macs suck., pcs rule. Options

[sadolakced acid]

well, really, it's just a friendly mac v pc thread, and i know it's been posted before, but really, more people will click here if i name it 'macs suck'

my beef with macs-

i used mac OS way back when. bad experiences. not too much a legitimate reason today, but a reason none the less.

but the major one:

proprietary.

i don't know about now, but i know before that everything apple makes, they make it proprietary if they can.

for example, a PC owner can easily upgrade thier optical drive. they could pop in some more memory, or add in a new sound card.

now, sure, mac hardware may be good already, but you won't deny it's not the best, that would be much too expensive.

and as time goes by, it means the only way to upgrade is with a totally new computer.

i mean, sure, it works fine for people who don't want to be bothered to upgrade thier computers, and for the average user, macs are probably pretty good.

but i can't be hassled to buy a new comptuer if i want a CD burner and don't have one.

now, maybe apple has changed and i'm not up with the times. but irregardlessly, i severly dislike and avoid any company that insists on proprietary measures at any time.

which is why i do, and probably always will, hate apple.

[*mipadi*]

my biggest beef with macs is apple and its fans. mipadi, actually a LOT of mac users are basically pricks with money.

This goes back to what I was saying before. Certainly there are some Mac users who are, well, assholes about being a Mac user. Even I, as a Mac user, get pretty irritated when I see other Mac users being elitist and spouting off misinformation and Apple corporate propaganda.

But a lot of PC users act as though Mac users are the only ones who do it--they act as though PC users are victims of this "abuse". This is most certainly not the case. Back when I was a wee Mac user, I didn't care about the Mac-vs.-PC debate at all--yet anytime I mentioned my Mac, or used one at school, hardcore PC users would almost always make some kind of snarky remark. I didn't want to debate the issue, but someone always had to make a joke. Take a look around this forum: Anytime there's a topic about iPods or Macs, even ones that don't bring any sort of debate into the thread, but are merely talking about the product amongst other users, an anti-Mac member almost always coasts in to say that iPods suck, or Macs suck, or Mac OS X sucks. To be fair, you don't see that many Mac users going into the Counter-Strike thread, or other PC threads, and saying that PCs suck for no reason. And notice that this thread in particular wasn't started by a Mac user under the title "PCs suck!".

In my opinion, going out of one's way to put down Apple products is just as elitist as a Mac user going out of his way to prop up Apple products. The point, though, is that you can't really criticize Mac users for being elitist, while letting PC users off the hook.

Is that to say all PC users are assholes? No, just as not all Mac users are elitist. I know a lot of Mac users who aren't just "pricks with money", and it's unfair to characterize them as that. In fact, most I know aren't (and, being a Mac user, I am involved in numerous groups and projects that put me in regular contact with other users). You have a few assholes on both sides of the fence--but is it fair to only criticize Mac users, or stereotype all Mac users based on a few?

Sure, Apple might have a bit of a "cool" factor now, but you have to remember that there are a lot of Mac users--such as myself--that have been using Macs since well before they were cool. I've been using Macs since 1994, and Apple IIs before that; and there are many users who have been onboard since 1984. And you know what? Most of the Mac users who have been around since then have long grown above the "Macs rule! Everyone else sucks!" rally.

John Gruber, a pretty unbiased Mac user/blogger, offers a good article on why people get so emotional about this debate, and a lot of it comes down to people not truly understanding the reasons why users make different choices. A lot of Windows users think that Mac users are "rich, elitist pricks" who think they're better because they use a Mac; a lot of Mac users attribute a choice to use Windows as a lack of aesthetic abilities. Both assumptions offend the other crowd--and they're not usually correct. People have good reasons to use Macs, just as people have good reasons to use Windows.

admittedly, youre not really in that category because you hold a lot of knowledge. but most mac users think that since theyre using a mac, theyre suddenly in an elitest group that is better than "normal" PC users.

