eh wtf, asdfaewrdddd... i know, right? Options

[emberfly]

Pandora.. this makes me laugh :o

I know it was removed, but.....


hypocrite ouch | how could you

Is this not exactly like the Hollister Co. situation? Atleast I credited them


edit//

oh my god i can't breathe. make the laughter stopppp

[synatribe]

its not even the same, just familiar, Pandora has statue of liberty, that site dosent and the buildings are different

[ersatz]

its not even the same, just familiar, Pandora has statue of liberty, that site dosent and the buildings are different

Alright, I'm not one to start crap, but seriously; that is almost exactly the same. You can't even say that.

[Tung]

The buildings might not look exactly the same, but the concept and the dirt looks practically the same. If that's not jocking then I don't know what is. I won't say any judgments on this matter, until Trish explains herself.

[Melissa]

its not even the same, just familiar, Pandora has statue of liberty, that site dosent and the buildings are different

I hope this isn't how you judge how far you're willing to take someone else's ideas into your own graphics...

[synatribe]

Alright, I'm not one to start crap, but seriously; that is almost exactly the same. You can't even say that.

well that is true , I was actually on her website and while I was browsing through wordpress themes, I found the exaact same one on design disease http://www.wp-themes.designdisease.com/testrun/
and she didnt have the credit, I was shocked, but who knows until her explantaion

[synatribe]

aghhh, scratch what I said in the very beginning, I agree

[heyo-captain-jac...]

I don't think Trish would have jocked this.
But theres always that chance.

Care to explain, Trish? I refuse to point fingers, but I would like to know whats happening here.

[pandora]

god i am so sick of explaining this; that background is a stock graphic from vectorstock and on the preview its used the same exact way. the concept isnt original from the get go, and deserves no "credit."

[synatribe]

You can edit your posts, no need to double post.

I will say this however, we cannot bring her personal website into these manners, because she did say that she did not make that herself, that it was a template, because she doesn't have the time to make one herself.

oo, I never knew but like emberfly, I was browsing and I saw that, ehh whatever now I know :]

[pandora]

yeah sorry, not gonna "explain myself" for using a concept that's been practically beaten to death. that's like saying roxanne jocked her portfolio layout from this guy

concepts are reused and recycled by designers everywhere; everyone just take a damned chill pill.

[pandora]

Topic moved to Resolved Feedback.

[superstitious]

Per discussion - reopened and moved back to Feedback

[Tung]

concepts are reused and recycled by designers everywhere; everyone just take a damned chill pill.

That's true that concepts are reused and recycled. But the layout submitted just really look too identical. I mean reused and recycled concepts usually have bits and parts of ideas from layouts and inspirations. But the way it was constructed, almost EVERYTHING was reused. The picture of the building is on top of the page, with the brown dirty layering right under it with the rest of the layout. You could've been more creative and added other things to it, but you didn't. Everything was simply the same with a little changes to the pictures used. I don't know that's just my opinion, but I get where you're getting at though Trish about the concepts thing though.

[ersatz]

Would it be possible to post this original all-ideas-like-this-come-from-me image that you're talking about?

[micron]

hi guys,

i explained this already privately via pm to those that notified me. but here is my view on this matter.

from my standpoint this doesn't constitute "jocking". i agree that the two look VERY similar but if you look more closely, the graphics are all original. it's obviously a derivative work, but not a copyright violation. ideally, what Trish should have done was credit them for "inspiration", but in Trish's defence, derivative works are very common on the web (and even in real life). "jocking" is when you rip off someone else's work as your own, but in this case, all code + graphics are original.

[Tung]

^ That makes sense, and understandable. I just hope that this won't make people submit layouts that look similar to one another with just a little graphic changes, and few different codings because that would just ruin the quality of originality of layouts cB have.

[micron]

^ i guess your not understanding my point.

the graphics weren't "modified" - they are orignal works using a similar concept. and the code is all original, as it was designed specifically for createblog layouts.

edit;
for those you are having a hard time understanding my point: think fashion. in the fashion industry, derivative works are very common. yet none are accused of copyright infrigement - its understood that derivatives are part of the industry. its like wise with the web.

[ersatz]

We know they weren't modified, it's just...inspiration is one thing. She might as well have modified the original, because it looks exactly the same. Concept borrowing is fine and dandy, but at least change the colors, placement, overalll layout...anything...nothing was really changed, just remade. What's the point of that...

