bye bye steven, giraffe, podomaht |
bye bye steven, giraffe, podomaht |
![]()
Post
#1
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
what you guys did was completely unacceptable, disgusting, and vile. banning doesn't do enough justice. i say good riddance; good bye, you guys have no place in these forums.
edit; for those who are wondering about the banning - ive banned these three for violating a member's privacy... and that's an incredibly great understatement. what these three did was find private photos of said member and decided to prey upon said member by posting said photos repeatedly on these forums. thats all im going to say but believe me, what they did was completely unacceptable and banning does not do enough justice. edit2; EVERYONE WHO ARE TRYING TO DEFEND THE BANNED MEMBERS: HAD YOU BEEN THE VICTIM, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? DON'T BE SO STUPID TO THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS CAN EVER BE TOLERATED. |
|
|
![]() |
![]()
Post
#2
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
/gg
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#3
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
although i will be sad(no homo) to see steven go.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#4
|
|
![]() durian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 13,124 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 3,860 ![]() |
I don't know about podo (assuming we're talking about monster), but anyway, is this about that whole nudez thing? Ouch.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#5
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
Why were they banned?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#6
|
|
![]() Pocketful of Sunshine ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 8,690 Joined: Nov 2005 Member No: 289,004 ![]() |
Podo was in on this? Whaaat?
[ass-kissing] ILY, Sandy! [/ass-kissing] |
|
|
![]()
Post
#7
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
In on what?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#8
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
the fake podomaht.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#9
|
|
![]() durian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 13,124 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 3,860 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#10
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
Now I know what.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#11
|
|
![]() R U A Q T ? [; ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 7,276 Joined: Jun 2006 Member No: 421,631 ![]() |
don't get rid of steven and sandy -_-
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#12
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#13
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
for those who are wondering about the banning - ive banned these three for violating a member's privacy... and that's an incredibly great understatement. what these three did was find private photos of said member and decided to prey upon said member by posting said photos repeatedly on these forums.
thats all im going to say but believe me, what they did was completely unacceptable and banning does not do enough justice. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#14
|
|
![]() durian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 13,124 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 3,860 ![]() |
Hypothetically speaking, what if a particular person said that s/he did not care that certain particular photos were shown? Hypothetically speaking.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#15
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
What if said pictures were not private to begin with, rather they were accessible by anyone?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#16
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
Hypothetically, if these photos were freely available online, and made so by the member in question, how is this situation different from any other of the numerous times many people have poste porn pics on cB.
I have every sympathy with Trish being upset about this, and you being angry, but honestly, I don't see how this is justifiable in the sense of being you know... justice. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#17
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
BUWHAHAHA...
OWN!!! ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#18
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
Hypothetically speaking, what if a particular person said that s/he did not care that certain particular photos were shown? Hypothetically speaking. doesnt change a thing. these photos should have never been posted by ANYONE but by the owner, if that was to be the case. What if said pictures were not private to begin with, rather they were accessible by anyone? again, ONLY and ONLY the owner had the right to share them, had he/she wanted to. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#19
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
Again, if the photo is freely available online, why are these pictures different from any others? By that logic, anyone should be banned for taking a picture not actually taken by them anywhere on cB.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#20
|
|
![]() Yup thats my girlfriend. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Banned Posts: 665 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 513,693 ![]() |
Hypothetically, if these photos were freely available online, and made so by the member in question, how is this situation different from any other of the numerous times many people have poste porn pics on cB. Word I posted porn before, can you bannish me also? I want you to murk my CB Account too. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#21
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
Elba & James: They were residing on my private server, so no they were not publicly accessible by anyone. They were accessible because I forgot to turn public indexing off that particular directory and they took it upon themselves to snoop around in there.
