running?, does it work? Options

[x1_krazie_ladie]

uh...so i heard like running helps u gets abs? i dont know but you see i'm one of those lazy ppl who just spends time on the computer all the time .. and the weather in vancouver is getting really cold...so can any1 have any good but not really hard to do excercises that i can flatten my tummy? my tummy's getting bigger and bigger cuz of the lack of excercise i get and all that junk food i eat ...and it'd be cool if some1 can suggest a way for me to stop eating food other then breakfast lunch afterschool snack and dinner

sorry if there's one like this already

[tequila_sky]

my problem zone is my stomach so I am on a diet which is for pple with my shape. Mainly you get rid of the red meats, fats. Eat lots of fibre- bread (brown one) pasta, etc. Replace meats with tofu and have lots of fruit, veg. The usual. I also think you should do running, or static bike, or jumping rope. (all help tpo get rid of extra fat)(I run in place) If u like you can go to www.self.com they have lots of abs excercises with pics and all. I read its not quantity but quality. Many have told me Pilates worked for them to get a flat belly. ::good luck::

[x1_krazie_ladie]

alrighty...hmm..so crunches are like half sit ups right? but then when i do sit ups my feet/legs move and i have to have some weight on it like i put my feet under my bed...cuz its really low like 5 cm above ground or so? does that affect getting abs? and also isnt crunches only for the upper abs? what about the lower abs?

[CrookedCriticism]

alrighty...hmm..so crunches are like half sit ups right? but then when i do sit ups my feet/legs move and i have to have some weight on it like i put my feet under my bed...cuz its really low like 5 cm above ground or so? does that affect getting abs? and also isnt crunches only for the upper abs? what about the lower abs?

there's no such thing as lower abs. The abs are one muscle and it contracts as a whole.

To get a flat stomach you need to EAT HEALTHY and do some form of cardio at least 3xs a week. You can't spot reduce fat, you have to get rid of it all of your body, so hundreds of crunches a day wont help. Your abs are like any other muscle and need at least 2 days of rest before you work them again.

[Spirited Away]

there's no such thing as lower abs.  The abs are one muscle and it contracts as a whole.  

To get a flat stomach you need to EAT HEALTHY and do some form of cardio at least 3xs a week.  You can't spot reduce fat, you have to get rid of it all of your body, so hundreds of crunches a day wont help.  Your abs are like any other muscle and need at least 2 days of rest before you work them again.

Um there are the transversus abdominus, external oblique muscles, rectus abdominus, and internal oblique muscles. These make up your Abdominal Muscles. Though it's true that you cannot spot reduce fat, there are exercises that can strengthen all four muscle groups, but that does not mean any one exercise can work all four groups, a few may do (Eg, crunches).

nope, it's one muscle, you can't stimulate part of a muscle without stimulating the whole thing.

And, yes, there are such things as lower, upper and oblique abdominal muscles.
Neurologists and kinesthislogists would agree.

[CrookedCriticism]

Um there are the transversus abdominus, external oblique muscles, rectus abdominus, and internal oblique muscles. These make up your Abdominal Muscles. Though it's true that you cannot spot reduce fat, there are exercises that can strengthen all four muscle groups, but that does not mean any one exercise can work all four groups, a few may do (Eg, crunches).
And, yes, there are such things as lower, upper and oblique abdominal muscles.
Neurologists and kinesthislogists would agree.

can you name the lower abs, or point it out on an anatomy chart for me please? And the obliques are a totally different muscle...

[Spirited Away]

can you name the lower abs, or point it out on an anatomy chart for me please?  And the obliques are a totally different muscle...

1) Ab muscles below the navel work are generally called 'lower abs'. Any more questions?
2) Here's one of my own: how are external/internal obliques totally different when they are part of four groups that make the abdominal muscles? That's what I learned in anatomy and physiology and from my personal trainer, though I could be wrong.

