christianity and catholocism Options

[*tweeak*]

so were at a bit of a disagreement. i think catholocism is a form of christianity, and she thinks christianity is a form of catholocism. help me out here, and state which you think and why

former arguements can be found in the merry christmas etc thread

[runforfun529]

I think its that catholic is a form of christianity, because I'm christian but not catholic.

[azn_r4pf4n]

Catholicism is much different than Christianity, but we today label Catholics and Protestants all together as Christians, which confuses me. Catholics are referred as Catholics as Christians (non-Catholics) are referred as Protestants or just "Christians". (I'm Christian, Protestant)

Protestanism was formed during the 16th century, during the Reformation, an attempt to Reform the true Christianity. Martin Luther argued the fact that the Roman Catholic Church used celibacy (a vow to never marry, especially when religion is involved), transubstanation, and indulgences. Martin Luther argued strongly for justification of faith (to accept Jesus Christ as your savior and all your sins are forgiven), which led to Protestanism. So thats how Protestanism differs from Catholicism.

Protestanism is basically what we(the Protestants) call the True Christianity.

We're(Catholics and Christians) labeled by the world today together as "Christians." Yes, Catholocism is another form of Christianity, and Protestanism is another form of Christianity too. We're all labled Christians no matter if we're Protestant or Catholic.

[DaTru KataLYST]

Are the Catholics getting high and mighty?

Christianity is the parent term. Catholocism is the daughter term, just like Protestant and Orthodox.

How did this turn into a dispute??!

[azn_r4pf4n]

Are the Catholics getting high and mighty?

Christianity is the parent term. Catholocism is the daughter term, just like Protestant and Orthodox.

How did this turn into a dispute??!

It's been a big dispute ever since the Reformation.
Religion is a very sensitive issue.

[TreesTurnMeOn]

I'm not exactly sure. They are both linked together for me. Why haven't we had Judaism invovled in this situation? I'll just stick to this.

I don't know too much about the Catholics. All I know is they have Saints and stuff....so I really can't say anything about them.

Now, being a Christian, I know a lot about Christianity. We believe that Jesus was the Messiah (yes, this has a point which will be stated in a few minutes) and he is God's son.

But that leads me to the conclusion about Judaism.

Christianity and Catholicism could well be a form of Judaism. Jesus was a Jew. Some of his diciples were Jews. But then they formed Christianity? Very odd to me...

And Christianity was created before Catholicism, so most likely Catholicism evolved from Christianity.

Hence stating, Judaism formed Christianity, which formed Catholicism.

[azn_r4pf4n]

And Christianity was created before Catholicism, so most likely Catholicism evolved from Christianity.

Im agreein wit the second one. Isreal during New Testament times was ruled by Rome. Maybe the Romans were amazed by Christianity and changed the religion a little, therefore living Christianity the "Roman way" or Catholicism.

[Mr. Psychotic]

They both.....



Suck.

[sadolakced acid]

Christian- N, a religious person who believes Jesus is the Christ and who is a member of a Christian denomination

Christianity- N, a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior

Catholic Church- N, The most ancient Christian church, whose religion ruled all Christians until the Protestant Reformation. Once undivided, today it includes these branches: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and old Catholic.

[*tweeak*]

Are the Catholics getting high and mighty?

Christianity is the parent term. Catholocism is the daughter term, just like Protestant and Orthodox.

How did this turn into a dispute??!

see merry christmas vs happy holidays topic. although catholocism is a form of christianity, person kraizisomethingortother2 insists otherwise. even though i offered excessive historical evidance, she still insists otherwise

ok.... wow. it's more complicated than i thought. so wait... were both wrong???

no. still you

heres the diagram i made before. sorts out the history of it.

Attached File(s)

 religion.gif ( 1.82K ) Number of downloads: 2

 

[sadolakced acid]

also:

these are groups and sub groups, in order of largest to smallest.

monotheism- christianity- catholicism- orthodox

each group contains the groups to it's right, and is part of the groups to it's left

[*tweeak*]

also:

these are groups and sub groups, in order of largest to smallest.

monotheism- christianity- catholicism- orthodox

each group contains the groups to it's right, and is part of the groups to it's left

although if you really want to start with monotheism, it gets more complictated, but youre right.

