Are you religous?, And Why? Options

[vash1530]

because of the recent debate i've been having in the "Jesus... is he Gay?" thread, i've decided to make a new thread so that I can argue eith ppl and not be off-topic. When anyone is ready, ill start the assault.

[pshaa.shauna]

vash----

To tell you the truth, athiesism is just as ridiculous as religion is. there is so many things both of them have not explained.

On the religious side, religion was in fact made by ancient people who needed to explain all of the miracuous things that were happening around them. How the sun came up, life grew, etc. Now that we can explain these things with science, some of the things in our "holy scripts" are wrong, but that's to be excepted. these texts were written by man, supposedly holy men, but man nonetheless.

On the other hand, science has prooved that there is no such thing as spontaneous cgeneration, so how do you explain how life was made in the first place? Plus, there are still many unexplained things on the planet, random miracles where people can see by being touched by a "healer" (granted, most of the time this is faked, but it has happened), "ghosts", "seerers". (Also, what I have listed could be classified as satanic in many religions, but the point still stands)

And again, is there is a higher being, I highly doubt any religion knows about it, there are so many, with so many contradictory beleifs, it's ridiculous. So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all.

[NoSex]

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]To tell you the truth, athiesism is just as ridiculous as religion is. there is so many things both of them have not explained.

All atheism is required to explain is why we should not believe in a God. And, that is an easy one, there is no reason to believe in a God in the first place. An athiest is not obligated to explain or justify anything aside from his lack of belief in a God in order for his atheism to remain rational.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]On the other hand, science has prooved that there is no such thing as spontaneous combustion, so how do you explain how life was made in the first place?

Spontaneous combustion is actually a reality. You may also know it as Spontaneous Human Combustion. It happens.

Anyways, I believe you were refering to spontaneous generation. Yes, spontaneous generation was debunked, for the most part, in 1859 by Louis Pasteur. However, this has very little to do with "how life was made in the first place."

This is an issue for science, but not so much for the atheist. The atheist simply does not believe in a God. How does the problem of the emergence of life challenge the idea that we have no reason to believe in God?

You have also failed to observe the exstensive studies in abiogenesis, the emergence of life from non-life, and the reality of virtual particles in the universe. Although spontaneous generation is not a reality, this does little to complicated the origin of life.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]Plus, there are still many unexplained things on the planet

Ok? Sure. We don't even understand how gravity exactly works. Now, how is this a serious argument against atheism? Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. All an atheist needs to do is justify being irreligious. Which, isn't hard.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]random miracles where people can see by being touched by a "healer" (granted, most of the time this is faked, but it has happened)

Uhhhmm? How do you know it has happened? Prove it to us.
Recreate it in a controled enviroment. Record it so we can all see. Give us all the data available surrounding the situation.
There is a reason no one has been able to do this, cause these things most likely do not truly happen.

As David Hume has always said, in any given situation where a "miracle" is claimed, there will always be more evidence that someone has simply lied, created a hoax, or hallucinated, rather than that the laws of the universe have overturned for a moment in time. As, we know that people lie, create elaborate hoaxes, and hallucinate. On the other hand, we have never documented the laws of the universe being overturned, and if we were to grant such an instance, what would become of scientifc vigor?

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM] "ghosts", "seerers". (Also, what I have listed could be classified as satanic in many religions, but the point still stands)

Again, prove it.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

Go take James Rani's million dollar challenege. You would be a first if you won.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all.

Ok. This has got to be the worst statement of them all.

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

So it is close-minded not to have a firm belief in something for which there is no proof?!

[pshaa.shauna]

All atheism is required to explain is why we should not believe in a God. And, that is an easy one, there is no reason to believe in a God in the first place. An athiest is not  obligated to explain or justify anything aside from his lack of belief in a God in order for his atheism to remain rational.

And a religious person has to only explain why they beleive as they do for them to remain rational. I stated it as irrational because vash---- seems to be under the impression that religion is ridiculous, but not taking in the flaws atheism has.