Christina: I said I wasn't shy about the pics but I didn't want them to be blasted all over the forum. If you want to send people the pics over AIM that's fine, although I rather you wouldn't because that is seriously messed up, but don't post them on a public venue for anyone and everyone to see. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#22
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
Hypothetically, if these photos were freely available online, and made so by the member in question, how is this situation different from any other of the numerous times many people have poste porn pics on cB. I have every sympathy with Trish being upset about this, and you being angry, but honestly, I don't see how this is justifiable in the sense of being you know... justice. they were not intentionally available to the public. and once again, ONLY the owner has the right to post these photos publicly. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#23
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
EVERYONE WHO ARE TRYING TO DEFEND THE BANNED MEMBERS: HAD YOU BEEN THE VICTIM, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? DON'T BE SO STUPID TO THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS CAN EVER BE TOLERATED.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#24
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
take it to pms.SIKE please dont.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#25
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
me aintt takinn sidee hur buutt pandoraa rite...
y u gitta go n putt hurr nakeddd pixx alll ovaa da forumm..? ![]() ![]() Elba & James: They were residing on my private server, so no they were not publicly accessible by anyone. They were accessible because I forgot to turn public indexing off that particular directory and they took it upon themselves to snoop around in there. Christina: I said I wasn't shy about the pics but I didn't want them to be blasted all over the forum. If you want to send people the pics over AIM that's fine, although I rather you wouldn't because that is seriously messed up, but don't post them on a public venue for anyone and everyone to see. whoo hur ginnaaa senndd mee da pix plz...? ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#26
|
|
![]() Yup thats my girlfriend. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Banned Posts: 665 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 513,693 ![]() |
I'm going to miss Sandy, I will forever remember her last PM with this pic in it.
![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#27
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
Firstly, I would never upload nude pictures of myself. If I did, then I'd know this could happen.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#28
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
Well... then they weren't public on purpose, but for whatever reason, they WERE accessible, and they violated no law in getting them, however rude/inappropiate it might have been.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#29
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
hooodd da bietchh fuglyy..
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#30
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
I'd feel stupid and embarassed, but I'm not Trish, and nor do/would my hypothetical feelings change whether or not they deserved the particular punishment.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#31
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
you guys are incredible. are you guys really serious?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#32
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
Yep. Are you?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#33
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
HAHAHAHAHA KC, that was flaming homo wait whats your signature line? but man that pic.
i agree with the suspension(not the banning) i mean i remember when certain members found pictures of another member in his younger days the member got offended. not going to say any names. dont expel the kids =(.maybe just a suspension?? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#34
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
We're not saying that they violated the law, James but I'm fairly sure Jusun knows the rules of his own site. It's not like anyone is pressing charges against them. Jusun has decided to permanently ban them from his site.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#35
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
Well... then they weren't public on purpose, but for whatever reason, they WERE accessible, and they violated no law in getting them, however rude/inappropiate it might have been. wen u takaa u ownn pix.. u n onlyy u allloww 2 posttt dem.. iff ppll winnaa postt demm den dey gittaa askk.. she sayy shee forgott 2 putt private... so it kindaa hur faultt 2 butt tha no needd 2 postt demm nakeedd pix... if it justt sum pixx withh clothee denn finee postt dem.. butt ppll talkinn boutt nakeedd pix hur.. ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#36
|
|
![]() durian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 13,124 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 3,860 ![]() |
Christina: I said I wasn't shy about the pics but I didn't want them to be blasted all over the forum. If you want to send people the pics over AIM that's fine, although I rather you wouldn't because that is seriously messed up, but don't post them on a public venue for anyone and everyone to see. I haven't sent them over aim. I was not the one who posted them, anyhow. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#37
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
that was a general you.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#38
|
|
![]() chinky ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 2,566 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 434,437 ![]() |
I really wish ngasduiujelkhsdf would type properly.