[Lanochka]

But isn't this what some other members do? I know I've seen tons of redesigned layouts such as a redesign of PureVolume.com in myspace layout form. A screen shot of Itunes which simple text boxes in it. Etc. They're both inspired in a way. I don't see how this is any different.

[ersatz]

Those people stated it was a redesign of a popular website for the use of others because they're entertained by it. This is her saying, "I made this, I designed it," when really, whoever made the layout for that company did, and it's not at all the same thing...

[micron]

We know they weren't modified, it's just...inspiration is one thing. She might as well have modified the original, because it looks exactly the same. Concept borrowing is fine and dandy, but at least change the colors, placement, overalll layout...anything...nothing was really changed, just remade. What's the point of that...

like i said, ideally she should have credited them for inspiration. this whole fiasco could have been avoided had she credited them. but as far as the originality of code + images - they are original.

[Just_Dream]

like i said, ideally she should have credited them for inspiration. this whole fiasco could have been avoided had she credited them.

the concept isnt original from the get go, and deserves no "credit."

What we're trying to say is that she SHOULD have given credit, but she said that it deserves no credit. WTF. Of course it deserves credit, Even if it's "inspiration."

[Elba]

yeah sorry, not gonna "explain myself" for using a concept that's been practically beaten to death. that's like saying roxanne jocked her portfolio layout from this guy

concepts are reused and recycled by designers everywhere; everyone just take a damned chill pill.

Anyone else remember Trish coming into the chat saying that Roxanne jocked her portfolio layout? LMAO.

[rnicron]

The fact is, she won't own up to what she did was wrong. She called out Emberfly (oh god) when he screenshoted the Hollister Co. website layout and disqualified him from running for ___ of the Month even though he coded his own stuff. She also kicked Mike (oh god, again) off staff for blatantly stealing stuff from Deviantart. So since she's friends with you Jusun, this is acceptable, and she just needs a talking to? I don't think so.

[Just_Dream]

Anyone else remember Trish coming into the chat saying that Roxanne jocked her portfolio layout? LMAO.

Yea I was there. Then she said something like "I don't want to call Roxanne out on it, but the concept is the same, even though she has a different vector" blah blah blah. But she made it into a big deal.

And just in case anyone missed this on the last page:

like i said, ideally she should have credited them for inspiration. this whole fiasco could have been avoided had she credited them.

the concept isnt original from the get go, and deserves no "credit."

What we're trying to say is that she SHOULD have given credit, but she said that it deserves no credit. WTF. Of course it deserves credit, Even if it's "inspiration."

[rnicron]

Everyone already knows that Trish is a hypocrite. She also lies out the ass. Do you want her to admit it or something? You know she won't; she'd rather us speculate and send out other staff to defend her while she bitches about it Backstage.

[Just_Dream]

Everyone already knows that Trish is a hypocrite. She also lies out the ass. Do you want her to admit it or something? You know she won't; she'd rather us speculate and send out other staff to defend her while she bitches about it Backstage.

Sorry, I must have high expectations for a Head Staff moderator, let alone a People Staff moderator, to at least respond a few times to feedback regarding them.

[superstitious]

Ok, so in an attempt to make this objective, where is the line drawn between "inspiration" and overall concept emulation? Meaning, at what point does credit become necessary? I'm not talking about things that are obvious, like using someone's DA image. I'm talking about complete or even a quasi redo of someone else's design concept. Do you credit them even if you believe that concept has existed before?

[rnicron]

She used almost exactly the same images. The dirt brown part that was used for the background of the blog was identical and the buildings looked exactly the same. It doesn't matter if it existed before, it was damn near the same thing.

[Just_Dream]

She used almost exactly the same images. The dirt brown part that was used for the background of the blog was identical and the buildings looked exactly the same. It doesn't matter if it existed before, it was damn near the same thing.

Meaning the outline/shapes are different, but the patters are the same. Also, just because this is brought up, she takes the layout down? That makes no sense. If it's been "beaten to death" and she's oh so right, then she shouldn't have taken it down.

[rnicron]

It'd be nice if she wouldn't have just ran and deleted it right as the topic surfaced, but I guess she's good at that. It's her defense, just like avoiding things is.

