ABORTION VERSION TWO |
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ABORTION VERSION TWO |
Jul 15 2006, 10:44 PM
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#1
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dripping destruction Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 7,282 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 21,929 |
yea, someone head to the other one and close it.
i'm going to lay down a few ground rules here. 1- i don't care what your stance is, and no one else does either 2- use logic and facts to try to convince us to believe something. it's called a debate not a disorganized rumble. 3- be civil. a lot of you seem to have problems with this. 4- no links, unless neccisary. no quoting outside sources over a paragraph. USE YOUR OWN WORDS. if i don't care what you think about it, why would i care what someone else thinks? and really. stop using other people's arguements. alright. and you know, keeping your posts short isn't a bad thing either. so, the set up: should abortion be made illegal in the united states |
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Jul 18 2006, 01:03 AM
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#2
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Pokeball, GO! Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,832 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 433,009 |
obvious to whom? it must be scientifically proven. people on antidepressants are more likely to commit suicide. does this mean antidepressants don't work? unless a scientific study is done, you cannot draw these assumptions. Did you even read the article? Please define what you think a scientific study is. That was a scientific study, not assumptions. If people on antidepressants are more likely to commit suicide, there's obviously something wrong with the medication, wouldn't you say? And I don't understand where you're going with that statement anyway. It has nothing to do with anything I or that article have stated. Please explain. So you'd rather keep the child, even if you couldn't afford it? Even if you knew it would have a miserable life? A woman has the right to have power over her own body, don't you think? And if you do have a child, your education will be pretty much over. Because you'd have to quit school to take care of the baby. There are people who care about education. And let's face it, many people have sex before they're ready for a child. It's not a perfect world, as you said.. I can't see into the future. How can I, or anyone know the child would have a miserable life? It's impossible. There are many many many people who have had single teenage mothers and have risen above and lead wonderful lives. Even a lot of athletes and celebrities. It gave them a reason to want to overcome and per sue their dreams. It's a natural human instinct to want to thrive and get better and better. Yes, I do think woman has the right to have power over her own body. She has a choice of what she does with her body. She chose to use her body and have sex before she was able to support a child. Is that the child's fault? I don't think the mother has the right to deny a child of living because of her mistake. After all, the fetus is not her body. It's inside her, growing, but it's not her. And, actually, at my school this year 5 girls were pregnant (I know, everybody jokes that our school is a breeding ground) and they only left school for a few months to have the baby and recover. All 5 of them are returning to school next year. They just had to make up work in summer school and summer school's a push over. Their family looks after the baby when they are away. I don't see a problem with that. After all, they are a family. My brothers and sisters had to take care of me when I was young and my parents were at work. I don't get your idea that they have to quit school. |
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Jul 18 2006, 12:38 PM
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#3
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daughter of sin Group: Member Posts: 1,653 Joined: Mar 2006 Member No: 386,134 |
I can't see into the future. How can I, or anyone know the child would have a miserable life? It's impossible. There are many many many people who have had single teenage mothers and have risen above and lead wonderful lives. Even a lot of athletes and celebrities. It gave them a reason to want to overcome and per sue their dreams. It's a natural human instinct to want to thrive and get better and better. Yes, I do think woman has the right to have power over her own body. She has a choice of what she does with her body. She chose to use her body and have sex before she was able to support a child. Is that the child's fault? I don't think the mother has the right to deny a child of living because of her mistake. After all, the fetus is not her body. It's inside her, growing, but it's not her. And, actually, at my school this year 5 girls were pregnant (I know, everybody jokes that our school is a breeding ground) and they only left school for a few months to have the baby and recover. All 5 of them are returning to school next year. They just had to make up work in summer school and summer school's a push over. Their family looks after the baby when they