Paganism and WitchCraft Options

[SasukeNaru]

Anyone believe this? I do.. the whole spiritual realms and energy and ppl who can wield powers.. yea thats true but the old salem witchtrials and folklore spread by word of mouth changed what witches really represented. They communed with the earth and summoned energies from it by either praying to a god or just being in tune with the earth. This is all stuff ive read and history books.. if im rong and if someone here is wiccan then please correct me. just wanted a view on stuff like this

Also- Satanism has NOTHING to do with witchcraft

lol if ur wondering why i looked this up, it was for my RPG lol

[Mini]

withcraft HAS ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with satanism. im actually a witch sorta.
i can only cast charms/curses. some of them worked ><;;. anyways, witchcraft is portrayed so evil by Christianity. but it isnt true.

[pikimoo]

Ugh.. I hate it when people think Sadism and Witchcraft are the same.

Some spells actually work, I've tried. (I wish I hadn't)

But yeah, a lot of stuff about it is fake and made up. People do it just for money.

So mote it be!

[ComradeRed]

I sacrifice to Pallas Nike, Winged Goddess of Victory, before every debate tournament.

[sadolakced acid]

paganism and witchcraft are different.

pagans worship more than one god. that's all. not nature worshipers, no.

Pallas Nike?? are you crazy?? victory, you may get while still failing. sacrafice to Pallas Athena.

it's out there, i suppose. people who can channel energys of the earth and such. but these people don't go around doing show biz. those people are fakes, in my opinion.

X-files. may Mulder be with you.

[ComradeRed]

Pallas Nike?? are you crazy?? victory, you may get while still failing. sacrafice to Pallas Athena.

Nike is a servant of Athena. By paying homage to Nike, one pays homage to Athena just as one pays homage to Latona by paying homage to Apollo and Diana.

[sadolakced acid]

praying to the lesser goddess does not bode well with the greater.

pray to athena and you gain the favor of athena as well as all her servants.

[Retrogressive]

well i barely know any about it (all i know is really wicca) but i believe that if you believe in it it's true.

[*Kathleen*]

I was going to convert to Wiccan. I suppose I was too impatient to wait the whole year of practicing before I could officially become one. I was going to be initiated and whatnot by my friend's mom who has been one almost all her life. I did try a few spells, and they worked, so yeah, I believe in them. They weren't things that can be found as coincidences, either.

[ComradeRed]

What... the... hell...?

What spells are these Kathleen?

[*Kathleen*]

Haha. Oh just spells to make me win more Lincoln-Douglas tournaments...






































Just kidding.

[y0urmistake]

i went through the witchcraft phaze.. have a book and everything.. did the whole ritual thing... even played ouija board.. however u spell it?

i dont know if i truly believed in it.. just.. thought it was very interesting.

[Mini]

i heard of wiccan before, ooooooooo too bad i dont know anyone who is actually in it...i want to try their spells

oh yeah i found an article that answers your questions:

Is Wicca a form of Satanism?
The short answer is "No." The long answer is "It depends."

To some conservative Christians, all religions other than their own are forms of Satanism in which followers worship Satan or one of his demons. So, they view Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Wicca, and dozens of other religions as varieties of Satanism. 
However, most people recognize that there are over many dozens of religions in the world, with different beliefs about deity, humanity and the rest of the universe. One of these is Wicca. Another is Satanism. These two religions have entirely different beliefs about deity, different rules for ethical behavior, different expectations from their membership, different views of the universe, different seasonal days of celebration, etc. Wiccans do not recognize an all-evil deity like Satan; he belongs to Christianity and Islam.

Wicca and Satanism are not at all similar religions. However, the Christian church linked them in the past -- particularly during the Witch burning times of the late Middle Ages and Renaissance. They regarded Witches as Satan worshipers. Some Christian denominations have not been particularly thorough in correcting mistakes of the past. So, Wicca and Satanism continue to be linked in many people's minds.

another:

Is Wicca a form of Paganism?
"Pagan" is one of those religious terms which has so many conflicting definitions that the word is meaningless. "Neopaganism" is a better term. It refers to a group of many religious belief systems that are reconstructions of (or patterned after) ancient Pagan religions. Wicca is one Neopagan religion, as are Asatru (Norse Neopaganism), Druidism, Shamanism, and ancient Egyptian, Roman, Greek and other religions.

[ComradeRed]

Haha. Oh just spells to make me win more Lincoln-Douglas tournaments...

Aha! I knew it! That Magical Flower of Zeus did protect me quite well in rounds !

