Thou shall not kill....circumstantial or not?, Is is justified to kill baby Hitler? Options

[XoJennaoX]

As a young person you travel back in time to pre-World War II Germany, intending to kill the infant Adolf Hitler in order to prevent the horrors of the Holocaust. Disguising yourself as a housekeeper, you infiltrate the Hitler household, where you experience the environment that possibly shaped Hitler's warped thinking - his abusive, racist father and his weak, ineffective mother.

But killing a baby is much more difficult than you'd imagined, and though you try several times to commit the act, you find yourself either unable or prevented from doing it. Finally, you steal the infant out of his crib and though you are followed by the child's nanny, manage to leap from a bridge, drowning both yourself and the baby Hitler.

But history may not be changed! The maid spies a mentally ill gypsy woman sitting with her baby, and buys the child, passing him off to the unwitting Hitler parents as their own baby.

What do you think? Was Hitler born evil (was it in his innate nature to be who he was) or was it other factors? What do you do? Would you kill baby Hitler, or would you not? Would you sacrifice yourself? If you do kill him, you must take the guilty plea of having committed murder on an innocent life. Taking note that Hitler (as an infant) is completely innocent and you yourself have to kill him. It is harder than it sounds.

[XaZnX07]

wow tough but changing the past can result in dramatic changes i mean i the world could of been taken over by some one even better then hilter so i wouldnt kill hilter and he wasnt born evil its just that is child hood was bad like everything that was treated him bad was a jews doing and it just lead up to his conclusion that jews are the fault of everything

.:tony:.

[twelveislands]

The world could be a completely different place if World War II never happened. I wouldn't kill baby Hitler because this stuff happens for a reason and benefits someone somewhere in the future. I doubt he was born evil either, he was bought up to have them beliefs he did.

[ryfitaDF]

no one is born evil. that's a fairy tale.people are molded into who they are by their socail surroundings.

and, if your idea of time travel is the same as mine, if we didn't have the holocaust to look back to in shame, some world leader will do it anyway. maybe with even more dead than the final solution.

[XoJennaoX]

though you cant change history. the answer is yes i would kill hitler. i might've killed one person but i prevented the muder of millions of innocent people.

Exactly why i would too...you can't change everything bad in the world but how could you not try and save the millions that were tortured and killed and not to mention the millions of sufferers and the effects that his legacy still have on millions today. If some people had just one day in a concentration camp they might change their mind about killing him.

no i dont think that Hitler was born evil... in my opinion i dont think anyone is... it's just the enviroment they grew up in

Hmm.....If i grew up in the same exact environment as Hitler i strongly doubt i would become just like him....i might be racist if i grew up in his environment, but i do not have the ability to persuade, rule, and force as hitler did.. and those are innate qualities that cannot be taught to me. So are you saying that anyone can become hitler as long as they grow up in the same environment? i think it's more than that. There are only a select few of those people in this world that have that ability, so why not try and limit them.

[Spirited Away]

So are you saying that anyone can become hitler as long as they grow up in the same environment?

We'll never know, will we?

Quite a number of behavorial psychologists, such as BF Skinner and John B Watson, believed the oposite. In fact, they believe that they could train babies to become lawyers, doctors... etc. Of course, to balance things out there are also well-learned individuals who'll agree with you that Hitler's... evil was innate rather than learned.

No, I'm not arguing anything, I'm only pointing out that we cannot give your question a definite answer, until the nature vs nurture controversy reaches a conclusion.

[twelveislands]

though you cant change history. the answer is yes i would kill hitler. i might've killed one person but i prevented the muder of millions of innocent people.

But if you killed Hitler there may of been another leader like him but worse who killed more innocent people. That's why you should 'meddle' with the past or something like that since you don't know that it would end up turning out good or bad.

[racoons > you]

no one is born evil. personalyl, if i had the power to go back in time, i woul dhave removed him from the influences of his youh

or alter some of the circumstances which allowed him to come to power... the treaty of versailles, enablement act, etc.

[WinterNights2]

I would have killed him so fast it's not a joke, even if he WASN'T Hitler. Honestly, if you wen't back in time, i would have done it. As for the nanny? Kill her to, killing myself? Heck no, he isn't worth it just kill him another way.

[pandamonium]

no i am not saying that anyone can become hitler as long as they grow up in the same envirmoment he did.  although it's entirely possible but you said urself that hitler grew up with his abusive, racist father and his weak, ineffective mother. . .
he was influence with whatever surrounded him what his father might have thought him.

just depends what kind of a person you are. maybe hitler had lack of confidence and did whatever he was told...

this is funny cause i saw this same exact show on the twlight zone . and this chick went back in time to kill him but the maid found another baby and that was the ending of the show but it meant that anotehr baby took hitlers place but it was just a different baby he still had the same father. so the person to kill would be the father.

but i dont think its right to kill baby hitler i cant type in reasons now but i will do it when i come back.

