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is it animal cruelty?
CrimsonArchangel
post Jan 26 2005, 09:14 PM
Post #1


Carried away
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No, this is not about fur, or wool or anything like that.

Its about science. Many of you have had to dissect several creatures for bio class, most likely. Today I had to do the frog ringer lab, where a frog has its brain removed (is it really dead?) and then we have to dissect it and add chemicals to its heart to see what happens, then add a third one that will kill it.

Now I ask. Despite the fact that many of those animals are bred for that purpose, "to further science", should we use animals as dissection subjects? Or should we just make plastic models and the such?

Is it animal cruelty to breed animals for the purpose of being cut up by students just to learn?
 
 
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sadolakced acid
post Feb 13 2005, 02:11 AM
Post #2


dripping destruction
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pyrithione zinc is the active ingredent in Garnier Fructis.

here is the paper on Pyrithione Zinc, and if it is safe to use in cosmetics.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/health/ph_risk/c...s/out225_en.pdf

you will see that they say they try to use alternates to animal testing. keep reading.

go to the toxicology report

it reads:

QUOTE
TOXICOLOGICAL CHARACTERISATION
2.3. Toxicity
2.3.1. Acute oral toxicity
Ingredient based data
LD50 values for zinc pyrithione have been determined in various species after oral administration.
The values in the rat ranged from 92 to 266 mg/kg and in the mouse from 160 to 1000 mg/kg.
Six hundred mg/kg was found to be the LD50 when administered orally to dogs.
Ref. : 6, 10, 33, 57, 71, 73



This is on page 5 of the PDF.

as you can see, Pyrithione Zinc has been tested on rats and dogs. The Pyrithione Zinc was administerd to the orally.


additionally:
QUOTE
For the cream shampoo form in pigeons, the ED100 was 0.1 g/kg, the ED0 was 0.02 g/kg, and the
ED50 was approximately 0.05 g/kg.
page 6


QUOTE
In the emetic studies with dogs, the emesis typically occurred within 60 minutes of dosing, the
average being 30 minutes, and involved two to four episodes. Occasional bloody vomitus was
seen, indicating gastric irritation.


as you can see, the dogs were force fed, and some vomited blood. emesis means vomiting.

QUOTE
Dermal LD50 values for albino rabbits that range from < 2,000 mg/kg to 10,000 mg/kg.

QUOTE
A shampoo containing 2% ZPT at levels of 2.5, 5.0, 10.0, and 20.0 g/kg was tested on rabbits.


Pyrithione Zinc has been tested on rabbits (applied to their skin)

QUOTE
Generally, 25 mg/kg of ZPT was fatal to both dogs and monkeys within 24 hours and produced
cholinergic-like effects prior to death. Doses of 15 and 20 mg/kg produced slight cholinergic
stimulation in dogs but death did not result. One of two Yorkshire pigs died when injected intravenously
with 20mg/kg and 10 mg/kg was a lethal dose for rabbits. Intravenous doses of 5 mg/kg
or less produced only transient effects.


monkeys, rabbits, pigs, and dogs were injected with Pyrithione Zinc untill they died.

QUOTE
Reno and Banas (1975) also studied the effects of ZPT incorporated into the diet of rhesus
monkeys at higher levels. In this study the animals were fed diet containing 500 and 5000 ppm
of ZPT (12 and 30 mg/kg/day) for 28 days. There were three animals in each test group and two
animals in the control group. No adverse effects were observed in the monkeys fed ZPT at the
lower dose level. The animals receiving the higher dose level, however, exhibited
lethargy, anorexia, weight loss, soft faeces, or diarrhoea, and one of them died on Day 23 of the
study. The two remaining animals experienced a 25-30% weight loss over the study, and signs of
neurological deficit were noted. The only compound-related histopathology was limited to
atrophy of the musculature of monkeys in the high-dose group. There were no unusual
findings associated with the peripheral or central nervous system..

more testing on monkeys.

note that the monkeys experience fatiuge, diarrheoa, and death. Also, Brain damage.


QUOTE
Larson (1957) conducted a 90-day percutaneous toxicity study with ZPT (2 ml of water per gram
of 50% wettable ZPT powder) using albino rabbits. Doses of 125, 250, 500, 1000 and 2000 mg/kg
were applied daily (5 days per week) to groups of three or four animals for 13 weeks. The
animals were harnessed during application and remained so until the material dried, at which
time the animals were washed. None of the rabbits receiving 1000 or 2000 mg/kg survived the
90-day test period, the longest survival being 21 days. Four of twelve animals dosed at the lower
levels survived, and those were necropsied at that time. Focal necrosis of either the brain or
spinal cord in three of the four surviving animals. There were no histological changes in other
organs.


Read that carefully. Rabbits were locked up so they couldn't move, and Pyrithione Zinc was dumped on them. they all died. after substantial brain damage.




These are various mentions of animal testing i caught when skimming the first 10 pages.

there are 36 pages.

if your bottle of Garnier Fructis says that it was never tested on animals, this is becuase the completed product was never tested on animals.