I might be reading too much into your point, but I think you raise another issue. Again, certainly some Mac users think they're better than PC users, but often times that is not the case. But there often times is a tendency with some PC users, especially those really into PC gaming, to believe that because a Mac is simple to use, it's a "toy", and most Mac users know nothing about computers. This is not the case at all. Sure, some Mac users know nothing about computers--but a lot of PC users know nothing about computers, either. Some of the most talented software engineers I know work on Macs. Granted, I'm a bit biased, since a large amount of my own development efforts are on the Mac, with other Mac developers, but the point is not to say that the Windows side has no talented developers (this is, of course, untrue), but that the Mac has talented, knowledgeable users, too. In fact, most Mac users do know something about computers. Let's be honest: If you know nothing about computers, you're going go to Wal-Mart, CompUSA, Circuit City, Staples, or Dell, and say, "I want a computer," and you're almost definitely going to get a PC. You have to know where to look if you want a Mac. Again, that's not to say that all PC users are clueless; it's just to emphasize that Mac users, as a whole are not an ignorant lot of users.

and apple doesnt help at all. looking at some of their most recent commercials and its pretty blatant. unlike most PC commercials that stress good deals or better performance than comptetitors, Mac commercials just feed into the eliteist idea that if ur a Mac user, ur better than everyone else. The whole brown box commercial vs the Mac commercial, anyone?

Granted, a lot of Apple promotional material is over the top, but does that mean you should hate Apple, or the Mac? Furthermore, welcome to corporate America. Whether you like or hate rampant corporatism, it's something you probably will have to get used to. You even said yourself that "most PC commercials stress good deals or better performance than competitors." Well, Dell is a competitor. There's no reason to be surprised that Apple would promote its own products above that of Dell.

Of course, I understand what you're saying about Apple's ridiculous commercials, but maybe this is their come-uppance for years of ridicule from PC manufacturers.

Mac users tend to eat up everything Apple says and just repeat it. kinda like how one jock says something retarded, every other jock will laugh.

Again, emphasis that some Mac users spout Apple corporate propaganda--just like some PC users spout PC propaganda (does "You can't find software for the Mac" and "Macs can't be upgraded" sound familiar?). This isn't an issue of Mac users; it's an issue of some users in general.

and apple also shows its arrogance even in its marketing. Apple tried to liscense the i____ name (ipod, itrip) because they thought it was an infringement on their profits, even tho they didnt make any effort until the market exploded with those addons.

Welcome to US patent law. Most companies do the same thing. Microsoft even sued some kid because he had a domain name called mikerowesoft.com. Is this right or wrong? Well, under US patent law, companies have to make an attempt to protect profits and ideas. Does it suck? Well, anyone who talks to me long enough will find out I'm no fan of US patent/copyright law at all, and I think it needs modernized and reworked. So I cringe when I see rampant patent filing and suing. But again, this is not unique to Apple, and it's kind of ridiculous to only criticize Apple for it.

another one, why not let PC users use OSX legally on their computers, instead of holding it really really close to their chest and yelling at hackers who break through their code and discover flaws, yet proclaim that using windows on macs is a totally justified and should be advocated for? because they dont like playing fair

Is it not playing fair? Apple is a hardware company. They make money off of their hardware. Hardware sales fund OS research. Part of the strength of OS X is its ties to the hardware on which it runs. I discussed this earlier, but it's a key factor in making OS X run as smoothly as it does.

Macs are sold as a unit, hardware and software. In the 1980s, Microsoft chose not to do this. They went with a different route: Licensing DOS, then Windows, to anyone who wanted to run it. It's not as though Microsoft doesn't make an money when a user chooses to run Windows on a Mac--they still sell a copy of Windows, and still gain a Windows user, so it's not exactly a cheap shot. (You'll note that neither Microsoft nor Dell are exactly hurting from the decision to allow Macs to run Windows, either.) Furthermore, Apple doesn't sell Macs with Windows pre-installed, so they're not exactly advocating it. They're just offering an option.

That said, would I like to see OS X on non-Apple machines? Sure, it'd be cool. But it would also break one of the biggest strenghts of the Mac, and I doubt the experience would be as good.