The CB Revolution, it has begun Options

[sadolakced acid]

now that the new moderators have been announced, it is time for the CB Revolution.

What It Is

The CB Revolution is a reform movement of sorts. The goal of the CB Revolution is to achieve certain changes in CB. These goals are to make CB a better place.

What The Goals Are

The goals of the CB Revolution are: (may change in time)

1. The addition of a suggestions forum. (implemented)
2. Having each forum have a mod that will check all threads and posts in that forum. (come on...)
3. The reform of the Moderation System; namely, a better system for denoting verbal warnings. (implemented)
4. The informing of members about changes. Suprises are nice- but if a change affects members greatly, it is better to have member imput. (not needed)

Why These Goals?

These are the goals fo the CB Revolution, with explinations on why they should become reality:

1. The addition of a suggestions forum.
The core of online communities are it's members. An online community can have good resources, and good administrators and staff, and yet, without members it is useless. Members often have the best ideas about things that will affect them- yet currently in CB, there is no way for these ideas to be submited, save PM or a topic lost in the forums. There is no dedicated forum where users may post an idea for CB they have, for the admin ,staff, and members to see if it's a good one. Many online communities have them, and they help with keeping the community on the track the members wish it to be.

2. Having each forum have a mod that will check all threads and posts in that forum.
CB is a large forum. There are many threads, and many more posts. Yet currently, it is possible for a thread, and even more probable a post, that never gets read by a moderator. Sure, there's the report for things like that. however; members have been told that before a mod will get the PM from the report, the topic or post will have been moderated already. This is evidently not happening. Sometimes whole forums are bypassed by mods for a few days. Every police department give's it's officers beats to walk, thus insuring everything is covered. Why should createblog be different? Like policemen, moderators cannot patrol all of CB. If all the policemen in a district went around in one big bus, they would be very ineffective. moderators should spread out, and thus better utilize thier numbers. There is no use for threads in the lounge to be looked over by four different moderators within it's first 30 minutes, while a thread in cars is overlooked for 3 days.

3. The reform of the Moderation System; namely, a better system for denoting verbal warnings.
This reform would be mainly backstage, and may already be done. A member may get 5 verbal warnings a day from 5 different mods, and never get a warning increase. This shouldn't happen; the second verbal should result in an actual. With this reform, this would happen. However, this isn't the only thing in the moderation system that should be changed. moderators should warn more freely- if the rules are let to slack too much, it is not good. of course, too strict isn't good either, but that's why there are verbal warnings.

4. The informing of members about changes. Suprises are nice- but if a change affects members greatly, it is better to have member imput.
Members do not enjoy being in the dark. Moreover, members would not know if they liked the change or not? why go through the trouble to have CB recoded (example) if the members don't like it? Of course, not everything should be announced ahead of time- but certain changes should, and member imput should be collected, as member imput is valuble.

How to support the CB Revolution

This is how to support the CB Revolution:

1. Declare your support in this thread.

2. Copy this code into your signature

CODE

[size=14][URL=http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77726]I support the CB Revolution[/URL][/size]

3. design a banner for the CB Revolution, etc.

[*basick*]

id rather support the free basick and jambajuice from clique band camp revolution

but you typed alot .. i thinks its frivolous but whatever .. do you... if this works then we can start the basick for entertainment_MOD campaign

[HelloSunshine]

It's really nice of you to do this for CB. I mean, I can understand why you'd want to do this, but really I think it's more so up to the Admins. Your ideas are for the better, I can tell, and yes some of your ideas would help CB actually make a friendlier community. I appreciate how much you want CB to change

[sammi rules you]

justin....
don't talk about things you don't know about. kthx.

[gigiopolis]

Oh wow. I don't know what to say to that.

[sadolakced acid]

justin....
don't talk about things you don't know about. kthx.

and what do i not know about? CB? and who's fault would that be? mine? that i don't know about that?

why is it that members should be the second class?

there are some 30ish mods, and some 90K registered members, i'll give it 10K or so posting

there are some things that money can't buy. for everything else, there's mastercard.

(sorry. i don't mean to be mean, so that's to lighten it up a bit)

members have no say in anything- the thread about having 13 year olds and the law about them sending information and such was shuffled around a bit- why? becuase members have no place to imput.

that thread adressed a topic that was essential to the survival of CB. it adressed a legal issue, and if it's suggestion was not implimented CB could be shut down. yet where did it go? lounge, then debate, then lounge.

where would future suggestions go?

i think it's time members find thier voice.

((edit))
yes, CB is jusun's. but it is mine too. it is yours. it is all of ours, because if CB becomes a spam-garden, we will care. if CB is shut down because it violates some law, we will care. it is a community, so why cannot the community take part?

[*basick*]

u taking this too seriously ... lol... its just an online forum

[sadolakced acid]

no. it's an online community

[sammi rules you]

well, mods control cb. that's why they're mods. no, members don't have much say in what happens to cb. that's why they're members, and not mods. the best people that we think have the best ideas and can help most with cb are chosen as mods. (most of the time ) deal with it. make yourself mod material, and maybe you'll have a say.

i'm so sick of people.

[miszSERENiTY]

ha I have the urge to say "get a life", but I`m not that mean.