Now i realize that your Garnier Fructis may be a different type, with a different active ingredient.

please read your bottle and post the complete name of your shampoo and the active ingredient, if you wish.

the point of this is, everything is tested on animals.

who else wants to try thier shampoo?
 

Posts in this topic
CrimsonArchangel   is it animal cruelty?   Jan 26 2005, 09:14 PM
racoons > you   yes.   Jan 27 2005, 12:01 PM
karrar   It is animal cruelty,but you can not risk a Human...   Jan 27 2005, 05:17 PM
racoons > you   ^^ what kind of company, if its cosmetics then its...   Jan 27 2005, 05:23 PM
karrar   Human Genome project and stem cells still are not ...   Jan 27 2005, 05:29 PM
CrimsonArchangel   Humans *are* used for dissection. I've done it...   Jan 27 2005, 06:04 PM
Frankie   this is a good point. from someone else's poin...   Jan 27 2005, 06:29 PM
cRaZiiXbEauTiFul   ^^ agreed,...but wait...you take out the frogs bra...   Jan 27 2005, 06:57 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(cRaZiiXbEauTiFul @ Jan 27 2005, 6:57 PM...   Jan 28 2005, 02:47 PM
sporadic   ........It was still alive....?   Jan 28 2005, 02:32 AM
Gypsy Eyes   Oi vey, i'm going o try not to go overboard on...   Jan 28 2005, 06:48 PM
racoons > you   ^^ i'll sign i will just say, that ive never ...   Jan 29 2005, 08:13 AM
sammi rules you   i don't think they're supposed to be alive...   Jan 29 2005, 11:20 AM
niez_cho   If the animals died naturally, then I think it...   Jan 30 2005, 03:49 AM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(niez_cho @ Jan 30 2005, 3:49 AM)If the ...   Jan 30 2005, 11:36 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEi don't think they're supposed to be ...   Jan 30 2005, 10:27 AM
sammi rules you   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Jan 30 2005, 9:27 A...   Jan 30 2005, 11:55 AM
eunie03   I don't think you should do anything to ...   Jan 30 2005, 02:33 PM
Sumiaki   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Jan 30 2005, 2:33 PM)I don...   Jan 31 2005, 04:13 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Jan 30 2005, 2:33 PM)I don...   Jan 31 2005, 05:23 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(CrimsonArchangel @ Jan 31 2005, 5:23 PM...   Jan 31 2005, 06:40 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(uninspiredfae @ Jan 31 2005, 6:40 PM)Th...   Feb 1 2005, 06:38 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(CrimsonArchangel @ Jan 31 2005, 5:23 PM...   Feb 1 2005, 11:45 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEif you cut a worm in half it's still aliv...   Jan 30 2005, 02:40 PM
racoons > you   QUOTESame goes for the person who said "Let...   Feb 1 2005, 01:50 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 1 2005, 1:50 PM...   Feb 1 2005, 04:06 PM
Spirited Away   You know, the blood and gore in movies can look re...   Feb 2 2005, 12:11 AM
Funky Buddha   What about vegetable cruelty? Plants too are livin...   Feb 2 2005, 12:23 AM
sadolakced acid   the contrast between disection models and the real...   Feb 2 2005, 12:25 AM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 2 2005, 12:25 AM)...   Feb 2 2005, 06:50 PM
Spiritual Winged Aura   yea, all the ideas are pass by generations and peo...   Feb 2 2005, 12:31 AM
Spirited Away   QUOTEhow will doctors learn how find the gallbladd...   Feb 2 2005, 12:31 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEcosmetics MUST be tested, (or at least all ch...   Feb 2 2005, 12:10 PM
xcaitlinx   no, because you DONT DISSECT THEM ALIVE. unles...   Feb 2 2005, 04:33 PM
sammi rules you   QUOTE(caytexo @ Feb 2 2005, 3:33 PM)no, becau...   Feb 2 2005, 05:16 PM
smthngcrprategrl34   yea it does sound like that too me. 9th grade we h...   Feb 2 2005, 04:39 PM
im2tall   I'm sorry, but most of your comments are based...   Feb 2 2005, 10:55 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid)Humans and animals are not e...   Feb 3 2005, 12:25 AM
sadolakced acid   im2tall, you know that formaldehyde isn't actu...   Feb 2 2005, 11:25 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 2 2005, 11:25 PM)...   Feb 2 2005, 11:44 PM
im2tall   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 2 2005, 8:25 PM)i...   Feb 3 2005, 09:36 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(im2tall @ Feb 3 2005, 9:36 PM)Although ...   Feb 4 2005, 12:06 PM
xcaitlinx   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Feb 4 2005, 12:06 PM)Actually...   Feb 4 2005, 03:12 PM
xGlovex   yes.   Feb 3 2005, 12:20 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Feb 2 2005, 11:25 PM)They are...   Feb 3 2005, 05:35 PM