[Spirited Away]

I'm appalled at how many people claim they're a part of a religious organization, yet know less about it than someone who isn't a part of their religious group.

How sad. And to think, those are the same people who usually push their beliefs in other people's faces claiming their religion is the only truth.

[Spirited Away]

I insist because i have been taught that CHristianity is a form Catholosism.

So maybe, just maybe you should check your source? Whoever taught you should have facts to back up what he/she was teaching?

[Spirited Away]

If it was only one group telling me that Christianity is a form Catholosism, i wont be likely to believe them. However, A school that has been around for who knows when, and a christian church....

School isn't what teaches you, your teacher does. Teachers are humans. Humans make mistakes?

Do you remember what exactly the person said? Maybe there was some kind of discrepancy?

[*tweeak*]

she was saying that she was catholic, but not christian, and she didnt believe me when i said it was the other way around. we went back and forth, and she still didnt believe me, and so said we should start a thread on it, so i did, to get people to back it up

QUOTE (kriziaandrei2 @ Dec 27 2004, 2:44 AM)

no you're wrong. because Christianity is a form of Catholosism. I spent 4 years in Catholic school and I go to a Christian church (totally appropiate). I'm telling u for a fact that christianity is a form of catholosism. sooo i dont need you to explain to me the history. 

no im not wrong. catholocism is a form of christianity, not the other way around period. so will explain the history because you still not being submissive.

christianity is the religion based on jesus, son of mary, being the son of God who rose from the dead etc etc. The followers, all followers of jesus are called christians. eventually, problems caused constantine to move the church to constantinople, and formed the eastern orthodox sect, leaving roman catholics in rome. however, they were both still christians, because they all believed in christ, even though the eastern orthodox christians werent catholic. before the great schism, the catholic church was becoming corrupted, and so with a second pope in france, if pushed reformists over the edge, like martin luther, who them broke away from the catholic church to form the lutherin church, and then other forms of protistantism, such as methodist, baptists, etc. while these new prostostant churches are christian, because they believe in jesus as christ, they are not catholic, because they broke away from the catholic chruch.

see, in the diagram, protestantism, catholisism and eastern orthodox churches all fall under christianity, but are not all catholic.

i dont know how to explain it better than that. that should cover everything.

[runforfun529]

christianity is religion based on the teachings of jesus christ

I am christian, but I am mormon

[smthngcrprategrl...]

catholosism is a form of christianity. catholosism is the original form of christianity.

[Spirited Away]

she was saying that she was catholic, but not christian, and she didnt believe me when i said it was the other way around. we went back and forth, and she still didnt believe me, and so said we should start a thread on it, so i did, to get people to back it up

Oh, I meant to ask her what exactly her *teacher*/the person taught her in class and if there was some sort of misunderstanding.

Sorry for the confusion.

[*tweeak*]

oh i see, i thought you meant about the discrepency

[ApunBindaas]

Good question. I hear this debate ALL the time. IMO, I think Catholic is a form of Christianity to

[*Weird addiction*]

catholism is a form of christianity cos i know ppl who r christians but not catholics,like protestants for example,they rnt catholics but they r christians!

[*tweeak*]

I stand corected. as i remember; IF u Believe in Jesus Christ then you ARE Christian.

thats what ive been saying the entire time

[Ataryu]

....How can you argue with what's right in front of you?

I know im repeating what's been said, I just think it's funny

Christian- "Christ like"

Anyone who believes in god is a christian. It's not everyone who believes in god is a catholic.

And...wth?

Person1: "Someone said this, and some people agreed, so I agreed to, and now I would fight to the death to defend what they said!"

Person2: "Oh really....so...wha'd they say?"

Person1: "That the earth is flat"

Person2: "But its round"

Person1: "NO ITS NOT ITS FLAT!!!"

Person2: "So wheres the proof?"

Person1: "Wheres your proof"

Person2: "Right here, its called a globe"

Person1: "Oh yeah!!!..... well im right and your wrong, because they said it was true"

---------had nothing better to do-------

[*tweeak*]

ya... but there's still that part whether catholosism is a form of christianity or christianity is a form of catholosism.

but...you just answered your own question. its obviously catholocism as a form of christianity

[Spirited Away]

Then we're back to square one?

