The Problem of Free Will, A Theological Problem. |
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 Mar 15 2006, 11:05 AM
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 in the reverb chamber.  Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 4,022 Joined: Nov 2005 Member No: 300,308  |
Alright, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the theological Problem of Free Will. So, under common christian theolgy, God is described as being all-knowing (omniscient) and all powerful (omnipotent). Men are also described as having free will. This is at the heart of the reality of theological fatalism. Solving this issue is vital to christian theology as it becomes an inherent contradiction as well as threatening to the christian conception of salvation and damnation.
I hold that God's infallible foreknowledge makes impossible man's free will. If god knows the future, how can we choose our own path? Discuss. |
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| *kryogenix* |
Mar 29 2006, 11:57 PM
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I suppose I'll post the link again, since people have ignored it.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm#cat |
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Mar 31 2006, 01:20 AM
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 Quand j'étais jeune... Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 6,826 Joined: Jan 2004 Member No: 1,272 |
QUOTE(kryogenix @ Mar 29 2006, 10:57 PM)  I suppose I'll post the link again, since people have ignored it. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm#cat And people will continue to ignore it if you don't summarize it.   Oh yea, I saw this on Wiki, thought it interesting, and was wondering if someone, preferably a Christian will answer it. "Assuming that an individual had no choice in who, when and where to come into being: How are the choices of existence determined by what he is?" [wikipedia] |
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| *kryogenix* |
Apr 1 2006, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE(Spirited Away @ Mar 31 2006, 1:20 AM) And people will continue to ignore it if you don't summarize it. I don't think a short summary will do this topic justice, but I'll give it a shot. God exists outside of time. Knowledge of an outcome has no effect on the outcome. Say you could travel in time and find out the outcome of a sporting event, and return to the present. Would this change the outcome? QUOTE Oh yea, I saw this on Wiki, thought it interesting, and was wondering if someone, preferably a Christian will answer it. "Assuming that an individual had no choice in who, when and where to come into being: How are the choices of existence determined by what he is?" [wikipedia] I don't know if I'm the person to ask, since Catholics don't believe in predestination in the sense that no one is predestined for hell. |
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Apr 18 2006, 12:09 PM
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in the reverb chamber. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 4,022 Joined: Nov 2005 Member No: 300,308 |
QUOTE(kryogenix @ Apr 1 2006, 1:49 PM) Say you could travel in time and find out the outcome of a sporting event, and return to the present. Would this change the outcome? Ultimate foreknowledge is not equal to simple foreknowledge. It's a false analogy. Also, you seem to miss the point. Change the outcome? I'm not saying God is changing any outcomes. I'm saying that God's omniscience and perfect foreknowledge prohibit the existence of a free willed man. These concepts and ideas conflict and deny the law of contradiction. How can we have a free choice in a matter in which we have no options? How could we have options given that we can only act in accordance to God's foreknowledge? |
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Posts in this topic
Acid Bath Slayer The Problem of Free Will Mar 15 2006, 11:05 AM
x Ragazza I agree with you.
I guess people could argue that... Mar 18 2006, 11:50 PM sadolakced acid we choose the path.
god ordains the destiny.
a ... Mar 20 2006, 03:13 AM
racoons > you QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 20 2006, 8:13... Mar 20 2006, 03:26 AM disco infiltrator But wouldn't God know how you're going to ... Mar 21 2006, 04:23 PM sadolakced acid he does to the extent that you know a ball will ge... Mar 22 2006, 12:20 AM vash1530 ^that contradicts free will because it implies a s... Mar 22 2006, 07:36 AM racoons > you oh i dont know...
if god is omnipotent, he can s... Mar 22 2006, 02:59 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(racoons > you @ Mar 22 2006, 1:5... Mar 22 2006, 03:14 PM Paradox of Life QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Mar 22 2006, 2:1... Mar 22 2006, 04:42 PM mipadi QUOTE(Paradox of Life @ Mar 22 2006, 4:42... Mar 22 2006, 04:47 PM Paradox of Life QUOTE(mipadi @ Mar 22 2006, 3:47 PM) But ... Mar 25 2006, 04:24 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(Paradox of Life @ Mar 25 2006, 3:24... Mar 25 2006, 04:30 PM racoons > you ^
we cant.. im just playing with ideas.