are away. I don't see a problem with that. After all, they are a family. My brothers and sisters had to take care of me when I was young and my parents were at work. I don't get your idea that they have to quit school. Well, how can you KNOW that the baby will have a wonderful life if the mother can't even support herself financially? And if the father isn't there? (which, by the way, happens more often than you think, when a teen mother gets pregnat) It's tough growing up without a father, you know. And it's a very bad idea to have a child when YOU're still a child yourself. That's the worst thing I can think of. It's not right. But guess what - she's already done the mistake. There's no going back. And most people learn from their mistakes. If the woman has the right to have power over her own body, it's her choice whether to have an abortion or not. You can't place a fetus' "rights" above a woman's. Whether she's made the mistake - it doesn't matter. It's not wrong to keep the baby, but it's also not wrong to have an abortion. We're people, and people make mistakes. I hope you know that. It's not an ideal life. I know three girls who got pregnat and decided to have the baby. All three dropped out of school. You wanna know what they're doing now? One of them is cleaner at a school, the other one doesn't have a job, and the third one lives in a small village and as far as I know, she doesn't have a job either. Of course, all three love their kids, but you have no idea how hard it's been for them, especially without a father. Needless to say, they're not happy. It doesn't always happen, but it does sometimes. And why should a single mother have a baby she doesn't want? Especially if she's been raped. There are reasons why abortion is legal in most places. Those people there aren't idiots, most of them. |
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Jul 18 2006, 09:45 PM
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#4
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Pokeball, GO! Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,832 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 433,009 |
I feel that you're an idealist trying to woo the staunch, immobile realists that dwell in this forum, iRock cB.. In that endeavor you're bound to fail. Well unfortunately, forza, you've fallen victim to the "judge others before you know them" trait. Unlike you, I do not see this as a battle of wits. I'm not trying to "woo" anyone, especially on a pathetic online forum with people who I will most likely never meet. You people's opinion means pretty much nothing to me, but I still am respectful and read what you have to say, just as you should with what I have to say. These are my ideas and my opinions that I express. There is no way to "fail" in that. Just because you disagree with my idea doesn't make it wrong or right because, frankly, who are you? You're a nobody to me, as I probably am to you. I actually pity the fact that you see this as some kind of battle that can only result in victory or failure. We're merely just stating our opinions in an intelligent manner. If you have nothing more intelligent to post then the ignorance you have just posted, I suggest you stay out. Please, don't waste our time. Well, how can you KNOW that the baby will have a wonderful life if the mother can't even support herself financially? And if the father isn't there? (which, by the way, happens more often than you think, when a teen mother gets pregnat) It's tough growing up without a father, you know. And it's a very bad idea to have a child when YOU're still a child yourself. That's the worst thing I can think of. It's not right. But guess what - she's already done the mistake. There's no going back. And most people learn from their mistakes. If the woman has the right to have power over her own body, it's her choice whether to have an abortion or not. You can't place a fetus' "rights" above a woman's. Whether she's made the mistake - it doesn't matter. It's not wrong to keep the baby, but it's also not wrong to have an abortion. We're people, and people make mistakes. I hope you know that. It's not an ideal life. I know three girls who got pregnat and decided to have the baby. All three dropped out of school. You wanna know what they're doing now? One of them is cleaner at a school, the other one doesn't have a job, and the third one lives in a small village and as far as I know, she doesn't have a job either. Of course, all three love their kids, but you have no idea how hard it's been for them, especially without a father. Needless to say, they're not happy. It doesn't always happen, but it does sometimes. See, now you impress me. You actually think things through before you say anything. But, I must take the opposing side on this one, haha. The only thing is that you keep repeating things that you have already said and I have already answered. Please try and come up with something new. To me, you're just reiterating because you have run out of an argument. You see, the way you said "when you know the child will have a miserable life" in your previous post to me, I took that as if you were saying that EVERY child will have a miserable life. And now your statement "how can you KNOW that the baby will have a wonderful life," is the same thing. I can