Prayer In School, are you against or for prayer in school Options

[chelle]

ok. so i'm doing an english project for school on the oh so controversial topic of prayer in school. and since we LOVE to debate ( ) i was wondering what everyone's stand in this is.

Pro School Prayer Positions:
1)Our Government is based on Religious Principles
2)The Free Exercise Clause Protects School Prayer
3)Banning School Prayer Leads to Moral Decline
4)Majority Should Rule

Anti School Prayer Positions:
1)State-Sponsored School Prayer is Unconstitutional
2)Prayer in School is Already Legal
3)State-Sponsored Prayer Will Lead to Religious Intolerance
4)Moral Decline and School Prayer are Unrelated
TO SEE THESE ARGUMENTS IN DEPTH GO HERE


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am against school prayer. big surprise. lol. public schools exist to educate, not to proselytize. children in public schools are a captive audience. making prayer an official part of the school day is coercive and invasive. what 5, 8, or 10-year-old could view prayers recited as part of class routine as "voluntary"? religion is private, and schools are public, so it is appropriate that the two should not mix. our schools are for all children, whether catholic, baptist, quaker, atheist, buddhist, wiccan, jewish, agnostic. the schools are supported by all taxpayers, and therefore should be free of religious observances and coercion. when religion has invaded our public school system, it has singled out the lone jewish student, the children in the minority. families who protest state/church violations in our public schools invariably experience persecution. it was common prior to the court decision against school prayer to put non-religious or nonorthodox children in places of detention during bible-reading or prayer recitation. the children of supreme court plaintiffs against religion in schools were beaten up on the way to and from school, their families subjected to community harassment and death threats for speaking out in defense of a constitutional right. we know from history how harmful and destructive religion is in our public schools. individual, silent, personal prayer never has and never could be outlawed in public schools. it is coercive for schools to schedule worship as an official part of the schoo day, school sports or activities, or to use prayer to formalize graduation ceremonies. such prayers are more "mandatory" than "voluntary." the radical school prayer amendment would negate the first amendment's guarantee against government establishment of religion. most distressing, it would be at the expense of the civil rights of children, america's most vulnerable class. it would attack the heart of the bill of rights, which safeguards the rights of the individual from the tyranny of the majority. those in the minority would be compelled to conform to a religion or ritual n which they disbelieve, to suffer the humiliation and imposition of submitting to a daily religious exercise against their will, or be singled out by orthodox classmates and teachers as "heretics" or "sinners" for not participating. should the government become "prayer police"? the school prayer debate seems calculated to deflect attention away from the more pressing economic questions facing our nation. some politicians like to blame everything bad in america upon the absence of school prayer. it is a quick fix. it is irrational to charge that the complicated sociological problems facing our everchanging population stem from lack of prayer in schools. our political system is a democratic republic in which we use majority vote to elect certain officials or pass laws. but, we do not use majority vote to decide what religion, if any, our neighbors must follow. imposing prayer-by-majority-vote is flagrant and insensitive abuse of school authority. such schools should be teaching students about the purpose of the bill of rights, instead of teaching them to be religious bullies.

[*Kathleen*]

Heh I don't have time to read that long paragraph, but I will, but I just don't mind it as long as I'm not forced to. I'm an atheist, too.

[*krnxswat*]

I think having a seperate time just for prayer during school hours is useless, because not everyone follows the same religion. I personally pray before I eat my lunch in school, and it's totally upto the people whether they want to pray or not.

[soadturner]

You might think I might be for it, seeing i go to a Catholic School and dont have a choice to pray

But I say that if you have prayer, have the option to not pray, and allows all relegions to pray....just because Christians are the majority dosent mean we can disrespect the minority

[chelle]

I think having a seperate time just for prayer during school hours is useless, because not everyone follows the same religion. I personally pray before I eat my lunch in school, and it's totally upto the people whether they want to pray or not.

i totally agree.

[CloudUnionX]

It would be nice for some people to have. But what about all the rest that dont follow that religion, or people that dont even beleive in having a religion? I think its useless when you look through all the pros and cons.

[xjjajeengx]

oh we had a debate worth 200 on this before@!!
like we all took a paper and wrote if we were pro or anti, and then like our s.s teacher randomly passed them out.
i chose pro, but i had to debate for the anti side... but i ended up getting 250 points instead of 200 because i was the only one speaking out for the anti side... and my side won MWOOHAHAHA
anwanys, im pro for it. not in the mood for being all like supportive of my details... but okay. haha ^^

[*CEP*]

I say no. Because not everyone's Christian you know? They have Christian/Catholic schools for that.

But I think it's stupid how they tried to take out " under God " from the Pledge of Allegiance. I think that's just stupid.

- Chinkieeyedpnoi

[Dr3aMeR]

I SAY YES. WE NEED PRAYER AT SCHOOLS.

this country was made on the principles of christianity and we should always have stuck my them. sometimes i wish i could go back in time to the Constitutional COnvention of 1787 and make the founding fathers be more specific cause i hate it that people say the constitution says its wrong. "separation of church and state" haha. dumb people who use that as an excuse. the people who made the constituion were christians in one denomination or another...they would have been okay with that fact that there are different types of christianity HOWEVER they would not have been okay with other religions especially taking PRAYER out of SCHOOLS. they might have let the other religions be free to worship on their own but i hardly doubt that they would have wanted prayer out of schools. this country needs to go back to its christian roots.. im tired of people who try to do otherwise

ALSO WHEN they wrote separation of church and state they meant it in the point that the government couldn't stop a form of the Christian denomination. they probably would want them to stop the weird religions that has come into this country.

I mean seriously. if they truly truly wanted separation of church and state and took that literally as some dumb puck holes do now why did they still allow school prayers to go on

dunno know for sure but you ever think of why the Kennedy family has no heir now...ever think about which president was in office when the decision came to stop school prayers...it should make you think

so that is my topic...about the fact what has heppened to the kennedy family in realation cause there is already a topic for school prayer

[noaccounthere]

I say no. Because not everyone's Christian you know? They have Christian/Catholic schools for that.

But I think it's stupid how they tried to take out " under God " from the Pledge of Allegiance. I think that's just stupid.

- Chinkieeyedpnoi

However I believe it is TOTTALLY UNFAIR that my parents taxes go to funding public schools and the government does not fund Private/catholic/christian/jewish/muslim schools out there.

