Columbine High School Shooting Massacre, Way back in April 20, 1999 Options

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

Sorry if there is a topic like this!

I recently watched a documentary called Bowling for Columbine. It's basically about a high school massacre in Columbine High School and the director's thoughts on gun violence.


Anyways I really want to talk about the high school shooting a bit more. It's the second deadliest attack on a school and the deadliest school shooting. The two shooters, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and teachers and injured 24 others. The documentary I mentioned earlier has detailed footage of what had happened through the security cameras (boy were they brutal). These two students were "out-casts" of the school and were full of hatred towards their fellow students.

The Columbine High School massacre occurred on Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at Columbine High School in unincorporated Jefferson County, Colorado, near Denver and Littleton, Colorado, in the United States. Two teenage students, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, carried out a shooting rampage, killing twelve fellow students and a teacher, as well as wounding twenty-four others, before committing suicide. It is considered to be the deadliest school shooting, and the second deadliest attack on a school in US History.

The massacre provoked refined debate regarding gun control laws and the availability of firearms in the United States. Much discussion also centered on the nature of high school cliques and bullying, as well as the role of violent movies and video games in American society. Several of the victims who were believed to have been killed due to their religious beliefs became a source of inspiration to others, notably Christians, and led some to lament the decline of religion in public education and society in general. The shooting also resulted in an increased emphasis on school security, and a moral panic aimed at goth culture, heavy metal music, social pariahs, the use of pharmaceutical anti-depressants by teenagers, violent films and violent video games

here is a detailed article of it:
Wikipedia explains what happened before, during, and after the shooting
The Depressive and the Psychopath

I know this happened years ago, but I want to see if there were people who actually went to Columbine, heard of it in the news by the time it came out, and a few of your reactions (and theories as to why this happened).

[NoSex]

i agree. she did what she did and we shouldn't be arguing about a decision that's already been made.

I think it's important. Very.

Have you not even been reading the thread? Did you not notice the rather thorough artical post by Mipadi concerning the story behind her "decision?" Did you entirely miss that the incident never even happened? It's a made up story. Did you really miss it, or did you just ignore it?

she didn't commit suicide she died for god. there's nothing wrong with that. this was a really sad story. & i wouldn't lie about someone like god just to save my life. that's crack head behavior. TELL THE TRUTH about god. jeez people.

Refer to the above.
Also, I'm going to go strap some bombs to my chest now.

Life to Allah! Allah lives!

[colleen92]

I think it's important. Very.

Have you not even been reading the thread? Did you not notice the rather thorough artical post by Mipadi concerning the story behind her "decision?" Did you entirely miss that the incident never even happened? It's a made up story. Did you really miss it, or did you just ignore it?


Life to Allah! Allah lives!

i ignored it because it's one of the most true stories around. read She Said Yes. it tells that she did in fact say "yes" on several accounts. maybe when you read it you'll realize that it most definately was a true story and maybe you'll end up respecting her a little more than you do now.


by the way, i'm done arguing with you on this. we obviously have different points of view and we both are too stubborn to see the other side. so i'm done.

[NoSex]

i ignored it because it's one of the most true stories around. read She Said Yes. maybe you'll realize that it most definately was a true story and maybe you'll end up respecting her a little more.
by the way, i'm done arguing with you on this. we obviously have different points of view and we both are too stubborn to see the other side. so i'm done.

How is it one of the "most true stories around?" How exactly do you know such things?

Do you honestly not realize the dangerous implications your statements have? Don't you also notice that you assuming that there is indeed a god, without any real reason, and believing that this god is a particular Christian God which would favor someone dieing over them lieing about their belief in him.

What if she was a hindu and was asked if she believed in Brahma? Would it have been foolish of her to say yes then? I take it you don't believe in Hinduism.

The foolishness in praising martydom is powerful, and plentiful. This is why this is important, this is why it's dangerous.

I'm not stubborn or close minded or anything. I can definately see your side. But, I don't think it is correct. I would read the book, but I just read an article explaining why it isn't true. Although, I would still love to hear what the book has to say exactly about it (Meaning the evidence proving it ever occured in the first place).