[Mini]

Aha! I knew it! That Magical Flower of Zeus did protect me quite well in rounds !

i heard of wiccan spells and charms.

basically their spells are based on charms like evil spells and healing spells. wiccans are prohibited to use evil spells like curses to manipulate people. manipulation is VERY prohibted in wicca. so they only use "good" charms.

charms are basically based on manipulation...so its not like harry potter where you can cast a fireball or make thigns float.

anyways..wiccan spells and charms are very very easy (from phrases to movements) or very very complicated (to having rituals..etc.)

i wished kathleen would remember and teach me some healing charms. ^^'""

[ComradeRed]

Damnit, curses are the funnest spells.

Bireme ... $1,000,000
Ten Years' Warfare ... $100,000,000,000
Polyphemus's Eye ... $50
Enchanted Island ... $20,000,000
Magical Flower of Zeus ... $100 (in virgin sacrifices)
Watching your Teammates run around squealing like pigs ... Priceless

[Mini]

Damnit, curses are the funnest spells.

Bireme ... $1,000,000
Ten Years' Warfare ... $100,000,000,000
Polyphemus's Eye ... $50
Enchanted Island ... $20,000,000
Magical Flower of Zeus ... $100 (in virgin sacrifices)
Watching your Teammates run around squealing like pigs ... Priceless

yeah but only a few wiccans know curses and those are prohibited..so i dont think any wiccan would teach u curses if you are going to abuse them.

[ComradeRed]

I'll have to lure them to my evil island and force them too... All the spells in the world ain't gunna help u when I stick a Sarissa up yo ass.

[LaRevolucion]

Wicca...I once wanted to convert. I even told my mom, and she's like a devout Catholic. I did charms, helped friends, etc., but now, I don't do it as often as I used to. I still go into botanicas to buy my candles, powders, charms, but not like before. It sure was fun tho. I think one of my powders helped me ace one of my classes and helped me ace a test! It wasn't a coincidence...lol

[JlIaTMK]

ive always been interested in this subject and the subject of vampires and such.... my friend used to be a wiccan but she isnt anymore.... but once she said she would put a spell on me but shes not aloud to because its against their law

anyway i learned all of this from a show i watched called mad mad house because there was a wiccan on there called Fiona Horne
heres her website

http://www.fionahorne.com/

also i have a post on vampires

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...977&hl=vampires

[SasukeNaru]

Its a real tough topic... so much controversy and religious dispute but like most things, there is good AND evil. Good witches represent the white side of the wiccan religion and the other is the darkness or black. White magic heals and Black magic curses and banes life. From necromancy to spells of healing, these are all feasible to human beings. Why can we not wield such things?

History and spell books have been destroyed. Witches didnt want powers to be abused by descendants of dark witches (all which i read in my wicca history books)
Since medieval times, witches were always framed for the supernatural which ironically ruled the time ; from wizards to king arthur, basically magic ruled the world. Until time passed and witches were constantly killed for the "powers" they were gifted with and soon people who did not even share the craft became victims.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^^^^^

(im not sure if this is all right; just another book)


Also, people think wiccans can cast furious spells to destroy everything. thats completely rong. The Rule of Three or Rule of Returning states spells casted to harm or affect another shall be returned 3x back in intensity or duration. People think the craft is just easily adoptable and fun to mess around with but no, you can REALLY hurt someone and urself if u invoke the unknown. There are some basic spells like cleansing and healing that resemble miracles. But be forewarned, the craft leads into desire and can draw into greed and power which easily corrupt us all.

lol im done with my speech now ^^

[DavidxN]

whoa what a cool and wierd topic, i always thought witchcraft and stuff in that category was bullhicky but reading the whole topic really changed my mind

[lovebabygonebad]

HEY IMMA WITCH.
LOL.

Just thought i'd say so. Its true, since the Salem Witchtrials, and the Christianity Revolution, witches had to hide in the "shadows". Hence the name the "Book Of Shadows". I think the reason why Christians frown upon Witches and Wiccans (W&W) is because W&W worship more than one god (polythestic), and not just one "divine", so therefore is seen as a sin, because W&W dont worship the biblical god.

But truly, Evil is only in the Eye of the Beholder. W&W follow a simple rule, "An It Harm None, Do As Ye Will" meaning that in every action that the W&W perform is shouldn't hurt anyone, or anything everywhere, in the different realms, planes, and dimensions, as well as our world. This includes, from buildings to plants, the evilist of people to the most helpless, Including the Caster.

W&W also follow a "Three-Fold Law" which states that "What thee sends out will return to thee three-fold." meaning that is the caster sends out negative energy then he or she would also recieve consequences as well, in fact 3x the amount put out. This also works vice-versa for Positive energey. Release Positive Energy, and you recieve Positive 3x the amount put out.

