growing up Christian Options

[eunie03]

I've lived a pretty dogmatic life. I haven't known much else. I started talking to a friend who's a philosophy major, and he up and tells me he thinks we just disappear after this. We have no soul, no spirit. We just live and die, and decompose. Like we never existed.

It's kind of pointless then. To live a Christian life.

I've been trying to get away from it since the end of high school. Christianity, I mean. But no matter how hard I try, it's so hard for me to believe that this is it. That there's no heaven or hell. Then I think about all the years I've wasted going to church and essentially just talking to the ceiling in my room.

It's just as easy for me to doubt it all.

Anyway, the point of my topic. If you've grown up in a church, you've probably noticed how much stronger the fire is in the newborn Christian. Growing up with it... it just makes everything mundane and routine. Have you ever denounced Christianity, just so you can have that newborn fire? Do you think it's a sin? To want to experience the world and gain some sort of insight before blindly following the faith?

[dahoonpride]

i really don't wanna sound arrogant or offensive, but if i have a trace of it, plz understand...i'm just trying to figure some stuff out.

if you so believe that there is no god, that there's nothing after life, and that science explains everything. plz explain to me then how you were created, why you even bother with morality (cuz you won't be judged about your wrong), and how u think the world was created with scientific explanations. how the world EVOLVED from absolute nothing. it's kinda hard to belive that NOTHING...just turned into something all of a sudden. doesn't matter how many billions year back. it was still NOTHING.

[eunie03]

if you so believe that there is no god, that there's nothing after life, and that science explains everything.  plz explain to me then how you were created, why you even bother with morality (cuz you won't be judged about your wrong), and how u think the world was created with scientific explanations.  how the world EVOLVED from absolute nothing.  it's kinda hard to belive that NOTHING...just turned into something all of a sudden.  doesn't matter how many billions year back.  it was still NOTHING.

Why do we deal with morality? Because I don't know. Maybe people are just inherently good creatures. I'd like to believe that, but I don't know if I'm just being naiive.

You're right, science at this point doesn't have much of a stand when it comes to creation. But there is still a sperm and an egg that combine to form a human being. That's science, not God. And not to be confrontational, but even in Christian beliefs, nothing did turn into something all of the sudden.

It was then that I realized that it is purely human arrogance to say that we, as a species, are too "beautifully created" to cease to exist upon death. For better or for worse, I believe that is what happens: one dies, one rots, one turns to earth. And that's that. It sounds like a sad way to live one's life, but I realized something else: when one is dead, one won't care about one's fate; and even though his friends may be terribly upset, at least they are still living. In was at this point that I decided that the key to happiness and balance in life is not to live so one can get into a mythical heaven, but rather, to live so one makes the most of everyday, and grows and matures as a person as much as one can.

Another deciding factor was in looking at the world around me. I decided that if I were to buy into the idea of a deity, then the god must be like the Judaist "jealous, vengeful god". I simply cannot buy into the fact that, given all the destruction in the world, God is an almight, benevolent force. I understand the idea of free will and can somewhat buy into that, but what about destruction such as the tsunami in the Indian Ocean last December, or Hurricane Rita? How does the concept of a benevolent god play into those disasters?

In the end, I've found that science is a much better explanation for the world around me. Science requires some faith, just like a religion, but at least concepts can be proven, I feel, rather than just relying on blind faith. I think it offers much better explanations than religion.

I like that first paragraph... Actually, the whole thing. Nicely said, and I see that. I just started this topic because I feel no matter what, it's like a shadow that follows me around. This so-called "faith". It's like a splinter in my mind I can't seem to get rid of. I can say "I don't believe in god, i don't believe in god" all I want. I still doubt my doubting.... does that make sense? I don't know. Sorry, I'm horrible at this writing business.

[dahoonpride]

Why do we deal with morality? Because I don't know. Maybe people are just inherently good creatures. I'd like to believe that, but I don't know if I'm just being naiive.

You're right, science at this point doesn't have much of a stand when it comes to creation. But there is still a sperm and an egg that combine to form a human being. That's science, not God. And not to be confrontational, but even in Christian beliefs, nothing did turn into something all of the sudden.
I like that first paragraph... Actually, the whole thing. Nicely said, and I see that. I just started this topic because I feel no matter what, it's like a shadow that follows me around. This so-called "faith". It's like a splinter in my mind I can't seem to get rid of. I can say "I don't believe in god, i don't believe in god" all I want. I still doubt my doubting.... does that make sense? I don't know. Sorry, I'm horrible at this writing business.

you're right about creationism also dealing with nothing turning into something. however, for me it seems a lot more believable that some type of powerful and eternal being or god created this incredibly complex and beautiful world. rather than believing that nothing....EVOLVED into something. especially something this complex.

there's also the flagellum theory that completely disproves slow mutation. cuz for the flagellum's motor to have worked and evolved....dozens of different working parts must have evolved all at the exact same time, to motorize and swirl its tail. cuz if just one of those things were missing, that flagellum motor would be useless. and since evolution states that orgamisms rid of things useless to them, then the flagellum motor would have gotten rid of the other few dozens of particles for the motor wouldn't have worked, and therefore gotten rid of cuz it was useless.

though science explains how things work....it doesn't explain how u became a person (this argument only works if you believe in souls), why you are existing, what is the point of our existence, what happens after our death, what is our purpose in life, how this world came to be (evolution is just a little too skimpy), etc etc.

to me those questions are very important cuz i base my lifestyle through those questions. you might not believe these things are not important, but then if you don't why even bother replying me or starting this topic. you're gonna die anyway and vanish forever...so why matter? what's the point of finding this out if in the end...you're still gonna die and cease to exist.