Take a look at it. Expand your mind. By ignoring it, you're just admiting your close-minded and willing ignorance.

Here, look (From Wikipedia):

Official reports state that Harris then walked over to the table across from the lower computer row, slapped the top twice with his hand, knelt down, and said "peek-a-boo" before shooting Cassie Bernall in the head. The recoil from the weapon hit his face, breaking his nose. Although it is popularly believed that Bernall was the individual who was asked "Do you believe in God?", the official investigation has attributed this remark not to Bernall but to a surviving student, Valeen Schnurr (see below). Three students who witnessed Bernall's death, including the person that was hiding under the table with her, have testified the exchange did not occur.[16] Nevertheless, others who were in the library asserted the exchange occurred, though none of these students physically witnessed it. They may instead have heard the later exchange between Klebold and Schnurr and been mislead by news reports attributing the words to Bernall. This misunderstanding sparked much debate as to whether the official investigation thoroughly assessed all possibilities.

The official investigation into the shootings concluded that Cassie did not have the exchange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Hig...of_the_shooters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall

[colleen92]

How is it one of the "most true stories around?" How exactly do you know such things?

Do you honestly not realize the dangerous implications your statements have? Don't you also notice that you assuming that there is indeed a god, without any real reason, and believing that this god is a particular Christian God which would favor someone dieing over them lieing about their belief in him.

What if she was a hindu and was asked if she believed in Brahma? Would it have been foolish of her to say yes then? I take it you don't believe in Hinduism.

The foolishness in praising martydom is powerful, and plentiful. This is why this is important, this is why it's dangerous.

I'm not stubborn or close minded or anything. I can definately see your side. But, I don't think it is correct. I would read the book, but I just read an article explaining why it isn't true. Although, I would still love to hear what the book has to say exactly about it (Meaning the evidence proving it ever occured in the first place).

Take a look at it. Expand your mind. By ignoring it, you're just admiting your close-minded and willing ignorance.

Here, look (From Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Hig...of_the_shooters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall

And I can see your side, too. I just don't agree with it either. I do wish you would read the book because it was written by her mother and has more than enough people that have said what happened in it.

I read the article. I think it is interesting there are two extremely different sides of the story. All over whether she said the word "yes" or not. Either way I'd like to share with you a quote from the book that I have been referring to this entire time:

I couldn't see anything when those guys came up to Cassie, but I could recognize her voice. I could hear everything like it was right next to me. One of them asked her if she believed in God. She paused, like she didn't know what she was going to answer, and then she said yes. She must have been scared, but her voices didn't sound shaky. It was strong. Then they asked her why, though they didn't giver her a chance to respond. They just blew her away. (Bernall, 14)

The boy that said this was under a desk about 25 feet away.

[NoSex]

And I can see your side, too. I just don't agree with it either. I do wish you would read the book because it was written by her mother and has more than enough people that have said what happened in it.

I read the article. I think it is interesting there are two extremely different sides of the story. All over whether she said the word "yes" or not. Either way I'd like to share with you a quote from the book that I have been referring to this entire time:

I couldn't see anything when those guys came up to Cassie, but I could recognize her voice. I could hear everything like it was right next to me. One of them asked her if she believed in God. She paused, like she didn't know what she was going to answer, and then she said yes. She must have been scared, but her voices didn't sound shaky. It was strong. Then they asked her why, though they didn't giver her a chance to respond. They just blew her away. (Bernall, 14)

The boy that said this was under a desk about 25 feet away.

I will look at the book since you spent some time to look at the article. But, consider this:

That boy was named Craig Scott. Craig hid under a desk 25 feet away from the desk that Cassie Bernall and Emily Wyant were hiding under. Emily Wyant is the prime witness and only person to have actually seen the death of Cassie Bernall and live to tell about it. She sat right next to her under the desk and experienced each moment with both her eyes, and her ears. Craig only heard an exchange of words between who he thought was Emily and the shooter. Emily Wyant has come out to say that no such exchange occured. The official account holds that the two girls ducked below the desk and Cassie began to pray aloud: "Dear God. Dear God. Why is this happening? I just want to
go home."