But in any case; I will miss those who are going. Esp Sandy considering I only know her. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#39
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
micronn... me sayy u lett dem 3 ppll comee bak n lett c wat dey gittaa say... DEN say GG own no rematchh...
let dem com hur n here wat dey gitta say... p.s stefannnyy.. wen mee typee goodd.. me OWN ppl.. me dun winnnaaa doo doo dat.. ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#40
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
QUOTE she sayy shee forgott 2 putt private... so it kindaa hur faultt 2 butt tha no needd 2 postt demm nakeedd pix... if it justt sum pixx withh clothee denn finee postt dem.. butt ppll talkinn boutt nakeedd pix hur.. blink.gif _unsure.gif yea some people take advantage of others mistakes.that was actually a good point nquoc. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#41
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
We're not saying that they violated the law, James but I'm fairly sure Jusun knows the rules of his own site. It's not like anyone is pressing charges against them. Jusun has decided to permanently ban them from his site. And I've decided that I don't agree... I think it's an overreaction. having said that, which rule did they break, precisely, and to what extent does it differ from past violations? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#42
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
im going to say this again.
anyone who's trying to defend the perpetrators. put yourself in the victim's shoes. how would you feel? do you think it should be tolerated? im truly amazed by some of you. just incredible. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#43
|
|
![]() Yup thats my girlfriend. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Banned Posts: 665 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 513,693 ![]() |
hooodd da bietchh fuglyy.. LOL word. HAHAHAHAHA KC, that was flaming homo wait whats your signature line? but man that pic. LOL oh Flaming Red Hot homo. I had nothing to do with that pic, Sandy sent it to me. Dawg you don't even wanna see the other stuff she sent before that. ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#44
|
|
![]() R U A Q T ? [; ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 7,276 Joined: Jun 2006 Member No: 421,631 ![]() |
this is so dumb.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#45
|
|
![]() durian ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 13,124 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 3,860 ![]() |
Oh well you didn't have to say it within the paragraph under my name, as it made me misunderstood. S'all good.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#46
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
im amazed too.*notes subprofile thing under avatar*
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#47
|
|
![]() I'm Jc ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Mentor Posts: 13,619 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 437,556 ![]() |
you guys are being ridiculous. steven is my friend, and i like him a lot, but that doesn't change the fact that this was altogether wrong.
why should it ever be ok to do that to someone? who cares if they weren't password protected? why should it be ok to go snooping in someone elses stuff? for what? because you all are so torn up over trivial issues with trish that happened years ago. just because you people are so caught up in silly internet drama doesn't mean that it's justified to do these things. just because you don't like someone doesn't make it ok. i wish for the sake of all of us here who are sane, you would all shut up and move on. because i like and am friends with the majority of you here, and i'm TIRED of reading this crap every day. you people think this makes cb fun, but it doesn't. i'm not the only one who feels this way. the whole forum has to put up with the hand full of you can't just move on with your lives and get over trish. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#48
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
just so im clear, when someone is banned from the site, does that mean that no feature on the site can be accessed? ie. PM box, profile, boards? The whole SheBang? yezzir.. And I've decided that I don't agree... I think it's an overreaction. having said that, which rule did they break, precisely, and to what extent does it differ from past violations? wow... u reallli dum aintt ya... wat iff me stickkk me dickk inn youu mouthh n takee pix n putt demm on hurr bietch..? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#49
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
im going to say this again. anyone who's trying to defend the perpetrators. put yourself in the victim's shoes. how would you feel? do you think it should be tolerated? im truly amazed by some of you. just incredible. And I'll say this again... I would feel stupid and embarrassed, bu tI'm not in a position to say how Trish feels or should feel. However, once again, it doesn't alter any rule violations. Now wasn't that a redundant excercise. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#50
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#51
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
you guys are being ridiculous. steven is my friend, and i like him a lot, but that doesn't change the fact that this was altogether wrong. why should it ever be ok to do that to someone? who cares if they weren't password protected? why should it be ok to go snooping in someone elses stuff? for what? because you all are so torn up over trivial issues with trish that happened years ago. just because you people are so caught up in silly internet drama doesn't mean that it's justified to do these things. just because you don't like someone doesn't make it ok. i wish for the sake of all of us here who are sane, you would all shut up and move on. because i like and am friends with the majority of you here, and i'm TIRED of reading this crap every day. you people think this makes cb fun, but it doesn't. i'm not the only one who feels this way. the whole forum has to put up with the hand full of you can't just move on with your lives and get over trish. uhh ye... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() And I'll say this again... I would feel stupid and embarrassed, bu tI'm not in a position to say how Trish feels or should feel. However, once again, it doesn't alter any rule violations. Now wasn't that a redundant excercise. whoo da h3ll winnaa c u nakeedd pixx... ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#52
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
And I'll say this again... I would feel stupid and embarrassed, bu tI'm not in a position to say how Trish feels or should feel. However, once again, it doesn't alter any rule violations. Now wasn't that a redundant excercise. youre the same retard who'll think raping someone is okay had there not been rules against it. dont be so meticulous about the rules and use your common sense once in a while. not to mention your argument doesnt hold in this case because those photos violated our pg13 rule, and posting someone elses photos without his/her permission. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#53
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
If we're going to resort to name calling...