And its a big $7000 tuition every year for me. I believe its unfair that the public school system does not give options to religious studies in school and are basically restricting people optional education to their faith. Notice i said optional.

Also, prayers said effectivly well will only take a minute of class time. In fact thats how it is here in my school it only takes 1 minute to make a short prayer. The prayers are generic that they would fit under all religions. The students would not be obliged to say prayers but just listen silently or choose to ignore if they are athiest. But Its not fair when a majority of our nation is of some form of religous faith to be stripped of the oppertunity to encorporate their faith in their daily lives which they spend most of the time in school because of the rather few non religous persons.

THen again to what i said above. The world isnt fair. And thank you other californians for voting no on that prop. that would allow vouchers to go to parents in private schools. A return of $2000 would've helped alot.

[Just_Dream]

I think having a seperate time just for prayer during school hours is useless, because not everyone follows the same religion. I personally pray before I eat my lunch in school, and it's totally upto the people whether they want to pray or not.

You're really religious, huh?

And also, prayer? What about those people who are NOT Christian or Catholic? I'm Buddhist, and I follow different beliefs. Now, if it was a prayer of a variety of religions, I guess it's okay. Personally, I don't care, because I'm not that much of a religious person. I haven't been to a temple in a while, and I only go once in a while. I've only been to one temple ONCE this year =T

So it wouldn't really mean anything to me. But that's just my opinion

[kevinma03]

"dunno know for sure but you ever think of why the Kennedy family has no heir now...ever think about which president was in office when the decision came to stop school prayers...it should make you think"

Are you implying God had something to do with it?

[Dr3aMeR]

I am not saying that God DID do that because i do not know for sure

what im saying is that yes He could have a part in it...a God that strikes a person dead for lying and cheating will have no problem doing that to someone who took his faith out of schools

[kevinma03]

Um... that would imply God is vengeful. And from what I've learned from Christians, God doesn't kill you, but he will judge you at the day of judgment. Cuz, what happens if I lie and cheat but then repent for my sins through Jesus? If God struck me down before I had the opportunity to repent then that doesn't seem very fair. And as far as I know God is just.

[Dr3aMeR]

The God that struck down a man and woman (husband and wife) dead for lying and cheating were in the old testament days. Don't know the chapter. And see aren't you glad that He gave Jesus to die for us so you have the opportunity to do just that?

[kevinma03]

So that means God shouldn't have anything to do with the Kennedys

[xjjajeengx]

why did you make a new topic for this when all you had to do was post on the prayer post? merging topic.

[Dr3aMeR]

Thats what "predestination" is

some people are saved and some are damned to hell

its a hard concept to grasp because you hear that God is suppose to be just and predistination doesn't seem like it is just. but that is just the way it works...so people that even heard about christianity and had a chance to become Christian..congrats because you had a chance and its up to you if you made the right choice or not

as for the Kennedy's, If God killed them because he wanted to punish and make an example of them so be it. The president was Catholic so they all had their chances to repent and what not. And what is there to say that God can't kill you just because you repent. He might love you so much that He wants you to be with you in heaven right?


xjjajeengx
my bad...but i normally don't read the posts that anyone writes beside for the topic and a few after and the last person to comment anda few before...i mean who cares about the middle...i thought most people did that and no one would read the kenedy thing...and there you butted into my posts, topic again

[xjjajeengx]

uh... just doing my job? sorry...

[kevinma03]

Thats what "predestination" is

some people are saved and some are damned to hell

its a hard concept to grasp because you hear that God is suppose to be just and predistination doesn't seem like it is just. but that is just the way it works...so people that even heard about christianity and had a chance to become Christian..congrats because you had a chance and its up to you if you made the right choice or not

as for the Kennedy's, If God killed them because he wanted to punish and make an example of them so be it. The president was Catholic so they all had their chances to repent and what not. And what is there to say that God can't kill you just because you repent. He might love you so much that He wants you to be with you in heaven right?


xjjajeengx
my bad...but i normally don't read the posts that anyone writes beside for the topic and a few after and the last person to comment anda few before...i mean who cares about the middle...i thought most people did that and no one would read the kenedy thing...and there you butted into my posts, topic again

So people that have not heard about jesus and couldn't repent are going to hell? And to what degree of predestination is there? If God knows every minute movement we are doing now and in the future , then he already knows whether we will be saved or not. That would mean he puts people onto this earth knowing full well they will be damned to hell.

[stryker76]

I am atheist...and a prayer in school im sorry isnt right...there are soo many religions that you have to pray for each one it would talk up soo much time....and teacher always complain there is no time....plus i dont go to school to be preached to if i wanted that i would was my butt up early sunday morning and go to the chrurch down the street...DAMN THERE BELLS!!!!.....But if a school wants to have a prayer then set it aside in a separate room..and liet those that want to go...join

[starling]

I say no. Because not everyone's Christian you know? They have Christian/Catholic schools for that.

not everyone's Christian / Catholic, but no one's saying that if you pray, it has to be a Christian / Catholic prayer. It's up to everyone to decide how they want to pray, or if they even want to. In my school, we had a moment of silence every morning. That way the kids who wanted to pray could, and the kids who didn't want to didn't have to, they could use that time to collect their thoughts or what have you.

However, I feel that there are certain morals and standards from religion that would benefit everyone. "Thou shall not cheat, steal, lie, murder, covet thy neighbor's possessions..."(to paraphrase.) yeah. good things to know. especially in today's society.

This country was founded on certain religious standards. it's says 'In God We Trust" on the money, and every state thanks God or another 'Almighty power' in their constitution. But not one of them says "In the Christian God We Trust." or "In the Jewish God We Trust." It's up to you to decide what you believe in-- I'm not forcing you to pray to my God. But don't take my choice to pray in school away from me.

[kevinma03]

I think that having moments of silence for people that choose to pray can pray is fine. But if the principal hops onto the intercom and starts a Christian prayer then that's going too far.

[xsnowxangelx425]

we have the "moment of silence" in school here.. its supposed to be reflection or prayer time.. I am a christian and a few years ago i probably would have argued that prayer should be in school. However, now that i am older i realize why it isnt. I mean, if we prayed, we'd have to pray to God, mohammed, allah [sp?], and ALL other gods and deitys[sp?] that everyone else in the school belived in. And, the kids who have no religion would be forced to pray when its against what they believe in also. So, i think that the moment of silence is a good thing to have. The ppl that want to pray are allowed and the others can just sit there and continue with their work...