At that moment Harris slapped the top of the desk twice, knelt down, and said "peek-a-boo" before shooting Cassie in the head. No exchange of words were heard or recognized by Emily and several other witnesses have confirmed the same.

Emily Wyant's mother accounts her daughter's story:

Emily was right there next to her, and in fact, she was looking right in
her eyes, so you'd think she would be able to hear that, being right next
to her, if anything was exchanged. And she can't remember anything being
said

In the same room was a girl named Valeen Schnurr. She had been wounded by a shotgun blast and layed nearby Cassie and Emily aside another desk. Valeen prayed aloud: "Oh, my God, oh, my God, don't let me die." Harris made his way to Valeen and asked her if she believed in God. Startled for a moment she thought. She said that, "Yes," she did. Harris preceeded to ask, "Why?" Injured, afraid, and startled, Valeen thought and quickly blurted out, "Because I believe and my parents brought me up that way." Harris reloaded his gun and turned away, he then left the room. Her life was spared and she is still alive today. This is how this story is retold; straight from the horses mouth.

Other students heard this exchange and confirmed its existence. Most of which were in range and vantage to see the entire incident. However, several students could not see it, but only hear it. The same way students could not see Cassie's death. One of those students was Craig Scott; the boy you quoted.

Craig said that he had recognized Cassie's voice. However, when investigators took Craig back to the scene to recount exactly what had happened, the news reports followed:

"He did not actually see
the individuals involved ... Investigators said Scott was asked to point
out where the gunmen were at the time, and he indicated a table where
Valeen Schnurr -- not Bernall was hiding."

Craig misheard. The area he thought the exchange had happened was actually where Valeen hid. Why don't we read about this in "She Said Yes?" Why don't we hear about this at all? Why doesn't the book account dissenting views on the matter? It's because the book isn't an objective study on what actually happened. It's a tool to soothe broken hears, broken minds, broken souls, and to share that mourning with the world in the sensation of it all. It's easier to get over the death of your daughter if you feel she had died for a cause. As that cause didn't truly exist, her mother created it for her. Although this may not be so. Her mother could have been a true believer, because news reports became very mixed early after the incident. However, Cassie's mother would be aware of these dissenting views because the first paper to detail the events published Emily Wyant's version of events, not Craig Scott's.

Here it is, and exert from Valeen's graduation speech from 1999 (The year of the shooting):

Then we heard the gunmen – who we later learned were two boys from our own school – enter the library. They laughed as they shot students at random. I cried and hid my face behind the thick beam that went across the underside of the table. I continued to pray desperately.

Then I felt searing pain as gunfire hit me. The force of it knocked me out from under the table.

“God help me!” I screamed, and then looked up, directly at the gunmen.

“Do you believe in God?” one of them demanded.

At first I was terrified to say yes, but then knew I couldn’t lie.

“Yes,” I said.

“Why?” they asked, taunting.

I mumbled, now in a daze from my wounds, “It’s what my parents have taught me. It’s what I believe.”

Then I hid under the table again, weak from blood loss and hoping they would leave me alone.

Miraculously, they turned away and eventually left the library.

Official reports deny the charge that attacks were calculated in the end. No one had seemed to die for anything other than being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Sorry, as much as you seemed to have wished for it, no martyrs here. No wonderful, bitter sweet, delicate, spiritual victories. It was just a horrible and detestable event. Maybe it would be nice to believe otherwise, but let's face reality, shall we?

We know Valeen's story. She was lucky enough to be able to tell it. Now, even if we grant that Cassie may have been shot for answering the same question in the same way Valeen had, against a heap of evidence that she never did, we would have to ask ourselves a vital question, why? If they were killing for a "yes" answer, why is Valeen still able to tell her story today? Why didn't they shoot her? Why did they then leave the library? Could the opposite hypothesis be drawn? Did Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold instead respect the "yes" answer rather than despise it? If so, isn't that a scary thought?