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#54
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
youre the same retard who'll think raping someone is okay had there not been rules against it. dont be so meticulous about the rules and use your common sense once in a while. not to mention your argument doesnt hold in this case because those photos violated our pg13 rule, and posting someone elses photos without his/her permission. me agreeee withh da pg13.. butt post pix without permissssion... me sayy again... it hur faultt dat shee forgott... ![]() shee needaa knowww betta... dey aintt no justt pix.. dey nakedd pix.. she n tha otha 3 alll needdd sum commm on cenntz.. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#55
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Head Staff Posts: 18,173 Joined: Mar 2005 Member No: 108,478 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#56
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#57
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
youre the same retard who'll think raping someone is okay had there not been rules against it. dont be so meticulous about the rules and use your common sense once in a while. not to mention your argument doesnt hold in this case because those photos violated our pg13 rule, and posting someone elses photos without his/her permission. Common sense would seem to dictate that calling me a retard violates the rules you're so fond of, but whatever. And I believe that an action's morality is not defined solely by it's legality. As a person who has not one but two close friends who have experienced rape, I can safely say that I would not find it OK, legal or not, retard or otherwise. I'm going to continue the conversation I'm having with Trish via PM about the issue, as that seems to have the potential to actually be mature and productive. xxx |
|
|
![]()
Post
#58
|
|
![]() I'm Jc ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Mentor Posts: 13,619 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 437,556 ![]() |
you guys are being ridiculous. steven is my friend, and i like him a lot, but that doesn't change the fact that this was altogether wrong. why should it ever be ok to do that to someone? who cares if they weren't password protected? why should it be ok to go snooping in someone elses stuff? for what? because you all are so torn up over trivial issues with trish that happened years ago. just because you people are so caught up in silly internet drama doesn't mean that it's justified to do these things. just because you don't like someone doesn't make it ok. i wish for the sake of all of us here who are sane, you would all shut up and move on. because i like and am friends with the majority of you here, and i'm TIRED of reading this crap every day. you people think this makes cb fun, but it doesn't. i'm not the only one who feels this way. the whole forum has to put up with the hand full of you can't just move on with your lives and get over trish. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#59
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
cuz dey likee asiann gurll...?
![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#60
|
|
![]() I'm Jc ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Mentor Posts: 13,619 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 437,556 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#61
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
Common sense would seem to dictate that calling me a retard violates the rules you're so fond of, but whatever. And I believe that an action's morality is not defined solely by it's legality. As a person who has not one but two close friends who have experienced rape, I can safely say that I would not find it OK, legal or not, retard or otherwise. I'm going to continue the conversation I'm having with Trish via PM about the issue, as that seems to have the potential to actually be mature and productive. xxx lol. dont think your pompous words change anything. i was replying to the following, of which you so conveniently seem to have forgetten: However, once again, it doesn't alter any rule violations.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#62
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
steven more than others?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#63
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
I meant rule violations in terms of their proportion to other similar or equivalent violations.
