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Electoral college, should it be eliminated?
sadolakced acid
post Nov 7 2004, 12:47 AM
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Should the electoral college be eliminated?

with it, a person could loose every state by 1 vote except california, and win california by a landslide and then loose the race.

with it, democrats in red states feel thier vote doesn't count, and republicans in blue states feel thier vote doesn't count.

if the electoral college were to be eliminated, then everyone's vote would count.
 
 
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sikdragon
post Jun 23 2005, 01:42 AM
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QUOTE
THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IS IMPORTANT

By Bob Ward

Editor of the Texas Journal

After every presidential election there is a cry to abolish the electoral college, and it will no doubt be louder and shriller after this one. We may be confronted with the reality, not just the "theoretical possibility" of a president who lost the popular vote and attained the office through the electoral college.

Should that occur, it will be the fourth time in our history and four times out of 52 elections is not bad. And none of them brought down the republic. It is certainly no basis for scrapping a system that has very important benefits.

In fact, it is being generous to critics of the electoral college to concede it has already happened three times. In reality it has only happened once. The first time a candidate became president without winning the popular vote was in 1824 when John Quincy Adams lost the popular vote to Andrew Jackson. But Adams lost the electoral college

vote as well. Because no candidate had an electoral college majority in that four man race, the decision was bucked to the U.S. House of Representatives which chose Adams. It was the House that put Adams into office, not the electoral college system which reflected the popular vote, as it usually does.

It supposedly happened again in 1876 when Rutherford B. Hayes became president after losing the popular vote to Samuel J. Tilden. But the consensus among historians is that the electoral votes were stolen. In Oregon, for example, the governor violated state law by disqualifying an elector and certifying one he chose himself.

The only real case of a discrepancy between the electoral and popular counts came in 1888 when Grover Cleveland lost his bid for re-election. During his first term, Cleveland managed to anger virtually every part of the country except the South. He alienated the Northeast by attempting to reduce tariffs. He angered Union Civil War veterans by vetoing their pensions and ordering the return of captured Confederate battle flags to the Southern states. He angered the West by vetoing legislation that would have furnished seed grain to Texas counties hit by drought.

Cleveland, despite his popular vote victory, carried only 18 states, all but two of them southern or border states. As a result, he lost the electoral vote to Benjamin Harrison. On that occasion, the electoral college saved the nation from being governed by a president with significant support in only one region.

In the current election, for example, we see Al Gore's support confined to the Northeast, Upper Midwest and the West Coast. By contrast, George W. Bush had the backing of the vast expanse of middle America including the plains states, the South and the Mountain West. Without the electoral college, these areas would have virtually no role in electing the President compared to the population heavyweights in the industrial Midwest and along the coasts.

Like the U.S. Senate, which has two members from each state regardless of population, the electoral college makes sure the big states don't eat the little states by guaranteeing each state at least three votes.

Because the Constitution requires an absolute majority of the electoral college, and not just a plurality, to be elected, we have never had a candidate decisively rejected by the American people who nevertheless slithers into office via the electoral college. Ordinarily, the electoral vote amplifies the popular vote.

One improvement might be to make the popular vote in each state binding on the electors or even to eliminate the electors completely and simply put the state's electoral total in the winner's column without the need for unfamiliar persons to cast that vote.

Because the electoral college preserves a lot of important interests including, the political identity of the states, it would be a serious mistake to abolish it just because it thwarts the legacy of Bill Clinton.
 