Spontaneous combustion is actually a reality. You may also know it as Spontaneous Human Combustion. It happens.

Anyways, I believe you were refering to spontaneous generation. Yes, spontaneous generation was debunked, for the most part, in 1859 by Louis Pasteur. However, this has very little to do with "how life was made in the first place."

On the contrary, Spontaneous Combustion has not been prooven, give me proof and I'll retract my statement but untill then, it's not possible.

And I did mean regeneration,sorry for that. But it has plenty to do with "how life started in the first place". If you are an athiest, you most likely beleive in evolution, unless you have some other unknown theory, because you aren't going to be belive Intellegent Design. So evolution states that every being evoled from another, and science has proven that billions of years ago, there was no life. Earth was a humongous ball of unihabital fire. So somehow, little tiny micro-organisms sprang to live, and no one knows how. It's unexplainable.

Ok? Sure. We don't even understand how gravity exactly works. Now, how is this a serious argument against atheism? Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. All an atheist needs to do is justify being irreligious. Which, isn't hard.

I'm not argueing against athiesm my dear, if you noticed, I also pointed out the flaws in religion. Religion was createed so primatives species had something to explain what went on around them, and now that we know (for the most part) we still have grown out of it. I'm simply stating both sides because many athiests tend to be arrogant, and think that science can explain what goe son. To be quite honest I am athiest.

Uhhhmm? How do you know it has happened? Prove it to us.

Again, prove it.

The point is you can't. Yes people lie, but people also tell the truth sometimes. We can't proove what they say is true, so we say that it isn't, but many people don't seem to realize that there are still many things that we can't proove, but that doesn't mean they aren't true.

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

So it is close-minded not to have a firm belief in something for which there is no proof?!

Okay so my point wasn't as clear as I thought it was, let me reiterate:

So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all, if you aren't willing to accept that what you belief doesn't explain anything.

Sorry for the confusion.

[NoSex]

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]And a religious person has to only explain why they beleive as they do for them to remain rational.

Granted, of course. However, a religious person has a greater amount of assumptions than an irreligious person. The burden of proof is much heavier on the religious individual. All an atheist has to justify is a lack of belief in God, which makes rather decent sense as we have little-to-no evidence of any religious claims. However, a religious individual must validate and make reasonable a great number of seemingly absurdist claims, ideas, and propositions.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]I stated it as irrational because vash---- seems to be under the impression that religion is ridiculous, but not taking in the flaws atheism has.

What exactly are the flaws of atheism?

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
On the contrary, Spontaneous Combustion has not been prooven, give me proof and I'll retract my statement but untill then, it's not possible.

It has not exactly been proven, however it has been demonstarted to be at least reasonably possible by the "wick theory" in which human fat, or other living fat cells, burn in a peculiar fashion.

However, most cases are just emphasized by an unknown source of ignition.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
And I did mean regeneration,sorry for that. But it has plenty to do with "how life started in the first place". If you are an athiest, you most likely beleive in evolution, unless you have some other unknown theory, because you aren't going to be belive Intellegent Design. So evolution states that every being evoled from another, and science has proven that billions of years ago, there was no life. Earth was a humongous ball of unihabital fire. So somehow, little tiny micro-organisms sprang to live, and no one knows how. It's unexplainable.

1. An atheist is not required to believe in evolution or any particular theory of the origin of life.
2. This does not threaten the original atheist proposition that "there is no good reason to believe in God."
3. Read about abiogenesis.

We can create the building blocks of life in a lab.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
The point is you can't. Yes people lie, but people also tell the truth sometimes. We can't proove what they say is true, so we say that it isn't, but many people don't seem to realize that there are still many things that we can't proove, but that doesn't mean they aren't true.

The burden of proof is still with those proposing a miracle.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
Okay so my point wasn't as clear as I thought it was, let me illiterate:

So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all, if you aren't willing to accept that what you belief doesn't explain anything.

I'm a rationalist. Of course I don't believe that what I believe can explain or does explain even half of everything.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
Sorry for the confusion.

Not a problem at all.