The Problem of Free Will, A Theological Problem. Options

[NoSex]

Alright, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the theological Problem of Free Will. So, under common christian theolgy, God is described as being all-knowing (omniscient) and all powerful (omnipotent). Men are also described as having free will. This is at the heart of the reality of theological fatalism. Solving this issue is vital to christian theology as it becomes an inherent contradiction as well as threatening to the christian conception of salvation and damnation.

I hold that God's infallible foreknowledge makes impossible man's free will. If god knows the future, how can we choose our own path?

Discuss.

[twin__cinema]

Oh gosh... I used to have a really good explaination in my head for this when I was in my Philosphy of Religion class last fall. Hmmm. I'll try to explain best I can.

I myself am not a believer in "God", but here's a theory:
If "God" is indeed truely what is claimed, he IS omniscient. I don't think that really means that he knows exactly what you're going to do, with free will being involved. Think of it as a branching path. He can foresee all possibilities. Let's say you're walking down a path, and it forks into three smaller ones. God is fully aware of all of them. He provides free will, and allows you to choose. Every path leads you to a different life, filled with other choices. Perhaps he can't see what will happen in the far off future exactly, but only the possibilities and what comes with every choice.


I also read The Anti-Christ (Most of it, anyway. Just what I was required for my class). My opinion on Friedrich Nietzsche isn't exactly positive, nor is it negative. To me, Mr. Nietzsche seems more like an angry teenager in his mom's basement proclaiming how much everything sucks (who was actually a hermit living in the moutains somewhere in Europe. Same environment, really). If anything, he sounds like a total ignoramous ranting about everything under the sun. Once you kind of get to know his background, you understand him more. He isn't ignorant, but his father was a Lutheran Pastor, who died when Nietzsche was only 7. Like in many families, he was expected to follow in his father's footsteps because he was the oldest son. So, he followed by going to school to also become a Pastor. He soon dropped out and became an uber Atheist. Basically, he experienced Christianity from the inside out, so to speak. And he died of The Clap.

That's my little rundown on our friend Friedrich, for those who are ignorant. :]

When it came to his religious convictions, it seemed to have alot more to do with the Church ignoring the true "Jesus," and becoming a slave morality which was served to control and corrupt. I do not exactly disagree, not to say that I agree.

For the most part, he thought Jesus was a pretty dandy fellow. I don't think he really had anything against him, but it was more the religion aspect that he was against. He believed all Christians were "sheep", and going against typical human nature. Christianity is the exact opposite of what our nature is, and as humans, we are more aggressive, and we are for the most part, skeptics. People don't want to shut up and listen to someone tell them what to believe, submit, and have all these ideologies crammed into their craniums. No, that's not how we are. Religion is against what we are in every sense.

I don't know if I'd say slave "morality", but I think he's saying religion is a slave-like corruption of the mind and spirit. Religion forces you to submit to "faith", rather than something such as Secular Humanism (would that be considered a religion? I know most Secular Humanists are nontheists, but I don't know). Hmm.

Nietzsche is also a skeptic of the leaders of religions. He believes they are among the worst people on this planet. According to my philosophy teacher, Nietzche would rather chill with a child molester than the Pope any day. Haha. Anyway. He was a firm believer that most "higher ups"/teachers of religion abused their power to get ahead in the world, and anyone who would follow them are basically, well, their bitches. If a priest said to drink the poisoned Kool-Aid, the followers would be forced to do so, because they are "slaves to their faith".

Also, impending nihilism hasn't seemed to kick in yet, and no matter how much, "God is dead," religion lives on.

I don't really see why these two points are connected. Many people have Nihilistic views, so I wouldn't say it hasn't kicked in yet.

And the "God is dead" theory is pretty stupid. In order to free ourselves from religion, we must "kill God"? That doesn't seem very plausable. Maybe in our minds, we can "kill God" in a non-literal sense, but if he does in fact exist, we can't just erase him from our minds and call the guy dead. Nietzsche, you silly douche.

So, he was clearly wrong about alot of things concerning the not-so-distant developments of western society.

Not really. He was pretty correct on the fact that Western religion is based on Christanity, and is pretty closed minded to any other beliefs/faiths.

Hmm. My brain is soup. You'll hear more from me later.

[*mipadi*]

And the "God is dead" theory is pretty stupid. In order to free ourselves from religion, we must "kill God"? That doesn't seem very plausable. Maybe in our minds, we can "kill God" in a non-literal sense, but if he does in fact exist, we can't just erase him from our minds and call the guy dead. Nietzsche, you silly douche.
Not really. He was pretty correct on the fact that Western religion is based on Christanity, and is pretty closed minded to any other beliefs/faiths.

But Nietzsche didn't literally believe God was dead, nor did he literally believe anyone had killed Him or would kill Him. His statement merely means that the traditional concept of a god is no longer valid in today's world, or, more to the point, no one truly adheres to the concept anymore; meaning that no one really believes that there is an all-powerful god who created heaven and earth and directs us in our ways. Some people may buy into some religious concepts, and some people may pay lip service to a god, but no one truly follows the traditional concept of a divine being.

[twin__cinema]

But Nietzsche didn't literally believe God was dead, nor did he literally believe anyone had killed Him or would kill Him. His statement merely means that the traditional concept of a god is no longer valid in today's world...

Yeah, I suppose that's true, but my point was that just because you "kill" Him in your mind doesn't completely eliminate him from all existance. If there is in fact a God, and when we die, according to the Bible, he will be there to judge us. What I got from Nietzche's point was if you kill him from your mind, he will no longer exist. Maybe I took that the wrong way.

...no one really believes that there is an all-powerful god who created heaven and earth and directs us in our ways. Some people may buy into some religious concepts, and some people may pay lip service to a god, but no one truly follows the traditional concept of a divine being.

That's just Nietzche's cynical over-generalizating ways, and where I call bullshit. Devoted believers still remain, and few people are still genuinely following their faith.

Like I said, he resembles pissed off ignorant teenager.