[XoJennaoX]

no i am not saying that anyone can become hitler as long as they grow up in the same envirmoment he did.  although it's entirely possible but you said urself that hitler grew up with his abusive, racist father and his weak, ineffective mother. . .
he was influence with whatever surrounded him what his father might have thought him.

just depends what kind of a person you are. maybe hitler had lack of confidence and did whatever he was told...

ok...... but what makes up what kind of person you are? thats the major question. is is your environment? - which in that case means anyone can become hilter..or are you born the kind of person you are...or both are possible factors? i'm not trying to argue with you because i don't know either...... but for some reason it doesn't make sense to me to blame Hitler's environment while also saying his environment caused him to be the person he became, because then anybody could have became hitler, reguardless.

no one is born evil. personalyl, if i had the power to go back in time, i woul dhave removed him from the influences of his youh

or alter some of the circumstances which allowed him to come to power... the treaty of versailles, enablement act, etc.

again, you are still just - you. You do not have power of any kind. Is it realistic to say you could of done these things?

[Ninja X]

Kill baby hitler. Expect worse things to happen now that you lowered yourself to his soon-to-be future.

[sadolakced acid]

hitler was not evil at birth.

it was the great war that made him evil.

[Shattered_Hope]

I think that he or anyone else was not born evil.....I guess he was raised by people who hated Jews or something happened that caused him to hate them...

[sadolakced acid]

hitler didn't hate jews.

hitler blamed them because he could.
plus, there was already anti-semiticism.

still is today.

[ikayto]

I agree with most of the people up there, leave history alone. Just think about it guys, if Hitler never came to power there'd be no world war II to snap the U.S. and the world out of the Great Depression. The U.S. was already on a downward spiral to complete failure near the end of the 1930s.

There are a billion possibilities that could have happened if Hitler didnt come to power and i for one dont want to mess w/ it.

[cocoalightning27]

Couldn't we take him and raise him and make him FIGHT evil instead of fighting GOOD???

I don't think Hitler was born evil...it's how he grew up and what he saw

[XoJennaoX]

If hitler was in a family that consists a mother that takes good care of him, and a father that isn't racist and doesn't discriminate jews or people in other religion. Its less likely that he (hitler) would hate those people and kill them.
Cuz no one told him all the bad things the jews have done.

i agree with you.

But since hitlers enviroment had violence. Discrimination and racism he was influenced by what's happening around him and would later on cause him to hate them.

I agree also

It depends what kind of a person is. . . If the person is like hitler and then grew up in the same enviroment he did then yes its possible.

Exactly, you keep saying this but the problem is - what makes you the type of person you are?

[sammi rules you]

GREAT topic.

i think if he wasn't brought up the way he was, he wouldn't have been so extreme, but his antisemitism would probably have occurred anyway.

[racoons > you]

again, you are still just - you. You do not have power of any kind. Is it realistic to say you could of done these things?

none of it is realistic... thats the point of a hypothetical situation.

my point was that rather than killing hitler, it would have been more effective to alter theh circumstances which lead him to become a murderous dictator

[XoJennaoX]

none of it is realistic... thats the point of a hypothetical situation.

my point was that rather than killing hitler, it would have been more effective to alter theh circumstances which lead him to become a murderous dictator

hmmm i understand and everything that this is a hypothetical situation and i agree that your actions would be better.... but again you have to take the premises as they are....in other words you can't try and change cicumstances. you only have the power to do one thing....kill him or not.......i know it really sucks but to be logical in philosophy you must.

[racoons > you]

but again you have to take the premises as they are....in other words you can't try and change cicumstances

you didnt say that in the first post :hamer:

ah, well, in that case, then yes i would kill him.

Iactura paucourm serva multos

[xXYouMeBedNowXx]

Here's my point. There is something that came out of the Holocaust. Human nature learns through pain, by error and mistake, and we learn from that mistake by avoiding ourselves from doing it. Millions of people died, cities lost, families destroyed, but they have purpose. To say the truth, the Holocaust boosted society's progress by showing the extent of pain. I am not justifying what he did, and I am not saying that those lives, the things he destroyed should have been destroyed. I am simply stating that, yes, even though the things he did were horrible, the legacy that he left, we learned something from it.

