macs suck., pcs rule. Options

[sadolakced acid]

well, really, it's just a friendly mac v pc thread, and i know it's been posted before, but really, more people will click here if i name it 'macs suck'

my beef with macs-

i used mac OS way back when. bad experiences. not too much a legitimate reason today, but a reason none the less.

but the major one:

proprietary.

i don't know about now, but i know before that everything apple makes, they make it proprietary if they can.

for example, a PC owner can easily upgrade thier optical drive. they could pop in some more memory, or add in a new sound card.

now, sure, mac hardware may be good already, but you won't deny it's not the best, that would be much too expensive.

and as time goes by, it means the only way to upgrade is with a totally new computer.

i mean, sure, it works fine for people who don't want to be bothered to upgrade thier computers, and for the average user, macs are probably pretty good.

but i can't be hassled to buy a new comptuer if i want a CD burner and don't have one.

now, maybe apple has changed and i'm not up with the times. but irregardlessly, i severly dislike and avoid any company that insists on proprietary measures at any time.

which is why i do, and probably always will, hate apple.

[sadolakced acid]

look michael, you seem overtly defensive.

i came out in the begining and said that this is MY problem with macs. not THE problem with macs.

i don't see how that translates into an attack on macs in general.

i'll tell you my perceptions of macs, and you'll correct them, alright?

1- with a mac, you're pretty much stuck with what you've got.

2- you have to deal with the ego of steve jobs. for instance, years of insisting that one mouse button was the way to go, and then when coming out with a two button mouse, acting as if they were coming out with something revolutionary that was much better than all the other two button mouses in the world.

3- apple claimed that, by simply switching to intel, using the same chips as everyone else, they made a comptuer 5 times as fast as existing ones. i saw the commercials. and i'm pretty sure that that's a pretty far fetched claim.

4- you pay a premium for style, style you may not even like. sure, the new macbooks are pretty cheap. but why the heck is the black one, the only one i like, more expensive? for no other reason?

5- mac users, in general, think their better, sort of like the linux users. somehow, using a mac makes them much better than windows users.

6- apple is all about proprietary. when they can get away with it, they'll go proprietary. of course, they do recognize when they can't, but they try to use proprietary whenever they can.

7- apple makes little effort to be compatible with PCs. i know before, when floppy disks were still quite prevalent, the problems with different disk formatting. i don't know if that applys now (i think it does, in USB drives, for instance), but it seems to be a general trend from apple.

8. apple thinks they're better. intel chips sucked- untill they started using them. (look at the ads). PCs aren't fun- yet they offer about the same set of software. two mouse buttons sucked- untill apple made a mouse with two.

numbero eight is a pretty big thing for me.

[*mipadi*]

look michael, you seem overtly defensive.

Defensive? No, just discussing the issue. I actually think it's kind of funny that you call me defensive. I'm not the one that made a whole thread about how a certain type of computer sucks. And I'm not the one who goes into threads about Macs, or iPods, to slam those products, even when it's just a group of users trying to discuss something in a non-confrontational manner.

1- with a mac, you're pretty much stuck with what you've got.

Not really. You can upgrade them, usually pretty easily. On some models, the graphics card might not be that easy to upgrade, but it probably comes with a decent one already. Remember, most Mac users aren't in the rat-race of upgrading for gaming, so they don't really need to upgrade a graphics card that often.

Certain components, like the motherboard or processor, are not easy to upgrade, but then again, they're not easy to upgrade on a consumer PC, either. Numerous companies do make add-on motherboards and processors for the Macintosh, though.

In terms of other components—RAM, hard drive, monitor (in the case of the PowerMac)—Macs are very easy to upgrade, and use industry-standard parts.

2- you have to deal with the ego of steve jobs. for instance, years of insisting that one mouse button was the way to go, and then when coming out with a two button mouse, acting as if they were coming out with something revolutionary that was much better than all the other two button mouses in the world.

There's no doubting Steve Jobs' arrogance, but I hardly think a Mac user has to deal with it. The people who have to deal with it are his wife and fellow executives.

Incidentally, the two-button mouse thing was more for Windows users switching to the Mac. Long-time Mac users will know that you don't need a two-button mouse on a Mac. I've neve had a use for one, and never been hindered without it.

3- apple claimed that, by simply switching to intel, using the same chips as everyone else, they made a comptuer 5 times as fast as existing ones. i saw the commercials. and i'm pretty sure that that's a pretty far fetched claim.