[Dr3aMeR]

Some schools don't even have the moment of silence

And also those people with no religion or not Christian they don't have to participate. they could just sit there and just sit there.

[likethestardust]

haha thats so funny.... i just did my report on this and we have the exact same information... did you search google!?!? well my speech went over well and i hope yours does too...

[starling]

I mean, if we prayed, we'd have to pray to God, mohammed, allah [sp?], and ALL other gods and deitys[sp?] that everyone else in the school belived in.

Everyone assumes that when you are praying to "God" that it's the Christian God. Doens't have to be that way. There are nondenominational prayers out there, ones that cover all the bases. When you pray, pray to whatever God you believe in. I'm not forcing you to pray to the Christian God, and no one's forcing me to pray to Mohammed, so... everyone can do their own thing.

[iloveyou07]

I say yes there should be prayer in schools. Freedom of Religion is one of the reasons this nation was founded. To take that out is like to take out a reason for why this nation was founed. I wish there was a time for prayer because God knows what I go through at school and it would be nice to have some prayer time for me to be one on one with God. However, to tell you the truth NOBODY is going to tell me when to pray and when not to pray.

[DisneyPrincessKa...]

Honestly, I'm for it. I go to a Catholic school and we pray every morning. Maybe it's because I'm so used to it, but I really don't mind taking 2 minutes out of my morning to pray.

One problem with prayer in schools though is that people are very rude. They talk, wisper, giggle, bounce the bleachers, make faces, and do almost anything to be rude. I'm in 8th grade and some people can't sit still to pray. When you're younger you don't concentrate as hard as you do when you're older, but then is it fair for some people to pray and others not to just because of age?

Maybe, they should just give people time in the morning, right before classes start. You could pray, if you don't want to, you can just sit there for a minute or two. I don't think that praying is bad though, and I think that most kids in public schools could definatly stand a prayer once a day.

Basically, don't make it mandatory, but don't rule it out completly.

[*AngelicEyz00*]

I'm a lil opposed to it. You shouldn't be praying in school. Pray at home or at church=\

[m@dcow]

eh.. is this about the pledge of alligence because that's another topic... anyway... i have never really prayed at school... i'm atheist...
and no one forces us... eh.. it's not a big problem like the pledge

[Mireh]

Well it depends if the students are religious are not I suppose...

[DisneyPrincessKa...]

eh.. is this about the pledge of alligence because that's another topic... anyway... i have never really prayed at school... i'm atheist...
and no one forces us... eh.. it's not a big problem like the pledge

I have a question for you. Does prayer offend you? I've gotten the impression that public school does have prayer because it might offend people, so I was just curious if you are offended or even affected when people pray around you.

[noaccounthere]

I am atheist...and a prayer in school im sorry isnt right...there are soo many religions that you have to pray for each one it would talk up soo much time....

most of you still lose the point. Prayers can be said generally with no specific ties to any religion and support most religions. Our school prayer usually goes somewhat like this: Dear God, please let our students continue to strive well in their studies and continue to remain focused on their daily goals. (note, doesnt take that long) As im concerned msot religions have a God if not gods or goddesses and a prayer of petition is a part of many religions. May not be ritual or traditional but it does agree with most religions practiced in the USA. Unless theres a specific religion which specifically states praying is against it's faith.

As someone said this country was built to practice religion freely as you choose. WHat were doing now is stripping this made right from not allowing prayers for those who want/need/support it. Those who dont believe or dont want to do it can plainly not say or believe in it. Everyone's statisfied.

[chelle]

I have a question for you.  Does prayer offend you?  I've gotten the impression that public school does have prayer because it might offend people, so I was just curious if you are offended or even affected when people pray around you.

prayer does offend me personally. if i wanted to see and hear people pray then i would go to church. like i stated before. religion is private, school is public. the two should not mix. now if you go to a private school and don't like the fact that there's prayer then there's really nothing you can do about it because you choose to go there and it's a PRIVATE school. it has it's own set of "special" rules. now, if people pray around me and do it silently then i don't care. it's the same thing as me meditating and chanting to the bountiful goddess. it would offend you. the only way i'm against prayer in school is if they do it how they did "back in the day" (that sounds so funny ) and the principal comes over the intercom and reads a scripture from the bible and a prayer. it is impossible to compose a prayer that will reflect the religious beliefs of all students. even non-sectarian prayer infringes upon students who follow no religion. at my school we have the moment of silence and it doesn't bother me AT ALL. and it's funny because just today i was looking at all the people in my english class who said they want prayer in school and during this moment they were talking or doing classwork.

But I think it's stupid how they tried to take out " under God " from the Pledge of Allegiance. I think that's just stupid.

"i pledge allegiance to the flage of the united states of america, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
the "godless" pledge of allegiance, as it was recited by generations of school children before congress inserted a religious phrase, "under god," in 1954. 1954?!?! the congress had no right to do that. separation of church and state! so i think it should be taken out. i don't think it'll happen though...

I SAY YES. WE NEED PRAYER AT SCHOOLS.
this country was made on the principles of christianity and we should always have stuck my them. sometimes i wish i could go back in time to the Constitutional COnvention of 1787 and make the founding fathers be more specific cause i hate it that people say the constitution says its wrong. "separation of church and state" haha. dumb people who use that as an excuse. the people who made the constituion were christians in one denomination or another...they would have been okay with that fact that there are different types of christianity HOWEVER they would not have been okay with other religions especially taking PRAYER out of SCHOOLS. they might have let the other religions be free to worship on their own but i hardly doubt that they would have wanted prayer out of schools. this country needs to go back to its christian roots.. im tired of people who try to do otherwise
ALSO WHEN they wrote separation of church and state they meant it in the point that the government couldn't stop a form of the Christian denomination. they probably would want them to stop the weird religions that has come into this country.
I mean seriously. if they truly truly wanted separation of church and state and took that literally as some dumb puck holes do now why did they still allow school prayers to go on

OH MY GODDESS!do you hear yourself when you speak. i have never heard such ridiculous or ignorant arguments. ah, this shall be fun. first of all, you can not interpret what our forefathers meant and what they did not mean. it says "separation of church and state" there are no loopholes. 2ndly, i hope you understand a little about government because i'm going to explain it to you. the establishment clause proscribes the establishment of religion IN GENERAL-including religious practices. since prayer is a religious exercise, state-supported prayer amounts to the establishment of a religious practice and therefore is unconstitutional! you basically are saying what are forefathers would have allowed and would not have liked. how can you possibly know any of that? that's right... you can't. you're naive and letting your belief clog your mind and ears and all you can see is your opinion and no one else's. lol.