[racoons > you]

Here's my point. There is something that came out of the Holocaust. Human nature learns through pain, by error and mistake, and we learn from that mistake by avoiding ourselves from doing it. Millions of people died, cities lost, families destroyed, but they have purpose. To say the truth, the Holocaust boosted society's progress by showing the extent of pain. I am not justifying what he did, and I am not saying that those lives, the things he destroyed should have been destroyed. I am simply stating that, yes, even though the things he did were horrible, the legacy that he left, we learned something from it.

so, given the choice, you would still allow the holocaust to occur?

[xXYouMeBedNowXx]

good question. But it's going to be a mixed answer.

Yes.
It made progress in civilization, a deeper understanding in the value of life, of the human mind, society, and equality.

No.
For the obvious statistics of death, torment, genocide, and racism inflicted upon the world.

==================

I am leaning toward Yes
I think I would have allowed the Holocaust to continue on. Not because I want to see millions of innocent lives go wrong and be broken apart and have evil inflict half of the world, but because of what we learn from it. Sometimes, we can't really appreciate something until it is gone, even if it is the most dear and precious thing we hold closest to our heart.

[Ington]

There are two conditions.

1. If you're in that time, you can't kill him. He hasn't done anything yet.

2. If you're going back in time, it would be justified in the original time, but not in the time you're visiting.

However, we don't time travel yet.

[racoons > you]

I am leaning toward Yes
I think I would have allowed the Holocaust to continue on. Not because I want to see millions of innocent lives go wrong and be broken apart and have evil inflict half of the world, but because of what we learn from it. Sometimes, we can't really appreciate something until it is gone, even if it is the most dear and precious thing we hold closest to our heart.

but who knows what those millions of people who died wouold have helped society to learn and grow towards.

i mean, einstein barely escaped the holocaust. how many others like him weren't so lucky?

[XoJennaoX]

There are two conditions.

1. If you're in that time, you can't kill him. He hasn't done anything yet.

2. If you're going back in time, it would be justified in the original time, but not in the time you're visiting.

However, we don't time travel yet.

that is the whole point of this hypothetical situation! YOU know what the future will be...no one else does....he is innocent at that point in time...but again YOU will know the outcome. In other words for me it would be justified to kill him, because i know who he is going to grow up to be...even though no one else in that point in time would agree with me.

[xXYouMeBedNowXx]

Do you think it's possible to instead, change him somehow so that he won't do what he will do? Rather, instead, of killing him?

[XoJennaoX]

I am leaning toward Yes
I think I would have allowed the Holocaust to continue on. Not because I want to see millions of innocent lives go wrong and be broken apart and have evil inflict half of the world, but because of what we learn from it. Sometimes, we can't really appreciate something until it is gone, even if it is the most dear and precious thing we hold closest to our heart.

Did we really learn from it?....that always seems to be our excuse when something goes wrong...to look for the good in the outcome. Sorry if i don't agree that not much "good" came out of the holocaust...it is not like the world suddenly learned its lesson.....genocide still happens everyday!

To your last post : You again are still YOU...one person...what can you do to change the outcome? it is almost impossible.

[Ington]

But if you were in that time, you wouldn't know what was going to happen.

[XoJennaoX]

But if you were in that time, you wouldn't know what was going to happen.

your traveling BACK into that time...you know what you know today. read the first post

[pandamonium]

i think that if hitler was killed as a baby or someone changed his environment that there would still be someone out there to do the same exact job.

"the gun was loaded already and all hitler needed to do was pull the trigger"

way before hitler was born the church's fourth lateran council in 1215 required jews to wear a distinctive badge on their clothing to determine who the "christ killers" were.As all you guys know the badge was the Star of David. from then on they just kept making jews inferior to everyone else by making laws. some laws consisted of:

1 prohibition of sex with christians
2 jews and crhistians not permitted to eat together
3 not permiited to show themselves out side during passion week
4 jews obliged to pay taxes for support of the church.

i mean those laws were built to descriminate jews . and hitler wasnt even born.

then later on martin luther was outraged and wanted the "expulsion" of jews

after they stated that the jews were "christ killers" and God never punished them .... so if God didnt punish them who was? so they took it upon themselves to punish the jews.

now seeing how all of that took place before hitler was born some one still could of pulled the trigger if baby hitler was killed. i mean someone form that time period could of still done the same thing.

[xXYouMeBedNowXx]

Did we really learn from it?....that always seems to be our excuse when something goes wrong...to look for the good in the outcome. Sorry if i don't agree that not much "good" came out of the holocaust...it is not like the world suddenly learned its lesson.....genocide still happens everyday!

Again, I am not justifying the Holocaust by saying we learned something from it, and yes, we did. Genocide happens every day. Right. We have murders and they've been convicted and thrown to jail. Others still happen every day. I didn't say that the Holocaust would stop genocide comepletely. But we finally understand why and why we cannot tolerate it at all. That is our lesson. Tolerance. Can't you agree that society has made a siginificant change since WWII?