[sadolakced acid]

bleh... i have no wish to be a mod. i don't have the time or dedication to moderate the entire community section. yet why do i need to be a mod to have a say?


so 30some people control 10k some others, with no imput from those 10k?
sounds like a plan to me.

i could get a life, and in fact i'm tempted to. instead of contributing to CB, i could quit and have a life.

[DesperateXMeasur...]

Give me a break man. It's a message board, you'll live.
Get a life or something.

[gigiopolis]

bleh... i have no wish to be a mod.  i don't have the time or dedication to moderate the entire community section.    yet why do i need to be a mod to have a say?
so 30some people control 10k some others, with no imput from those 10k? 
sounds like a plan to me.

i could get a life, and in fact i'm tempted to.  instead of contributing to CB, i could quit and have a life.

You know, it's not like we don't accept new suggestions or anything (like the Mod performance thread) and we're always open to suggestions by PM or w/e. And if enough people like the idea, or if it is truly reasonable, then why not enforce it?

The thing is, Justin, people don't like your idea. You had your say, you have PLENTY of say, but what is the use if the majority don't like it? You can't speak for EVERYONE just because your one idea isn't well received.

[DesperateXMeasur...]

i could get a life, and in fact i'm tempted to.  instead of contributing to CB, i could quit and have a life.

Well then, sounds like a plan.
I'm sure you'll be dearly missed.

[sadolakced acid]

if that's what you think it's about gigi, then sure.

(( i actually did decide to quit. the reason i come to CB is the debate forum. right now, there are no worthy debates. there are none. i just wanted to go out like a torch, and maybe make CB a better place while i'm at it. ))

[Just_Dream]

lol Sammi, when you say "mods control cB," it sounds as if we're dictators or something. Not that you meant it that way.

As for this issue, all I have to say about "cB changes" is that not much has changed. Perhaps the skins section and main page looks different, but why should it matter? It is STILL a community. Jusun--micron--is even having members participate in creating banners for the main page. Sure, thigns changed and members were allowed to submit banners in the past, but at least he still allows members to submit banners.

What you don't realize is that sure, there have been quite a few changes to cB, but overtime, things change. Sorry, but I just feel like these changes shouldn't have mattered because imho, I don't think much has changed. Perhaps "cB2," if that's what you're referring to about major changes, what you don't realize is that it would've probably taken a while to get 10k members (who actually post) to approve of something new. Not to mention that perhaps to many, there's the chance that they believe that cB2 isn't that big a change. All I'm saying is that there will always be change, it's something we can't help but succumb to. But hey, we all have different views.

As for the "suggestions" forum, a whole forum about suggestions? Okay so members would create numerous threads about many suggestions? Why not just have a thread for it? Just one thread, rather than a whole forum? Or maybe if a member has a suggestion, perhaps they should PM it to a moderator or admin?

Sorry, but it seems as if members NEVER had input on anything. But see, they do. Micron has made a few threads in the lounge, asking about signatures and whatnot.

As for the noobs thing, robb0, what you failed to mention was that regular members shoot down on newbies as well. Sure, moderators have warned a few, but ONLY as a last resort. Or rather, SHOULD be as a last resort. I've seen quite a few times when frequent members bash on newbies if they make a mistake.

"OMG YOU SPAMMED! DOUBLE POST! JFLDAJLFKS" Sometimes that's all a member would contribute to a thread if a newbie accidentally "double posted." I'm not directing this at anyone... But I've seen some members do that. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't classify moderators as the ones who seem to crack down on members.

This post has been edited by Just_Dream: Apr 25 2005, 11:09 PM

[MrElsewhere]

Can't say the man isn't passionate.

Change for the better is good. I'm not sure if your ideas will actually make cB a better place by a noticable margin.

[*suddenly she*]

i can see your point, and i don't want to seem like i'm just siding with them for the heck of siding with them, but the mods do their best. a suggestions forum would cause a lot of controversy and conflict from people arguing whether an idea is good or not. if anyone has something to say to the mods or a suggestion, i know there's a pinned moderator performance whatever thread up there.. like gigi (sorry if that's not your name, i guessed) said, you can PM them if there's something wrong.

and i really think that if the mods made some serious changes, they'll know when it affects us or not, and they'll let us know.

if you really think about it, we do have a say. some crazy mod could be out there who wanted to completely whack up the design of this site, but that hasn't happened. one, because the majority of them are intelligent people (i'm not saying anything, i don't know any stupid mods and i don't expect one either), and two, because they know that we'll be affected by it. what they do and what they decide always has us as a factor in it (or so we hope. it certainly seems that way), so let's have some faith.

a job well done to any mod that passes by. we know you all work really hard to keep this place the way it is.

[sadolakced acid]

yes, a whole forum just for suggestions.

the bad ones no one posts in, and they fall. good ones stay at the top. and members get imput.

sure, i could PM a mod about these changes. what good would that do? the rest of the community can't shed thier opinons on it.

i'm not talking about CB2... i'm talking about some time way bad when, the look of CB was changed. members didn't like it, so it was changed back.

[*suddenly she*]

sure, i could PM a mod about these changes.  what good would that do?  the rest of the community can't shed thier opinons on it. 

but is it necessary for an idea to always have opinions behind it? better to have mods look at the idea and think it through before sticking it out in public for support or ridicule.

i'm tired, so don't expect any more replies from me tonight.