However I believe it is TOTTALLY UNFAIR that my parents taxes go to funding public schools and the government does not fund Private/catholic/christian/jewish/muslim schools out there.
And its a big $7000 tuition every year for me. I believe its unfair that the public school system does not give options to religious studies in school and are basically restricting people optional education to their faith. Notice i said optional.
Also, prayers said effectivly well will only take a minute of class time. In fact thats how it is here in my school it only takes 1 minute to make a short prayer. The prayers are generic that they would fit under all religions. The students would not be obliged to say prayers but just listen silently or choose to ignore if they are athiest. But Its not fair when a majority of our nation is of some form of religous faith to be stripped of the oppertunity to encorporate their faith in their daily lives which they spend most of the time in school because of the rather few non religous persons.

your school chose to separate itself from the government and become a private school. it is a PRIVATE school. therefore it is in no way unfair that the goverment doesn't fund it. taxes are already high enuff as it is. if we were to fund the rich kids' schools as well then it would be financially draining...
i agree with you on the religious studies though. i wish they offered religious classes in high school.
prayers WILL NOT fit under all religions. what about atheists??? to subject someone to listen to prayers that they don't believe in is so selfish to even suggest. you have 16+ hours outside of school to pray. so there goes your "i spend most of the time in school" argument...

i found something today that was very interesting...
even jesus was against school prayer
"thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men... but thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret." - Matt. 6:5-6

here are faith groups that oppose government-sponsored prayer in public schools:
national council of churches; american baptist churches, usa; christian church (disciples of christ); the episcopal church; evangelical luteran church in america; friends committee on national legislation; mennonite central committee usa; presbyterian church (usa); general conference of seventh day adventists; united church of christ; united methodist church; unitarian universalist association; american jewish congress; anti-defamation league; central conference of american rabbis; national council of jewish women; north american council of muslim women; soka gakkai international--usa.

[chelle]

most of you still lose the point. Prayers can be said generally with no specific ties to any religion and support most religions. Our school prayer usually goes somewhat like this: Dear God, please let our students continue to strive well in their studies and continue to remain focused on their daily goals. (note, doesnt take that long) As im concerned msot religions have a God if not gods or goddesses and a prayer of petition is a part of many religions. May not be ritual or traditional but it does agree with most religions practiced in the USA. Unless theres a specific religion which specifically states praying is against it's faith.

As someone said this country was built to practice religion freely as you choose. WHat were doing now is stripping this made right from not allowing prayers for those who want/need/support it. Those who dont believe or dont want to do it can plainly not say or believe in it. Everyone's statisfied.

athiests do not believe in a god so your prayer would not work. no prayer would work and satisfy every single person....

and just because "most" religions have a god or goddess does not mean prayer should be in school. the only time majority rules in this country is in politics. goddess. i'd hate to think what u people would do if homosexuals outnumbered heterosexuals. lmao. "majority rules" bullshit.

and you can pray!!! just do it silently.

[noaccounthere]

athiests do not believe in a god so your prayer would not work. no prayer would work and satisfy every single person....

and just because "most" religions have a god or goddess does not mean prayer should be in school. the only time majority rules in this country is in politics. goddess. i'd hate to think what u people would do if homosexuals outnumbered heterosexuals. lmao. "majority rules" bullshit.

and you can pray!!! just do it silently.

As I said on my first post...

THEY DONT HAVE TO SAY THE PRAYERS!!! or believe in it!


What schools systems are doing is soley beneficial to Athiests. Allowing a time of prayer would satisfy both. Prayer to some is considered sacred time and should be done in a moment of silence. Its very hard to get silence while doing it silently in a class where a lecture is going on or in break when everyone is moving about, lockers clanking, people talking.

If prayers are said religous peoples are satisfied, and athiest dont have to believe or say anything. Their not being forced to. Its like if you guyz have channel one or morning news. You can watch it if you want to. Or you can just sit there and wait for its over if you dont please. But it still gives the benefit to the people who want to know or watch the news. Same as prayers. You can say them and believe in them as their said. Or you can just sit there and wait till their over if you refuse or dont believe in them. But it still gives the benefit to the people who want to say prayers.

[ANTWON]

There shouldn't be prayer in school. Freedom FROM religion is more like it.

[*Podomaht*]

i like to say, live and let live. if the doods praying leave him alone. he doesnt bother you. so dont bother him. if your a christian and before you eat at lunch you pray. so what? people dont start screaming that hes bothering him.

[*kryogenix*]

I think having a seperate time just for prayer during school hours is useless, because not everyone follows the same religion. I personally pray before I eat my lunch in school, and it's totally upto the people whether they want to pray or not.

i agree too. i pray before taking tests, i wouldn't want to be discriminated against because i pray, but i wouldn't want to force my classmates to pray either.

[darkestdesire]

i dont really think so because people have different religions and may not think it is right or think it is right. I think it is not right because i believe school is more about learning than praying.

[*Podomaht*]

i agree too. i pray before taking tests, i wouldn't want to be discriminated against because i pray, but i wouldn't want to force my classmates to pray either.

word. :] took the words right out of my mouth.

[starling]

people don't want to be forced to pray if they don't believe in God, but who are those same people to say that someone else isn't allowed to pray at all? it's a 'live and let live' situation. no one is ever going to be happy if one thing or another is forced upon them. but don't take the coice to pray away from the people who want to do so.

[KoN_FyOo_aZn]

Im kinna for it and against it... If yooh go to a catholic or religious school then yooh should... but if not then dont!!!