And it's called eloquence. Also, your second sentence mutilated the english language, so I can assure you your ineptitude balances out my pomposity. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#64
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
I meant rule violations in terms of their proportion to other similar or equivalent violations. And it's called eloquence. Also, your second sentence mutilated the english language, so I can assure you your ineptitude balances out my pomposity. kid... fo reall.. dun actt likee u einsteinn... ![]() ![]() ![]() talkk normall n c howw farr u ginnaa go... dun pulll dat bullshiet likee u einstien with so call big wordd inn eachh sentteenc... wat micron say bout rite.. tha aint no manipulatinn shiet.. or lackk off knowleddgee shiet.. talkk normall kid.. ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#65
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
da kidd aintt goin nowurr withh alll diz talkk he spittinnn outt.. justt goin roundd circlee boutt it ok 4 ppll 2 putt up pix n shiet..
![]() ![]() Maybe the two of you should switch dictations of the English language... nah.. mee langguaggee 2 sick... |
|
|
![]()
Post
#66
|
|
![]() metalmouth hoee ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 786 Joined: Aug 2007 Member No: 566,794 ![]() |
This is.. interesting.
I feel for trish, and i think that all this drama is stupid. Like micron said, what if it happened to you? People kept saying all this crap, but you know you would be mad/annoyed too. People make mistakes, its her fault, yes, but just because she did didn't mean they needed to post it all over the forums. Jesus, Get over it and stop trying to make exceptions. It was bad. they're banned. Done. see how easy that was? ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#67
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
sum1 bann diz CHOCO puff gurl plz..
![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#68
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
lol
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#69
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#70
|
|
![]() cb's #1 fan! =) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Advisor Posts: 2,342 Joined: Nov 2003 Member No: 1 ![]() |
I meant rule violations in terms of their proportion to other similar or equivalent violations. And it's called eloquence. Also, your second sentence mutilated the english language, so I can assure you your ineptitude balances out my pomposity. haha ok. you win. tell me, are you like this in real life? what a guy. =) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#71
|
|
![]() metalmouth hoee ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 786 Joined: Aug 2007 Member No: 566,794 ![]() |
Nguoc, or whatever the hell your name is, why are you posting here when we can't understand you? You're not being pertinent to the topic at all, and your posts aren`t helping the situation, so, stop being ignorant and go away if you don't start posting something helpful?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#72
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
Nguoc, or whatever the hell your name is, why are you posting here when we can't understand you, and you're not being pertinent to the topic at all? your posts arent helping any situation, so, stop being ignorant and go away if you keep posting like this? OHH.. Oo.. Ooo.. u winnaa call Ngoosee outt..? OHHH u bettaa chillaxxx lil gurll.. ![]() ![]() ![]() u dun winnaa messs withh.. YODA fool.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU&feature=related ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#73
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
Did they post the images on the boards or did they post links to the images?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#74
|
|
![]() metalmouth hoee ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 786 Joined: Aug 2007 Member No: 566,794 ![]() |
nguoc:
Again, stop being impertinent and post something useful please? I have no idea why you haven't left yet. Tell me? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#75
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
Why don't you just ignore him? You're last two posts weren't pertaining to the topic either.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#76
|
|
![]() I'm Jc ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Mentor Posts: 13,619 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 437,556 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#77
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
nguoc: Again, stop being impertinent and post something useful please? I have no idea why you haven't left yet. Tell me? Why don't you just ignore him? You're last two posts weren't pertaining to the topic either. just pm him. you're being as "impertinent" as him. edit: elba wins BUWHAAHAHAH!!! poorr choco pufff gittin OWN..? shiet.. YODAA dun gittaa tryy 2.. ![]() ![]() me luvv u longg timee CHOCO puff.. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#78
|
|
![]() Melieized ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 1,372 Joined: Nov 2006 Member No: 478,715 ![]() |
ok...i have something to say and i hate that i have to but i will.