[Just_Dream]

i'm not talking about CB2... i'm talking about some time way bad when, the look of CB was changed.  members didn't like it, so it was changed back.

Ah yes. But you see, members didn't like it, so it got changed back. So isn't the issue resolved?

[yaamakoh]

now isn't this drawing out all the attention to yourself? if you haven't noticed everything you said completely contracted your own prior point posted sado. good game.

[largosama]

I shall support points two and three, sir.
A suggestion forum would require three to go into action first However, it would seem that some mods don't "want" to moderate specific forums, and sadly support for such a forum is slim

I would like to point out though, that verbal warnings do their job. Unless if you have someone that comes to the forum for the sole purpose of flame that is. What ruins the newbs more are the members that try to be a backseat mod and are picky about it.

Well I don't have much to say now past this

[gigiopolis]

Just so you guys now, now there's a Verbal Warnings thread where the mods can post in telling others that certain members have been verbally warned. It is organized like the Oversized Signatures thread, and that is doing pretty well.

[*wind&fire*]

^ can you link it?

[edit]

V oh right... didnt read it clearly

[xTINAA]

^It is for the staff members ONLY.

[KissMe2408]

oh dear. again, I told you guys the aftermath was going to be interesting!!! lol, ok...but here i go..

You know, you had some pretty good points there. Like the suggestions forum. And also about the verbal abuse people throw out around here, unfortunately some mods do. And i wrote somethan in my application like that point you made about mods posting and reading the whole section. like maybe one or two mods for the writing forum, debate forum, ect...so cb can always be at its best. The thing is, i'm sure those changes will occur overtime. If you think about it, this is a fairly new site. And the amount of space and ways we are able to impact this site is phenomeonal. As for this whole revolution thing, it will all change in time. No need to rush it.

[starlette]

I like the point you made about mods for every forum. I think thats not a bad idea. that would be a lot of mods tho. not saying the mods arent doing their job, it owuld just make it a lot easier. so yeah :D I'd be one for the picture forum haha.

[*mzkandi*]

I like the point you made about mods for every forum.  I think thats not a bad idea.  that would be a lot of mods tho.  not saying the mods arent doing their job, it owuld just make it a lot easier.  so yeah :D I'd be one for the picture forum haha.

Next time the hire you should try out for a mod postion. I think you would be great..I know its a lil to early to be talking about that but still

anyways cb revolution.....like kissme (Katie) said...change is a gradual thing.

[racoons > you]

*WAVES THE FLAG OF THE REVOLUTION*

WE DESERVE THE VOTE, FOLKS

well, mods control cb. that's why they're mods. no, members don't have much say in what happens to cb. that's why they're members, and not mods. the best people that we think have the best ideas and can help most with cb are chosen as mods. (most of the time ) deal with it. make yourself mod material, and maybe you'll have a say.

exactly, sammi. YOU control it. and if the mods make all the decisions, they are bound to get things WRONG. which is why its time that everyone on the site was given equal say. Several people have clearly exhibited themselves TO BE mod material, at least in their own eyes and the yes of many other members. yet we were not chosen to be staff, and we were not given an explanation.

and frankly, if the mods do control the site, and people aren't happy, then its CLEAR that we need change

Just so you guys now, now there's a Verbal Warnings thread where the mods can post in telling others that certain members have been verbally warned.

but have you addressed the problems of clearly informing the recipientss of the warnings that they have recived said warnings? because that seemed to be an equal problem

As for the "suggestions" forum, a whole forum about suggestions? Okay so members would create numerous threads about many suggestions? Why not just have a thread for it?

because in one thread, it is easy for posts to get overlooked, and when people xpress support for a particular point that has been raised, the mods get in a snit about repeat posting

[misoshiru]

cB has been changing. slowly, so maybe you don't notice certain changes at first. yes, so maybe 30-so mods may not be enough to control that "10k" who contribute, but i feel that cB is doing pretty well the way it is now.

[rememberme]

Changing?

There's so many people. Of course its gonna change

[Where We Are]

Please, popular voting is just not practical in a forum, especially if you let the community vote for their mod.

My God, just read that: The community votes for the mod.

Popular voting works in a country because the candidate isn't a personal firend, as in the voter probably has no private connection w/ the candidate. Thus it is essentially a less bias vote. That's why candidates try to make themselves friendly and strive to become your pseudo-friend through the TV.

A forum is MUCH smaller, with the active users even LESS in numbers. You can't possibly think the sytem will be unbiased, do you?

What if a candidate-mod started underground campaigning? (bribe, bribe, bribe members)

And then think of the non-active members who will either just vote for who they personally like, or who they recognize, or even just pick a candidate out of the blue?

I KNOW some people that would run would not corrupt the system, but some will. The system will be flawed on a forum; it will not work.

The admins choose the mods for a reason. They usually don't have a personal bias towards someone since they never interact with the members. Their vote would be the most unbiased.

You've got to understand, popular voting on a forum will poison the mod system, causing the inevitable COUNTER REVOLUTION by admins to lockdown the chaos caused by a popular vote system. I've seen it happen in other forums (2 of them tried, 2 reverted back to admin pick)


I don't see how you can possibly suggest this method.