xcaitlinx   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 3 2005, 5:35 PM)a...   Feb 3 2005, 08:08 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 3 2005, 5:35 PM)a...   Feb 4 2005, 12:14 AM
sadolakced acid   yes... but we are still human. loyalty to specie...   Feb 3 2005, 09:21 PM
CrimsonArchangel   Well.... I guess the debate has stemmed to the iss...   Feb 3 2005, 11:36 PM
racoons > you   QUOTEanyways:  an animal cannot speak to defe...   Feb 4 2005, 12:23 PM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 4 2005, 12:23 P...   Feb 4 2005, 02:13 PM
racoons > you   QUOTEYes, medical testing has more good reasons be...   Feb 4 2005, 03:15 PM
PUNKINitup   Yes it is. I'm a vegitarian, and the only reas...   Feb 4 2005, 03:16 PM
Stately Lover   QUOTEYes it is. I'm a vegitarian, and the only...   Feb 6 2005, 05:02 PM
sadolakced acid   oh yes. it's so cruel. i mean, helping propo...   Feb 9 2005, 12:02 AM
mysticalazxn   some animal must sacrafice for tthe shake of the h...   Feb 9 2005, 12:04 AM
LadyXTor   People are saying that we don't dissect until ...   Feb 9 2005, 12:22 AM
im2tall   wow... you kids are amazing... I didn't want t...   Feb 9 2005, 08:22 PM
sadolakced acid   because humans are not animals. disections of c...   Feb 9 2005, 12:48 AM
LadyXTor   yes, but that's only cats from shelters. Some...   Feb 9 2005, 12:57 AM
eunie03   QUOTE(LadyXTor @ Feb 9 2005, 12:57 AM)They ar...   Feb 9 2005, 02:43 AM
sadolakced acid   ok, so the cats will be involuntarily scaraficed f...   Feb 9 2005, 03:13 AM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 9 2005, 3:13 AM)o...   Feb 12 2005, 01:04 AM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(eunie03 @ Feb 12 2005, 12:04 AM)I don...   Feb 12 2005, 04:39 AM
CrimsonArchangel   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 12 2005, 4:39 AM)...   Feb 12 2005, 04:48 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 12 2005, 4:39 AM)...   Feb 12 2005, 11:09 PM
racoons > you   QUOTEand for live test subjects: the animals are b...   Feb 9 2005, 04:38 PM
sadolakced acid   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 9 2005, 3:38 PM...   Feb 9 2005, 06:13 PM
LadyXTor   QUOTE(sadolakced acid @ Feb 9 2005, 6:13 PM)n...   Feb 9 2005, 06:34 PM
sadolakced acid   there are no medicines, that have not been tested ...   Feb 9 2005, 06:41 PM
x_angawhomps   What the hell, animals are bred for that purpose? ...   Feb 9 2005, 06:43 PM
CrimsonArchangel   WELL said. I actually believe all you say. I sta...   Feb 9 2005, 09:52 PM
Spirited Away   If it's so gruesome for high school students t...   Feb 10 2005, 12:47 AM
im2tall   QUOTE(uninspiredfae @ Feb 9 2005, 9:47 PM)If ...   Feb 10 2005, 09:32 PM
Spirited Away   QUOTE(im2tall @ Feb 10 2005, 9:32 PM)You are ...   Feb 10 2005, 11:21 PM
sadolakced acid   i agree plastic and silicone models can be good te...   Feb 11 2005, 02:59 AM
Spirited Away   Yes, yes. And once again, we can lessen the use of...   Feb 11 2005, 11:16 AM
racoons > you   QUOTEI belive laundry detergent is also tested on ...   Feb 11 2005, 11:51 AM
sadolakced acid   most school have classes sans disection. QUOTEi...   Feb 11 2005, 04:50 PM
angel_eyez102   Personaly, i don't mind doing things to alread...   Feb 11 2005, 10:26 PM
sammi rules you   ^ i think she means bestiality..which has nothing ...   Feb 12 2005, 10:43 AM
sammi rules you   ^ and, if a kid got in a fire and there's like...   Feb 12 2005, 05:11 PM
Paradox of Life   Bah, I'm a major animal supporter and I think ...   Feb 12 2005, 10:34 PM
lakerfever2476   I think it's wrong. Ever heard of posters? Dia...   Feb 13 2005, 01:41 AM
sadolakced acid   pyrithione zinc is the active ingredent in Garnier...   Feb 13 2005, 02:11 AM
sadolakced acid   The last post was just too long for an edit to add...   Feb 13 2005, 02:24 AM
racoons > you   ithink you've won the debate to be honest i r...   Feb 13 2005, 07:41 AM
eunie03   I am well aware of what emesis means... don't ...   Feb 13 2005, 11:58 AM
sadolakced acid   well that's not fun... someone should try t...   Feb 13 2005, 12:00 PM
racoons > you   cant be assed. revel in your victory QUOTEGod... ...   Feb 13 2005, 12:05 PM
eunie03   QUOTE(MarchHare2UrAlice @ Feb 13 2005, 12:05 ...   Feb 15 2005, 04:29 PM
sammi rules you   we don't want to. you're intelligent, we l...   Feb 14 2005, 07:54 PM
CrimsonArchangel   Well... I certainly cannot given that I agree with...   Feb 15 2005, 11:30 AM
racoons > you   can we close this? i mean, it would be nice to end...   Feb 15 2005, 11:31 AM
racoons > you   ^^ lookin forward to it...   Feb 16 2005, 06:49 AM


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