Damnit, Christina edited with what I said.

[superstitious]

Ok guys, I get that you don't agree with the way she has (or hasn't) handled this. I'd really like to see some feedback regarding the use of design concepts (including similar image concepts) and how far it should go, in your (public) opinion before needing permission and/or credit.

[Tung]

Ok guys, I get that you don't agree with the way she has (or hasn't) handled this. I'd really like to see some feedback regarding the use of design concepts (including similar image concepts) and how far it should go, in your (public) opinion before needing permission and/or credit.

I've taken a closer look at the dirt, and it's EXACTLY the same. Micron said it's original, but it isn't. She reversed the original dirt image around. Also here's a close up of how they are exactly the same for proof. Take a close look at the shape of the DARK BROWN parts and they match up nicely. Trish version I didn't have a nice quality of it, so it's a little blurry but you can easily tell they are the same image. So that's why I think crediting 10volt was necessary.

Trish's

10Volt



Game over.

[superstitious]

Ok, so obviously using the same image is call for credit.

[Teesa]

and to a degree, it should just be common sense for the designer to know when something should be credited.

[rnicron]

^Especially with the jobs she does. She should know better.

[Just_Dream]

Look at the menu, the black bar separating the top image and the body. What a coincidence that there's a menu on both.


And I don't think "coding" should be involved. cB profile needs a unique kind of coding to make everything work. Of course you can't just copy that from Volt. That's why coding should not matter, as we're discussing how the way the layout is arranged and copied visually.

[libertie]

Eh, I hate to say it but you're right that if you look at both pictures specifically at the dirt, that part is seriously exactly the same just flipped. Too similar to be a coincidence. =(

[rnicron]

Too similar to not have a consequence...

[synatribe]

I've taken a closer look at the dirt, and it's EXACTLY the same. Micron said it's original, but it isn't. She reversed the original dirt image around. Also here's a close up of how they are exactly the same for proof. Take a close look at the shape of the DARK BROWN parts and they match up nicely. Trish version I didn't have a nice quality of it, so it's a little blurry but you can easily tell they are the same image. So that's why I think crediting 10volt was necessary.

Trish's

10Volt

Game over.

^^ agreed, but if trish loses her status on staff wont that only make situations more difficult behind the scenes? because isnt she really involoved with createblog and micron?

[rnicron]

^That shouldn't be the focus of it.

[Tung]

I don't think she's involved with micron. Micron has a girlfriend or wife in real life I think.

[Just_Dream]

^^ agreed, but if trish loses her status on staff wont that only make situations more difficult behind the scenes? because isnt she really involoved with createblog and micron?

Even if she loses her status on staff, she'll still secretly be a mentor again, and we might see her back on staff 5/6 days later. Good call, Tung. And also, the menu as well!

And even if she was involved, I don't think she should get special privileges just because of that.

Yea well, things don't always work out that way.

[venti-anemoi]

And even if she was involved, I don't think she should get special privileges just because of that.

[libertie]

Well, the big shining difference here would be that this is not a layout that is being distributed here. If it was, that would pose a big problem and have the potential of getting CB in trouble. That was the issue with Mike.

This was a layout used for her personal profile, and while I still don't agree with the concept of using another person's work without permission even for personal use; I do have to make the argument that this is not the same situation as when Mike was under question.

edit; Also, I'm not trying to say that anything or nothing will happen. I'm just adding to the discussion at this point, so don't take my word as being final.

[synatribe]

I don't think she's involved with micron. Micron has a girlfriend or wife in real life I think.

lol no I meant dosent she work with him. lol ,but its already been anserwed :]

[Tung]

lol no I meant dosent she work with him. lol ,but its already been anserwed :]

Ohh sorry me. I thought you meant they were involved like relationship-wise involved. *smacks head*

Anyways, EVERYONE on staff works with micron to make this site better and run smoothly I guess, not just her.

[Just_Dream]

Sorry to bring in the negative point in this "oh so almost cleared up" mess..

But Trish did have the layout submitted to createblog, how else would the picture quoted in the first post of this topic be from cbimgs? anyway, she did distribute the layout on here, is all that I'm saying, even look here: http://zgrazier.createblog.com/ This person still has the CSS but no imgs.