Posts in this topic
sadolakced acid   Electoral college   Nov 7 2004, 12:47 AM
pandamonium   hmm thats a good thought .. there were a lot of pe...   Nov 7 2004, 12:53 AM
kryogenix   QUOTE(pandamonium @ Nov 7 2004, 12:53 AM)hmm ...   Nov 7 2004, 09:50 AM
ComradeRed   The point of the electoral vote is to protect the ...   Nov 7 2004, 09:56 AM
kryogenix   QUOTE(ComradeRed @ Nov 7 2004, 9:56 AM)The po...   Nov 7 2004, 10:01 AM
ComradeRed   QUOTE(kryogenix @ Nov 7 2004, 10:01 AM)This w...   Nov 7 2004, 11:36 AM
sadolakced acid   how would they campain only in big cities? they...   Nov 7 2004, 01:25 PM
sikdragon   There wasnt a name switch but a support switch. Th...   Nov 7 2004, 01:33 PM
pandamonium   QUOTE(kryogenix @ Nov 7 2004, 9:50 AM)You rea...   Nov 7 2004, 01:56 PM
ComradeRed   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Nov 7 2004, 1:25 PM)h...   Nov 7 2004, 02:06 PM
anger_is_my_friend   well i still think it's unfair for a republica...   Nov 7 2004, 03:32 PM
kryogenix   I wonder what minimum GPA you need to get into ele...   Nov 7 2004, 03:47 PM
gerundio   Thank God for the electoral college. Like the Dai...   Nov 7 2004, 04:18 PM
sadolakced acid   do you know why the founding fathers created the e...   Nov 7 2004, 04:57 PM
ComradeRed   The electoral college was created to protect inter...   Nov 7 2004, 05:18 PM
waccoon   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Nov 7 2004, 4:57 PM)d...   Nov 7 2004, 05:25 PM
sadolakced acid   APUSH, people. the electoral college was creat...   Nov 7 2004, 06:48 PM
ComradeRed   So why, then, did they proportionally give MORE vo...   Nov 7 2004, 06:51 PM
sadolakced acid   because they didn't think it out clearly. i...   Nov 7 2004, 07:08 PM
gerundio   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Nov 7 2004, 7:08 PM)i...   Nov 7 2004, 07:28 PM
picaso_smile   If it isn't broke, don't fix it.   Nov 16 2004, 07:06 PM
ComradeRed   QUOTE(gerundio @ Nov 7 2004, 7:28 PM)Very tru...   Nov 16 2004, 07:08 PM
Kriegsgefangene   Man.. our 'Democracy' rocks my socks. W...   Dec 11 2004, 11:19 PM
Kriegsgefangene   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Nov 7 2004, 6:48 PM)A...   Dec 11 2004, 11:21 PM
Sumiaki   Electoral college is fine. It gives all states equ...   Dec 11 2004, 11:30 PM
simx   QUOTE(Sumiaki @ Dec 11 2004, 11:30 PM)Elector...   Jun 14 2005, 11:09 PM
aznxdreamer   yes. i dont see the point of electoral colleges. t...   Dec 14 2004, 06:22 PM
luvnspecialsaus   I say yes. The electoral college was originally c...   Dec 16 2004, 04:40 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(luvnspecialsaus @ Dec 16 2004, 5:40 PM)...   Jun 13 2005, 04:06 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(mipadi @ Jun 13 2005, 4:06 PM)That...   Jun 13 2005, 11:20 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 14 2005, 12:20 AM...   Jun 13 2005, 11:43 PM
sammi rules you   i do think the electoral college should be elimina...   Jun 14 2005, 11:01 AM
sadolakced acid   i have only spent 3 days of my life in a blue stat...   Jun 14 2005, 12:29 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 14 2005, 1:29 PM)...   Jun 14 2005, 12:33 PM
sammi rules you   i feel your pain justin! i spent years 0-6 of ...   Jun 14 2005, 01:15 PM
sammi rules you   ^ but what is the real benefit of it? it doesn...   Jun 15 2005, 01:40 PM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(touch my monkey @ Jun 15 2005, 12:40 PM...   Jun 15 2005, 08:44 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 15 2005, 8:44 PM)...   Jun 15 2005, 10:05 PM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 15 2005, 9:05 PM)...   Jun 15 2005, 10:27 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 15 2005, 9:44 PM)...   Jun 15 2005, 11:00 PM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(mipadi @ Jun 15 2005, 10:00 PM)How do y...   Jun 15 2005, 11:09 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 16 2005, 12:09 AM...   Jun 15 2005, 11:15 PM
sadolakced acid   the point of the electoral college is the founding...   Jun 15 2005, 02:15 PM
mipadi   It's not so much that they weren't smart e...   Jun 15 2005, 02:20 PM
mona lisa   It's not very representative. A state like New...   Jun 15 2005, 07:32 PM
lbjshaq2345   i dont rly care bout politics   Jun 15 2005, 10:31 PM
CrackedRearView   Okay excuse me, I guess I forgot to mention the .0...   Jun 15 2005, 11:20 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 15 2005, 10:27 PM...   Jun 15 2005, 11:46 PM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 15 2005, 10:46 PM...   Jun 16 2005, 03:32 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 16 2005, 3:32 PM)...   Jun 16 2005, 09:45 PM
sammi rules you   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 16 2005, 2:32 PM)...   Jun 18 2005, 03:50 PM