[CrookedCriticism]

1) Ab muscles below the navel work are generally called 'lower abs'. Any more questions?
2) Here's one of my own: how are external/internal obliques totally different when they are part of four groups that make the abdominal muscles? That's what I learned in anatomy and physiology and from my personal trainer, though I could be wrong.

1. I was looking for a scientific name. The rectus abdomins make up both the upper and lower portion of the stomach...

2. They are not part of the rectus abdominis is what i'm saying.

Heres an anatomy chart, as you can see their are no lower abs, it's all the rectus abdomins.

[Spirited Away]

1. I was looking for a scientific name.  The rectus abdomins make up both the upper and lower portion of the stomach...

2. They are not part of the rectus abdominis is what i'm saying.

Heres an anatomy chart, as you can see their are no lower abs, it's all the rectus abdomins.
http://www.ifafitness.com/book1/anatomy.gif

1) Why would there be a specified scientific name when professionals and highly educated men and women will understand what parts of the body you're referring to when you say "lower abs"? If you're still doubting this, go talk to a kinesthislogists or a certified personal trainer who are, most likely, the first ones to coin the term. Again, I took college A and P, I know what and where the 'rectus abdominus' is, but the LOWER muscles are WIDELY known as the 'lower abs". Thus the "lower abs" do exists because they would be the lower parts of the rectus abdominus (ie muscles below the navel).

2) Um, the rectus adominus does not make up your abdominal muscles on their own and we are talking about abdominal muscles as a whole, not just the rectus abdominus. And no, you said and I quote "the abs are one muscle" which is very misleading. It's consisted of four groups of muscles that includes the obliques.

[CrookedCriticism]

1) Why would there be a specified scientific name when professionals and highly educated men and women will understand what parts of the body you're referring to when you say "lower abs"? If you're still doubting this, go talk to a kinesthislogists or a certified personal trainer who are, most likely, the first ones to coin the term. Again, I took college A and P, I know what and where the 'rectus abdominus' is, but the LOWER muscles are WIDELY known as the 'lower abs". Thus the "lower abs" do exists because they would be the lower parts of the rectus abdominus (ie muscles below the navel).

2) Um, the rectus adominus does not make up your abdominal muscles on their own and we are talking about abdominal muscles as a whole, not just the rectus abdominus. And no, you said and I quote "the abs are one muscle" which is very misleading. It's consisted of four groups of muscles that includes the obliques.

1. How would there not be a scientific name for it? You know why don't you, because it's all the rectus abdomins. I know a someone who's studying kinesiology who posts on another forum and he strongly agrees that the their are no such things as lower abs. Certified personal trainer? What makes you so sure they know what they're talking about. It would really depend on their certificate and how much they actually know, they could be feeding you a bunch of bull and you wouldn't know it.

2. I was just taking about the rectus abdomins being one muscle. The obliques and the rectus abdomins are not the same muscle, that's what i'm trying to say.

Heres some stuff to read.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/modules.php?na...=article&sid=42

http://exrx.net/WeightTraining/Myths.html#anchor7441959

and heres a quote to chew on...

"Do you know anything about physiology and how the human body works? If you did, then you would know that you can not shape a muscle. Rectus abdominus has an insertion point at the crest of the pubis, and three portions of unequal size into the cartilages of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ribs. So when the muscle contracts, it contracts as a whole. You cant contract the lower or upper more than the other."

Thats not saying you shouldnt do different exercises.. but you CANT "build your lower abs".

[Spirited Away]

1. How would there not be a scientific name for it?  You know why don't you, because it's all the rectus abdomins.  I know a someone who's studying kinesiology who posts on another forum and he strongly agrees that the their are no such things as lower abs.  Certified personal trainer?  What makes you so sure they know what they're talking about.  It would really depend on their certificate  and how much they actually know, they could be feeding you a bunch of bull and you wouldn't know it.

2. I was just taking about the rectus abdomins being one muscle.  The obliques and the rectus abdomins are not the same muscle, that's what i'm trying to say.