i dunno..... Mar 22 2006, 03:30 PM disco infiltrator But how could he not use it? If "everything h... Mar 22 2006, 04:27 PM racoons > you QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Mar 22 2006, 9... Mar 23 2006, 05:28 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(racoons > you @ Mar 23 2006, 4:2... Mar 25 2006, 07:40 PM racoons > you QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 26 2006, 1:40... Mar 30 2006, 03:06 PM oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo ok .. if a bird is flying south and the bird wants... Mar 22 2006, 05:03 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo @ Mar 22 2006, 4... Mar 22 2006, 07:48 PM oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 22 2006, 7:48... Mar 24 2006, 04:45 PM twin__cinema QUOTE(oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo @ Mar 24 2006, 3... Mar 24 2006, 04:51 PM sadolakced acid which is why god, as defined to be omnipotent and ... Mar 23 2006, 01:19 AM vash1530 Random question to Acid Bath Slayer: Have you read... Mar 23 2006, 11:34 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(vash1530 @ Mar 23 2006, 10:34 AM) R... Mar 23 2006, 12:40 PM vash1530 QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Mar 23 2006, 12... Mar 24 2006, 07:31 AM CrackedRearView ^ Incorrect. There may be a God, but we simply do... Mar 23 2006, 06:15 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 23 2006, 5:15... Mar 23 2006, 06:18 PM racoons > you QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 23 2006, 11:1... Mar 25 2006, 07:28 PM sadolakced acid QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 23 2006, 5:15... Mar 24 2006, 02:30 AM twin__cinema Oh gosh... I used to have a really good explainati... Mar 24 2006, 03:18 PM mipadi QUOTE(twin__cinema @ Mar 24 2006, 3:18 PM... Mar 24 2006, 03:54 PM twin__cinema QUOTE(mipadi @ Mar 24 2006, 2:54 PM) But ... Mar 24 2006, 04:07 PM mipadi QUOTE(twin__cinema @ Mar 24 2006, 4:07 PM... Mar 24 2006, 04:19 PM twin__cinema QUOTE(mipadi @ Mar 24 2006, 3:19 PM) Does... Mar 24 2006, 04:31 PM Spirited Away Kind of late... but
QUOTE(twin__cinema @ ... Mar 26 2006, 09:53 AM oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo yes thats right. im mistakein.
We all have to dis... Mar 24 2006, 05:00 PM D1SMANTLED haha this is sorta turning into a debate about the... Mar 24 2006, 06:46 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(twin__cinema @ Mar 24 2006, 2:18 PM... Mar 25 2006, 01:24 PM sadolakced acid did jesus make me so i would hate him? did he kno... Mar 26 2006, 02:39 AM disco infiltrator FAE! <3333
Justin makes a good point. If a... Mar 26 2006, 01:58 PM CrackedRearView I also think Gregory Koukl offered a good analogy ... Mar 26 2006, 02:28 PM kryogenix http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm#cat Mar 26 2006, 06:56 PM sadolakced acid parents are not all powerful. god is. Mar 26 2006, 07:42 PM insomniac ..
