is this suicide justified?, 85 year old man shoots himself Options

[illumineering]

An 85 year-old man committed suicide in my town last week. His wife died about 4 years ago from cancer. His daugher-in-law died 6 years ago from cancer. His son had a heart attack and died last week. His only living relatives were his only son's 2 children. They asked him to move near them so they could be closer together. They said they would build him a house near them in Philadelphia so they could take care of him.

After he buried his son, he took his dog to the kennel the next day, returned home, and shot himself.

Was this man justified in doing this? Is this an overreaction to a difficult situation that he could have accepted over time? Was he placing his grandchildren under a more difficult situation because he was feeling sorry for himself? When his granddaughter found out, she almost miscarried her baby because she was so emotional. Doesn't the bible say suicide is a sin? (He was a Christian.)

Because he didn't want to burden anyone and had lost everyone that he was close to, was his decision acceptable? Let's face it, the best years of his life were over and he has the right to decide when and how he should leave this earth. His actions should be respected.

I'm having a hard time resolving this. Although I can respect his right to decide what he wants to do with his life, I also feel that his actions were somewhat selfish.

What do you think?

[zepfel]

why should others decide when i end my life?

it's my life. i should be able to decide exactly what i do with it (you know i don't mean murdering people here).

"f**k everyone who says they love me, i don't care. i'm a rational person, and have come to the decision to end my life after weighing up the pros and cons. i have spent a substantial amount of time considering it, and feel it is the best option." yet you say i should not be able to do this?
if i wanted to quit my job (i'm not supporting anyone with the job, just me) and live on a desert island alone and secluded from everybody else for the rest of my life, i wouldn't be stopped. why can't my lifestyle choice be not to have a lifestyle?

[HiddenSmile]

why should others decide when i end my life?

it's my life. i should be able to decide exactly what i do with it (you know i don't mean murdering people here).

"f**k everyone who says they love me, i don't care. i'm a rational person, and have come to the decision to end my life after weighing up the pros and cons. i have spent a substantial amount of time considering it, and feel it is the best option." yet you say i should not be able to do this?
if i wanted to quit my job (i'm not supporting anyone with the job, just me) and live on a desert island alone and secluded from everybody else for the rest of my life, i wouldn't be stopped. why can't my lifestyle choice be not to have a lifestyle?

Well, you could say the same thing about murdering someone... "f**k everyone who says they love him, i don't care. i'm a rational person, and have come to the decision to end his life after weighing up the pros and cons. i have spent a substantial amount of time considering it, and feel it is the best option."

What are you talking about? The fact that he did it is the inhernt justification. That does not imply or suggest an endorsement of his action as I said before.

I didn't say it did, but what you ARE saying is that just because someone did something "inheritly justifies" it.

[zepfel]

Well, you could say the same thing about murdering someone... "f**k everyone who says they love him, i don't care. i'm a rational person, and have come to the decision to end his life after weighing up the pros and cons. i have spent a substantial amount of time considering it, and feel it is the best option."

but it's my life! you're missing the point here, i don't want to murder somebody, i want to take my own life! it's MINE. i want to die, i should be allowed to die.


hypothetically, of course.

[Olive]

my best friend is dead.

no not really, but he certainly wouldn't be able to get hold of a gun!
anyhow, unlike the situation which you use, i'm thinking more from a euthanasia/planned suicide point of view. i doubt you could ever change anybody's reaction to the situation you present.

im sorry to hear of your best friend. But in such issues of suicide, standing from someone else's shoes is more painful then the person committing the suicide – that is, to relieve themselves but to put their problems onto other people.

in all fairness, ive got decades worth of use out of this gift. it's not like i opened the package and said "that's horrible, i don't want it."

But as soon as suicide kicks in, thats exactly what it is - "horrible, dont want it". Life is so precious, yet so many abuse it by giving up.

i think after all that happened to him, he had the right to be selfish. he lost everything, everyone he cared about. he had no reason to stay alive.... maybe he wanted to be with his dead wife and son....is that really so selfish? to want to be with your loved ones again? i can honestly say that i would do the same thing.

Its selfish in the fact that he only worried about his own needs of comfort.
But death was not what he needed at that time, he needed psychiatric help to relieve his depressive behavior. It may sound harsh, but death isn’t a solution, it’s a chicken way out.

if killing yourself is murder,

then is mastrubation raping yourself?
is tattooing and piering tourturing yourself?
is eating forcefeeding yourself? 
is looking at yourself naked in the mirror child pornography?
is taking medication posioning yourself?

That’s exaggerated and very unreasonable, what exactly are you trying to imply? That killing yourself is like every other daily task you very well perform? If everyone thinks there is no murder in ‘killing yourself’, this world would be suicidal.

but it's my life! you're missing the point here, i don't want to murder somebody, i want to take my own life! it's MINE. i want to die, i should be allowed to die.
hypothetically, of course.

the keywords to the suicidal mind: “I, my, mine, me”
Of course you have every “control” over how you wish to kill yourself. I’m sure no body else matters. [/sarcasm]

[zepfel]

That’s exaggerated and very unreasonable, what exactly are you trying to imply? That killing yourself is like every other daily task you very well perform?

i think what they were trying to point out was that you cannot say that suicide is murder, but all other crimes, when applied to the self, are not bad in any way.
it has to either be: all normal crimes are still criminal when appied to the self
or
no crime is valid when applied to the self

If everyone thinks there is no murder in ‘killing yourself’, this world would be suicidal.

no, i very much doubt that. i'm sure that most people are not too bothered about the moral implications of suicide when they choose to commit it, if the government were to say "we support euthanasia" then there might be a few more people who might choose to die, but there certainly wouldn't be a landslide.

[Olive]

no, i very much doubt that. i'm sure that most people are not too bothered about the moral implications of suicide when they choose to commit it,  if the government were to say "we support euthanasia" then there might be a few more people who might choose to die, but there certainly wouldn't be a landslide.

if people were not "too bothered about the moral implications of suicide" why do they even consider it or to some, change their minds? Sucide is morally wrong as is any other form of killing without purpose but to comfort self-needs.

the only reason why any living thing is alive is to create more life.

it's a philosophical thing, you know.

if no one had sex, then humans would die out.  so sex is very important, and it's the purpose of life.  is to have sex and children andhave your children succeed.

Good Lord! No, you are ill-informed. I thought this topic was on suicide, not your views on life... However, life's purpose is NOT sex regardless. Of course, it is one aspect of life which can happen. I think you mean sex can fulfill your hormones rather than fulfilling an entire lifetime. There are people who have never had sex and still feel the need for suicide. Sex is significant to the life-cycle but it is not the purpose. Suicide on the other hand, violates both this "moral duty" and if you would like to discuss the philosophy of suicide, here is what Plato said about suicide: "cowardice or laziness undertaken by individuals too delicate to manage life's vicissitudes". I don't see where sex comes in.