trish- you have every right to be completely upset. i would be too if someone posted pics that i thought were private. but you and i both know that the internet is not private unless you make it to be. micron- you as the owner have every right to do what was needed to be done. but banning was enough. making a thread about it and allowing cb to comment wasn't necessary. unfortunately everyone knows that trish is not liked by all so of course people are going to bash her. but, the majority really isn't saying that they approve of what they did. they just feel that trish's mistake of not being careful is what caused this to happen. now, for all of the young kids that want to continue to hold grudges on trish....GET OVER IT! unless you have unresolved issues with her then take it to the PM. i don't wanna know what happened 3 years that i have no idea is all about or even what happened yesterday between you two. just keep that stuff in the PM. my personal opinion (if you don't want to read it...then dont!): trish, you might wanna start lighting up a little bit more on here. causing enemies make life harder for you. start respecting others if you want the same in return. being the b*tch of cb is good when necessary especially with your power. but don't let that sh*t get to your head or else everyone will think that's why you are the way you are. and there won't be any way for you to try and convince someone otherwise. micron, you continue doing what you doing but might i suggest you stopping by more. there could be a lot of things that you don't know about and hearing it just from your admins might be too late. everyone else, grow up. you all sound like a bunch of kids crying about how someone was mean to you so now you gotta be mean back. if you all are supposedly adults or young adults then act like it. this forum is made for you to be able to have fun in, not sit there and create 20 topics saying would you like me to tell you how i feel about you? when you know darn well, that you more than likely wouldn't say that to their face. start getting along with each other and stop bashing each other. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#79
|
|
![]() ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 14,309 Joined: Nov 2004 Member No: 65,593 ![]() |
One again the cB world revolves around who? Oh that's right, our very own Trish. I was reading threads back in 2004-2005, and it seems these kinda bullshit drama and shit happened back then, and fast forward 3 years into the future today, and still same shit happens. And coincidently, they revolve around who? Hmm.
Total bullshit. No way should these members be banned for posting nude pics. Have we all not learned anything from the Vanessa Hudgens incident. Once something is posted on the interwebz, it will stay there for a lifetime. You said you didn't care about the nude pics, yet you go sucking off Jusun's dick, and talking and crying to him about getting these members banned. So is that really not caring? Really Trish. You're so full of bullshit, and it ain't even funny. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#80
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
ok...i have something to say and i hate that i have to but i will. trish- you have every right to be completely upset. i would be too if someone posted pics that i thought were private. but you and i both know that the internet is not private unless you make it to be. micron- you as the owner have every right to do what was needed to be done. but banning was enough. making a thread about it and allowing cb to comment wasn't necessary. unfortunately everyone knows that trish is not liked by all so of course people are going to bash her. but, the majority really isn't saying that they approve of what they did. they just feel that trish's mistake of not being careful is what caused this to happen. now, for all of the young kids that want to continue to hold grudges on trish....GET OVER IT! unless you have unresolved issues with her then take it to the PM. i don't wanna know what happened 3 years that i have no idea is all about or even what happened yesterday between you two. just keep that stuff in the PM. my personal opinion (if you don't want to read it...then dont!): trish, you might wanna start lighting up a little bit more on here. causing enemies make life harder for you. start respecting others if you want the same in return. being the b*tch of cb is good when necessary especially with your power. but don't let that sh*t get to your head or else everyone will think that's why you are the way you are. and there won't be any way for you to try and convince someone otherwise. micron, you continue doing what you doing but might i suggest you stopping by more. there could be a lot of things that you don't know about and hearing it just from your admins might be too late. everyone else, grow up. you all sound like a bunch of kids crying about how someone was mean to you so now you gotta be mean back. if you all are supposedly adults or young adults then act like it. this forum is made for you to be able to have fun in, not sit there and create 20 topics saying would you like me to tell you how i feel about you? when you know darn well, that you more than likely wouldn't say that to their face. start getting along with each other and stop bashing each other. mini mini... WTH me sayy boutt depresssion...? u stilll depress..? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#81
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#82
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
Ok just to be clear here:
I'm neither embarrassed or ashamed that my pics were leaked. I'm not shy about that kind of thing, and I don't think anyone else should be. But I am offended that it actually happened, and I was distraught that they were posted on a public venue where anyone could see it. How many stories do you hear about 40 year old creeps on the internet? Fricking B-NOX has my damned pics; the same guy that's been bugging Eva since he registered on the site. Maybe you guys don't realize that this is a case of sexual harassment which, as some of us remember from the Tung/Jeanna incident, is not something that is taken lightly on createBlog. Not to mention it violates other rules such as Non-Pg13 material being posted on the boards, posting pics of someone without their consent and other little ones like spam and member bashing (there was member bashing in the the threads; not saying that the pics being posted was member bashing). |
|
|
![]()
Post
#83
|
|
![]() /人◕‿‿◕人\ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 8,283 Joined: Dec 2007 Member No: 602,927 ![]() |
I'm kinda glad about Steven being gone, but I think I'll miss him a bit. Podo, I never really knew, but I knew he did it. I had no clue Giraffe did anything, but I guess you're right.