[likeachild]

it doesnt matter!
prayer can never be banned
its like a thought

you cant discriminate against what someone thinks
the only condition is that it has to be silent
so it will not disrupt anyone or offend anyone

The government cannot support or ban religion

it must be neutral to ALL religions

there's a whole list of guidelines in the United States Department of Education website

search google for it

[xjjajeengx]

even jesus was against school prayer
"thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men... but thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret." - Matt. 6:5-6

of course since do not beleive in prayer, you wouldnt understand fully . Jesus is referring this to the hypocrites who try to look all good and holy by fake praying and trying to pray loudly so that people will realize how "holy" they are. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO THE SCHOOL PRAYERS HOWEVER because school prayers are for students who would like to pray at school for school and to be closer with God. not to show off and be hypocritical. and JESUS definetly was NOT against praying in school. did he ever SAY THAT?! no. and besides. desperate times call for desperate measures. like it could almost be the end of the world because it is so chaotic. christians need to pray and ask God for help daily and whenever they possibly can.

sorry if i offended you, but this really ticked me off. if you do not understand the bible, dont repeat what it says and interpret it in such a way that it might confuse fellow christians. To me, this is very insulting.
and also:

presbyterian church (usa);united methodist church; christian church (disciples of christ);

these do not oppose prayer in schools. believe me. all the churches i went to in my life were presbyterian, untied methodiest, or chirsitan church. and believe me, i've been to MANY churches in my lifetime. also, if they opposed prayer in school, why would some of the presbyterian churches encourage prayer at schools by teaching students to do so via bible study? same with christian churches. as a matter of fact, i go to a christian church that is also a christian school. and all of them pray at school, and the church itself proposed a required bible study program for students in high school and junior high to learn how to pray for people and how to pray, period. My church is a HUGE korean christian church, known throughtout korea and many other hucrches look up to our pastor and how much our church has done for other churches, etc. Our church is also one of the largest korean churches and one of the leading in missionary funding and direct missionary sending, church building in other foreign countries, etc. within the lessons, they taought us that even if people discriminate you for praying, you should still pray. true, they said that being hypocritical is wrong and praying just for the sake of fame is being wrong, but if you truly were praying for the sake of praying, you should at school, at home, at church, everywhere and anywhere when you need God's support or you want to thank him, etc.


sorry if im being rela b!tchy and all, but this is how i feel about it

[Co.Oky me]

I was reading most of the posts..and some of ‘em I wanted to show my views or what I thought was right...i can be wrong..so >.<

Um... that would imply God is vengeful. And from what I've learned from Christians, God doesn't kill you, but he will judge you at the day of judgment. Cuz, what happens if I lie and cheat but then repent for my sins through Jesus? If God struck me down before I had the opportunity to repent then that doesn't seem very fair. And as far as I know God is just.

God is the only being who has the RIGHT to be whatever he wants to be. God is just. God is also jealous (stated in Bible) because he has the RIGHT to be. We can’t set rules for Him on what he can or can’t do...or what he will or will not do. I’m not saying that God had to do with any of this striking-down-vengeances, but whatever the reason they dropped dead...we have to leave the options open..and not cross off any possibilities just cause it doesn’t make sense to US.

The God that struck down a man and woman (husband and wife) dead for lying and cheating were in the old testament days. Don't know the chapter. And see aren't you glad that He gave Jesus to die for us so you have the opportunity to do just that?

Old Testament is different. In the old testament it states “An eye for an eye” or something like that..but Jesus came and said exactly the opposite..telling us to “turn the other cheek” So..perhaps Jesus dying wasn’t for us to take the opportunity to be dishonest, but it doesn’t mean Jesus’ death didn’t have any effect on how we are now judged.

here are faith groups that oppose government-sponsored prayer in public schools:
national council of churches; american baptist churches, usa; christian church (disciples of christ); the episcopal church; evangelical luteran church in america; friends committee on national legislation; mennonite central committee usa; presbyterian church (usa); general conference of seventh day adventists; united church of christ; united methodist church; unitarian universalist association; american jewish congress; anti-defamation league; central conference of american rabbis; national council of jewish women; north american council of muslim women; soka gakkai international--usa.

certain christian leaders of those specified Christian faith groups may have opposed prayer in public schools..but how do you know that even the GENERAL people of those groups opposed prayer in school? The big Christian leaders of our time have loud voices..and often drown many others’.

So people that have not heard about jesus and couldn't repent are going to hell? And to what degree of predestination is there? If God knows every minute movement we are doing now and in the future , then he already knows whether we will be saved or not. That would mean he puts people onto this earth knowing full well they will be damned to hell.

like Dr3aMeR said..it’s a REALLY hard concept to grasp..if you want to understand it fully ask a really wise Christian leader...i’m not sure if there are people in this forum that would be able to explain it to you..especially through internet.

And something else I’ve been noticing. It seems as if people are picking out the faults and acts of hypocrisy of those who want prayer in public schools are around that area...welps..BIG NEWS we’re not perfect..you’re not either...

Now..myyy views. ^^ At first I thought this topic was asking if prayer should be allowed AT ALL during school...and of course I voted yes without reading the first post...so sorry for my ignorance. Well, now I think that there shouldn’t be specific prayer-time for the whole school to participate in because a certain prayer-time may remind some to pray but it means nothing when it isn’t being used properly..which is often the case. So, if you choose to pray..goshers..PLEASE PRAY and I think that in putting aside your own social/study/etc. time during school would be a lot more meaningful to you and those who are constantly observing you and your actions. Prayer is a step from religion to relationship. It can’t be forced..and I really don’t see the BIG idea as to why it’s ubberly important in having a separate time for it during school..perhaps it's just me..but i tend to pray a lot better alone....o.O

[*krnxswat*]

So people that have not heard about jesus and couldn't repent are going to hell? And to what degree of predestination is there? If God knows every minute movement we are doing now and in the future , then he already knows whether we will be saved or not. That would mean he puts people onto this earth knowing full well they will be damned to hell.

He gave us choices. We make them; whether it be right or wrong.

[noaccounthere]

Co.Oky me has made some very intelligent statements about the core belief on christianity.

But I suggest all of you before you actually do post ignorant posts about christianity interpretation especialy catholic interpretation and our core belief I urge you to look up the CCC or Catholic Catechism of the Church. DOnt worry it has a nice index or you can go here: www.usccb.org

CCC page on prayer

"2650
Prayer cannot be reduced to the spontaneous outpouring of interior impulse: in order to pray, one must have the will to pray. Nor is it enough to know what the Scriptures reveal about prayer: one must also learn how to pray. Through a living transmission (Sacred Tradition) within "the believing and praying Church,"1 the Holy Spirit teaches the children of God how to pray."

