GOAT Options

[brooklyneast05]

hip hop


who's the real GOAT




too hard a question maybe, who's on your GOAT list then

[DoubleJ]

GOAT of all time Biggie Hands Down.
To do what he did and with such little time...there is no denying that he is definitely in a category of his own.

[brooklyneast05]

i disagree...

for me, the time works against him. what if we only had a limited time with other people. i don't feel like we can compare someone with 2 albums to someone with 8, because if the person with 8 had only had to make two great albums then where would we be? you get what i'm saying? someone might have 8 albums, two of them being classics, and they can't run with biggie only because they aren't dead.

i mean what if we ONLY had illmatic from nas, ect. what if we can just cancel out some peoples less luster albums that they only have becuase they had more time. if biggie had more time, he'd prob spit out of few of these not so impressive albums.

this is why it gets hard throwing biggie around because all we can do is speculate on what if this and what if that. for me, this dude is not GOAT at all, or even on my list. his flow is on point for me, lyrically and what not, i don't feel him enough.


this all personal opinion when it comes down to it anyway...so don't think i'm hatin on your choice like it's the worst one ever or something javonn haha, it's a legit GOAT option for many. i just wanna see people debate some music

[DoubleJ]

I totally respect your opinion. Unlike most, I am not a nas fan. I only like maybe 3 songs he did. For me, I don't listen to too much hip hop so I may be the wrong person for this topic lol. I am more into jay, eminem, atq, talib, mos def, common. ATQ definitely should be on any list. So should Eric B. and Rahkim.

[gojira]

GOAT of all time Biggie Hands Down.
To do what he did and with such little time...there is no denying that he is definitely in a category of his own.

for javonn

i don't really have much to say since i don't know hip hop that well. to be honest, most tracks i cop aren't because of lyrics, but more for beats. i'm not really a fan of biggie or tupac, but certain songs are decent.

[fameONE]

The scope of hiphop has changed so much, it's hard to come up with one without breaking down the genre into subgenres.

Up until Universal Mind Control, I truly believed that Common held the crown. I've since bumped him from the top and I'm thinking of Black Thought or Talib Kweli.

[DoubleJ]

Talib Kweli might be the most under appreciated rapper in the game. For him to get released from his deal is absurd.

[Simba]

Eli Porter, end of story.

Topic Closed

[DoubleJ]

Eli Porter, end of story.

Sir please hand over your card. Your membership has been canceled thanks!

[brooklyneast05]

eh...here's the deal with me sometimes when it comes to kweli. to me, talib isn't under appreciated unless we're talking about in the mainstream. which maybe that's what you meant, and in that case i agree.

in the hip hop world though, i won't say underground just because that's sorta cliche but you guys know what i'm talkin about. common, talib, and mos def are way way far from being "under appreciated". of course this is all completely my own opinion from observation. you can ask tons of people though. they'll be like "yeah i like hip hop" and so you ask who they listen to it and it's always either common, talib, or mos def who they rattle off first. it's not like that's not who i'm going to be saying first or there is anything wrong with it, those three dudes should be some of the first three named. but you get what i'm getting at, if you're usually one of the first dudes name off then how under appreciated are you?

either way he is when it comes to main stream, i guess it just depends on how you look at it. but to me you could put tons of guys, black thought for example since brandon brought him up, and ask who is more under appreciated, and i'd probably always ago with the guy opposite of talib unless they just suck. talib's made a pretty good name for himself you ask me though.

[DoubleJ]

Indeed he has and I totally get your point. My argument is that main stream perception has caused his non comeuppence.

[brooklyneast05]

Indeed he has and I totally get your point. My argument is that main stream perception has caused his non comeuppence.

i agree with that. plus, sometimes i think about it and i don't even think mainstream could handle it anyway because people are so f*cking stupid they can't understand anything nowadays.


hence lil wayne being called a good rapper. you don't even have to try to understand the nonsense words he puts together

[DoubleJ]

People don't want to hear about positive shit ya know.

[ReggieM]

man ludacris is one one of the best current lyricist.

[SuckDickNSaveLiv...]

The scope of hiphop has changed so much, it's hard to come up with one without breaking down the genre into subgenres.

Up until Universal Mind Control, I truly believed that Common held the crown. I've since bumped him from the top and I'm thinking of Black Thought or Talib Kweli.

I been saying it for a minute, I don't know how Come~On be getting away with some of these lyrics he be spitting.

she said you look like you rap
where's your bling~ay
and yours clothes is tight
but you dont seem gay
I said naw
thats dude from NSYNC'~ay

click to enlarge

[fameONE]

Joe Budden, anyone?

[Tung]

Ja Rule.

[brooklyneast05]

^i'm going to keep thinking you're joking for now

what's the argument in favor ja rule again? mostly i only remember listening to him and jennifer lopez or ashanti. so maybe i'm missing his "good" stuff, idk. i never gave him much thought really because he became irrelevant extremely fast. something bbout his voice annoyed me though, i know that. i wouldn't mess with him, i'd just turn up an dmx if i wanted to hear an annoying sounding voice.