One thing also is that W&W work WITH the divine to make there life better, calling on the God and/or Goddess that they feel strongly connected to calling them their "Lord and Lady". Not all W&W follow this, but from my understandings majority, or a lot, do.

If you need to know anything else, i am more than happy to help you to the best of my abilities.

[Jinjjasanaee]

witchcraft... I think it's real. I think when you use witchcraft, it keeps you from using your brain properly... if that makes any sense...

[angel-roh]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh witchcraft is more like Satan stuff.... what are you talking about? If you didn't know, in the biblical times, there was a witch that God didn't like. The Satan tells what the witch to do. Well there can be a bad witch and a good witch. Good witch doesn't follow the Satan's rule. But the bad witch follows God by using good spells.

Well yeah witchcrafts are real... cause it appeared in the bible hehh...

[Spirited Away]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh witchcraft is more like Satan stuff....

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. How about you read the whole thread.

It has been explained that Witchcraft and Satanism aren't the same.

[lovebabygonebad]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh witchcraft is more like Satan stuff.... what are you talking about? If you didn't know, in the biblical times, there was a witch that God didn't like. The Satan tells what the witch to do. Well there can be a bad witch and a good witch. Good witch doesn't follow the Satan's rule. But the bad witch follows God by using good spells.

Well yeah witchcrafts are real... cause it appeared in the bible hehh...

Huh?!?!?!? I dont understand your theory. EXPLAIN, POR FAVOR

[demolished]

oh wow, that's a very interesting topic. i was wondering if anyone can teach me some simple " good " spells and be my sensei

[.. no curse or evil please .. ]

[ShEraBaRoO]

whether its linked to SATAN or not, all witchcraft is bad and i dont know why anyone would do it. some even said that the spells they do dont even work. why have so much faith on something that doesnt give you any results all the time?

[sadolakced acid]

whether its linked to SATAN or not, all witchcraft is bad and i dont know why anyone would do it. some even said that the spells they do dont even work. why have so much faith on something that doesnt give you any results all the time?

how do you get that all witchcraft is bad?

but technically, witchcraft is satanism, becuase it isn't christian and if it's not worshipping jesus then it must be devil worship... (yes i know not all denominations are like this)

[heyyfrankie]

withcraft HAS ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with satanism. im actually a witch sorta.
i can only cast charms/curses. some of them worked ><;;. anyways, witchcraft is portrayed so evil by Christianity. but it isnt true.

i thought guys were worelocks(sp?)

[thait3n]

its intresting stuff, thats for sure Though, i remember when i was little, i was like soooooooo into the paranormal stuff, like the different kind of demons, ghost, creatures etc...and like portals and spirits o_o;; But that was the good old days..now anime took over my life X_X

[f4113n]

the salem witch trials, literally, were caused by severe teenage boredom.

a group of teens were really bored one day, and they began faking seizures and apparitions. the doctors couldn't find anything medically wrong with them, so they blamed it on the devil. consequently, many innocent people were hung and dozens more died in prison. i'm sure that if you dig to the root of everything considered "satanic" or "evil", theres a logical/scientific explanation for it.

then again, maybe its just because im an ignorant minority atheist, overruled by the overwhelming amount of christians/catholics/people who believe in god

[picaso_smile]

You know what? I may think witchcraft and satanism (I know they're not the same) are a bunch of crap. But, if you get spiritual guidence out of it and aren't hurting anyone then more power to you. I'm sure Christianity would sound really weird to people of other religions.

But, my personal opinion is still that that sort of thing is just... Oh well. It doesn't matter. Just don't let other people change your mind about what you truely believe. Find something that suits you and stick you it. You have to hold to your own opinions no matter what you belive.

[iwalkbackwards]

I'm on the edge, but I don' believe in the "traditional" God/Jesus figures...My best friend has tried spells before and they always work...So I believe paganism and wiccan are both completly legitamate (sp?) religions. My best friend performed a wiccaning on my kid, so I think it's all good. :D

[aznxdreamer]

i went through this whole phase where i thought i was a witch and all. i was thinking of converting to wiccan but i felt christianity made me more faithful and hopeful.

[LtothePisLifeFor...]

heh heh iwalkbackwards.. I'm your best friend

But anyways, my moms Pagan. She practicly raised me that way too, but she also always held onto the the fact of letting me choose my own way. I've done many spells and they have worked. Paganism has nothing to do with Satan, for anyone who thinks so. Just because it's not worshiping God does not mean its worshiping the Devil. I have a few spell books and I've always been so interested and believed in it. I however see it as something where if you think Wicca or Paganism is real, you have to really believe it for your sake, or really feel what your doing.. =/ Just like Christianity, you can't just start praying and automaticly be Christian. You have to believe. And, obviously I do

[wounded]

Wicca is cool. I mean, I'm Catholic and all, but yeah. I don't think that it should be like, "OMG! YOU're evil because of your religion!"