Oh and I like how different people with different goals are supporting the same revolution. How French revolutionistic it is.

[starlette]

Please, popular voting is just not practical in a forum, especially if you let the community vote for their mod.

My God, just read that: The community votes for the mod.

Popular voting works in a country because the candidate is impersonalised, as in the voter probably has no private connection w/ the candidate. Thus it is essentially a less bias vote. That's why candidates try to make themselves friendly and strive to become your pseudo-friend through the TV.

A forum is MUCH smaller, with the active users even LESS in numbers. You can't possibly think the sytem will be unbiased, do you?

What if a candidate-mod started underground campaigning? (bribe, bribe, bribe members)

And then think of the non-active members who will either just vote for who they personally like, or who they recognize, or even just pick a candidate out of the blue?

I KNOW some people that would run would not corrupt the system, but some will. The system will be flawed on a forum; it will not work.

The admins choose the mods for a reason. They usually don't have a personal bias towards someone since they never interact with the members. Their vote would be the most unbiased.

You've got to understand, popular voting on a forum will poison the mod system, causing the inevitable COUNTER REVOLUTION by admins to lockdown the chaos caused by a popular vote system. I've seen it happen in other forums (2 of them tried, 2 reverted back to admin pick)
I don't see how you can possibly suggest this method.

[edit] Oh and I like how different people with different goals are supporting the same revolution. How French revolutionistic it is.

wow. Its all...political...

[*mzkandi*]

@ Where We Are

^^i agree but seriously who are you...you just pop up out of the blue at the most random moments...you have another cb name dont you...are you trying protect yourself here...sorry i am the inquistive type...anyway i dont think the whole voting thing wouldnt work... too much bias would be involved and it wouldnt fair

[Where We Are]

I'm a forum hobo. i run around different forums.

I try not to be a troll. I try.

In forum terms, i'm a lurker here at cB. So I am random.


but why does it matter who i am. *shrug*

[*mzkandi*]

well, mods control cb. that's why they're mods. no, members don't have much say in what happens to cb. that's why they're members, and not mods. the best people that we think have the best ideas and can help most with cb are chosen as mods. (most of the time ) deal with it. make yourself mod material, and maybe you'll have a say.

i'm so sick of people.

sammi, see thats where i have to somewhat disagree. mods dont control anything. They act as intermediates. Without dedicated members (pssh without members period) there is no use for mods. There are alot of mod material members on cb that either try out and dont make it for what ever reason or prefer to sit on the sidelines. And members should have a say (and no I am not refering to hiring). I mean how can we call cB a community if members opinions are not valued. Mods are not above anyone on this forum, with comment you made you make it seem as though they are.

[Spirited Away]

but have you addressed the problems of clearly informing the recipientss of the warnings that they have recived said warnings? because that seemed to be an equal problem

Yes, the problem has been addressed. If I reported that so and so was verbally warned, that means I already PMed the person their warning.

Hey guys, though you all are understandably upset, I don't think you all should think about this situation like you would politics. Voting sounds nice and all, but when you go to apply for a job, other employees don't vote for you to get hired, you just get hired by the employer. I'm a little confused.

[*lolita kitty*]

this is nice of you, i think i would do some of those things. but you would also half to talk it up with the mods, dont forget that =]

[xquizit]

Voting sounds nice and all, but when you go to apply for a job, other employees don't vote for you to get hired, you just get hired by the employer.  I'm a little confused.

Precisely. Let's please just stop trying to get political here.

[*mzkandi*]

Voting sounds nice and all, but when you go to apply for a job, other employees don't vote for you to get hired, you just get hired by the employer.  I'm a little confused.

haha...Fae!!! Gosh you worded that perfectly. I am confused as to why anyone would bring that up smart idea..

[racoons > you]

Hey guys, though you all are understandably upset, I don't think you all should think about this situation like you would politics. Voting sounds nice and all, but when you go to apply for a job, other employees don't vote for you to get hired, you just get hired by the employer.  I'm a little confused.

however, the way CB works is much more similar to politics than it is to an ordinary workplace.

the members are the ones who have to interact with the mods, so why should they not have a say in who those people are?

[*mzkandi*]

however, the way CB works is much more similar to politics than it is to an ordinary workplace.

the members are the ones who have to interact with the mods, so why should they not have a say in who those people are?

James...durrr!! Because it would create bias. Just look at the cb hiring thread. "Well I think so and so should be a mod", "Yeah so and so have their shoe-in"....look familiar? What about the lesser known members that equally qualified. Everyone would course lean towards the members they are more close to without bothering giving the lesser members a chance. And what plan do you have in mind when comes to the voting...hmmm...I am just so curious to know. And like Fae. Its a job!! You have this in real life called hiring mangers that decide who they will hire. Sometimes they have alot of qualifed employers and you only hire some at that time. So what does the hiring manager do? They pick who they think are most qualified at the time and tell the other qualified candadites to try again later Same applies at cb. No need to have members vote when there is qualified admin to did it with little to no bias...