[sadolakced acid]

Anyone who believes in god is a christian. It's not everyone who believes in god is a catholic.

no...

anyone who belives jesus was the christ is christian.

don't have to belive in god, as long as you belive in jesus.

[aznxdreamer]

personally, i think that both christianaity and catholocism are both the same thing.

[*tweeak*]

no it's not.

i just said that if someone believed in Jesus Christ, then they are christian ... but it doesnt show that Catholosism is a form of Christianity

no. it does so.

do catholics believe in christ? yes

that means that catholics are christian, because they believe in christ

personally, i think that both christianaity and catholocism are both the same thing.

um, no.

Anyone who believes in god is a christian. It's not everyone who believes in god is a catholic.

no. muslims believe in God, they just call him allah. but that doesnt make them christian because they dont believe in Jesus. like Jews. they believe in the same God, because Jesus was a Jew, but theyre not christian.

[Ataryu]

You know what I meanm don't be so literal....although I was being literal......

Either way, just replace the word god with christ and what I said makes perfect sense.

[*tweeak*]

oh. i had no clue you meant that. i had no clue you wrote that. but one replacements are made, right

[JlIaTMK]

so were at a bit of a disagreement. i think catholocism is a form of christianity, and she thinks christianity is a form of catholocism. help me out here, and state which you think and why

former arguements can be found in the merry christmas etc thread

actually.... catholicism is a form of christianity

okay, to prove this, when the byzantines ruled, they divided theyre empire into the left sect which were the catholics
and the right sect, which were orthodox

now, the orthodox, were the original believers,
catholics, updated christianity as it stands and then from there, broke apart many more religions such as methodist etc

[JlIaTMK]

see merry christmas vs happy holidays topic. although catholocism is a form of christianity, person kraizisomethingortother2 insists otherwise. even though i offered excessive historical evidance, she still insists otherwise
no. still you

heres the diagram i made before. sorts out the history of it.

THANK YOU!! I AGREE WITH EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE IN THE DIAGRAM

100%

most people don't believe that christianity was broken up into catholicism and orthodox first :)

oh and the whole catholics side made up a new calendar
and the orthodox side kept up with the old one

THEREFORE thats why my christmas is on the 7th of january and the old new years is on the 14th of january, even though i still celebrate new years on the 31st haha

[*Zyryll*]

dumb catholics... i mean... why do you go to that aerobic class every sunday? you HAVE to neil, stand up, bow, neil stand up, bow...walk all the way up to the front and back.. wtf? ... jeez... my friend is catholic and he called it an aeobic class rather than church...

just go to a regualr church. okayy??

[Spirited Away]

RELIGION ISNT REALLY ONE OF MY BEST SUBJECTS....

but that still doesnt change what i think.....

It should. That is how we educate ourselves and move on and that's how we mature as humans.

As in if something is proven right, no contest, then you should at least take it into consideration instead of brushing it off as false just because you think it's false.

Remember that many people thought that Galileo was false? Well, time proved them wrong.

[sadolakced acid]

dumb catholics... i mean... why do you go to that aerobic class every sunday? you HAVE to neil, stand up, bow, neil stand up, bow...walk all the way up to the front and back.. wtf? ... jeez... my friend is catholic and he called it an aeobic class rather than church...

just go to a regualr church. okayy?? mellow.gif

pointless bashing...

i wonder, if maybe you could spell kneel right...

anyways; catholics probably say "what's that church they go to? grape juice and crackers? what happened to wine and bread? "

[Spirited Away]

dumb catholics

You're the dumb one.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but I'm just a straightforward kind of gal.

[*tweeak*]

^^
FINE! I GIVE UP!! bleh.....

RELIGION ISNT REALLY ONE OF MY BEST SUBJECTS....

but that still doesnt change what i think.....

what? how can it not change what you think? how can you be that set in your incorrect thoughts not to realize it? whos opinion would you actually respect? jordan and i have both given you accurate historical accounts of why catholocism is a form of christianity and you still dont believe it? how? i dont get it. how can you say you give up and then keep thinking incorrectly?

dumb catholics... i mean... why do you go to that aerobic class every sunday? you HAVE to neil, stand up, bow, neil stand up, bow...walk all the way up to the front and back.. wtf? ... jeez... my friend is catholic and he called it an aeobic class rather than church...

just go to a regualr church. okayy?? 

what the hell? your ignorance is disgusting. and youre not funny.