*excuse my comment on their layout, I wasn't informed of the 10voltmedia at that point.

Oh yea. Even Trish left the whole "designed by pandora" and commented with "the credits are located in the footer html. the comments specifically say not to remove this." Obviously it must've been submitted. Good call, Thomas.

[libertie]

Hmm, I guess because I couldn't find it I didn't realize it had once been submitted.

Why was it rejected?

edit; nvm I see now. Yup.

[synatribe]

I'll post the way I feel about this right now. Flat out, without needer her response to the topic, Trish/Christine has violated the terms in the Community Guidelines (see jocking). Violation of the terms does include warning/suspension or banning depending on the case. I believe, but can't remember, in the staff guidelines, that breaking these rules (plus it's precedented with the Diana/Robbi incident) That any staff member that has violated the community guidelines does have some type of suspension, and possible indefinite removal from the staff body. I don't think that this is a banning situation, but I think that this clearly, shows poor leadership/staff skills, and if not only demoted to Design Staff, but maybe even a suspension from the staff body should be in place.

agreed.

[Teesa]

Hmm, I guess because I couldn't find it I didn't realize it had once been submitted.

Why was it rejected?

edit; nvm I see now. Yup.

wait, was it rejected or did she personally remove it?

[synatribe]

^ I think she personally removed it right after this topic started, I dont remeber

[rnicron]

I'll post the way I feel about this right now. Flat out, without needer her response to the topic, Trish/Christine has violated the terms in the Community Guidelines (see jocking). Violation of the terms does include warning/suspension or banning depending on the case. I believe, but can't remember, in the staff guidelines, that breaking these rules (plus it's precedented with the Diana/Robbi incident) That any staff member that has violated the community guidelines does have some type of suspension, and possible indefinite removal from the staff body. I don't think that this is a banning situation, but I think that this clearly, shows poor leadership/staff skills, and if not only demoted to Design Staff, but maybe even a suspension from the staff body should be in place.

Oh damn. I thought Dani posted this for a minute.

Anyway, she shouldn't even get the satisfaction of Design Staff.

[synatribe]

Oh damn. I thought Dani posted this for a minute.

Anyway, she shouldn't even get the satisfaction of Design Staff.

^^ seriously, she was O.D for like 2 days, lol

[rnicron]

No, she wasn't even an OD. She had secret Mentor status, so she actually didn't really leave.

[Melissa]

Trish, you said that the original image was from vectorstock.
Is this true? Can you provide a link?

[Just_Dream]

No, she wasn't even an OD. She had secret Mentor status, so she actually didn't really leave.

It was obviously to avoid having to own up to deleting topics.

And no it wasn't 2 days. Technically it was 6 days, since she left on April 4th and came back on April 10th.

[synatribe]

It was obviously to avoid having to own up to deleting topics.

And no it wasn't 2 days. Technically it was 6 days, since she left on April 4th and came back on April 10th.

wow, I thought she steped down with toya and jc because of the same reasons as jc and toya, wow, she's slick, lol :]

[micron]

The fact is, she won't own up to what she did was wrong. She called out Emberfly (oh god) when he screenshoted the Hollister Co. website layout and disqualified him from running for ___ of the Month even though he coded his own stuff. She also kicked Mike (oh god, again) off staff for blatantly stealing stuff from Deviantart. So since she's friends with you Jusun, this is acceptable, and she just needs a talking to? I don't think so.

Spencer, id appreciate if you dont talk on my behalf especially when you dont know what youre talking about. this is what i had to said about mike backstage (topic #195920):

hey guys.

i know. i havent been active at all and some of you guys will be wondering why i am here and what gives me the right ot say anything at all considering my long and very frequent absences. but if you could put that aside, id like to say a few things about this matter.

i dont know mike and never talked to him on aim so what i am about to say is strictly from a bystander's point of view. i dont think anyone here can argue with me when i say that mike has contributed A LOT to createblog. in essence, its people like mike who contribute regularly with quality content that keep this site going.

i do understand that some of the layouts he made used images that he did not get prior consent to. but honestly, can anyone here say that they have never done the same in the past, when they themselves were aspiring web designers? i have ("jocked") in the past, and im sure most of you, if not all, have done the same. so don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to condemn him so harshly? we've all been down that road, and we've all learned from it. so why not him, why cant we give him a second chance (that we all got, and that he deserves)?