ask the question "how do you KNOW it won't?" That will get us nowhere, so it's basically pointless. I'd hope that you would agree with me that there is no way to know. So, I ask you, would you rather give the child a chance to over come, or no chance at all? No chance to per sue life. You (and I don't mean you personally) cut the child down by never giving it a chance. Which is better: Hope or no hope. If nobody had hope and never gave anyone a chance, we would not get very far in life as an individual or as a society. I agree that it's not a good idea to have a child when you are a child yourself, but it's not the baby's fault, now is it? Why should she take it's life? Give it up for adoption. As I have already said at least 3 times already, and explained to several people I know in real life, the fetus is not PART of the woman's body. It is only growing inside her. The child is it's own being. If a fetus is "part" of a woman's body, they would have the same DNA. A "part" of a body is defined by its having the same DNA as other parts. You might argue that the child is dependant on the mother, so it has to be part of her body. Not true. If you or I get into a terrible car accident and are dependent on the life support system, does that make us part of the machine? Not at all. If the child was a part of the woman, then in the case that a pregnant mother dies, the child would die also. Not so. A fetus can survive without it's mothers support for a while. It would die eventually, yet, but you or I would also die without any food supply. So, now we have established that the child is not part of the mothers body. I agree with you. The woman does indeed have the right to have power over her own body. But guess what? The child is not part of her body, therefore, she has no power to choose if it lives or not. I obviously already know that we're people, and people make mistakes and that it's not an ideal life as I have already made a statement almost exactly similar to that. But does that mean that woman should take her mistake out on the child? If I decide to get drunk and go get in a car and nearly kill myself and others by getting in an accident, should I blame the beer company for selling the beer and sue them? Ok, so you know those three girls. I've very sorry for them, but the 5 girls I know went back to school, so what's your point? It was their choice not to go back to school, not the child's. I admire those 3 girls you know for not having an abortion. So, I wonder, what's their view on abortion? Why, if they knew that everything would go wrong in their life and they would be unhappy, did they choose not to have an abortion? Why did they chose to sacrifice their lives to give their children a chance at their own life? I challenge you to ask them that. I'm sure you'd get an interesting response. QUOTE And why should a single mother have a baby she doesn't want? Especially if she's been raped. There are reasons why abortion is legal in most places. Those people there aren't idiots, most of them. Ok, I'm sorry, but this is a very ignorant statement. Often times I find myself not wanting my little sister. Does that give me the right to kill her? Sometimes I don't feel like dealing with my dog. Does that mean I should kill him? So, basically, you're saying if someone doesn't "want" something, they can just kill it off or get rid of it in some form. One word: Adoption. If the woman does not want to keep the child that she had because of rape, she can put it up for adoption. It solves both issues. In the end, the woman does not have the child and the child still gets a chance at life. It's a win win situation.Sorry for the long post. There was a lot to cover, haha. I tried to shorten it as much as possible. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:22 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 99 Joined: Apr 2006 Member No: 399,520 |
As I have already said at least 3 times already, and explained to several people I know in real life, the fetus is not PART of the woman's body. It is only growing inside her. The child is it's own being. If a fetus is "part" of a woman's body, they would have the same DNA. A "part" of a body is defined by its having the same DNA as other parts. You might argue that the child is dependant on the mother, so it has to be part of her body. Not true. If you or I get into a terrible car accident and are dependent on the life support system, does that make us part of the machine? Not at all. If the child was a part of the woman, then in the case that a pregnant mother dies, the child would die also. Not so. A fetus can survive without it's mothers support for a while. It would die eventually, yet, but you or I would also die without any food supply. Ahem, you cannot compare a fetus living off of the mother to us living off of say a respirator. Uhh we at least have the ability to live on our own, while a fetus has absolutely no chance. Invent a machine that can carry a two month old fetus around..then we'll talk. It is a part of the mother because it depends on the mother. Maybe not by definition of the word, but they are sharing the same food, air, water, and are connected. Now I don't know about you..but to me it seems like they're a part of one another. |
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