Joe Budden, anyone?

good? yes
underrated? yes
overlooked? yes
great? possibly
GOAT? nahhhhhhhh

i don't think he's GOAT personally, maybe he as potential to be. does he have a "classic album", eh. i like joe budden but there's still too many people for me i'd put ahead of him. i'd put andre 3000 ahead of him, i'd put nas ahead of him, i'd put royce da 5'9 ahead probably...despite common's latest f*ck up i'd put common ahead of him still. sometimes i like joell ortiz more than budden it depends on the day.

i hope though that in the future he will be in the real real real running for this. like he will blow up and get some more spot light so half the people don't just think of pump it up when they hear him.


but either way, it's not like i even have a real GOAT decided on so i'll probably just say no to everyone because i can't ever pick

[fameONE]

^i'm going to keep thinking you're joking for now

what's the argument in favor ja rule again? mostly i only remember listening to him and jennifer lopez or ashanti. so maybe i'm missing his "good" stuff, idk. i never gave him much thought really because he became irrelevant extremely fast. something bbout his voice annoyed me though, i know that. i wouldn't mess with him, i'd just turn up an dmx if i wanted to hear an annoying sounding voice.
good? yes
underrated? yes
overlooked? yes
great? possibly
GOAT? nahhhhhhhh

i don't think he's GOAT personally, maybe he as potential to be. does he have a "classic album", eh. i like joe budden but there's still too many people for me i'd put ahead of him. i'd put andre 3000 ahead of him, i'd put nas ahead of him, i'd put royce da 5'9 ahead probably...despite common's latest f*ck up i'd put common ahead of him still. sometimes i like joell ortiz more than budden it depends on the day.

i hope though that in the future he will be in the real real real running for this. like he will blow up and get some more spot light so half the people don't just think of pump it up when they hear him.


but either way, it's not like i even have a real GOAT decided on so i'll probably just say no to everyone because i can't ever pick

I agree with you completely.

Personally, I'm having a hard time ranking any of my favorite lyricists. I've always believed that to be great emcee, you need to be able to freestyle damn near flawlessly. And to be quite honest (though not many people know this about me), it's why I never rap anymore. I met Phonte (Little Brother) at a show in Austin, TX as well as MF DOOM. I've been around other underground heavyweights and, at one point, I thought I could get a shot of my own, but my personal standards for hiphop allowed me to sell myself short. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Well, a lot of rappers in the game can't freestyle, nor can they construct a song to tell a story (which I've been taught to do).

However, so much more goes into an emcee's legacy. For example, Canibus was/is sick. He can freestyle, he can write songs, and he's an emcee's emcee. Problem is; his beat selection has been horrid, and bad publicity (along with being sonned by LL) allowed him to get blackballed without much of a chance for redemption. Rass Kass is another example of an incredible lyricist, but his personal problems and run-ins with the law, not to mention his beef with major label executives allowed for his downfall. I think that, if Joe Budden doesn't break out big in '09 with padded room, he'll go the way of Rass Kass and Canibus, and the hiphop universe will be left the generic list:

-Biggie
-2Pac
-Big L
-Jay-Z
-Nas

The sad thing about that list is that people cannot see past the truth that there are other commonly named emcees better than the above listed

Big Pun > Biggie
Rass Kass > 2pac
Papoose (yes, Papoose) > Big L
Eminem > Jay-Z (but, less consistent)
Talib Kweli > Nas

...or maybe it's a matter of opinion

[brooklyneast05]

i agree with the joe budden ---> cannibus and rass kass comparison.

as far as the generic list, i feel the generic list is overrated also. i'm not much of a biggie fan clearly, so i have no argument with big pun > biggie. i favor pac over rass kass, but i won't pretend like i have a good reason for that other than me being a pac fan. i really like tupac, i really like a lot of what he had to say, not everything, but a lot. i'll keep him on my GOAT list but i'll never say he's GOAT just because i have this secret little judgment against people who say he is. whenever people say they think he's the greatest ever, i always automatically assume they don't really know that much about what they are talking about. which has probably failed me before, but i think 97% of the time my assumption is right.

a lot of people would be like "wtf" to you saying papoose over big L. this is like biggie to me, because i've never really had this giant respect for L that so many people do. duno, just never got me. papoose is an interesting fellow. i'm always on the fence about this guy. i like him because there's some songs i listen to and i'm like "wow that was crazy" but at the same time he's not someone who i enjoy listening to or make much of a "personal connection" with. that sounds cheesy as hell.


i agree about em > jay-z. i think em can do more and is more talented lyrically, but like you said jay-z consistency kills it. his consistency is what makes him great to me i guess. i mean i can think of a lot of people who i feel are more talented than jay-z but very few who could pull off the career he has. he has a had a pretty damn good career.

talib > nas

hmmmm, this is hard kinda. i like talib and i like nas. i prefer a lot more of nas' songs...but i think talib makes better ones, if that makes sense. my biggest quarrel with nas is that he's deep, but he's not deep deep. he's concious but not concious concious. it's hard to explain but there's tons of times when i feel like nas is on the right track with a song/idea but he stops short. sometimes i think he's trying a little too hard to be the smart rapper, and he doesn't really make the mark. so, i guess i agree talib is better, but at the same time i'm more likely to turn on a nas song.

[Tung]

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1602687/20090114/dmx.jhtml