The Problem of Free Will, A Theological Problem. |
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 Mar 15 2006, 11:05 AM
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 in the reverb chamber.  Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 4,022 Joined: Nov 2005 Member No: 300,308  |
Alright, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the theological Problem of Free Will. So, under common christian theolgy, God is described as being all-knowing (omniscient) and all powerful (omnipotent). Men are also described as having free will. This is at the heart of the reality of theological fatalism. Solving this issue is vital to christian theology as it becomes an inherent contradiction as well as threatening to the christian conception of salvation and damnation.
I hold that God's infallible foreknowledge makes impossible man's free will. If god knows the future, how can we choose our own path? Discuss. |
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Mar 26 2006, 09:41 PM
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 dripping destruction Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 7,282 Joined: Jun 2004 Member No: 21,929 |
what i'm saying is if god is all knowing and all powerful, there is no free will.
1- he is all knowing and knows who is going to go to heaven and hell. 2- he has the power to make people either go to heaven or hell. 3- if he doesn't change it so you go to heaven or hell, then he is deciding that you should go to where he knows you'll go, and thus he has decided for you, and you have no free will. 4- if he does change it, then no free will. |
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| *CrackedRearView* |
Mar 26 2006, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 26 2006, 8:41 PM)  what i'm saying is if god is all knowing and all powerful, there is no free will. 1- he is all knowing and knows who is going to go to heaven and hell. 2- he has the power to make people either go to heaven or hell. 3- if he doesn't change it so you go to heaven or hell, then he is deciding that you should go to where he knows you'll go, and thus he has decided for you, and you have no free will. 4- if he does change it, then no free will. No. Still no. He's not going to urge people in one direction...He may know that you're going to end up in heaven or hell but that has no bearing on whether you had the free will to get to either one you chose. He set the standards for getting into heaven; whether someone leads a life in the correct fashion to arrive there or not is the question. You're incorrect in your third statement where you say this: QUOTE if he doesn't change it so you go to heaven or hell, then he is deciding that you should go to where he knows you'll go, and thus he has decided for you, and you have no free will. The only thing He decided to do was put the person on the earth. What proof do you have that people don't start with a tabula rasa and make their own choices? So what if He knows what you'll do? EDIT// Again, He doesn't predestine you simply by knowing what you're going to do. |
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Posts in this topic
Acid Bath Slayer The Problem of Free Will Mar 15 2006, 11:05 AM
x Ragazza I agree with you.
I guess people could argue that... Mar 18 2006, 11:50 PM sadolakced acid we choose the path.
god ordains the destiny.
a ... Mar 20 2006, 03:13 AM
racoons > you QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 20 2006, 8:13... Mar 20 2006, 03:26 AM disco infiltrator But wouldn't God know how you're going to ... Mar 21 2006, 04:23 PM sadolakced acid he does to the extent that you know a ball will ge... Mar 22 2006, 12:20 AM vash1530 ^that contradicts free will because it implies a s... Mar 22 2006, 07:36 AM racoons > you oh i dont know...
if god is omnipotent, he can s... Mar 22 2006, 02:59 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(racoons > you @ Mar 22 2006, 1:5... Mar 22 2006, 03:14 PM Paradox of Life QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Mar 22 2006, 2:1... Mar 22 2006, 04:42 PM mipadi QUOTE(Paradox of Life @ Mar 22 2006, 4:42... Mar 22 2006, 04:47 PM Paradox of Life QUOTE(mipadi @ Mar 22 2006, 3:47 PM) But ... Mar 25 2006, 04:24 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(Paradox of Life @ Mar 25 2006, 3:24... Mar 25 2006, 04:30 PM racoons > you ^
we cant.. im just playing with ideas.