The church also supports that people should not be forced to pray. But, not giving the benefit of school time to allow those who will to pray is indirectly forcing people not to pray.

[angel-roh]

im not against it, but the students that qot no religion...they might be against wit it... buh i dun mind if someone prays in skool... heh............... i dun' usualy pray these days at skool...like my meals...but i pray for my illness and my stomache pain................heh...^^; i dun pray for thankful stuff..but i pray for the pain i have... i think thats not good lols....heh i shuld still thank God...and not complain...but i did complain...so sad

[*CJ1*]

I'm against it because it would be too complicated with all the religions in the world...

[angela]

I guess I'm a bit biased since i go to Catholic School. But , I don't mind people praying in schools.

[tofumonzter]

It's really up to you. Because you can forced others to do it since this is a country of free religion.

[BeyondElite]

well, in my opinion ... YES! So The Big Guy (God) can help us in that days... Im Catholic, Roman Catholic

[katers]

I am for prayer in school. But I dont think it should be forced. If its forced, people will think less of Christians, and there for of Jesus.

[angel-roh]

I think having a seperate time just for prayer during school hours is useless, because not everyone follows the same religion. I personally pray before I eat my lunch in school, and it's totally upto the people whether they want to pray or not.

i so agree wit seonho... it's they choice if they
wana pray or not... hey chelle dun` tell me u talk
behind someonez baq` wen they pray...do u? cus
if u do...i think thats messed up.. heh.. so if u do
that agen...y dun` u jus` say that in ur mind and
not spread it, k?^^;; and it's not bad to pray before
lunch too~

[illyria]

of course since do not beleive in prayer, you wouldnt understand fully . Jesus is referring this to the hypocrites who try to look all good and holy by fake praying and trying to pray loudly so that people will realize how "holy" they are. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO THE SCHOOL PRAYERS HOWEVER because school prayers are for students who would like to pray at school for school and to be closer with God. not to show off and be hypocritical. and JESUS definetly was NOT against praying in school. did he ever SAY THAT?! no. and besides. desperate times call for desperate measures. like it could almost be the end of the world because it is so chaotic. christians need to pray and ask God for help daily and whenever they possibly can.

sorry if i offended you, but this really ticked me off. if you do not understand the bible, dont repeat what it says and interpret it in such a way that it might confuse fellow christians. To me, this is very insulting. 
and also:


these do not oppose prayer in schools. believe me. all the churches i went to in my life were presbyterian, untied methodiest, or chirsitan church. and believe me, i've been to MANY churches in my lifetime. also, if they opposed prayer in school, why would some of the presbyterian churches encourage prayer at schools by teaching students to do so via bible study? same with christian churches. as a matter of fact, i go to a christian church that is also a christian school. and all of them pray at school, and the church itself proposed a required bible study program for students in high school and junior high to learn how to pray for people and how to pray, period. My church is a HUGE korean christian church, known throughtout korea and many other hucrches look up to our pastor and how much our church has done for other churches, etc. Our church is also one of the largest korean churches and one of the leading in missionary funding and direct missionary sending, church building in other foreign countries, etc. within the lessons, they taought us that even if people discriminate you for praying, you should still pray. true, they said that being hypocritical is wrong and praying just for the sake of fame is being wrong, but if you truly were praying for the sake of praying, you should at school, at home, at church, everywhere and anywhere when you need God's support or you want to thank him, etc.


sorry if im being rela b!tchy and all, but this is how i feel about it

this is chelle it's just a different name. anyways, i do believe in prayer. just not prayer in public schools. in my religion, wicca, i pray. and i was copying something that i had found off the internet because i thought it was rather interesting. actually, here are the links for you: Faith groups that support the First Ammendment and oppose government-sponored prayer in public schools. it's saying the presbyterian churches as a whole support the first amm and oppose school prayer. Bible Excerpt. i copied "jesus was against school prayer" word for word off that site. i wasn't actually saying i believed that. my bad on that specific thing. i completely agree with you when you say even if people discriminate against you for praying then you should still do it. but, by praying you are not realizing that you are discriminating against the people who do not wish to pray. you are singling them out and subjecting them to an activity that they don't believe in. praying is a 24-7 thing. it can be done whenever, wherever and by whomever. the type of school prayer that i am talking about, and the kind that many are trying to get back in the schools is where the principal comes over the announcements and prays with the students and maybe reads a bible scripture. now pro-school prayer people say that kids who do not wish to pray could go out of the room or whatever but that would single them out. that's discrimination. why even go through all of that when right now, anyone can pray by themselves. at my school currently we have a minute of silence. KEYWORD: silence. there's no verbalization of religious beliefs so that i'm okay with. people can pray within themselves. that's what i believe the bible excerpt was saying...

[fiji_kid]

wow i dont hav time to read that.. but i think its better to have skool prayer becoz people will not forgot their reglion..

[whomps]

wow i dont hav time to read that.. but i think its better to have skool prayer becoz people will not forgot their reglion..

so people won't forget their religion.. ?
what if you don't HAVE a religion?


if we had a prayer in school, it'd be ONE prayer, for ONE religion..
aka, going against the Constitution.

[annchovie]

my school has the moment of silence...and i go to the highschool in the mornings so i have to liten to the american pledge, the texas pledge, and the 1 minute of silence 2 times a day. some teachers at my schoool make the kids stop, but they keep walking, talking and doing other things...so much for following rules. its kind of a nuisance because no one really does anything...everyone just keeps on going or stares into space.

[marshmelo]

I have no religion as i am alowwed to chose my own faith. In our school we have so many realigions that it wouldnt be fair

[PinoyOtaku]

I go to a Catholic school so I guess prayer during school is a way of life...

[rdngurl0107]

i personally dont have a direct answer, but sometimes, I pray quietly in skool b4 i eat n things. I think that maybe having a little youth group/ bible study would be interesting, but probably not in skool b/c of the many religions in our skool.

[illyria]

wow i dont hav time to read that.. but i think its better to have skool prayer becoz people will not forgot their reglion..

that's horrible reasoning. not everybody has a religion. what about the atheists?

[likeachild]

huh? it says I already voted....
wait I remember...
I read this topic like one month ago!
how did it get bumped like that???