Heres some stuff to read. 

http://www.ironmagazine.com/modules.php?na...=article&sid=42

http://exrx.net/WeightTraining/Myths.html#anchor7441959

and heres a quote to chew on...

"Do you know anything about physiology and how the human body works? If you did, then you would know that you can not shape a muscle. Rectus abdominus has an insertion point at the crest of the pubis, and three portions of unequal size into the cartilages of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ribs. So when the muscle contracts, it contracts as a whole. You cant contract the lower or upper more than the other."

Thats not saying you shouldnt do different exercises.. but you CANT "build your lower abs".

1) Here's something for you to gnaw on, it's fine with me if you don't take my word it, but please go talk to actual kinesthislogists. I'm not pulling this information out of my ass, you know? What part of "coining" a term don't you understand? It's a 'lingo' to describe the lower rectus abdominus. Whether or not you can work it is something beyond me to cover. Here, if you want to show internet sources, I can do that, too, so please check the end of this post for the 5+ sources that say otherwise—lower abs wise—about your own sources. Thanks. Oh about my Personal Trainers. Would you like me to post credentials? I can take pictures of their list of credentials, it's posted on the wall of my YMCA's Wellness Center. Though, I'd have to cross out their names, privacy reasons, you understand. Well, I guess I can go ahead and tell them what I'm doing so I can quote them with names. Whatever you'd like.

2) That's nice and all, but what you said, and I already quoted you once but here it is "the abs are one muscle". Maybe it would have been more clear had you said the rectus abdominus is one muscle. I would have agreed then with no qualms.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/training...-leg-raises.htm -exercises for the lower abs.
http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/...itness_tip.html- books about hitting the lower abs.
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/rockie5.htm - "The abdominal region is composed of the upper and lower abs, as well as the obliques"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crunch_%28exercise%29-wikipedia talks about reverse crunches work the lower abs.
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0689.htm-researchers will study the amount of activity in the upper, lower, and oblique muscles...
http://www.cbn.com/700club/Guests/Bios/David_Hawk062205.asp-CBN. You know, the TV station. Haha, kind of weird that they have abs exercise tips, but there they are.

Ah, this is getting old. It's fine if you don't agree. Terms are just terms to me.

[CrookedCriticism]

1) Here's something for you to gnaw on, it's fine with me if you don't take my word it, but please go talk to actual kinesthislogists. I'm not pulling this information out of my ass, you know? What part of "coining" a term don't you understand? It's a 'lingo' to describe the lower rectus abdominus. Whether or not you can work it is something beyond me to cover. Here, if you want to show internet sources, I can do that, too, so please check the end of this post for the 5+ sources that say otherwise—lower abs wise—about your own sources. Thanks. Oh about my Personal Trainers. Would you like me to post credentials? I can take pictures of their list of credentials, it's posted on the wall of my YMCA's Wellness Center. Though, I'd have to cross out their names, privacy reasons, you understand. Well, I guess I can go ahead and tell them what I'm doing so I can quote them with names. Whatever you'd like.

2) That's nice and all, but what you said, and I already quoted you once but here it is "the abs are one muscle". Maybe it would have been more clear had you said the rectus abdominus is one muscle. I would have agreed then with no qualms.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/training...-leg-raises.htm -exercises for the lower abs.
http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/...itness_tip.html- books about hitting the lower abs.
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/rockie5.htm - "The abdominal region is composed of the upper and lower abs, as well as the obliques"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crunch_%28exercise%29-wikipedia talks about reverse crunches work the lower abs.
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0689.htm-researchers will study the amount of activity in the upper, lower, and oblique muscles...
http://www.cbn.com/700club/Guests/Bios/David_Hawk062205.asp-CBN. You know, the TV station. Haha, kind of weird that they have abs exercise tips, but there they are.

Ah, this is getting old. It's fine if you don't agree. Terms are just terms to me.