[DislocatedPuppet]

Aughness.

I am wicca, so I will explain the views of wicca.

What are you all on about with the spells and all!? Is this supposed to be witchcraft? What are you people, tv-addicts? Seems to me that you know only the hollywood version of this, spells,spells and more spells.

withcraft HAS ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with satanism. im actually a witch sorta.
i can only cast charms/curses. some of them worked ><;;.

I heard of wiccan before, ooooooooo too bad i dont know anyone who is actually in it...i want to try their spells

i heard of wiccan spells and charms.

basically their spells are based on charms like evil spells and healing spells. wiccans are prohibited to use evil spells like curses to manipulate people. manipulation is VERY prohibted in wicca. so they only use "good" charms.

charms are basically based on manipulation...so its not like harry potter where you can cast a fireball or make thigns float.

anyways..wiccan spells and charms are very very easy (from phrases to movements) or very very complicated (to having rituals..etc.)

Good witches represent the white side of the wiccan religion and the other is the darkness or black. White magic heals and Black magic curses and banes life.

Ok, that makes me sad. All you see is spells. And I get why it's facinating, but please. Get what seems to be all you know about witchcraft right, atleast:

Magic is defined as "the ability to make change by force of will."
We have a rule of three, part of the Wiccan Rede;
And ever mind the Rule of Three:
What ye send out comes back to thee.
Also, we have another important rule, also part of the Wiccan Rede;
An Harm Ye None, Do What Ye Will
This is not just spellwork, but life in general. These are the most important rules we need to remember.

There are thousands of different spells. That can be used for different purposes. But anytime we do a spell, we MUST remember the above rules. If you send out a negative energy to someone, making them say lose a familymember, it will come three times as strong back on you. That's not good. If you don't follow them rules, if you use your magic for such things, you get it back on you no matter what. You do that when you do good things aswell, but that surely won't hurt you if you healed another persons foot, would it? If you don't follow the rules despite the fact that you'll get it back, that's your own responsibility and you get no punishment from a deity or something, all you get is what you did yourself. Casting negative magic doesn't make you a "black" witch, whilst those who practice positive magic are "white" witches. I'd say more that if you do so, you'd simply be a very lousy witch and probably a rather unhappy person, concidering the rule of three.

magic is not something you should mess with. If a spell goes wrong, nothing happens, except it simply doesn't work. But if it works, you can't just throw spells around. You have to think, because you're actions have consequences, and spells are not things to toy with.
A love spell? These are really adviced not to take. Are you really wanting to make someone fall in love with you? You will have to live with the fact that the person doesn't really love you, he/she only cares because of a spell. And if you change your mind and realize you don't want him/her anyway, then what?
If you are gonna drag your crush away from his or hers bf/gf, so that you can date them, think about getting it back threefold.
If you ask for money, do you seriously believe they'll appear out of nowhere? Where will the money come from? You might end up inheriting them from a close relative.

Spells might be tempting, yes, but it's not a joke. It's alot of resonsibility, and it needs lots of thinking and concideration.

Here's a little quote from Kate West:

Magic is often defined as "the ability to make change by force of will". It is not about blindly following a series of instructions, reciting the "right" words or having the right ingrediences, like baking a cake. It is about harnessing and controlling your own will, or power of mind, to create the change you seek.

That's MAGIC.

anyways, witchcraft is portrayed so evil by Christianity. but it isnt true.

Indeed, it isn't. Our religion is from paganism, paganism being the biggest and longest surviving religion, one of the oldest religions in the world. Infact, christianity has a huge amount of similarities to paganism, as they have "borrowed" from us, just like pretty much everyone of the 5 world religions.
Wicca, my path, is over 8000 years old, and modern wicca became "official" when a man called Gardner "named" it in 1940. He is considered the father of modern wicca.

The christian church in the middle age tried to make everyone christian. The romans took England, England being filled with pagans, and those who didn't give up their old religion, got burned. Ofcourse, this never reached the official historybooks and schoolbooks, because any sign of paganism is deleted and erased from history. This suppression isn't over yet, in my opinion, and it makes me sad that you guys know so little about the worlds greatest religion, probably because you never heard a word of it, not even in religion in school. they even say there's only 5 world religions.
I'd say 6.
But hey, I'm just a kid.

pagans worship more than one god. that's all. not nature worshipers, no.