[blah3868]

i say no cuz theres alot of ppl who dont belive in da same thing otha ppl do

[Ju_CHaN]

I don't think there should exactly be time set aside for it, but just to allow students to pray in school if they choose to.

[euroFUSION]

If you're talking about public schools, there shouldn't be prayer. Keep the Church and State separate.

[likeachild]

they can't really "not allow" prayer
you can't control someone's thoughts

people can always pray silently...

[whomps]

they can't really "not allow" prayer
you can't control someone's thoughts

people can always pray silently...

Of couse you would be able to pray to yourself silently.. just not have a prayer and make the whole class do it or something.

[craziplaya21]

ill hav 2 say no cuz im atheist. i jus dont believe in those things.

[angel-roh]

ill hav 2 say no cuz im atheist. i jus dont believe in those things.

lols Eve is an atheist =)

[retsmit]

i dont care; people can do whatever they want to

[speight89]

Not everyone is the same religion

[ichigofan]

i dont care... ppl can do watever dey want

praise jesus

[*xcaitlinx*]

of course there shouldn't be prayer in school...because a lot of people...including myself...don't bleieve in god or have different beliefs than your typical christians.

[*mipadi*]

this country was made on the principles of christianity and we should always have stuck my them.  sometimes i wish i could go back in time to the Constitutional COnvention of 1787 and make the founding fathers be more specific cause i hate it that people say the constitution says its wrong.  "separation of church and state" haha. dumb people who use that as an excuse.  the people who made the constituion were christians in one denomination or another...they would have been okay with that fact that there are different types of christianity HOWEVER they would not have been okay with other religions especially taking PRAYER out of SCHOOLS.  they might have let the other religions be free to worship on their own but i hardly doubt that they would have wanted prayer out of schools.  this country needs to go back to its christian roots.. im tired of people who try to do otherwise

ALSO WHEN they wrote separation of church and state they meant it in the point that the government couldn't stop a form of the Christian denomination.  they probably would want them to stop the weird religions that has come into this country.

I don't think that's an accurate depiction of our Founding Fathers at all. Keep in mind that many of the first colonists were fleeing religious persecution at home. Pennsylvania, the second state to ratify the Constitution, was created by Quakers who were fleeing religious persecution. The first Pilgrims in the Mayflower were fleeing religious persecution as well. So no, the Founding Fathers were not thinking only of Christianity when they wrote the Constitution. The fact that most of them (not all, mind you) were Christians does not mean that they were militant Christians who wished to remove every other religious order from the face of the earth. Remember, too, that this was shortly after the Enlightenment period, where people were beginning to question religion, or at least believe more in science. Not all the framers were hardcore Christians. Some were even atheists (or, at least, doubted some Christian teachings).

This country really doesn't have "Christian roots." Many things in the Constitution are based on Christian principles because that's what many of the authors were raised on, but they did not intend for everyone to be Christian. It's very noble of you to practice your religion, but there's no reason to make the whole country practice it, too.

As far as religion in school goes, it's not "banned"--it's just no longer mandatory. People are free to pray in schools. Many public schools even have (optional) religious groups operate within them. As a non-Christian, I am fine with that. I just don't think prayer should be forced anyway. I'll be quite honest: I have no interest in praying to some abstract concept that I don't really believe exists.

[waitwaitwait]

No. No. No.
I don't even think saying the Pledge Of Allegiance should be done in school.

[sweetabandon]

no way. maybe if the prayer time was like a quiet time where everyone just prays to themselves i'd be okay with it. i could use that ime to think of other things. group prayers that are verbally spoken seem wrong.

I have this strong belief that the catholic religion especially are based by routines with no meanings. they do them simply because they were told to do it. do it or else suffer the eternal flame of damnation.. No, I don't like the idea of making us believe in something we're not sure of. Why can't they let us make the decision for ourselves?

[KERP1UNK]

school is a place to learn, not a place to pray. if you wanted to pray, you should go to church. plus, not everyone is of the same religion!! if a child wants to pray, let them pray. but dont make everyone else have to pray!! i am totally against prayer in school... ^^ and i agree, they should have a silent time instead of a group prayer..its just not right.

[sammi rules you]

unless it's like a religious school, i'm totally against it. that is against the law. there's this little thing called separation between church and state..if you wanna pray in school, go to a school that's for it. that's why they're there.

[b0st0ngrl]

If someone is religous enough to want prayer in school then they should find time to pray silently to themselves.

[smile4me]

If someone is religous enough to want prayer in school then they should find time to pray silently to themselves.

yep, that's how some of my friends and i are - we pray before we eat lunch and we have Oasis (kinda like a youth group thing)
i dont think it should be required the school for everyone to pray.

[DisneyPrincessKa...]

I go to a catholic school

every morning during convocation (assembly, announcements, whatever you may call it) we pray. Sometimes we do things like the our father, however usually whoever is leading (the principal or dean of students, whoever happens to be there that day) will make it up as they go along and we respond with "Lord Hear our prayer"

A lot of people are not catholic. In fact, only about 35% of the students are. They're not all christians either.

all the school asks is to be respectful during prayer if you don't want to participate. It's like how you can refuse to say the pledge. You're totally allowed to not say it, but you still have to be respectful.

No one at my school has any serious issues with it, no one is offended by it, and it doesn't hurt anyone. I dont understand why they would be offended. Maybe it's me?

[sadolakced acid]

I go to a catholic school

every morning during convocation (assembly, announcements, whatever you may call it) we pray.  Sometimes we do things like the our father, however usually whoever is leading (the principal or dean of students, whoever happens to be there that day) will make it up as they go along and we respond with "Lord Hear our prayer"

A lot of people are not catholic.  In fact, only about 35% of the students are.  They're not all christians either.

all the school asks is to be respectful during prayer if you don't want to participate.  It's like how you can refuse to say the pledge.  You're totally allowed to not say it, but you still have to be respectful.