ahh...there problem corrected

This post has been edited by mzkandi: Apr 26 2005, 02:14 PM

[racoons > you]

lol.. you mean bias, not basis. ;)

well, firstly, i feel that only members with 1000 posts (or some similar restriction or limit) should have the vote, secondly, if a member wants to apply for staff, how 'little known' can they be? i think getting to know people on cb is a major part of being a mod, thus helping to strengthen the bonds of the community

secondly, as far as actual voting goes, set up a thread, each person gets to select one or two people who they feel deserve to be modded, and the people who recieve the most votes, get the position. or , alternately, to ensure the balot is secret, votes could be pmed to the mods themselves, so as to tally votes.

each mod would keep a list of those people who voteed through them, so as to protect against people trying to vote twice.

as for the 'its a job' argument... well, isnt the presidency or and political position a job too? like it or not, the mods are the closest thing cb has to a government, and as such teh members of cb, [I]which are who the hiring of mods effect [I] deserve a say in who is chosen

wow... i seem to be having this same argument (or a similar one) in two seperate threads... does someone want to pick one?

[*mzkandi*]

AHHH....BIAS...and I am a college student...I should know better!!!!! I will edit....

I still dont like the idea. BIAS...would still come into play. and i will say once again I agree with Fae

[racoons > you]

well... i'll say again that i disagree with fae. =)

how do you think bias will come into play? i mean, yes, there is the aspect that people could run a campaign, bu ti think people are intellingent enough not to just follow a crowd, and if a person mamanges to persaude people to vot efor them, they must be doing something right.

[Heathasm]

well... i'll say again that i disagree with fae. =)

bu ti think people are intellingent enough not to just follow a crowd, and if a person mamanges to persaude people to vot efor them, they must be doing something right.

rofl, i cant believe you just said that
i really dont want to make a comparison to hitler, hahahahhaha
In my opinion, I think you have alot more to learn about people

[JlIaTMK]

I support this. Why?

Because I find that members do need a voice in this kind of stuff. The mods can't tell them what is right or wrong in THEIR perspective. Members need to give suggestions too.

I don't see why this is such a big issue to the most of the mods.

[racoons > you]

rofl, i cant believe you just said that
i really dont want to make a comparison to hitler, hahahahhaha
In my opinion, I think you have alot more to learn about people

in my opinion, you seem very defensive about letting people have an equal say.

im sorry, but there is a difference between being forced to follow a crowdfor the sake of the lives of your family and friends, and following the crowd when you are being encouraged to speak out with your opinions

i believe that any member who has posted enought to reach 1000 posts will have formed their own opinions about potential staff members, and will use their own instincts when voting

[Heathasm]

in my opinion, you seem very defensive about letting people have an equal say.

im sorry, but there is a difference between being forced to follow a crowdfor the sake of the lives of your family and friends, and following the crowd when you are being encouraged to speak out with your opinions

i believe that any member who has posted enought to reach 1000 posts will have formed their own opinions about potential staff members, and will use their own instincts when voting

i did NOT make a hitler comparison lol, so you cant use that against me

also..i've made a total of 2 posts on this matter...i was aware of it long before now and just didnt care to say any thing, but hen i felt somewhat offended by the posts some people were making which lead me to get involved. I could care less if it were up to the people who chose the new staff this time or the general public. I'm not being defensive. I thought what you said was funny because i know that there are alot of people who do just follow he crowd to even greater and more ignorant heights you may think might only happen in movies or the midevil times.

[Rachel]

I support this. Why?

Because I find that members do need a voice in this kind of stuff. The mods can't tell them what is right or wrong in THEIR perspective. Members need to give suggestions too.

I don't see why this is such a big issue to the most of the mods.

I completley agree with you. I mean sure, mods should have somewhat more of a say, but really the members need to be involved. The members are what keep cB alive and ahead of blogring. I truly think that if we want to get a better community, we need to listen and be open to other suggestions made by worthy members.

I also think that some mods need to not get soo defensive.
Justin is not blaming you at all. He just wants you to let the community in on some decisions

PS-JUSTIN, QUIT AND I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND BRING YOU BACK!

[racoons > you]

did NOT make a hitler comparison lol, so you cant use that against me

also..i've made a total of 2 posts on this matter...i was aware of it long before now and just didnt care to say any thing, but hen i felt somewhat offended by the posts some people were making which lead me to get involved. I could care less if it were up to the people who chose the new staff this time or the general public. I'm not being defensive. I thought what you said was funny because i know that there are alot of people who do just follow he crowd to even greater and more ignorant heights you may think might only happen in movies or the midevil times.

you implied the hitler comparison, so i adresed it before anyone could pick up on it

and it was a generic 'you', not specific to you psonally. i apologize.

and as for the whole 'following the crowd thing', the only way to find that out is to test it

why do the mods hold the members in such low regard that they assume that we will do a cattle impression when given the chance to express our opinions

[Ington]

I stand with James. The flag of revolution is abroad.

[JlIaTMK]

Aw, thank you Rachel <3.

[*mona lisa*]

I.....don't believe this.