Kind of. Paganism is witchcraft. Wicca is a path is paganism, and paganism in general, ofcoursly then including wicca, believe in two gods, one god and one goddess. This is meant figuratively, not literally. We believe the goddess is in everything, in us and in the world around us. Nature AND human-built things like buildings. She is the three phases Maiden, Mother and Crone, like a flower is a pebble, then flower, then old and dying. Like a building is new, then in use, then old and to be torn down. We believe that the God follows her. Wicca and paganism is a natureBASED religion, but this doesn't mean we WORSHIP the nature. If you can see the difference. F. example, we base our rituals, that is, our sabbats, on the wheel of the year. I might post a short summary on wiccan beliefs here. I think I will. Because this lack of knowledge makes me really sad.

Please stop with the Spell-testing for fun, or try for real. Besides, wicca isn't about spells. Magic is just part of our beliefs. We have loads of other aspects you should read on before trying magic. Then again, many religions have magic, not just wicca..

[sadolakced acid]

pagan= a name given by the christians to the religions of the 'barbarians' (northern european tribes)

[RiddleMeWonders]

but once she said she would put a spell on me but shes not aloud to because its against their law

True. If you use magic to hurt anyone, but yourself. And you have to be VERY careful about this, it will come back on you 3 fold. And thats not just 3 times. Fold a piece of paper three times and see what you get.



My mother was wiccan at one point. We still have the books in the house, the herblore, candle making things.

[XoJennaoX]

I'm aware that witches are way more than the whole spell thing, one of my friends and her mom are witches so i learned a little bit about them, pretty interesting stuff. But the spell part specifically is what makes me a little bit skeptic of their whole deal. For me it is similar to Catholics who believe in exorcism. They believe that the devil can possess you and they believe in a certain "spell" or prayer ritual that priests can use to get rid of Satan, involving holy water, incense, the cross, and some other items. Or like miracles in general, a lot of people believe in miracles and they will swear by them. For example I heard on the news one Christian priest said he actually made the tsunami stop for a split second by reciting a verse from the bible and harnessing the energy in his mind, and he was being dead serious. There were also witnesses that agreed with him. ???? . It just seems a little out there for me, no matter who uses it, or how many people say the spells really work, just as people say miracles do happen and that the devil can take over souls, i'm still a little skeptic of the whole witch-magic thing.

[*not_your_average*]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh witchcraft is more like Satan stuff.... what are you talking about? If you didn't know, in the biblical times, there was a witch that God didn't like. The Satan tells what the witch to do. Well there can be a bad witch and a good witch. Good witch doesn't follow the Satan's rule. But the bad witch follows God by using good spells.

Well yeah witchcrafts are real... cause it appeared in the bible hehh...

Well, you know what they say. Ignorance is bliss.

[*not_your_average*]

i thought guys were worelocks(sp?)

sorry about the double post!

Actually, all practitioners of withcraft/paganism are "witches." I read a book about Wicca/Paganism, and warlock is considered to be an insult since it means "truth-twister."

[madchenallein]

I realize most of the 'Christian' world out there claims being Christian, but I believe there are really very few people who in their hearts are true Christians. I think a lot of Christians have given their brothers and sisters a bad name because they try to combat and argue with people who believe in pagan or earth based religions.

It's very unfashionable to believe that there literally is a 'devil' or 'Satan', but I do, and I'll tell anyone who asks, that I believe this. I don't believe that there are just good forces or energy and bad forces or energy. I believe there is a very real battle going on (on other planes if you like, between angels and demons, God and Satan) and there will be a day of reckoning, if not while we are alive, then for each of us when we die.

The unfortunate thing is, I believe people who practice in an earth based religion have been terribly deceived, some because they 'want' to be deceived ("I don't want to worship Christ, that's a mainstream religion" "Christianity is patriarchal, wah, wah, wah" "There are too many rules in Christianity") and some because they don't know better.

I believe that Satan does have immense power and sometimes spells and charms work, how else will he snare our souls if not throwing us a bone by letting us think we are using power, gaining power or becoming supernaturally in touch with power? I think people who practice earth based religions are missing the forest for the trees, focusing on the creation instead of the Creator. I mean, if they believe that the god or goddess is in everything, then they are essentially elevating themselves and the earth and animals to the level of gods, and I don't know about the rest of you, but one of the mysteries I love about Jesus Christ, is that he is so powerful and amazing I can't totally understand him or experience him, not in this life anyway. If I could, he would not be a big enough God for me. People can not control what happens to them, if we were made gods by the presence of a god or goddess in us, wouldn't we have much more control over our own lives?

However, I don't think it's appropriate to go around aggravating people because they don't believe the way you do. Whether you're a Catholic and they're Baptist, or whether you're Methodist and they're Buddhist, whatever.
I also think that my Jesus is an awesome God and he will provide for people who have never had the opportunity to hear about his love. I don't know how, but I do know he is a loving God, and I'd rather worship a loving God who wants the best for me anyday, rather than some capricious goddess who cares only for the cycle of nature and gives little thought to us individually.