You do realize that there is no scientific reasoning to the links you posted. Did you even read the links I posted? They state that there are no such things as lower abs and how your rectus abdominis is ONE MUSCLE, YOU CANT CONTRACT PART OF THE MUSCLE WITHOUT CONTRACTING THE WHOLE THING. And to the EMG thing, the rectus abdominus can contract differently depending on the movement. It can contract from top to bottom or from bottom to top; the whole muscle is still contracting though.

REMEBER THIS QUOTE:

"Do you know anything about physiology and how the human body works? If you did, then you would know that you can not shape a muscle. Rectus abdominus has an insertion point at the crest of the pubis, and three portions of unequal size into the cartilages of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ribs. So when the muscle contracts, it contracts as a whole. You cant contract the lower or upper more than the other."

Here it is again just in case you missed it.

"Do you know anything about physiology and how the human body works? If you did, then you would know that you can not shape a muscle. Rectus abdominus has an insertion point at the crest of the pubis, and three portions of unequal size into the cartilages of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ribs. So when the muscle contracts, it contracts as a whole. You cant contract the lower or upper more than the other."

[Spirited Away]

You do realize that there is no scientific reasoning to the links you posted.  Did you even read the links I posted?  They state that there are no such things as lower abs and how your rectus abdominis is ONE MUSCLE, YOU CANT CONTRACT PART OF THE MUSCLE WITHOUT CONTRACTING THE WHOLE THING.  And to the EMG thing, the rectus abdominus can contract differently depending on the movement. It can contract from top to bottom or from bottom to top; the whole muscle is still contracting though.

REMEBER THIS QUOTE:

"Do you know anything about physiology and how the human body works? If you did, then you would know that you can not shape a muscle. Rectus abdominus has an insertion point at the crest of the pubis, and three portions of unequal size into the cartilages of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ribs. So when the muscle contracts, it contracts as a whole. You cant contract the lower or upper more than the other."

Here it is again just in case you missed it.

"Do you know anything about physiology and how the human body works? If you did, then you would know that you can not shape a muscle. Rectus abdominus has an insertion point at the crest of the pubis, and three portions of unequal size into the cartilages of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ribs. So when the muscle contracts, it contracts as a whole. You cant contract the lower or upper more than the other."

What is the source to your quote? I mean, "can't" is spelled "cant", unless that's a mistake on your part, it doesn't seem credible.

Hmm, it's nice of you to say there's no scientific reasoning behind all those articles. Why don't you go challenge them? And for the last time, the lower abs is simply an everday term to describe the lower rectus abdominus is what I'm saying. If you want to say that mouthful when you talk to people, be my guest. The only thing I thought you really screwed up on was saying "the abs are one muscle", otherwise, you can call the lower abs anything you'd like.

[CrookedCriticism]

What is the source to your quote? I mean, "can't" is spelled "cant", unless that's a mistake on your part, it doesn't seem credible.

that's funny, cause you spell kinesiologist "kinesthislogists"... so maybe I shouldn't believe anything you posted. And it came from a well educated person that posts on another message board I visit. I didn't know you had to have a degree in english to know about physiology .

Why don't you go challenge them?

I did challenge them with all the information I posted, why don't you challenge my posts and links?

And for the last time, the lower abs is simply an everday term to describe the lower rectus abdominus is what I'm saying

And I'm saying there's no such thing as "lower abs" it's all the rectus abdominis. Once again look at the anatomy chart. Look at where it's pointing at, why is there no arrow pointed at the lower midsection, because it's all one muscle.

you can call the lower abs anything you'd like.

Alright I'll call it the rectus abdominis cause that's what it is.

Oh, and I didn't screw up when I said the abs are one muscle, usually when people speak about the abs they are talking about the rectus abdominis, and that's what I was talking about. People understood what I meant hopefully. When people say they need to work on their "abs" chances are their talking about the rectus abdomins and not the obliques.

[Spirited Away]

that's funny, cause you spell kinesiologist "kinesthislogists"...  so maybe I shouldn't believe anything you posted.  And it came from a well educated person that posts on another message board I visit.  I didn't know you had to have a degree in english to know about  physiology  . 