[racoons > you]

what, that people disagree?

shocking, isnt it

[*mona lisa*]

No. The whole voting for mods idea. It would exactly be a popularity contest. As someone had pointed out, most people will vote for the people they know so that they won't feel bad about not voting for their friends. And frankly, many people do see this as a popularity contest. However, the choices for the new mods prefectly show that it is not. And the a few or several of the applicants that didn't make it are "popular" and are complaining about the choices and wondering why they were not modded. I, personally, cannot understand why one person was not modded because I haven't seen them do anything wrong (until the new mods were posted). I had no participation in the selection process so I wouldn't know, but I have been noting the behavior and personalities of a few applicants. They are quiet (and excited) about cB hiring, but afterwards, they start complaining that they didn't become mods. It pisses me off. Well, you know, you must've done something wrong that the supermods and admins thought you aren't mod material. You're not as "high" or superior as you thought.

That was just me rambling, and note that "you" is not directed towards anyone specific.

[mirage]

I think we need to find a middle ground between all this so at least the mods will try and listen. We could vote, i like that idea, give that right to all the members who dedicated their time to this community. If we have to compromise, we could vote, and then the admins could look over the winning candidates and see if the voting is on popularity or for the sake of cB. If the admins really don't want certain members there to become a mod, then they could take them out and kindly give the community an explanation. So the community will vote, the mods will look over the winning candidates, then they will decide yes or no. This gives power to the both sides... right?

[sammi rules you]

justin, you know i don't hate you. it's just - the mods are the leaders of this community, just like in any community there's leaders. there's a school board and administration at your school, and as a student, do you get much say in what goes on? no, that's why you're not a leader. the leaders of THIS community have already not agreed with your idea multiple times. it's time to come up with a compromise or just quit that idea and try bringing it up later. we understand you wanna stand up for what you think, but you have; now is the time to stop. you gave your say already and we took it into consideration and discussed it and we don't think it's the best idea right now. you have to deal with that.

you know, we have a suggestions thread and a complaints thread. if we don't agree with one of the suggestions, that's too bad. we were open to the suggestion and discussed it, and decided against it. oh well.

justin, don't quit, i love you, just not your idea.

[racoons > you]

im sorry, but as far as i can see, the mods have listed reasons why we should have our ideas rejected, and we are responding to them.

the discussion isnt over, sammi. thats what happens when people stop talking, not in the middle of the issue

[Ington]

It would exactly be a popularity contest.

However, wouldn't it still be better than now? Now its a popularity contest between only a couple of people. If we voted, it would be between all of CB. Now, if someone is popular with all of CB, they should definitely be a mod. Obviously, they're doing something right. Its more foundational to be popular with thousands of people than with only a couple.

[sadolakced acid]

i not going to quit. at least, not outright... i'd still drop in and check out the interests forum every now and then...

I'm not for voting for mods. that's not effective. I am for members having a way to expess, through a poll or otherwise, who they thing should be mod, and this member imput should factor somewhat inot the decision for mods.

i know the whole each forum having a mod thing wasn't well recieved by mods. but we have yet to see if it's well recieved by the members. Sure, it affects mods, but shouldn't mods serve CB and members?


CB is run quite like a school system now. Students usually hate school boards and thier decisions. but members are not, like students, required to come to CB. they can quit anytime they like.


a suggestions thread is not enough. you cannot reply to a particular reply in a thread. there can only be one, or two , topics of discussion at a time in one thread. that's why i say a dedicated forum for suggestions.

for example; right now, the federal government can shut down CB. why? it allows children under the age of 13 to provide information. how can CB avoid this? by adding a checkbox that says 'i am over 13'. that every member 'tells' CB that they're over 13 and the law doesn't apply to them. this was brought up by a user, but then lost. still, in the CB registration form there isn't such a box.

and, regarding the change, then change back: that was rather ineffective. to change CB only to have to change it back? if i were in charge of CB, i wouldn't want to do that.


and remember, all these goals are independent

one does not necesitate the others.

[sammi rules you]

im sorry, but as far as i can see, the mods have listed reasons why we should have our ideas rejected, and we are responding to them.

the discussion isnt over, sammi. thats what happens when people stop talking, not in the middle of the issue

well, the discussion between the people who make the decisions is over. but you wouldn't know that, considering you can't see our discussion. can you?

justin..even if the members agree...your idea is affects US. the members don't have to moderate. if we like the way we're moderating now better than your idea, why can't you drop it?

[racoons > you]

no sammi, of course i cant

i believe and trust implicitly everything which comes from the mouths of the mods.

[sadolakced acid]

well, the discussion between the people who make the decisions is over. but you wouldn't know that, considering you can't see our discussion. can you?

no, we can't. it's not our fault we can't see backstage.

[sammi rules you]

read my edit.

[racoons > you]

^

*in resposne to edit*

well because we disagree, and think you're wrong

[*tweeak*]

it would competely defy the purpose of having a backstage if you could see it

[sadolakced acid]

exactly.

what is the purpose of a backstage?


to discuss things that will affect the members without member interferance.

congress's deliberations are public.

why can't moderators? let the members see the ideas and arguments, even if we can't post there.

and sammi, why don't i drop it? the same reason i debate. I'm trying to convince people here, not merely suggest something. Sure, i'll drop it. but not now- not yet.

[*Kathleen*]

it would competely defy the purpose of having a backstage if you could see it

And it has already been defied by having members log onto moderator accounts and for moderators bluntly explaining what Backstage is, even though you're prohibited from doing so. Nothing matters anymore apparently.

[*mona lisa*]

and, regarding the change, then change back: that was rather ineffective.  to change CB only to have to change it back?  if i were in charge of CB, i wouldn't want to do that. 