No one at my school has any serious issues with it, no one is offended by it, and it doesn't hurt anyone.  I dont understand why they would be offended.  Maybe it's me?

i would be quite offended if that were to happen in my school.

and here's why:

i utterly despise jesus. To me, jesus was a fake person who pretended to be god. therefore, everytime i hear someone pray to jesus for help, or pray to 'the lord' (not god, the lord; who is jesus), it is akin to someone praying to osama bin laden (to me).

if i were to go to school and have to listen to a christian prayer, and only a christian pray; it's a message. it's a message that "we're all christian, and we're the right ones, so you should pray with us and become christian."

i feel that if some christians refuse to tolerate other religions, i can refuse to tolerate some christians. namely those who ask me to pray, or pray for me, or ask jesus to save my soul, or those that tell me jesus loves me, or those who believe they are correct and everyone else is wrong.

a christian prayer in a public school is as offensive to me as a satanic rite in a christian school would be offensive to a christian.

[sammi rules you]

well, miss kate, if i went to a catholic school there wouldn't be much i could do, now would there? however, i would be offended if that happened in a public school..there should be no preferred religions of the school if it's not specified.

[fameONE]

If teaching evolution is banned in school, prayer, the pledge and any other state mandate with a religious reference should be too.

[sammi rules you]

^ but teaching evolution isn't banned...

[yycleo]

u know wt?
i hv 2 go to chapel on EVERY SUNDAY morning and this is a school rule
need 2 wear school uniform 7 days a week =.=|||

[sadolakced acid]

^ but teaching evolution isn't banned...

it is in kansas now, i think.

[*not_your_average*]

NO FORCED PRAYER IN SCHOOL!

At least not forced prayer. It's safe to say that I am an agnostic, already unsure of my beliefs as of this moment. Although my school is largely Christian, it is a public school. If they were to say, "Let's pray to Jesus for..." whatever reason, I would be personally offended. Jesus is not my God. I don't even know if I want to believe in God (if there is one.)

If students wish to pray among themselves, they can knock themselves out. But the school praying together? That should not be allowed.

[sammi rules you]

it is in kansas now, i think.

well that's freaking stupid.

[*xcaitlinx*]

well that's freaking stupid.

definitely. Teaching kids the scientific theory on how we were created? NEVER! we cannot allow kids these days to have an open mind and intake theories that are a gainst some of their religions...something that is a hellofa lot more logical than theories taught in christian schools. heh....please. and yet, teaching (sometimes even brainswashing) kids that a holy God above is looking down on us, deciding our fate, who we can't see nor prove exists is allowed? what is WRONG with our government?

[sadolakced acid]

definitely. Teaching kids the scientific theory on how we were created? NEVER! we cannot allow kids these days to have an open mind and intake theories that are a gainst some of their religions...something that is a hellofa lot more logical than theories taught in christian schools. heh....please. and yet, teaching (sometimes even brainswashing) kids that a holy God above is looking down on us, deciding our fate, who we can't see nor prove exists is allowed? what is WRONG with our government? 

that's it's run by someone who only 51% of the country approves of, yet he runs it as if everyone loves him.

that's what's wrong with the government- lack of a strong middle.

[baller30]

I think having a seperate time just for prayer during school hours is useless, because not everyone follows the same religion. I personally pray before I eat my lunch in school, and it's totally upto the people whether they want to pray or not.

I agree whole heartedly. It is a person's choice to pray. You can't force anyone to pray and it would be really pointless to force them. Forcing a person to pray would be totally against what God created us with(i.e. freedom of choice). Of course, people are different religions so to force them to pray to one specific God or gods would be violating their right as a citizen of the US to practice their own religion.

And on the issue of science, and Evolution vs. Creationism, I think that each person should be allowed to chose their view. Both views should be presented to students. To have a school system that is biaised towards one side is unfair and very un-American. Many people believe in Creationism, but do not believe in the God of Chritianity. Some people are Diest and believe God created the world and then let it to be. And even some scientists believe that there is Intelligent Design, but are not "religious."

[sadolakced acid]

And on the issue of science, and Evolution vs. Creationism, I think that each person should be allowed to chose their view. Both views should be presented to students. To have a school system that is biaised towards one side is unfair and very un-American. Many people believe in Creationism, but do not believe in the God of Chritianity. Some people are Diest and believe God created the world and then let it to be. And even some scientists believe that there is Intelligent Design, but are not "religious."

it is not unfair nor unamerican that only evolution is presented in the classroom. evolution has been proven via scientific study, while creationism has not.

[baller30]

actually both theories cannot be really proven unless there are time machines... that is the man reason of the debate... theories unlike scientfic facts cannot be proven
each theory has holes that require a person to believe that in something without full proof the evidence is basically cirumstatial for both

trust me on this i have studied both so in depth through out my life

each theory is really just left for you to believe because no matter how much "scientific fact" there is there will never be enough to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that either theory is true or false

[*mipadi*]

actually both theories cannot be really proven unless there are time machines... that is the man reason of the debate... theories unlike scientfic facts cannot be proven
each theory has holes that require a person to believe that in something without full proof the evidence is basically cirumstatial for both

trust me on this i have studied both so in depth through out my life

each theory is really just left for you to believe because no matter how much "scientific fact" there is there will never be enough to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that either theory is true or false

The difference between a scientific theory and a religious belief, however, is that a scientific theory is testable, and has been tested using the scientific method.

[baller30]

theory i repeat is not testable, the evidence can not be seen in current nature, right? so it is a theory. if it cannot be tested at this point in time it cannot be proven, it is a theory. evry single science teacher and science expert i have talked to is forced to admit that no matter which theory they support, neither can be tested.

also some people believe in evolution as a religious belief... then does that disqualify it as a theory of course not, what makes that an different than creationism?

[XoJennaoX]

^ so no theory can ever been proven true or false? don't think so. Any theory (if it is in fact a theory) is testable and while it may not be PROVEN right now, it has the possibility in the future. This fact does not hold true for creationism.

Evolution is not a belief so i don't know why you say some people think it is. Unless you are referring to the belief that God created evolution, but that does not change what evolution is. Science is never based on a belief, you can believe that God created evolution, but evolution does not hold its truth because i believe that's the way it happened.

About prayer in school, No - you pray in your heart, you pray because you want to, not because you are forced to at this exact moment. You pray when the time and the place suites you and your mind is clear and spiritually ready. Above all it is a personal connection. Thats means NOT a group effort, and not everyday at a specific time and place, that is completely unnecessary. Having prayer in school takes away the value that is suppose to be special and sincere about praying. Any school that says it is best for students are simply using prayer as a "tool", that is NOT what it is meant for.