Well, that's coming from me, someone who's been called a fob more than once on the forum. I take full responsibility. As for your source, he/she can't say the same, I don't think, unless you mean to say the same about your source. Hmm, I do not doubt that he/she is educated, but in what, may I ask? My sources are well educated, fully certified in their professions. No, you certainly do not need an English degree and you missed the point. I had not known that you quoted from someone who wrote in another forum and thought that you quoted from a site. That's why I originally asked for the source that you quoted.

I did challenge them with all the information I posted, why don't you challenge my posts and links?

What information? You posted links. I posted links. Information indeed. I simply disagree that you rule out calling the lower rectus abdominus lower abs. They're one and the same to me and so many others. You're the one taking this vernacular term as an insult. Actually, which forum did you say your source posted in? I should like to bring this to his/her attention and see what he/she has to say.

And I'm saying there's no such thing as "lower abs" it's all the rectus abdominis.  Once again look at the anatomy chart.  Look at where it's pointing at, why is there no arrow pointed at the lower midsection, because it's all one muscle.
Alright I'll call it the rectus abdominis cause that's what it is.
Oh, and I didn't screw up when I said the abs are one muscle, usually when people speak about the abs they are talking about the rectus abdominis, and that's what I was talking about.  People understood what I meant hopefully.  When people say they need to work on their "abs" chances are their talking about the rectus abdomins and not the obliques.

I'm saying that it's just a colloquial term coined by professionals in their trade. Don't take it seriously. I know the anatomy chart, having taken college A and P before, and I know exactly what you mean by the rectus abdominus, but that alone does not define "abdominal muscles". Look at the anatomy chart yourself. Obliques count. Since you're so in tuned with using the full scientific names, it's rather lame to accuse me of wrongness for using 'lower abs' when you're in the wrong for limitting abdominal muscles to the 'rectus abdominus'. After all, people would understand what I mean by 'lower abs' just as well.

Ah, I'll leave the controversy of 'lower abs' to the professionals. You and your source can make peace with other well-educated folks who do use the term 'lower abs' on your own time. But one thing is sure, obliques are part of the abdominal muscles.

[CrookedCriticism]

Obliques count. Since you're so in tuned with using the full scientific names, it's rather lame to accuse me of wrongness for using 'lower abs' when you're in the wrong for limitting abdominal muscles to the 'rectus abdominus'.

it is wrong for you to use the term lower abs though, since there is no such thing . I'm not forgetting the obliques, I 'm just not talking about them...

Oh and the website is www.ironmagazine.com/forums a member called PreMier, and also you might want to PM CowPimp, P-funk, and Robert DiMaggio (wrote one of the articles I posted).

[Spirited Away]

it is wrong for you to use the term lower abs though, since there is no such thing   . I'm not forgetting the obliques, I 'm just not talking about them...

There is such a thing as 'lower abs'. It describes the lower part of the rectus abdominus. It's there. You can touch it physically. Touch it yourself. What do you mean you're not talking about the obliques? You said "abs muscles". Obliques are part of the "abs muscles".

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Nov 5 2005, 12:24 AM

[CrookedCriticism]

There is such a thing as 'lower abs'. It describes the lower rectus abdominus. It's there. You can touch it physically. Touch it yourself. What do you mean you're not talking about the obliques? You said "abs muscles". Obliques are part of the "abs muscles". 

There is no such thing as lower abs. When you touch the part below the navel that is still the same muscle. When I say abs I usually am talking about the rectus abdominis, when I'm talking about the obliques I'll say the obliques. damn, how many times do I have to reapeat my self. lol. Anyways, I edited my post before this one. Check it out.

[Spirited Away]

There is no such thing as lower abs.  When you touch the part below the navel that is still the same muscle.  When I say abs I usually am talking about the rectus abdominis, when I'm talking about the obliques I'll say the obliques.  damn, how many times do I have to reapeat my self.  lol.  Anyways, I edited my post before this one.  Check it out.