*looks around*
huh? this from justin, who is no... Mar 26 2006, 08:01 PM sadolakced acid well, according the the bible god is all-knowing, ... Mar 26 2006, 08:22 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 26 2006, 7:22... Mar 26 2006, 08:31 PM sadolakced acid what i'm saying is if god is all knowing and a... Mar 26 2006, 09:41 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 26 2006, 8:41... Mar 26 2006, 10:16 PM illumineering Latent knowledge does not interfere with choice as... Mar 26 2006, 11:26 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(illumineering @ Mar 26 2006, 10:26 ... Mar 27 2006, 12:10 AM sadolakced acid i don't think i'm doing a good job of expl... Mar 27 2006, 12:07 AM kryogenix QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 27 2006, 12:0... Mar 27 2006, 07:44 PM sadolakced acid QUOTE(kryogenix @ Mar 27 2006, 6:44 PM) B... Mar 28 2006, 12:50 AM slut i took a shit on the playground slide. Mar 27 2006, 12:14 AM disco infiltrator QUOTE(slut @ Mar 26 2006, 11:14 PM) i too... Mar 27 2006, 12:11 PM x__Elle. QUOTE(slut @ Mar 27 2006, 12:14 AM) i too... Mar 28 2006, 12:58 AM CrackedRearView ^ Mar 27 2006, 01:58 AM disco infiltrator It's fine if he knows AFTER the event happens;... Mar 28 2006, 11:57 AM x__Elle. { sigh }
I don't really see this debate going... Mar 28 2006, 02:02 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(x__Elle. @ Mar 28 2006, 1:02 PM) { ... Mar 28 2006, 03:54 PM sadolakced acid yes, the whole "i can still choose even thoug... Mar 28 2006, 11:50 PM x__Elle. I'm still a little confused, Nate. I understan... Mar 30 2006, 12:17 PM CrackedRearView I still don't get the reasoning behind the arg... Mar 30 2006, 06:05 PM x__Elle. QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 30 2006, 5:05... Mar 30 2006, 08:02 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 30 2006, 6:05... Apr 2 2006, 05:21 PM disco infiltrator I read your signature. <3Fae.
QUOTEYeah, I thi... Mar 31 2006, 01:23 AM I Shot JFK QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Mar 31 2006, 7... Mar 31 2006, 03:47 PM x__Elle. QUOTE(I Shot JFK @ Mar 31 2006, 3:47 PM) ... Mar 31 2006, 04:09 PM disco infiltrator But knowledge isn't something you can choose t... Apr 1 2006, 01:02 AM sillakilla220 this argument makes me smile, such lame arguments.... Apr 1 2006, 03:02 AM Spirited Away QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 2:02 AM... Apr 1 2006, 10:25 AM mipadi QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 3:02 AM... Apr 1 2006, 11:01 AM x__Elle. QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 3:02 AM... Apr 1 2006, 01:45 PM sillakilla220 cuz with a subject like this there arent facts. i... Apr 1 2006, 07:15 PM chaneun QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 7:15 PM... Apr 1 2006, 08:32 PM Spirited Away QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 6:15 PM... Apr 1 2006, 10:22 PM Yemmerz I think someone was using the paper plane example.... Apr 2 2006, 02:28 PM CrackedRearView ^
I still think the logic is a bit restrictive an... Apr 3 2006, 12:25 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Apr 3 2006, 12:25... Apr 3 2006, 03:51 AM CrackedRearView QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Apr 3 2006, 3:51... Apr 3 2006, 09:32 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 3 2006, 7:48 AM... Apr 4 2006, 08:53 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Apr 4 2006, 8:53... Apr 4 2006, 11:42 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Apr 4 2006, 11:42... Apr 5 2006, 06:44 AM sillakilla220 god knowin our path doesnt prove our lives are det... Apr 3 2006, 04:26 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 3 2006, 4:26 AM... Apr 3 2006, 04:29 AM sillakilla220 u still have options. Apr 3 2006, 07:48 AM mipadi It's an interesting coincidence that I am in t... Apr 4 2006, 09:32 PM CrackedRearView QUOTELet me ask you this: Do you believe than man ... Apr 6 2006, 09:17 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Apr 6 2006, 9:17 ... Apr 6 2006, 10:39 PM I Shot JFK QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Apr 1 2006, 7:0... Apr 7 2006, 05:42 PM disco infiltrator It doesn't matter; no matter how much power yo... Apr 8 2006, 12:07 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Apr 8 2006, 12... Apr 8 2006, 08:17 AM I Shot JFK QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Apr 8 2006, 6:0... Apr 8 2006, 09:31 AM disco infiltrator Well yea, that was my point...you can't make y... Apr 8 2006, 02:28 PM disco infiltrator Like, knowing that a certain team won wouldn't... Apr 19 2006, 10:15 PM |
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