Anyway, just some thoughts on the matter.

[antix10_kos]

There is so much anger in this world. There is so much ignorance. Simple matters of belief and choice of belief can cause the whole world to fall apart. It's all about what is in your heart. If you have love in your heart and you are a kind and decent person, then you are good enough and better than most. If you harbor hate and let it eat away at you, and let anger get the best of you, then you are not going to enjoy life or the rewards therein, regardless of your religious convictions.

I do not believe in "blind love" for all people. I do not "love" someone who passes me by on the street just because a book tells me so. I am not filled with hollow compassion for my fellow beings. People must earn the right for me to care about them. I will not waste another moment in my life caring about people who leech my emotions. That is Satanism, valuing your self above all else. Your emotions, your thoughts, your wants, your needs...It's okay to be selfish and it's natural to be selfish.

Christianity teaches you to supress these natural feelings, the force of self-preservation for the greater common good. Why? Because it makes you a mindless sheep, following the flock and reciting quotes from an ancient book. You become so concerned with following a doctorine, staying "clean", supressing yourself, killing the being within you, your "soul" if you will, that you lose sight of what is really going on around you. There is no one controlling this mess. We create it, we live it. We will die in it. After we die, the world will keep spinning unless we blow it to oblivion or some natural disaster wipes it out. 99% of us will have no lasting impact on this earth to anyone except for our loved ones.

It is painful for people to accept that they are not important, that they are nothing more than a grain of sand upon the beach of humanity. Which is why the myths of creation, moral codes, fables, and tales of faith and belief have survived for so long in this world. People need to believe something, need to have something to hold onto. Some (if not most) people could not go on living without their beliefs to teather them to this world. It doesn't matter if they enjoy their life or not, as long as what comes after is pleasant. Hence Islam, where an infinite supply of virgins await the righteous in heaven. Deny everything in life and we'll give it you upon your death!!??!?!

Others believe that they have the power to control their own lives, through magic, medidation, trances, yoga, spells....These types of belief have been around longer than Christianity, and are among some of the oldest religions on earth. For anyone to claim that they are "made-up", or "fake" is to drive a stake through the history of humanity. Do not assume that your beliefs are the "right" ones when there are many others that have been around MUCH longer and have really stood the test of time. Your beliefs may be the "right" ones at the time, but they might not always be "right".

Humanity and the societies of the world could best be served if people were free to believe and practice their beliefs in peace, without do-nothing persecution from the "right" of the world. No one should be forced to believe in a religion that they don't agree with, no one should be told that their religion is "fake", "crap", or "worthless". All religions are sacred, even the truly sick ones. And even if you find the practices of a religion to be unusual, perverse, or senseless, you shouldn't call them on it. If it works for them, let it go. Do not spend your life defiling yourself or your beliefs by playing "belief police".

Faith is faith regardless of where you place it, you know. Faith is always falliable, and subject to change and adjustment.

[likeachild]

you know why so many people are fascinated by this stuff?
they fool around with it and then they find out "Hey, it's real!"
DUH
don't mess around with the supernatural
you don't know what you're getting yourself into

well, isn't Jesus supernatural?
yes, He is....but He is a different person altogether
Unchangeable. Unshakeable. Irreplaceable.
God is, God was, God will always be 100% LOVE.

Christianity teaches you to supress these natural feelings, the force of self-preservation for the greater common good. Why? Because it makes you a mindless sheep, following the flock and reciting quotes from an ancient book. You become so concerned with following a doctorine, staying "clean", supressing yourself, killing the being within you, your "soul" if you will, that you lose sight of what is really going on around you. There is no one controlling this mess. We create it, we live it. We will die in it. After we die, the world will keep spinning unless we blow it to oblivion or some natural disaster wipes it out. 99% of us will have no lasting impact on this earth to anyone except for our loved ones.

It is painful for people to accept that they are not important, that they are nothing more than a grain of sand upon the beach of humanity. Which is why the myths of creation, moral codes, fables, and tales of faith and belief have survived for so long in this world. People need to believe something, need to have something to hold onto. Some (if not most) people could not go on living without their beliefs to teather them to this world. It doesn't matter if they enjoy their life or not, as long as what comes after is pleasant. Hence Islam, where an infinite supply of virgins await the righteous in heaven. Deny everything in life and we'll give it you upon your death!!??!?!

whoa. a mindless sheep? no, Christianity is all about love. 100% LOVE. Read the Bible. The entire book is completely about God's love for me and you, and his majestic, masterpiece plan to save us. to redeem us. to LOVE us.
Maybe you'll understand if you actually find out what Christianity really is, instead of bashing down this form of Christianity that you believe, a belief which is NOT Christianity.