i dunno..... Mar 22 2006, 03:30 PM disco infiltrator But how could he not use it? If "everything h... Mar 22 2006, 04:27 PM racoons > you QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Mar 22 2006, 9... Mar 23 2006, 05:28 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(racoons > you @ Mar 23 2006, 4:2... Mar 25 2006, 07:40 PM racoons > you QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 26 2006, 1:40... Mar 30 2006, 03:06 PM oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo ok .. if a bird is flying south and the bird wants... Mar 22 2006, 05:03 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo @ Mar 22 2006, 4... Mar 22 2006, 07:48 PM oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 22 2006, 7:48... Mar 24 2006, 04:45 PM twin__cinema QUOTE(oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo @ Mar 24 2006, 3... Mar 24 2006, 04:51 PM sadolakced acid which is why god, as defined to be omnipotent and ... Mar 23 2006, 01:19 AM vash1530 Random question to Acid Bath Slayer: Have you read... Mar 23 2006, 11:34 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(vash1530 @ Mar 23 2006, 10:34 AM) R... Mar 23 2006, 12:40 PM vash1530 QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Mar 23 2006, 12... Mar 24 2006, 07:31 AM CrackedRearView ^ Incorrect. There may be a God, but we simply do... Mar 23 2006, 06:15 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 23 2006, 5:15... Mar 23 2006, 06:18 PM racoons > you QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 23 2006, 11:1... Mar 25 2006, 07:28 PM sadolakced acid QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 23 2006, 5:15... Mar 24 2006, 02:30 AM twin__cinema Oh gosh... I used to have a really good explainati... Mar 24 2006, 03:18 PM mipadi QUOTE(twin__cinema @ Mar 24 2006, 3:18 PM... Mar 24 2006, 03:54 PM twin__cinema QUOTE(mipadi @ Mar 24 2006, 2:54 PM) But ... Mar 24 2006, 04:07 PM mipadi QUOTE(twin__cinema @ Mar 24 2006, 4:07 PM... Mar 24 2006, 04:19 PM twin__cinema QUOTE(mipadi @ Mar 24 2006, 3:19 PM) Does... Mar 24 2006, 04:31 PM Spirited Away Kind of late... but
QUOTE(twin__cinema @ ... Mar 26 2006, 09:53 AM oX_Muh_Nirvana_Xo yes thats right. im mistakein.
We all have to dis... Mar 24 2006, 05:00 PM D1SMANTLED haha this is sorta turning into a debate about the... Mar 24 2006, 06:46 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(twin__cinema @ Mar 24 2006, 2:18 PM... Mar 25 2006, 01:24 PM sadolakced acid did jesus make me so i would hate him? did he kno... Mar 26 2006, 02:39 AM disco infiltrator FAE! <3333
Justin makes a good point. If a... Mar 26 2006, 01:58 PM CrackedRearView I also think Gregory Koukl offered a good analogy ... Mar 26 2006, 02:28 PM kryogenix http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm#cat Mar 26 2006, 06:56 PM sadolakced acid parents are not all powerful. god is. Mar 26 2006, 07:42 PM insomniac ..
*looks around*
huh? this from justin, who is no... Mar 26 2006, 08:01 PM sadolakced acid well, according the the bible god is all-knowing, ... Mar 26 2006, 08:22 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 26 2006, 7:22... Mar 26 2006, 08:31 PM illumineering Latent knowledge does not interfere with choice as... Mar 26 2006, 11:26 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(illumineering @ Mar 26 2006, 10:26 ... Mar 27 2006, 12:10 AM sadolakced acid i don't think i'm doing a good job of expl... Mar 27 2006, 12:07 AM kryogenix QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Mar 27 2006, 12:0... Mar 27 2006, 07:44 PM sadolakced acid QUOTE(kryogenix @ Mar 27 2006, 6:44 PM) B... Mar 28 2006, 12:50 AM slut i took a shit on the playground slide. Mar 27 2006, 12:14 AM disco infiltrator QUOTE(slut @ Mar 26 2006, 11:14 PM) i too... Mar 27 2006, 12:11 PM x__Elle. QUOTE(slut @ Mar 27 2006, 12:14 AM) i too... Mar 28 2006, 12:58 AM CrackedRearView ^ Mar 27 2006, 01:58 AM disco infiltrator It's fine if he knows AFTER the event happens;... Mar 28 2006, 11:57 AM x__Elle. { sigh }