Which change are you talking about?

[*tweeak*]

but were not supporting these explanations or clandestine log ins

[sammi rules you]

well in this case, james, the suggestion doesn't even affect you. at all. it affects us and how we do our jobs. you're not our boss, jusun is. this IS a job. and if you think you can tell us how to do our jobs, you're surely mistaken.

i'm sorry for being harsh to you guys cause you know you're my friends, but i'm really fed up right now with the way things are going. this isn't how it's supposed to be..

[racoons > you]

how does the appointment of mods not effect me, a member of the community where these mods make the decisions? that makes no sense

well, if the way the mods are choosing to run the site is promoting this discontent, then clearly something is wrong. and clearly you need some instruction in how to do your job. because you're RIGHT. this ISNt how its supposed to be. and since sole responsibility for decisions which affect the site lie with the mods, as you say, then it follows logically that they are responsible

[*Kathleen*]

[quote]but were not supporting these explanations or clandestine log ins[/quote]
Oh really?
[quote]

Group: Official Member
Posts: 3,779
Joined: May 2004
Member No: 17,669
Status: Offline




I think there shd be a "staff room" where ONLY moderators can see and posts...they can talk about any thing they want, about things they don't want members to know about.


--------------------
I wanna stand with u on the mountain
i wanna bathe with u in the sea
i wanna lay like this forever
until the sky falls down on me


user posted image

THANKS TO JAMES, I HAVE TO KISS MY SISTER'S BUTT

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gotnoheart Female
Posted: Apr 24 2005, 11:37 AM
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i ♥ you
*******

Group: Xanga Staff
Posts: 3,995
Joined: Sep 2004
Member No: 50,413
Status: Online!




^It's called Backstage.


--------------------

sub-domain | xanga | myspace | community guidelines | user posted image
Anyone want a GMail invite? PM me with your e-mail. =]
(You must be a createBlog member and not have 0 posts.)

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tweeak Female
Posted: Apr 24 2005, 11:37 AM
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the discretely redundant member of the fab five
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Group: People Staff
Posts: 7,409
Joined: May 2004
Member No: 15,028
Status: Online!




^there IS one

or maybe we shouuld give an actual warning the first time, but not do anything like monitoring posts, or suspending
[/quote]
This is in Moderator Performance.

[sadolakced acid]

Which change are you talking about?

when CB was given a new 'skin', namely the boxy icons to the left of every thread were 3-d, as well as some forum elements...

[sammi rules you]

how does the appointment of mods not effect me, a member of the community where these mods make the decisions? that makes no sense

well, if the way the mods are choosing to run the site is promoting this discontent, then clearly something is wrong. and clearly you need some instruction in how to do your job. because you're RIGHT. this ISNt how its supposed to be. and since sole responsibility for decisions which affect the site lie with the mods, as you say, then it follows logically that they are responsible

am i even talking about the appointment of mods?
umno.
i'm talking about justin's idea to make each mod assigned to one forum.

we don't have a say in the appointment of mods either. OHHHH FRIGGINNNN WELLLL.

[racoons > you]

well then why did you address your reply to me, when i havent mentioned that aspect of the idea, as opposed to justin?

as for the rest of my post. well, still stands

[sammi rules you]

PM a friggin admin if you have a problem with how mods are chosen. have any of you even DONE that yet, besides just complaining to us mods who have no control over it about it?

[*mona lisa*]

when CB was given a new 'skin', namely the boxy icons to the left of every thread were 3-d, as well as some forum elements...

Ok, the only reason why it was taken off is because the majority of the members were lashing out on Jusun because they can't friggin accept change! They didn't like it because they didn't know what everything stood for, but didn't want to wait and try to learn and get used to them. Life is about changes. If you don't adapt to them, then well.....you know what kind of life you'll live.

[JlIaTMK]

you're not our boss, jusun is. this IS a job.

I was honestly waiting for a mod to say that Sammi. =D. Now that it has been said, I would like to point out that it was mentioned as boss, and not leader/overfounder. Boss.... strong word, often leads to thinking of overpowerment, no? Is it not true then, that most of the mods are fearful of Jusun because he does have this "boss" figure?

[*mona lisa*]

Boss does not necessarily have to mean someone who is harsh/mean/overpowering. No one should fear Jusun because he is so damn kind.

[racoons > you]

PM a friggin admin if you have a problem with how mods are chosen. have any of you even DONE that yet, besides just complaining to us mods who have no control over it about it?

has it not occurred to you that people HAVE pmed the admins, sammi, ad that we're talking here to see how other people feel?

Life is about changes

clearly, not if you are a mod

[sammi rules you]

if you're talking about being fearful of losing your job, uh duh. i think anyone in any job situation is fearful of making the wrong impression on their boss. o_O

but trust me, we'll stand up to jusun if we strongly diagree with some of his decisions, since we're around here more than he is and if we've seen examples we can use to prove why it's a bad decision, then we'll use them. at least, i will - i talk to him on AIM whenever he's on about stuff like this. although, he hasn't been on in a while..

[JlIaTMK]

Mona, you contradicted your beliefs. Look at what you wrote, people can't friggen accept change. That applies to YOU with this condition as well dear.