There is no one controlling this mess. We create it, we live it. We will die in it. After we die, the world will keep spinning unless we blow it to oblivion or some natural disaster wipes it out. 99% of us will have no lasting impact on this earth to anyone except for our loved ones.

No one controlling this mess? This place is only a mess because we made it that way. We have free-will because God loves his creation and gives it to them as a gift. If you abuse this privilege, you can't blame Creator for not controlling it, He gave us the earth to live in and to take care of. It's our fault for breaking a perfect world.
It has no reflection on the person who made it.

There are no great religions. All of them stink. Including the watered down form of Christianity that exists today.
Jesus is not a belief or a religion. It's not something you choose to believe. He is REAL whether you believe it or not. Some people just refuse to see it until the world crumbles under their feet and everything they ever believed to be true will be proven utterly false

[madchenallein]

Huzzah, v@por!
What I see when I walk down the street in the US, and in Korea, where I live now, is selfishness, worldliness, greed and hate.

No one can say that true Christians are the majority and that by being a yogi, or following Wicca, or being a Pagan they are 'bucking the system'. Those are so trendy right now. You know what isn't trendy? Denying yourself, forgiving others, admitting TO THE PERSON YOU WRONGED that you were wrong. (Not saying to yourself in your heart 'yeah, I was wrong I shouldn't have done that, I'll do better', but going to that person and saying that, then ASKING for forgiveness).

You can't even go to WALMART, much less any mall in the US, without being assaulted by SEX selling everything. Sin IS mainstream. You can't even go to a Disney movie anymore without being assailed by the glorification of 'earth-based' religion, cases in point: Pocahontas, Fantasia 2000, The Lion King. But, beyond Disney, I'd say a PG-13 movie now, is what an R movie was 15 years ago.
Greed: Buy more! Buy this, get that half price!
Hate: Don't like the body God gave you or you have destroyed the body God gave you? Here, take this to bleach your skin, straighten your hair, melt the fat.
Wordliness: You're a good person if you have this, buy this, wear that, use that...
Selfishness: Marketing campaigns telling you to 'indulge yourself', like most Americans don't do that anyway, everyday.

Even here in Korea these things, wordliness, selfishness, immorality are prevalent, women walk around in skimpy, tight clothes. That's not loving what God gave you, that's 'sheep behavior'; it's popular so I'll do it. I'll show men everywhere my body, I don't care. Well, why don't you save that for your future spouse? And that's just one example.

If I could classify any behavior as 'sheep' behavior, I'd say being part of the trendy, Harry Potter or 'there is no god-god is in everything' or 'I am god' crowd is sheep behavior. These people don't have the guts to say, Wait a minute, I'm not going to dress this way because it's popular-it's immodest. I'm not going to say these things or do these things that 'everybody' does-it's immoral and disrespectful.

I'm not being down on Americans, or Koreans, I'm just saying that these so called 'elevated principles' of goodness to people, goodness to the earth, positive energy, positive thoughts; they're ridiculous. It takes NO education to say 'Oh, you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you' even horribly evil people can be nice to people who are nice to them. What takes courage is to be kind to someone that, in being kind to them, it profits you nothing or, hey, even you may have to go out of your way to be kind. Most people are too caught up in self love to do that. Only the love of Christ can do that, through a person who understands it is not their own love leading them to show the kindness, but that of the Holy Spirit through them.

Anyway, enough of that. I am convinced that most people who are in earth based religions, or are pagan, follow that path because they were not raised in church or they have misconceptions about the Bible, or they have allowed a hypocrite to turn them away from Christ. I feel the best witness to these people is just to be kind to them and help them and not preach to them in general. But, since this is debate I've got my little soapbox here, don't worry, I'm putting it away.
I used to let hypocrites turn me off from going to Church, but a very simple idea caught my attention and makes sense even if it is a little trite:I'd rather go to church with hypocrites than burn in hell with them.

Peace be with you all.

[antix10_kos]

you know why so many people are fascinated by this stuff?
they fool around with it and then they find out "Hey, it's real!"
DUH
don't mess around with the supernatural
you don't know what you're getting yourself into

well, isn't Jesus supernatural?
yes, He is....but He is a different person altogether
Unchangeable. Unshakeable. Irreplaceable.
God is, God was, God will always be 100% LOVE.
whoa. a mindless sheep?  no, Christianity is all about love.  100% LOVE.  Read the Bible.  The entire book is completely about God's love for me and you, and his majestic, masterpiece plan to save us.  to redeem us.  to LOVE us.
Maybe you'll understand if you actually find out what Christianity really is, instead of bashing down this form of Christianity that you believe, a belief which is NOT Christianity.
No one controlling this mess?  This place is only a mess because we made it that way.  We have free-will because God loves his creation and gives it to them as a gift.  If you abuse this privilege, you can't blame Creator for not controlling it, He gave us the earth to live in and to take care of.  It's our fault for breaking a perfect world. 
It has no reflection on the person who made it.