But one question, whats to stop them from creating a new account? If you ban them by IP, they can still use a proxy. If you just disable their account, theres nothing whatsoever keeping them from getting a new account. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#84
|
|
![]() Melieized ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 1,372 Joined: Nov 2006 Member No: 478,715 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#85
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
I am articulate and willing to argue a point well in person as well, yes. It's why I'm a happy, confident, successful person. Thank you for noticing. no u aintt fool... STHU orr me ginnaa go througghh u fukin comp screenn n PIMP slapp u!!! ![]() ![]() I'm kinda glad about Steven being gone, but I think I'll miss him a bit. Podo, I never really knew, but I knew he did it. I had no clue Giraffe did anything, but I guess you're right. But one question, whats to stop them from creating a new account? If you ban them by IP, they can still use a proxy. If you just disable their account, theres nothing whatsoever keeping them from getting a new account. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#86
|
|
![]() AIDS at RAVES. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 2,386 Joined: Dec 2007 Member No: 598,878 ![]() |
Again, if the photo is freely available online, why are these pictures different from any others? By that logic, anyone should be banned for taking a picture not actually taken by them anywhere on cB. its the same as deviantart, you cant just use a pic from their portfolio u need their permission, but lesson learned is never trust the web |
|
|
![]()
Post
#87
|
|
![]() we jerkin' ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Member Posts: 2,408 Joined: Aug 2005 Member No: 210,730 ![]() |
people are sensitive ass pussy's these days. what are u gonna do when someone starts bashing u in real life? lock there thread? comon be forreals.
Most people on this forum i doubt dont behave the way they do in real life well at least to random people. Why do people alway take things so personally. the internet really is serious buisness huh? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#88
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 5,166 Joined: Oct 2007 Member No: 585,858 ![]() |
people are sensitive ass pussy's these days. what are u gonna do when someone starts bashing u in real life? lock there thread? comon be forreals. Most people on this forum i doubt dont behave the way they do in real life well at least to random people. Why do people alway take things so personally. the internet really is serious buisness huh? stopp talkin WESLEY SNIPPEE... ![]() ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#89
|
|
![]() I'm Jc ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Mentor Posts: 13,619 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 437,556 ![]() |
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#90
|
|
![]() /人◕‿‿◕人\ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 8,283 Joined: Dec 2007 Member No: 602,927 ![]() |
As soon as they/or someone else reveals who they are, becuase I'm guessing they would make up some alias, they would still want to be their own person, and want people to know who they are and what their rep is, If I was banned, and made a new identity for myself, how would that help me, pretending to be someone im not. you can still read the boards if you want to, but most people use them to converse, so you see how that is kinda flawed with that scenerio, Thats a good point, I didn't think about them wanting to keep their reputation. And you're right about pretending to be somebody else, its a pain in the ass, I used to have to do it on the Newgrounds bbs (which is the worst community in any forum I've ever used) after I got banned there. I'm really glad I stopped using that hellhole forum. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#91
|
|
![]() I'm Jc ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Mentor Posts: 13,619 Joined: Jul 2006 Member No: 437,556 ![]() |
![]() you don't agree with jusun's decision, sorry. he owns the place, watcha gonna do about that? i have no clue topic closed kids |
|
|
![]()
Post
#92
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