To your last post : You again are still YOU...one person...what can you do to change the outcome? it is almost impossible.

Hitler was just him. Only him. Look what he did.

[XoJennaoX]

Again, I am not justifying the Holocaust by saying we learned something from it, and yes, we did. Genocide happens every day. Right. We have murders and they've been convicted and thrown to jail. Others still happen every day.
Can't you agree that society has made a siginificant change since WWII?

You mean society as in American society...yes.

I didn't say that the Holocaust would stop genocide comepletely. But we finally understand why and why we cannot tolerate it at all. That is our lesson. Tolerance.

The world has not learned tolerance though. It seems because i would be "meddling with the past" it would mess things up. So in other words the holocaust was fated? I don't understand...of course things would have a different outcome. You said because of the holocaust we finally understand why we cannot tolerate this. Are we that unlogical as human beings that a mistake needs to be made, like the holocaust, for everyone to understand? I hope not.

Hitler was just him. Only him. Look what he did.

Well if you think you could somehow change the past, other than killing him, i'd like to hear how you would go about doing it?

[heyyfrankie]

i don't think he was born evil. he was just a product of his surroundings. his dad was evil so that is all that he knew. he thought he was just doing the right thing. i honestly don't know if i would kill myself in order to kill the baby hitler. i would just probably take him away from his home and teach him right from wrong. but we just don't know how history would of been if WWII hadn't happened...

[xXYouMeBedNowXx]

The world has not learned tolerance though. It seems because i would be "meddling with the past" it would mess things up. So in other words the holocaust was fated? I don't understand...of course things would have a different outcome. You said because of the holocaust we finally understand why we cannot tolerate this. Are we that unlogical as human beings that a mistake needs to be made, like the holocaust, for everyone to understand? I hope not.

Unfortunately, for millions of people: Yes.

Well if you think you could somehow change the past, other than killing him, i'd like to hear how you would go about doing it?

Would it be necessary to kill him, I should have said. Rather than invoking, because honestly, I really don't know.

[XoJennaoX]

how do you expect me to know the answer to that? I presume that even experts don't know the exact answer for that.

Exactly..... thats why we can't completely blame his environment.

[XoJennaoX]

no i dont think that Hitler was born evil... in my opinion i dont think anyone is... it's just the enviroment they grew up in...

you should have been more clear the first time.... instead of just saying this....sorry that i misunderstood you.

[daintyme]

this may sound werid, but if given the chance, i would not kill baby hitler. if he was killed, the world would not be able to experience the horrors and distinguish what is wrong and what is right. and if he was disposed, that would call for an equally hated and evil person or someone that is even more extreme! but perhaps we could have altered some circumstances...

[Trolling]

this may sound werid, but if given the chance, i would not kill baby hitler. if he was killed, the world would not be able to experience the horrors and distinguish what is wrong and what is right. and if he was disposed, that would call for an equally hated and evil person or someone that is even more extreme! but perhaps we could have altered some circumstances...

I agree... And like someone said from page 1 I think itll alter the U.S cause we were in a depressive state at that time... It is just better not to meddle with time... Homer simpson taught us that when he went back with hes radioactive toaster...

[XoJennaoX]

this may sound werid, but if given the chance, i would not kill baby hitler. if he was killed, the world would not be able to experience the horrors and distinguish what is wrong and what is right. and if he was disposed, that would call for an equally hated and evil person or someone that is even more extreme! but perhaps we could have altered some circumstances...

So becasue of the holocaust we now can distinguish right from wrong? i don't think so. Hopefully we already knew what was right from wrong, and if you havn't noticed the world does not learn from its mistakes very well.

We already can tell who would come to power in Germany if Hitler was never born by looking at his predecessors....and i don't see a worse outcome then under Hitler's reign, you can't get much worse than that. Remeber his invention was the concentration and death camps after all, he is the mastermind behind the holocaust, other political nazis were simply his aids.

I agree... And like someone said from page 1 I think itll alter the U.S cause we were in a depressive state at that time... It is just better not to meddle with time... Homer simpson taught us that when he went back with hes radioactive toaster...

wow...i guess i'm shocked to see so many people would not kill him. Again this "meddling with time" bit comes up again. Then why care about our future if it is just going to happen the way it is suppose to anyway? if thats how you look at the holocaust, then going to war in Iraq was our fate, and everything in history was fated.

Maybe my defense is steaming from a discussion i had with two survivors of the holocaust that live near me. If i had the chance to kill Hitler i would, even if it is solely for the purpose this couple would no longer have to suffer everyday and feel guilty that they made it out alive, then i would just for them. But i know there are millions that had to suffer and are still suffering, not just two.