also. a layout is so much more than an image that's "jocked". its code, images, and overall presentation coming together that create a quality layout. just because you have the highest of quality images do not necessarily translate to a quality layout. in that regards, dont you think a layout deserves to be considered in all of its aspects (and not just by an offending image)? the layout can always be preserved, and the image replaced for another that is original, don't you agree?

i dont know. in the end, what i want to stress is this: we are all human beings, and we all make mistakes. mike may have made a mistake.. lets help it be for the better, and not get caught up in the finger pointing that all of us know deep inside we were all guilty of one time or another.

plus. to lose someone like mike would be detrimental to createblog; we need quality designers like him.

[Melissa]

Um, this isn't a "discuss Trish's lame modding history" class. If you weren't around for something or don't get something, that's too bad, go dig through the many threads that DO discuss this (there are quite a few) or PM someone.

About the jocking/inspiration thing. Unless she can provide us the link for the stock image, I agree that this is too similar to be coincidence. I also think that the 10voltmedia site-makers should be contacted and asked where they found their image. If that exact image is really a stock image, then I think Trish should be in the clear.

As much as I think it's funny that Trish would resort to jocking, especially considering her history of tearing other people to shreds whenever anything they made looked similar to her shit, I feel that it's unlikely because someone at her level shouldn't need to copy.

[Just_Dream]

I'm just going to say this once. Just because you cite credit to an artist for using their photos or graphic art does not give you permission to use it. You must submit written approval from the original artists before you use any of their work from now on. Quote them in your comments or send a PM to a design staff or something.

And just in case anyone missed this on the last-last page:

like i said, ideally she should have credited them for inspiration. this whole fiasco could have been avoided had she credited them.

the concept isnt original from the get go, and deserves no "credit."

And it's not even the fact that we've all "jocked" something before. It's that she denies that she's copied anything, and that she designed it all on her own. I feel like we're straying away from the credit part, and now we're only focusing on the jocking part.

[synatribe]

Um, this isn't a "discuss Trish's lame modding history" class. If you weren't around for something or don't get something, that's too bad, go dig through the many threads that DO discuss this (there are quite a few) or PM someone.

About the jocking/inspiration thing. Unless she can provide us the link for the stock image, I agree that this is too similar to be coincidence. I also think that the 10voltmedia site-makers should be contacted and asked where they found their image. If that exact image is really a stock image, then I think Trish should be in the clear.

As much as I think it's funny that Trish would resort to jocking, especially considering her history of tearing other people to shreds whenever anything they made looked similar to her shit, I feel that it's unlikely because someone at her level shouldn't need to copy.

sorry to lazy, and it could have been deleted. also this incident is also putting her rep on the line .

[Melissa]

sorry to lazy, and it could have been deleted. also this incident is also putting her rep on the line .

Whatever. I find you a little bit annoying and will ignore your posts from now on as they really don't add anything to the discussion.

I always thought part of designing was about originality and creativity. Nice job, Trish. Even if it's not "jocking," for you to be so "inspired" by a concept that is "not original" is... even worse. The fact that you'd use a concept that's been completely tired out says a lot about you as a designer.

[micron]

I've taken a closer look at the dirt, and it's EXACTLY the same. Micron said it's original, but it isn't. She reversed the original dirt image around. Also here's a close up of how they are exactly the same for proof. Take a close look at the shape of the DARK BROWN parts and they match up nicely. Trish version I didn't have a nice quality of it, so it's a little blurry but you can easily tell they are the same image. So that's why I think crediting 10volt was necessary.

Trish's

10Volt

Game over.

if this is true, im really disappointed.

---

however, i still stand by what i said several months ago (read previous post). if you were a web designer (programmers too!), you would know that imitation is an integral part of the learning process. what i find interesting - and somewhat annoying - is that most of you who are so intent on tearing someone down - you wouldnt be able to make a good design even if someone was to give you a million dollars; if youre going to ostracize someone in public, at least be qualified at their level. i know - and you know - very well i might add, that you've also done the very same thing somewhere in your past. really, i mean it.

----

im going to close this topic now and move the conversations off to backstage to discuss what we should do regarding this matter.

[micron]

update;

staff members, go here (backstage):
http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=201910