Tibet Options

[datass]

Okay. Tibet and China and the whole Olympic Torch issues. Is Tibet part of China? Should they become and independent country?

In my opinion, Tibet has never been part of China. In the 1950's the Chinese government raided Tibet and claimed it to be part of China. So it was called a "reunion". That's bullshit to me. Tibet has a completely different culture, different language, different religion. They just are not Chinese. Alright, discuss.

[demolished]

Hi,

For your information, each country has its own set of logical arguments and different consideration and perspective of what "counts" as evidence.

China and U.S.A are totally different in term of politic, economic, and social. Thus- they both grew in a different culture with their own argument appeals.

[dustbunny]

If we're going to say that Tibet was never part of China, then why don't we also say that the United States of America was never part of the "USA" as well. brits? native americans? those are totally different cultures, so why isn't anyone complaining about the USA?

saying that Tibet should be independent is like saying Taiwan should be independent of China as well, or that Alaska should be independent of USA too. after all, the place was populated by "alaskan native groups" before they were bought by the USA. the only reason the demographics of Alaska have changed to include other races is because of the yukon gold rush, otherwise the state would still be populated by its natives.

thus, any country doesn't deserve to become independent just because it's "culture, etc etc" is different from it's surroundings

[misoshiru]

well in that case, hong kong, macau and all the other provinces should be independent too. yes? not to mention that all the parts that formerly belong to Mexico should be returned? or how about guam and puerto rico? should they be independent too?

[datass]

tibet is very different from hongkong and macau.

[demolished]

well in that case, hong kong, macau and all the other provinces should be independent too. yes? not to mention that all the parts that formerly belong to Mexico should be returned? or how about guam and puerto rico? should they be independent too?

mixing spanish and chinese? That's a huge problematic in diversity.

[dustbunny]

^ she's talking about parts of the united states that belonged to mexico such as california

[illriginal]

I dislike the fact that these people are oppressed just from the internet for example, and that during the Olympics, they're gonna let everyone in their country use the internet but as soon as the Olympics are over they're gonna oppress them again. Such complete bullshit.

mixing spanish and chinese? That's a huge problematic in diversity.

Yeah the problem would be that the females would be so effin hot that men can't keep themselves from gettin hard. That's the only problem I would see lol

[Spirited Away]

Tibet operates with its own government, currency, postage stamps... an established national history.

Doiink, please explain within historical events why you'd think Tibet is a part of China, because that would be something I'd really, really like to see from those who believe Tibet is a part of China.

By your reasoning, French should still rule over French Indochina and India should belong to the British... etc. In fact, any country that was ruled or occupied by another during any period of time, shouldn't "deserve" to be an independent country is what I see from your logic.

But let's get this on, why would anyone think that Tibet belongs to China. Dumb the historical events down for me if you have to because these analogies are getting quite ridculous.

tibet is very different from hongkong and macau.

Damn right it is; totally and completely.

[Comptine]

Regardless of whether or not Tibet is part of China (which I don't think it is), the main problem for me is the complete and total violation of human civil rights by China. Which is why Hong Kong and Macau don't count. They are allowed to carry on however they wish. They can practice the religions, government, and say things they want.

In Tibet, religion is oppressed. Many people support the Dalai Lama and they get severely punished for it. The reason why Hong Kong/Macau don't demand complete independence is because they don't find the need for it and they are essentially are. However, Tibet is oppressed and strongarmed by China, therefore, they desire independence because they don't have it.

[datass]

^exactly what i think. (will expand later)

[misoshiru]

I was at a Tibet-China forum last night. All Tibetans who were there at the forum made it explicitly clear that 70% of all Tibetans not in China, and the greater majority of them want autonomy with China. That "Free Tibet" does not mean that they want to be an independent country. Instead freeing Tibet calls for more human rights, freedom of speech, freedom to have a say in Tibetan affairs. Western countries need to understand that apparently "Free Tibet" is not saving them from the big bad wolf and making them their own country.


That was the voice of Tibet that I heard last night.

[misoshiru]

They just are not Chinese. Alright, discuss.

Then, all the ethnic minorities in China should have their own country too right? Lets split China up into 46 or 56 parts.

[Comptine]

^ I'm Chinese and proud of it. But China SUCKS, government wise and human rights wise.

And that is ridiculous and totally different. Tibet has it's own identity and own religion/practices and does not want to identify itself with China. Which is grounds for them to want independence.

The different villages and dialects and parts of China are unique from each other but they still very themselves as CHINESE. My family is from Guangzhou and Taisan. They have different views and practices but in the end, they view themselves as part of China.

That's the difference between the different Chinese ethnicities and Tibet. Tibet actually desires independence and dis-identify themselves from China, which they can't get until they break away and gain sovereignty. China is NOT about to accept the Dalai Lama or any other practices with open arms any time soon. China is NOT about to change its civil rights actions any time soon. Tibet will NOT get what it wants if it stays under China's reign. They will NOT make nice. There is no way for China to "own" Tibet and still allow it to have independence.

[misoshiru]

I was at a Tibet-China forum last night. All Tibetans who were there at the forum made it explicitly clear that 70% of all Tibetans not in China, and the greater majority of them want autonomy with China. That "Free Tibet" does not mean that they want to be an independent country. Instead freeing Tibet calls for more human rights, freedom of speech, freedom to have a say in Tibetan affairs. Western countries need to understand that apparently "Free Tibet" is not saving them from the big bad wolf and making them their own country.
That was the voice of Tibet that I heard last night.

[Comptine]

^That's the same thing as getting their own country. Because that's the only guaranteed way to get it.

And as many people who just want more civil rights, there are just as many who want complete freedom. That forum you went to is just a small section of Tibet, regardless of what the numbers are.

[illriginal]

China just wants to oppress the people. China sees Tibetans as nothin more but working machines to make the super powered nation of the future more money. f**k China's government.

[Spirited Away]

^That's the same thing as getting their own country. Because that's the only guaranteed way to get it.

And as many people who just want more civil rights, there are just as many who want complete freedom. That forum you went to is just a small section of Tibet, regardless of what the numbers are.

I'm enjoying your posts thus far on this topic.

[Spirited Away]

Caption reads: Tibetan activists shouts slogans from the back of a police vehicle following their arrest during an anti-Chinese demonstration in front of the consular section of the Chinese Embassy in Kathmandu. [source]

Just an update.


Misoshiru, I'm not understanding the purpose nor the meaning behind your post on Apr 23 2008 at 11:13 AM. Can you elaborate? Do you mean to say that because Tibetans are "an ethnic minority of China", according to you, that they shouldn't have their own country? By the way, I understand that they're an ethnic minority, but where are you getting that they're Chinese?

You do realize that Vietnamese ancestry is linked to the Chinese, right? With your line of reasoning, will you also question the legitimacy of the nation of Vietnam? If you go that route, you can also say that anyone with Asian heritage should be called Chinese; screw the fact that they're nationality is that of an established nation.

[datass]

i think the most important thing is that they get their human rights. they're being oppressed right now. they're not even allowed to follow their beliefs.

[Spirited Away]

Hmm, this Olympics is going to be interesting. I hope the events surrounding it won't interfere with the games themselves. The athletes worked so hard for this.