[Angel_Cece]

.... it is a form of christianity...................................

[*tweeak*]

cux i dont have anything to back it up!

you have history! you have common sense!

[Spirited Away]

damn thing loaned me a bible and told me to read the whole thing and then i would have reasons....

Hahahahah, lots of Priests and Ministers do that! They would give you the Bible to read when they can't seem to answer something. Hahahahaha!!! That's what happened to my friend...

Actually, that's kind of sad......

[Spirited Away]

can say that again.... so you guys WIN! i lost...   

Not really. We can't seem to convince you of anything, let alone change your mind.

[azn_r4pf4n]

yikes.... hmmm how should i say this.... The Catholic Church worships the Virgin Mary, and they have statues and stuff of her. and the Protestants consider that idolatry (im protestant), b/c the catholics are worshipping the virgin mary. That's what makes protestants and catholics differ. Also, Catholocism has celibacy and transsubstanation.

Protestantism believes in justification of faith. Catholocism believes in baby baptisim.

Like that person said, Christianity is the parent term.

personally, i think that both christianaity and catholocism are both the same thing. 

nope. christianity (or protestantism, since ur saying christianity and catholocism), differ from catholics. try studying about the Reformation, yu'll see a big difference.

[*tweeak*]

^actually, some protestants baptise young too. my methodist raised brothers are 1 and 3 years old, and theyve both been baptized. also, catholics have confirmation, which im going through right now, so thats not quite right

[azn_r4pf4n]

interesting. i never knew that, but oh well.

[JlIaTMK]

^^

but then i gotta read the whole Bible (new Testament) that's what the Priest at my Church told me.... he wouldnt help me out by just saying his reason....

damn thing loaned me a bible and told me to read the whole thing and then i would have reasons....

and plus! i'm not a good debator as you can see....

well, why dont you read the whole Bible.... maybe that would help in your arguement.... because as you can see, most of us have a couple of pages of reasons of why we believe this is so. History has proved it to be so. Also, wasnt it named after Christ? Or, is that not it.

[sunissed14127]

yes...I'm catholic and i think catholosism is a form of christianity.

[JlIaTMK]

also: 

these are groups and sub groups, in order of largest to smallest. 

monotheism- christianity- catholicism- orthodox

each group contains the groups to it's right, and is part of the groups to it's left

actually id have to disagree with you on this one acid,

orthodox is not part of catholicism

orthodox means tradition belief
the catholic side upgraded their beliefs. I believe Constantine added Paganism to Catholicism to make it newer. However, Orthodox, stayed with the old belief of Christianity, which, was the religion that everyon from Christianity had before the Byzantines made their Eastern empire stay with the old beliefs and they themselves made up newer beliefs for Christianity.

And also, most of the Christian icons from Orthodoxy are older and the paintings of how the saints look are more traditional. :)

So, therefore, it would be

Monotheism--Christianity WHICH divided into the old believers of orthodox, and the more contemporary Catholicism. :)

[violini]

I'm appalled at how many people claim they're a part of a religious organization, yet know less about it than someone who isn't a part of their religious group.

How sad. And to think, those are the same people who usually push their beliefs in other people's faces claiming their religion is the only truth.

so true.......

[nevernothere]

Your friend's nuts... Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.. just like Protestantism, Eastern Orthodox... etc..

[*tweeak*]

well for one thing... i dont wanna read the whole bible. do you know how long that will take? how many pages it has? how little the text is?

i dont wanna sound redundant. but like what i said before. religion isnt one of my best subjects. you guys are giving me the history of Catholisism being a form of Christianity. there are many speculation about this subject. experts are still debating about the same subject we are. so really there is no exact answer which one yet. there is just a theory that people believe in. (i.e. when people thought the world was flat... ya. bad example)

It was probably named after "Christ" but alot of things are named after someone or something but it's that the same person who made or invented it.

um, no, its not being debated. historical evidence can be given, because it is a fact

[Spirited Away]

well for one thing... i dont wanna read the whole bible. do you know how long that will take? how many pages it has? how little the text is?

