pray? Well that sucks, in my opinion.

Hooray for ad hominem. Do you believe your prayer is worth more than the prayer of one who gave their life for God? Do you feel you are closer to God than a Saint? Me, I am but a humble servant and sinner so if I can get the help of a Saint or Mary, I'll gladly take it.

God has no partners yes, but God has his workers. What are angels to you? From my study of Islam, angels play an important role.

In my case, I pray 5 times... that alone covers any little sin I commit through out the day. I don't ask for saints or angels or prophets to help me make a connection with God in order to have my prayers heard.

Do you pray only to cover sin? Do you pray only when you want something? I'm not here to get into a piousness contest, so I stress again that I am but a humble servant of God.

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

-Matthew 6:5

Jesus is not God, not in my religion. He's the Messiah, the savior of the human race. Doesn't mean we have to pray to Jesus nor call him Lord. In my religion, what saves you is:
Believing in God, knowin God has no partner, believing that Prophet Muhammad is his slave and his prophet, and that Jesus the son of virgin Mary is God's slave/prophet and also the Messiah. Believe that there's heaven and hell, and live by the Laws of God, meaning no commiting of sins.

Humility is why I go to confession.

Jesus cannot change the Laws of God, only God can change those Laws. The New Testament was modified by the Romans. In fact Jesus was never crucified, there's no proof of it. Jesus never died and raised again. That's what the Egyptians claimed with their Gods... The Roman version of Jesus or shall I say the new/modern age Christians believe the same exact stories of the Egyptian Gods. Don't believe that? Look up the relevance in Osiris and Jesus.

Jesus is God so there goes that. Now, I asked in another thread. How can Jesus be considered such a great man if he claimed to be God?

Proof of Jesus getting crucified? Pliny’s letter to Trajan? The Muslims under Saladin stealing the Cross? Shroud of Turin?

Showing similarities between other religions, ok what's your point? And if you want to point the finger about copying, take a look at Islam as well. Let's just say Muslims weren't the first to worship at Kaaba.

Romans believed in the Egyptian Gods as well... how can you sit here and honestly believe that the Romans who were disgusting to begin with, no where near the men or nation of God
could have not touched the facts of Christianity. The Romans destroyed the image of Jesus and destroyed his message, then recreated him for their personal agenda in Imperialism... the truth hurts, some people can't handle the truth so they purposely stay ignorant and laugh at what God has revealed to them.

You have nothing to back up this claim. It wouldn't make sense anyway, the Bible makes Rome look bad.

Why do you think Christianity is so popular to begin with? Christianity would have not been soo popular if they didn't divide and conquer. Murdering, raping, stealing, and force converting was part of the Roman and Spaniard agenda in order to control the people with their governance. Wait you do know that there was a time where Christians were killin off Christians right? Where a blasephemous "so-called" sect of Christianity could not let the truth be told, and they would do anything to destroy the truth. They succeeded in the most part, but guess what? There's actually a part of the world that holds the truth of Christianity... that's in Jordan. Those Christians there do not have the same Western Civilzation's version of the NT... they have authentic version

Forced conversions aren't nice. But guess what. Christianity was very small after Jesus' death. They were persecuted by the Romans and were driven underground until Constantine finally accepted Christianity.

And again, if you want to point the finger, maybe you should take a closer look at Islam. Christianity became a major religion with only the spilling of Jesus' blood. Islam, on the otherhand, took many victims in its early years and its eventual spread througout the Middle East.

You should know that I myself have already studied the OT and the NT, in fact I also read the Torah. It is not permissible to confess your sins to another human being or an object. In the NT, the best arguement Christians use is that the followers of Jesus would confess to him and the other followers lol... that's a lie but then again modern day Christians would believe anything

Sigh. I said read a Catechism, not the New Testament and Old Testament. The Catechism is a summary of what Catholics believe, that is why I told you to look at it, because you have some mistaken views of what Catholics believe. And nice ad hominem you got there.

Why would I ever respect the Catholic religion? Read the OT, find the answer there. Stop using Jesus and the saints and whatever else is in the NT to argue the point. It doesn't hold a drop of water.

I assume you don't represent Islam then. Because my understanding from what I learned in school throughout the years is that Muslims are taught to be respectful of Judaism and Christianity and that those two religions are treated with honor as commanded by the Koran. And the Muslims I've met are very respectful. Though, recently I've found out some more ugly things like dhimmis and Dar al Harb and Dar al Islam.

No human can truely forgive a sin, no human has that authority. You can forgive someone for hurting you, or stealing from you, but you cannot forgive their "SIN" Sin that their spirit has commited, how can a human forgive a spirit? They can't... they can't make that connection, only God can.

I agree, only God can pardon sin. What's the problem here?

I smell Egyptian ritual here... sorry, doesn't hold water either.

I smell lack of reading/undestanding, closed mindedness and pretentiousness here.

Again, I repeat, you're being incredibly disprespectful. Attacking my beliefs is fine in the debate. Attacking me or people who share my beliefs is not OK. Also, telling me what I believe is not OK.