Reread the marketing material—Apple never claimed their Intel-based machines were five times faster than other Intel-based machines, they claimed they were four to five times faster than PowerPC-based Macintoshes, which is, strangely enough, pretty accurate by most accounts (including those of independent journalists doing reviews). Apple wasn't comparing to other machines—it was comparing to itself.

4- you pay a premium for style, style you may not even like. sure, the new macbooks are pretty cheap. but why the heck is the black one, the only one i like, more expensive? for no other reason?

That I can't answer. Marketing reasons, perhaps. Of course, this is no different from other companies—you only get one style from Dell or Lenovo, too.

5- mac users, in general, think their better, sort of like the linux users. somehow, using a mac makes them much better than windows users.

This is pretty unfair. To be sure, some Mac users have a big of an ego. But take a look around: a lot of PC users do, too. How many times does someone post something in a thread like "Macs suck" or "iPods suck" in this forum alone, just because someone said "I like Macs" or "I like iPods", even when that's not the discussion? Compare that to the number of times someone comes out of nowhere and says "Windows sucks" or "PC's suck", and then tell me it's only Mac users—and Mac users in general—who think they are better.

In fact, it seems with technology that users of all types get pretty emotional. How often are there disagreements on here about the superiority of the Xbox, Gamecube, and PS2? How often does the PS3 or Xbox 360 get knocked on? I even just saw a thread where one guy called another a fag for playing Counter-Strike Source, and another guy called him a fag for playing CS 1.6 instead of 1.5. The issue of superiority is hardly unique to Mac users and Linux users.

6- apple is all about proprietary. when they can get away with it, they'll go proprietary. of course, they do recognize when they can't, but they try to use proprietary whenever they can.

Well, it depends on what you mean by "proprietary". Macs use industry-standard parts; they use industry-standard and open-source software components. I can buy a Mac and remove all my Apple software from it. Try doing that with Windows: It's so hard and time-consuming to remove IE from Windows that it might as well be labeled impossible, and removing WMP and Outlook Express is a chore, too. That's jus an example of vender lock-in on Windows PC's.

As a whole, yes, Macs are proprietary. Bad thing? Some think so. Some would say not. I, for example, find it to be one of the Mac's greatest strengths. I don't have nearly as many headaches with device drivers as I do on Windows, for example. I don't have nearly as many problems at boot-up with trying to validate hardware. My computer actually goes to sleep, something that none of the three PC's I have at home do regularly, which is an example of its hardware and software working in sync. I don't feel hobbled by the proprietary nature of the Macintosh; in fact, I feel empowered, because my time isn't wasted trying to get my computer to recognize a secondary hard drive or the graphics card.

7- apple makes little effort to be compatible with PCs. i know before, when floppy disks were still quite prevalent, the problems with different disk formatting. i don't know if that applys now (i think it does, in USB drives, for instance), but it seems to be a general trend from apple.

This is one place where I think you're rather wrong. Yes, Apple traditionally used its own filesystem with floppies—but so did DOS/Windows, so how can you accuse Apple of making little effort to be compatible? Keep in mind that Macs could, from very on, read and write to DOS disks. Even today, OS X can read from/write to FAT16 and FAT32 volumes—and it could do the same with NTFS volumes, too, if Microsoft would release the spec to NTFS (wait, what's this—another example company other than Apple using proprietary technology? ).

Furthermore, Macs can read from/write to Windows SMB shares, as well as network easily with Unix-based machines.

But what about Windows? Hm, Windows can't connect to an Apple share over AFP. Windows can't even network with other machines, unless those machines masquerade as Windows boxes. Oh, and even in 2006, Windows still can't read non-FAT and non-NTFS disks. So is it Apple that's not compatible with Windows, or Windows that isn't compatible with, well, every other system in existence?

8. apple thinks they're better. intel chips sucked- untill they started using them. (look at the ads). PCs aren't fun- yet they offer about the same set of software. two mouse buttons sucked- untill apple made a mouse with two.

You seem to be unduly emotional about a company promoting their own products above those of their competitors! Does Apple think its products are better? I don't doubt it. But what company doesn't promote their products as better than others? This goes back to an earlier point—that some seem to be criticizing Apple for doing what every other company does to make money.

Does Apple deserve some of the credit they give? Well, they do create some pretty revolutionary designs. They do win quite a number of awards for both hardware and software design. And they did put a lot more effort into their user interface than Microsoft does in its own. Does that make them better? That's for you to decide. But I don't think you should be shocked that Apple would promote its own products as better than those of rival corporations! They are trying to make a buck, after all, and companies don't make a buck by pointing out the benefits of other products.