My co-worker's 13 year old read the whole thing and can cite to me certain verses by heart.

you guys are giving me the history of Catholisism being a form of Christianity. there are many speculation about this subject. experts are still debating about the same subject we are.

Give me a source. I never thought that any "expert" would debate something already so obvious? Maybe it's just me?

[Spirited Away]

wow. i call him/her a genius.

Or a devout who asks the right questions and accept reseasonable answers to those questions?

[starfaerie06]

In my opinion Catholicism is a form of Christianity.

[wolverine00]

"Has God indeed said...For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."? (Eph. 2:8-9)

The R. Catholic church teaches another gospel (faith plus works) and worships a different 'Jesus' (the dead, joyless one on their cross). Therefore, those who believe in the Roman Catholic 'gospel' cannot be saved.

What you believe on this issue places you on one side of the great dividing line between the apostate "Protestant", and apostasying evangelical, Pentecostal and fundamental church; versus the true remnant church.

If you can't discern a false gospel and a false church, then you can't discern the true gospel and the true church. If you cannot discern a false gospel and a false church, then you are in very serious spiritual trouble...

EDIT: DANGIT, I DIDNT REALIZE THIS DEBATE WAS SO FREAKING OLD.. SORRY...SORRY!!!

[sadolakced acid]

we're not debating which sect is right.

christian- one who believes jesus was the christ.

catholics believe jesus was the christ
making them christian.

end of story.

[BeyondElite]

First of all, Christianity is an Abrahamic religion based on the life, teachings, death by crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament. Over the past two millennia, Christianity has been grouped into three main branches: Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism (Which are comprised with Lutheran, Reform, Methodist, Pentecostal, Quakerism and Baptist). Although some people think that Roman Catholicsm is not part of Christianity, they might be wrong. For the fact the Roman Catholics believe in Jesus' teachings, death by crucifixion and resurrection, they are still Christians.

[prayurnotheonly1]

Protestants and Catholics believe in 2 completely different things but both sects are considered a part of Christianity because we all believe in Christ. It was all the same until 1528 when the protestant revolt happened. Luther said that he believed by faith alone you can be saved. Catholics believe you are "saved" (thats not really what we call it but whatever it works) depending on how you act your whole life.

[Spirited Away]

we're not debating which sect is right.

Interesting. That debate would go on, and on, and on... but educational.

[jenika]

isnt catholicism another branch of christianityy?? like theres catholicism and protestant, and protestant has many other branches like baptist, methodist, evangelist to name a few...

does it really matter as long as we believe in Christ?

[*tweeak*]

isnt catholicism another branch of christianityy?? like theres catholicism and protestant, and protestant has many other branches like baptist, methodist, evangelist to name a few...

does it really matter as long as we believe in Christ?

yes. read the thread. that was my point. this was resolved, by the way, so i dont know why its back, because what we were arguing could be very easily confirmed

[Angel_Cece]

chritianity is a religon. one broad religon. catholocism is a form of christianity. there are different forms. i am anglican or episcopalian. there is also baptist and so on.

[*mona lisa*]

catholicism is a part of christianity. that's what i heard.

edit
nevermind.

This post has been edited by gotnoheart: Apr 3 2005, 02:55 PM

[*tweeak*]

chritianity is a religon. one broad religon. catholocism is a form of christianity. there are different forms. i am anglican or episcopalian. there is also baptist and so on.

we know that. stop repeating whats already been established

[youdrivinmegrape...]

yes Catholisism is a form of Christianity

[Spirited Away]

Dude, read the post above you.

No wait, read the whole thread. Please?

[WhiteLotus*]

I believe Catholocism is another branch of Christianity, as with your Lutherans, Baptists, etc.

They all believe in one thing that make them a branch of Christianity, and that's Christ.

[Spirited Away]

Seeing how this topic will not stir up any more arguments that haven't been addressed, I am closing it to prevent repetition and/or spam.

Please, DO NOT HESITATE to PM a staff person to have this thread reopened if you have any NEW idea, opinion, argument to add to this thread. That means, please do not create a new thread about this topic. Thank you.