Okay we've decided to reopen this under the following conditions: If you would like to say bye to the members in question, or say how you feel about the situation, feel free to do so. But if the topic gets out of hand it will be closed. What I mean by this is that this is Jusun's site and if he doesnt want certain members to be allowed here anymore, then there's nothing any of us can say. Arguing about the ban is pointless and only leads to arguing which leads to bashing.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#93
|
|
![]() Yup thats my girlfriend. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Banned Posts: 665 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 513,693 ![]() |
Okay we've decided to reopen this under the following conditions: If you would like to say bye to the members in question, or say how you feel about the situation, feel free to do so. But if the topic gets out of hand it will be closed. What I mean by this is that this is Jusun's site and if he doesnt want certain members to be allowed here anymore, then there's nothing any of us can say. Arguing about the ban is pointless and only leads to arguing which leads to bashing. Then whats the point of expressing how I feel? ![]() |
|
|
![]()
Post
#94
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
I just realized I said "arguing leads to arguing" lol. KC there are better ways of expressing how you feel other than bitching out.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#95
|
|
![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 3,645 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,975 ![]() |
How about they post their nudes and they can be allowed back?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#96
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
QUOTE What I mean by this is that this is Jusun's site and if he doesnt want certain members to be allowed here anymore, then there's nothing any of us can say. Arguing about the about the ban is pointless and only leads to arguing which leads to bashing. Can I disagree with that? Because while there might not be anything we can do, there is plenty that we can say. And if you want to put it that discussing the ban ---> arguing ---> bashing, you might as well go the whole hog with the line of ultimate causality, and just stop people posting, because that inevitably leads to discussing ---> etc. If someone gets out of line, stop them, not the thread. *edit* (I realize you beat me to posting, Trish, but I ammened 'arguing leads to arguing' to discussion, because I thought that's waht you meant, roughly, and it made more sense that way.) |
|
|
![]()
Post
#97
|
|
![]() i did your boyfriend ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Designer Posts: 3,335 Joined: Feb 2004 Member No: 4,071 ![]() |
Alright if you wanna play that game, we'll just delete the posts we think are out of line.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#98
|
|
![]() James killed the radio star. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,095 Joined: Nov 2007 Member No: 589,855 ![]() |
Or, leave them so that people can see what actually caused the problem, and just take action against whoever did it.
But whatever, It's 3:45 Am and I'm going to bed. Night everyone. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#99
|
|
![]() /人◕‿‿◕人\ ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Official Member Posts: 8,283 Joined: Dec 2007 Member No: 602,927 ![]() |
Bye steven, giraffe, and podomaht.
I feel this is the strangest day in Cb history. Or at least since I joined. I don't know much about before I joined. But yeah, the situation with the pictures was ridiculous. No matter how much anybody respects the three mentioned members, they were wrong. Then whats the point of expressing how I feel? ![]() Just go with it. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#100
|
|
![]() Yup thats my girlfriend. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Banned Posts: 665 Joined: Mar 2007 Member No: 513,693 ![]() |
^Roger that. Aye Aye sir.
I just realized I said "arguing leads to arguing" lol. KC there are better ways of expressing how you feel other than bitching out. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I know its already been said, but of course it was wrong what they did to you. However I still think the permanent banishment is too harsh. What they did was horrible but I think everyone deserves a second chance. I remember I posted porn a while back and I wasn't banned for this long. Shouldn't I get the Sandy and Steven treatment of a lifetime ban ? I was given a second chance. |
|
|
![]() ![]() |