again...if i sound offensive...i'm really sorry. i'll put in a smily face just for you

[eunie03]

you're right about creationism also dealing with nothing turning into something.  however, for me it seems a lot more believable that some type of powerful and eternal being or god created this incredibly complex and beautiful world.  rather than believing that nothing....EVOLVED into something. especially something this complex. 

there's also the flagellum theory that completely disproves slow mutation.  cuz for the flagellum's motor to have worked and evolved....dozens of different working parts must have evolved all at the exact same time, to motorize and swirl its tail. cuz if just one of those things were missing, that flagellum motor would be useless.  and since evolution states that orgamisms rid of things useless to them, then the flagellum motor would have gotten rid of the other few dozens of particles for the motor wouldn't have worked, and therefore gotten rid of cuz it was useless.

though science explains how things work....it doesn't explain how u became a person (this argument only works if you believe in souls), why you are existing, what is the point of our existence, what happens after our death, what is our purpose in life, how this world came to be (evolution is just a little too skimpy), etc etc. 

to me those questions are very important cuz i base my lifestyle through those questions.  you might not believe these things are not important, but then if you don't why even bother replying me or starting this topic.  you're gonna die anyway and vanish forever...so why matter?  what's the point of finding this out if in the end...you're still gonna die and cease to exist.

again...if i sound offensive...i'm really sorry. i'll put in a smily face just for you

Haha... nah, nowhere near offensive. It's wonderful to ask questions and argue. I love it. Few people do these days.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, though. It's just hard to break out of routines. I want to see the world from another angle, so I can come back and have greater consistency in my Christian life. I want to believe it knowing I chose it. (I'm like.. repeating the same thing I wrote ten times over)

I'd like to believe we cease to exist after this, and you know, if you're gonna argue that humans have souls, how do you explain animals not having it? They were created just the same, weren't they? Why are humans so superior?

And I believe evolution and creationism works side by side, but that's another topic for another day :)

[dahoonpride]

Haha... nah, nowhere near offensive. It's wonderful to ask questions and argue. I love it. Few people do these days.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, though. It's just hard to break out of routines. I want to see the world from another angle, so I can come back and have greater consistency in my Christian life. I want to believe it knowing I chose it. (I'm like.. repeating the same thing I wrote ten times over)

I'd like to believe we cease to exist after this, and you know, if you're gonna argue that humans have souls, how do you explain animals not having it? They were created just the same, weren't they? Why are humans so superior?

And I believe evolution and creationism works side by side, but that's another topic for another day :)

see the world from another angle eh? well you've argued with the right person. you see...cuz of my parent's occupation i have lived abroad for most my life...(korea, California, europe (mostly germany), Middle East (bahrain, jordan, soon going to iraq). i have moved schools 10 times and lived in dorms since 8th grade. all this to say i have socialized, lived with, and met TONS of different types of ppl. Muslims, christians, buddhists, nihilits, atheists, confucionsists, goths, satanists, not-give-a-damnists, creationists, etc. i freaking lived with them. my point is out of all these people, i realized the people that were most truly happy, bright, moral, and hopeful were christians. Of course i'm not saying that everyone is. but most of them were....especially compred to the others. though you might argue "just cuz they're happy doesn't mean they're right"....i dunno, i think these qualities of happniess, and all the things listed above are very essential to human life.

though there might be millions of happy non-christians, how do they truly feel about the fact that there's nothing afterwards....that all that they did...everyone they loved, everthing that ever meant something to them would be all completely useless and gone once they've died. i dunno about you but i wouldn't be too happy. what's the point of saving the world from pollution if you're gonna die anyways. cuz you need to save the children? well they're gonna die anyways too and i won't matter jack to them once they've vanished from existence. what's the point of giving charity to orphanages when the orphans themselves are doomed with the same fate as the privelged us when we all die and vanish forever.

how do i explain that animals don't have souls? well do you believe in souls? My main reason i can give you is unfortunately biblical so it might not matter to you. God tells us to go save other people's from damnation and evangelize to them. never says anything about saving animals. Why are humans superior to animals? cuz in genesis it says God created Adam to rule his creation. to rule the animals and name them.

I believe humans are superior to animals cuz we have souls. but to explain to you that we have souls and animals don't in a secular way...well um...one weak argument is that people cloned animals. i refuse to believe that scientists can clone souls. but they have cloned healthy animals that live normally. therefore animals don't have souls. cuz if they could live without a soul, then why have a soul in the first place? cuz it's not like the soul's gonna go anywhere after death...(this of course is a non-biblical argument). do you understand what i'm getting at?
what's the point of having souls...if we could live without them...and even if we had them we wouldn't need it after we die. therefore animals don't have souls.
correct me if you think i'm wrong or weak at some areas. cuz i'm trying to figure this out myself too (except the biblical arguments kinda show it to me all).

by the way...u korean??? u look asian in your pic

[pshaa.shauna]

I believe humans are superior to animals cuz we have souls.

Humans are animals. We just have a more developed brain, we're more intellegent. Well, some of us are anyway. (Reference to other topics, ignore)

[dahoonpride]

Humans are animals. We just have a more developed brain, we're more intellegent. Well, some of us are anyway. (Reference to other topics, ignore)

aight sorry...let me rephrase that "humans are superior to OTHER animals because we have souls and they dont"

but this argument only works if you're either christian, buddhist, muslim, or any other religion or belief that humans have souls. i can disprove the argument that animals have souls too