And God, how many times do I have to tell you, it's a term to for the same thing! People say reverse crunches emphasize the lower abs. It simply means, while the whole rectus abdominus is contracting, the lower parts of it is doing more emphasized in the crunch. Thus, the term simply means the lower rectus abdominus is emphasized. What part of this don't you understand? A term! A term to describe a longer scientific name. A term!

Again, if they want to challenge this, simply post here. I ask that you gain their attention since you quoted them. I'll talk to at least two trainers, post their names and credentials if need be, even pictures for you. How's that?

And even before I resort to that. Men's Health Magazine, I'm sure you've heard of it, does not disagree to use the term 'lower abs'. Check out some of the articles. If you still disagree, take it out with Men's Health Magazine.

"Contracting the lower abs activates muscles that are attached to the spine. This makes your core (your abdominal and spinal structures) more stable. "When the brain senses that the core is stable, it allows for optimal recruitment of the muscles that are most associated with producing the movement," Corn says. So pushups and crunches can be done more effectively to work the targeted muscles while reducing your risk of injury."[1] It's one of many, I assure you.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Nov 5 2005, 01:02 AM

[CrookedCriticism]

And God, how many times do I have to tell you, it's a term to for the same thing! People say reverse crunches emphasize the lower abs. It simply means, while the whole rectus abdominus is contracting, the lower parts of it is doing more emphasized in the crunch. Thus, the term simply means the lower rectus abdominus is emphasized. What part of this don't you understand? A term! A term to describe a longer scientific name. A term!

How is it a term for the same thing when lower abs dont event exist? Yes, uneducated people say reverse crunches empasize the lower abs. You can't contract the lower abs since it's all part of the rectus abdominis, so IT CONTRACTS AS A WHOLE!

Again, if they want to challenge this, simply post here. I ask that you gain their attention since you quoted them. I'll talk to at least two trainers, post their names and credentials if need be, even pictures for you. How's that?

lol, why dont you go over there? You can talk to as many trainers as you want, and I don't care what they look like. What do looks have to do with a educaton?

"When the brain senses that the core is stable, it allows for optimal recruitment of the muscles that are most associated with producing the movement," Corn says. So pushups and crunches can be done more effectively to work the targeted muscles while reducing your risk of injury."[1]

There is something called proprioception. Look it up, this has to do with the reverse crunch thing you posted to...

[Spirited Away]

How is it a term for the same thing when lower abs dont event exist?  Yes, uneducated people say reverse crunches empasize the lower abs.  You can't contract the lower abs since it's all part of the rectus abdominis, so IT CONTRACTS AS A WHOLE!
lol, why dont you go over there?  You can talk to as many trainers as you want, and I don't care what they look like.  What do looks have to do with a educaton?
There is something called proprioception.  Look it up, this has to do with the reverse crunch thing you posted to...

I really don't see how you can lable someone whose article gets in Men's Health uneducated. I also don't get how you don't understand something as simple as terminology and then call others uneducated. Since it seems the only thing you have to back you up is this vague 'source' and what I have to back up my terminology are nationally distributed magazines and real life professional trainers. Even though you, who's probably still a senior in high school, may think them uneducated, their credentials and training show otherwise. And once again you missed the obvious. The pictures would prove that they're real, with real names and real credentials.

How about you ask your source this question for me: "is not the 'lower abs' a term to describe the ab muscles that are below the navel line?'. Emphasize 'term to describe, if you must, to get it through his/her/it's head. We'll see what he/she/it has to say. Thank you.

By the way, I don't see how you can even bring the word 'uneducated' into this discussion seeing how the sources I gave all have credentials that can easily be checked. And it's rather an imature way to indirectly call me uneducated. I am a third year college student at the University of Houston-Main working on two bachelors, by the way. That may not mean much to a senior in high school (sarcasm), but it does mean that my education exceeds yours. Please refrain from insults, direct or indirect, that have no bearing.