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Justice, morals, and fairness, How are they defined?
*mipadi*
post Dec 29 2005, 11:48 PM
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An interesting question occurred to me in a discussion with a friend today. He noted how he didn't like staying with his grandmother because she was old and couldn't keep her house clean, to which I jokingly replied that he should cane her to teach her a lesson. Of course, he responded that that would be immoral, which prompted the question: why would it be immoral?

The obvious response of "It's wrong to beat your grandmother" raises another issue: what is the definition of right and wrong? Fundamentally, the definition of right relies on a comparison to the definition of wrong; the definition of wrong relies on a comparison to the definition of right. The trouble, then, lies in the fact that the definitions are recursive.

Even so, the concept of justice and fairness seems to lie within each human. My friend accurately pointed out that many children learn the phrase "That's not fair!" long before they learn any concept of justice. Even before that, babies seem to have a sense of right and wrong. If you take a bottle from a baby, it will likely cry. I responded that this was the human will to survive in action--the baby knows the bottle gives it nourishment, thus keeping it alive, and cries because its source of nourishment is now gone. But what if you take a toy from a baby--will it not cry also? The baby, then, seems to exhibit a concept of fairness (although perhaps it could be argued that somehow, a sense of joy is necessary to survival, the toy brings joy, and thus, the crying is just another manifestation of the will to survive--I don't have the scientific evidence to back such a claim up).

Where does this sense of fairness in regards to property come from, then? I considered that maybe it is an example of evolution. People needed certain items to survive; when taken, they complained or fought back; thus, the stronger survived.

Such a concept can be applied to the example of murder. At first glance, would it not seem those without a predilection against killing others would survive? However, the answer is no. Back in the early days of humanity, only those who could form communities--or packs--could survive. A loner would be fodder for all sorts of wild creatures or dangerous situations. A murderer cannot be trusted by others, and likewise may not be inclined to trust others, and thus would be left on his own; thus, natural selection may have occurred.

But even these examples have merely scratched the surface? Where, then, does concern for others unconnected to ourselves--such as starving people in Africa--come from? Is this societal pressure? I think so, but then were does this come from? What made society display concern for others who have no relevance to its own survival? Is this another relic from the early hunter-gatherer days? Is it a fear than an injustice anywhere could easily occur here? Or is concern for other societies simply an extension of the basic moral principles of society that apply to itself? But if so, why does that extension occur, i.e. how does a society take moral principles based around its own survival and apply it to the survival of another largely unconnected society?

Furthermore, is the traditional concept of justice at all universal? Are there some societies in which babies don't cry when a bottle is taken, or murder is not considered to be unacceptable? If yes, from where do those concepts originate; if no, then we are back to our original question, where do our concepts of justice, fairness, and morality come from?
 
 
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flaymzofice
post Jan 1 2006, 09:47 PM
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In this, the 21st century, we are still divided into two main camps regarding the origins of our planet, a physical object we know to exist. Therefore to ask where justice, morals and fairness comes from would inevitably draw an less certain answer still, these being abstract concepts we cannot prove exist but for our actions which force their existence.

In law, there is legal justice and equitable justice. Legal justice is exercised according to precedence set by cases which came before, whilst equitable justice is practised at the judge's discretion.

Equity exists to ensure that which "fair and just; moral and ethical" (Hanbury & Martin Equity and Trusts , 16th ed., p1). Basically, it's to make sure people subject to the legal system are treated fairly.

The law evolved from the basic rules which governed small tribes and communities, the rules which allowed people to co-exist peacefully. It is the pursuit of peace which drives society's adherance to the law since injustice logically (though not necessarily) leads to anger and thus war.
This is not only unproductive but also hampers the [social] development and advancement of mankind, which, according Darwin's theory of evolution, is what all animals are ultimately programmed to do. Thus it could be said that the justice of origins can be found in ourselves and our pre-programmed instinct to further humanity, as efficiently as possible, i.e., peacefully.

Similarly, if you take a bottle from a baby, it is morally wrong because crying is a manifestation of two different intentions, which logically, but again not necessarily, leads to conflict. On a larger scale, this would be war, which could be seen as actively working against progression and thus morally wrong.

But of course, our morals are subject to our environment and upbringing and if you are taught that there is nothing wrong with taking a bottle away from a baby even if it cries, then clearly there will be moral distinctions with those who are taught it is wrong.

Fairness is a result of the concept of equality which is an intrinsic part of the make up of social beliefs. Without equality, what do we judge fairness by? Equality equates to comparison. It is only unfair if we are deprived of something someone else has.

Ultimately however, justice, morality and fairness are all co-dependant in terms of qualification. And all are at the discretion of the individual. It is our opinions which define our individual understanding of each concept, and our opinions are developed through society, which only teaches us these beliefs because we imposed them on ourselves (and thus society, or vice versa) through pre-determination. Thus rendering the origin of these concepts universal, if God did indeed make man equal.
 

Posts in this topic
mipadi   Justice, morals, and fairness   Dec 29 2005, 11:48 PM
vash1530   QUOTE  Justice   1. The quality of bein...   Dec 30 2005, 04:02 AM
not_your_average   vash, michael is challenging those very definition...   Dec 30 2005, 02:49 PM
vash1530   QUOTE(not_your_average @ Dec 30 2005, 2:49 PM...   Dec 31 2005, 03:25 AM
RiC3xBoy   My belief is that Morals tend to associate with th...   Dec 30 2005, 04:20 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(RiC3xBoy @ Dec 30 2005, 4:20 PM)Tough q...   Dec 30 2005, 05:49 PM
RiC3xBoy   I'm not fully understanding what you mean. Do ...   Dec 30 2005, 06:05 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(RiC3xBoy @ Dec 30 2005, 6:05 PM)I'm...   Dec 30 2005, 06:13 PM
disco infiltrator   Because he wants it. It's human instinct to fi...   Dec 30 2005, 07:27 PM
faithin_felix   wow i actually read the whole thing, first i would...   Dec 30 2005, 08:36 PM
The_AZN_Godfather   I'm not sure if I read that post right but... ...   Dec 30 2005, 09:51 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(The_AZN_Godfather @ Dec 30 2005, 9:51 P...   Dec 31 2005, 01:25 AM
RiC3xBoy   I think justice and fairness is universal, but in ...   Dec 31 2005, 03:09 AM
disco infiltrator   So don't just post them; debate about them. Co...   Jan 1 2006, 03:33 AM
vash1530   i did! read my original post!   Jan 1 2006, 03:55 AM
MF Doom   These ideals are very simple and easy to grasp but...   Jan 1 2006, 05:39 AM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(mipadi @ Dec 29 2005, 11:48 PM)But even...   Jan 1 2006, 04:11 PM
Spirited Away   whoopsy-daisy.   Jan 1 2006, 04:12 PM
flaymzofice   In this, the 21st century, we are still divided in...   Jan 1 2006, 09:47 PM
sporadic   Morals are decided by a community... How everyone ...   Jan 1 2006, 11:05 PM
MF Doom   QUOTE(sporadic @ Jan 2 2006, 12:05 AM)Morals ...   Jan 2 2006, 05:29 PM


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