kwanzaa Options

[*kryogenix*]

Do you view Kwanzaa as a real holiday, or a joke?

[illumineering]

I didn't say it was religious. However, the religion discourages celebrating other religious holidays at the time.

Huh? If it's not a religious celebration, this makes absloutely no sense. What is "the religion" refering to?

It's not a popularity poll. The statistic proves that the majority of African Americans do not think it is a holiday worth celebrating. When the group that is supposed to be celebrating the holiday refuses to celebrate it, you kinda have to question its validity.

Absolutely not. Its validity, as previously stated, has nothing to do with polls. The 6th commandment is Thou shalt not kill yet people support the "War on Terror." Polls and popular support are not necessarily an indication of validity or correctness.

If they have validity across all cultures, why call it the principles of "BLACKNESS?" If I believed in those principles, would that make me more black than someone who didn't believe in them?

Again, the principles are aimed at supporting that specific community. It's not about belief in the religious sense. It's about self-empowerment which, in the view of Dr. Karenga, is lost in the presence of western religion.

If you look closely, the principles coincide with marxist/socialist principles, which he picked up after his felony sentence.

Right. Examine his views of western religion and this makes sense. Why are you dwelling on his conviction? He served his time and paid his debt to society. George Bush was arrested for cocaine and was still elected president.

What do his degrees and other credentials mean? It doesn't change the fact that he tortured two people and was convicted of felony charges. The fact that he associates with the Million Man March (and Louis Farrakhan) doesn't improve my opinion of him.

I posted these in response to your fixation on Dr. Karenga's felony conviction. Since you feel it serves to invalidate his establishment of Kwanzaa, I posted them to offer a more well-rounded perspective of his actions and contributions to his community.

[*kryogenix*]

Huh?  If it's not a religious celebration, this makes absloutely no sense.  What is "the religion" refering to?

I mistyped. I mean celebration.

Absolutely not.  Its validity, as previously stated, has nothing to do with polls.  The 6th commandment is Thou shalt not kill yet people support the "War on Terror."  Polls and popular support are not necessarily an indication of validity or correctness.
Again, the principles are aimed at supporting that specific community.  It's not about belief in the religious sense.  It's about self-empowerment which, in the view of Dr. Karenga, is lost in the presence of western religion.

Of course not, but it doesn't mean the opposite is true either. The fact is, blacks are not identifying with the celebration.

Right.  Examine his views of western religion and this makes sense.  Why are you dwelling on his conviction?  He served his time and paid his debt to society.  George Bush was arrested for cocaine and was still elected president.

Karenga was influenced by marxist ideals during his sentence.

I posted these in response to your fixation on Dr. Karenga's felony conviction.  Since you feel it serves to invalidate his establishment of Kwanzaa, I posted them to offer a more well-rounded perspective of his actions and contributions to his community.

If being a militant is a contribution to society...

That's an argument from popularity. You are trying to discount the holiday by saying that it's not popular. So what? Popularity has nothing to do with the validity of any given proposition. The truth is not democratic.

See arguement above.

You're fighting a straw man argument now. You are misrepresenting the use of calling the principles "of blackness." People have already explained the significance of those words. Why are you ignoring that fact?

Because supposedly, anyone is allowed to celebrate Kwanzaa, yet the main principles were called the principles of blackness.

Argument from insult. You are attacking the man's character instead of investigating the holiday. Just because someone may be an "evil" man does not mean he can not be right. When debating, we oppose the argument not the arguer. It holds no value to attack a man's character when trying to discount his convictions. In this case, if you are trying to prove that Kwanzaa is somehow "invalid," you should focus on what exactly Kwanzaa is and what it teaches. Not, who teaches it, who practices it, or who doesn't teach or practice it.

The fact of the matter is Kwanzaa was not an African holiday. The kinara was not used in Africa. The person who made up Kwanzaa was an American black militant who wanted to spread his beliefs throughout the African American community.

  kwanzaa has always struck me as an artificial holiday, celebrated much for the same reason elementary schools celebrate black history month.

most of us learn about kwanzaa in school, right?

most often taught to validate the teaching of other holidays, and also as a sort of political/emotional handout to blacks, saying "look! we're recognizing something of yours."

and the actual holiday itself- it seems to be simply a meld of 'commercialized christmas' and haunakah.

the smell of artificial lingeres strong.

I agree.