TaintedDesires   Without the electoral college, whoever is more pop...   Jun 16 2005, 01:43 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(TaintedDesires @ Jun 16 2005, 2:43 PM)W...   Jun 16 2005, 10:13 PM
sikdragon   Dont reply until you've read everything comrad...   Jun 18 2005, 06:31 AM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(sikdragon @ Jun 18 2005, 6:31 AM)Dont r...   Jun 18 2005, 12:45 PM
not_your_average   Pfft, yeah it should be eliminated. It's compl...   Jun 18 2005, 03:00 PM
CrackedRearView   You're still mistaken if you think the Elector...   Jun 18 2005, 08:49 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 18 2005, 8:49 PM)...   Jun 18 2005, 09:30 PM
CrackedRearView   That would defeat the whole purpose. There will a...   Jun 19 2005, 09:41 PM
not_your_average   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 19 2005, 9:41 PM)...   Jun 19 2005, 10:29 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 19 2005, 9:41 PM)...   Jun 19 2005, 10:43 PM
darinmoore   I didn't read any of the comments posted befor...   Jun 20 2005, 05:29 PM
not_your_average   ^ The electoral college is what caused the 2000 el...   Jun 20 2005, 08:02 PM
darinmoore   QUOTE(not_your_average @ Jun 20 2005, 8:02 PM...   Jun 21 2005, 05:57 PM
sikdragon   Our democracy is not just about majority rules. Th...   Jun 20 2005, 11:20 PM
tofuburger   i think it should be eliminated..it alters the vot...   Jun 20 2005, 11:26 PM
sadolakced acid   wait wait wait... how is appealing to LA and NYC ...   Jun 21 2005, 12:36 AM
sikdragon   what's the percentage of voter turn out? if yo...   Jun 21 2005, 12:39 AM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(sikdragon @ Jun 21 2005, 12:39 AM)what...   Jun 21 2005, 12:40 AM
sikdragon   Keyword might and even then it wouldnt be a fair e...   Jun 21 2005, 12:48 AM
sadolakced acid   not really in my state. my state was red territor...   Jun 21 2005, 12:52 AM
sikdragon   There is a popular vote as well. Your vote does co...   Jun 21 2005, 12:55 AM
sadolakced acid   which doesn't count worth shit.   Jun 21 2005, 12:56 AM
sikdragon   sorry   Jun 21 2005, 12:56 AM
sikdragon   If it didnt, how did your state turn red?   Jun 21 2005, 12:57 AM
sadolakced acid   ehh. i should have said showed up as red. it...   Jun 21 2005, 01:02 AM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 21 2005, 12:02 AM...   Jun 21 2005, 12:58 PM
sikdragon   more than half is majority, you just contradicted ...   Jun 21 2005, 01:03 AM
sadolakced acid   ^ what? (i'm not sure what you're referin...   Jun 21 2005, 01:19 AM
sadolakced acid   if my party wins, my vote doesn't matter eithe...   Jun 21 2005, 01:22 PM
sammi rules you   exactly, if i voted republican in california or so...   Jun 21 2005, 04:14 PM
sikdragon   Your vote doesnt matter because you're the min...   Jun 21 2005, 06:30 PM
CrackedRearView   Even so, you cannot argue that the Electoral Colle...   Jun 21 2005, 07:32 PM
sammi rules you   QUOTELook at it this way, if the Electoral College...   Jun 21 2005, 11:17 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 21 2005, 7:32 PM)...   Jun 21 2005, 11:41 PM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 21 2005, 10:41 PM...   Jun 22 2005, 02:10 AM
sadolakced acid   i seriously doubt it that each candidate would onl...   Jun 22 2005, 02:27 AM
CrackedRearView   So you think the Popular vote is worthless? Becau...   Jun 22 2005, 12:54 PM
mocassinsx29   ^ People protested yeah, but what happened in effe...   Jun 22 2005, 05:58 PM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(mocassinsx29 @ Jun 22 2005, 4:58 PM)^ P...   Jun 22 2005, 11:13 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 22 2005, 11:13 PM...   Jun 23 2005, 12:28 AM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 22 2005, 11:28 PM...   Jun 23 2005, 07:18 PM
mipadi   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 23 2005, 8:18 PM)...   Jun 24 2005, 09:25 AM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(mipadi @ Jun 24 2005, 8:25 AM)In the en...   Jun 24 2005, 04:40 PM
sikdragon   QUOTETHE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IS IMPORTANT By Bob Wa...   Jun 23 2005, 01:42 AM
sammi rules you   *sigh* i hate breaking down posts.. QUOTEIn the c...   Jun 23 2005, 06:25 AM
sadolakced acid   just becasue liberals are pissed bush got elected ...   Jun 24 2005, 12:23 AM
CrackedRearView   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Jun 23 2005, 11:23 PM...   Jun 24 2005, 01:57 AM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(CrackedRearView @ Jun 24 2005, 1:57 AM)...   Jun 24 2005, 02:21 AM
CrackedRearView   That would take some serious amending, none of whi...   Jun 24 2005, 02:25 AM
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