[*tweeak*]

I was honestly waiting for a mod to say that Sammi. =D. Now that it has been said, I would like to point out that it was mentioned as boss, and not leader/overfounder. Boss.... strong word, often leads to thinking of overpowerment, no? Is it not true then, that most of the mods are fearful of Jusun because he does have this "boss" figure?

in that respect, micron is more like lenin. not that jusun is like lenin in his ideology, but in the respect that he holds all the power yet prefers to work quietly behind the scenes

[sammi rules you]

has it not occurred to you that people HAVE pmed the admins, sammi, ad that we're talking here to see how other people feel?
clearly, not if you are a mod

1) talk in the chatroom. the new mods must feel like crap since people are protesting their appointment so much. don't ask us what the reasons were. don't debate their appointment here. that's something to be discussed off the forums or in private with an admin. if you've PMed them, great, wait for your response. we're sick of being bothered about reasons they were appointed when we too don't have a say in it.

2) what, so any change YOU agree with is good, and any one you don't is bad? you keep saying all these changes would benefit cb, but i don't think you know how hard it is to run a forum or even be a mod on one. there's 30,000 members we have to consider. not just a couple who agree with the idea. sure we may not agree with the mods that were chosen, but sometimes you just have to suck it up. make your own forum if you really don't like how cb is being run. or you can take it up with jusun.

we're just doing our jobs.

[*mona lisa*]

What change? I am not contradicting myself. If you mean about voting, I stated my reasons (which was not because I can't accept change). And which change are you talking about that I can't bare to accept now?

[JlIaTMK]

Comparisons between foreign leaders and the "boss" of cB doesn't.... help much.

He holds all the power yet? It is entertaining to see that people are admitting this.

[sadolakced acid]

Ok, the only reason why it was taken off is because the majority of the members were lashing out on Jusun because they can't friggin accept change! They didn't like it because they didn't know what everything stood for, but didn't want to wait and try to learn and get used to them. Life is about changes. If you don't adapt to them, then well.....you know what kind of life you'll live.

yes, not many people liked it. and it was changed back. ( which is good). but if you were Jusun. would you like to roll out a change and have it be badly recieved?

sure, don't include that. it's just seems like a more efficient way to bring about change. by introducing members to it before changing them over.

[*mona lisa*]

He doesn't exactly hold all the power. And I never compared him to a foreign leader, if that was towards me. He holds power because he CREATED all of this. He has the highest control and status because of that. But of course, the supermods and admins also have a lot of power.

[JlIaTMK]

And yet why does anyone have to "take it up with Jusun"?

It is a community to dispute and find a common grounds between eachother. Why the hell does it have to be one person's choice whether to abolish it or not?

[racoons > you]

or you can take it up with jusun.

in the process

the new mods must feel like crap since people are protesting their appointment so much

im not protesting their appointment. im protesting for a greater say in general, and also, i think you'll find that at least one of th enew mods strongly supports what's being said here.

we're sick of being bothered about reasons they were appointed when we too don't have a say in it.

so shut up and let it lie. it takes two to keep a conversation going.

you keep saying all these changes would benefit cb, but i don't think you know how hard it is to run a forum or even be a mod on one. there's 30,000 members we have to consider. not just a couple who agree with the idea.

im sorry. at what point did 29,998 members say that this was a bad idea? i must have missed that.

and if its so horribly difficult, why not allow some sort of subsidiarity. that would surely make your lives easier

[*mona lisa*]

yes, not many people liked it. and it was changed back. ( which is good). but if you were Jusun. would you like to roll out a change and have it be badly recieved?

sure, don't include that.  it's just seems like a more efficient way to bring about change.  by introducing members to it before changing them over.

Come on, they were just a few symbols and buttons that even little kids can understand. He probably changed it back because he wanted everyone to be happy and comfortable. What other way could it have been introduced if it didn't actually replace the other buttons? How could people have known whether they like one over the other if they didn't see it first?

[*tweeak*]

And yet why does anyone have to "take it up with Jusun"?

It is a community to dispute and find a common grounds between eachother. Why the hell does it have to be one person's choice whether to abolish it or not?

they have to take it up with jusun because frankly, it is his forum. you(generic) can deny it and insist its public all you like, but the fact is, he owns it, and hes the power to take it away.

[JlIaTMK]

Oh, and for Jusun being a "boss".

Hm, well he would be here to hear about the debate going on, and to debate himself.

This is putrid how we should just go to him for an "answer".

This is god figurely. Horrid.

[Ington]

You know what's funny? The funny thing is that this entire thing could be so much simpler if Jusun just says something already. We're arguing about mods? Why can't the head of this entire thing just clear it up already?

Face it people. CB is falling. I'd hate to be the doomsdayer of this entire thing, but it's falling. It's falling fast.

[Miss[x]Tiff]

If the Mods are working for Junsun then shouldn't they have an answer?

[*mona lisa*]

You know what's funny? The funny thing is that this entire thing could be so much simpler if Jusun just says something already. We're arguing about mods? Why can't the head of this entire thing just clear it up already?

Because he has a life. And is very busy with college.

[JlIaTMK]

Oh and if you are truly mods, then you would be mods for the community, not mods for Jusun just to impress him. Just wanted to say that.

And I must agree with Ariel on the last part. Period