I don't really see this debate going... Mar 28 2006, 02:02 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(x__Elle. @ Mar 28 2006, 1:02 PM) { ... Mar 28 2006, 03:54 PM sadolakced acid yes, the whole "i can still choose even thoug... Mar 28 2006, 11:50 PM kryogenix I suppose I'll post the link again, since peop... Mar 29 2006, 11:57 PM Spirited Away QUOTE(kryogenix @ Mar 29 2006, 10:57 PM) ... Mar 31 2006, 01:20 AM kryogenix QUOTE(Spirited Away @ Mar 31 2006, 1:20 A... Apr 1 2006, 01:49 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(kryogenix @ Apr 1 2006, 1:49 PM) Sa... Apr 18 2006, 12:09 PM x__Elle. I'm still a little confused, Nate. I understan... Mar 30 2006, 12:17 PM CrackedRearView I still don't get the reasoning behind the arg... Mar 30 2006, 06:05 PM x__Elle. QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 30 2006, 5:05... Mar 30 2006, 08:02 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Mar 30 2006, 6:05... Apr 2 2006, 05:21 PM disco infiltrator I read your signature. <3Fae.
QUOTEYeah, I thi... Mar 31 2006, 01:23 AM I Shot JFK QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Mar 31 2006, 7... Mar 31 2006, 03:47 PM x__Elle. QUOTE(I Shot JFK @ Mar 31 2006, 3:47 PM) ... Mar 31 2006, 04:09 PM disco infiltrator But knowledge isn't something you can choose t... Apr 1 2006, 01:02 AM sillakilla220 this argument makes me smile, such lame arguments.... Apr 1 2006, 03:02 AM Spirited Away QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 2:02 AM... Apr 1 2006, 10:25 AM mipadi QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 3:02 AM... Apr 1 2006, 11:01 AM x__Elle. QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 3:02 AM... Apr 1 2006, 01:45 PM sillakilla220 cuz with a subject like this there arent facts. i... Apr 1 2006, 07:15 PM chaneun QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 7:15 PM... Apr 1 2006, 08:32 PM Spirited Away QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 1 2006, 6:15 PM... Apr 1 2006, 10:22 PM Yemmerz I think someone was using the paper plane example.... Apr 2 2006, 02:28 PM CrackedRearView ^
I still think the logic is a bit restrictive an... Apr 3 2006, 12:25 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Apr 3 2006, 12:25... Apr 3 2006, 03:51 AM CrackedRearView QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Apr 3 2006, 3:51... Apr 3 2006, 09:32 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 3 2006, 7:48 AM... Apr 4 2006, 08:53 PM CrackedRearView QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Apr 4 2006, 8:53... Apr 4 2006, 11:42 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Apr 4 2006, 11:42... Apr 5 2006, 06:44 AM sillakilla220 god knowin our path doesnt prove our lives are det... Apr 3 2006, 04:26 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(sillakilla220 @ Apr 3 2006, 4:26 AM... Apr 3 2006, 04:29 AM sillakilla220 u still have options. Apr 3 2006, 07:48 AM mipadi It's an interesting coincidence that I am in t... Apr 4 2006, 09:32 PM CrackedRearView QUOTELet me ask you this: Do you believe than man ... Apr 6 2006, 09:17 PM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Apr 6 2006, 9:17 ... Apr 6 2006, 10:39 PM I Shot JFK QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Apr 1 2006, 7:0... Apr 7 2006, 05:42 PM disco infiltrator It doesn't matter; no matter how much power yo... Apr 8 2006, 12:07 AM Acid Bath Slayer QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Apr 8 2006, 12... Apr 8 2006, 08:17 AM I Shot JFK QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Apr 8 2006, 6:0... Apr 8 2006, 09:31 AM disco infiltrator Well yea, that was my point...you can't make y... Apr 8 2006, 02:28 PM disco infiltrator Like, knowing that a certain team won wouldn't... Apr 19 2006, 10:15 PM |
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