There are no great religions.  All of them stink.  Including the watered down form of Christianity that exists today. 
Jesus is not a belief or a religion.  It's not something you choose to believe.  He is REAL whether you believe it or not.  Some people just refuse to see it until the world crumbles under their feet and everything they ever believed to be true will be proven utterly false

If you misinterpret what I say, then I will say it again and make it clear. I speak from my perspective as a Satanist and a non-believer in the Christian faith. I do not aim to shoot any person or their beliefs down. I do not need to have someone re-state that the Chrisitan faith is about love. I must say, most so-called Christians do not practice this faith of love. They practice a faith of selective hatred. This is truth, look at where we are today. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, people saying that Islam is fake, when all it is a bastardized form of Christianity. Closer to the roots of Christianity than the forms of Christianity being practiced today.

Christianity is too much confliction to be true. God's will is unshakable, yet if you pray hard enough, you can change God's will to make a sick loved one get better? How does that even begin to make sense? Sometimes you pray and pray for an answer, a cure, a solution, anything and nothing happens? When then, was your faith not strong enough, was God too busy to answer?? When bad things happen to small children, like being killed, taken, raped, or molested, is that part of "God's Plan"??? If it is, it's a sick and mutated plan. Or when those things happen, are they just dismissed as the "work of the Devil"?? If children are really pure and sacred, their souls are truly their own and sin is "untransferrable", then why do these things happen to children?? They can't be used as pawns to pay for their parents sins....It just frustrates me, that no one, nothing can ever explain these types of things...

Then, there is this whole concept of "love for all". I do not promote this concept because I feel that it lackluster. As madchenallein said in her previous post, "even horribly evil people can be nice to people who are nice to them". That much is true. I do know for a fact that some people only pretend to be nice to you to get something from you and then once they get it, forget that you exist. I decided long ago that I was not going to deal with the fickleness of this "love". If love was truly in the hearts of who call themselves Christian, then this world would not be in the state is in. I will love those who love me, whom I trust with my life and my heart. I will not give my heart to just anybody. I will not rely on a mutual belief in an oft-repeated collection of fables to bind me to other people. I will seek the connections myself and make them with the most worthy. I do not hate those that I do not love, I do not look upon them as lesser or worthless. I look at them and I feel nothing towards them, a bland neutrality if you will. I will help those that ask for it but I will not help those who are too weak to ask.

I will end because I must attend to other things in the RW. If you are Christian, I do not mean to insult you or your beliefs or at least I did not mean to in this post or my previous post on this topic. My posts only reflect my beliefs, not yours. Be strong enough to counter but realistic enough to know that this world is ours for the moment and we must make the most of it while it is.

[likeachild]

Christianity is too much confliction to be true. God's will is unshakable, yet if you pray hard enough, you can change God's will to make a sick loved one get better? How does that even begin to make sense? Sometimes you pray and pray for an answer, a cure, a solution, anything and nothing happens? When then, was your faith not strong enough, was God too busy to answer?? When bad things happen to small children, like being killed, taken, raped, or molested, is that part of "God's Plan"??? If it is, it's a sick and mutated plan. Or when those things happen, are they just dismissed as the "work of the Devil"?? If children are really pure and sacred, their souls are truly their own and sin is "untransferrable", then why do these things happen to children?? They can't be used as pawns to pay for their parents sins....It just frustrates me, that no one, nothing can ever explain these types of things...

This is the result of people choosing to do evil with their free will. When bad things happen, they happen because of the people that caused it. How do you deduce that God is responsible for rapes, child molestation, murder, etc?

God's will is unshakable, yet if you pray hard enough, you can change God's will to make a sick loved one get better?

God's will is always to heal. Always. Not because people deserve it or anything, but because it is His nature to do so. His will is not changed because someone is or isn't healed. His will is to heal.

Sometimes you pray and pray for an answer, a cure, a solution, anything and nothing happens? When then, was your faith not strong enough, was God too busy to answer??

You have to remember that God is just. Therefore, many times, He will not intervene and save you from all the consequences of your actions. Many times, people only pray to God because they need a miracle or they want a blessing or answer, etc.
Do you want to see healing happen? true healing? I'm am very sorry to admit that Christianity now isn't really true anymore. It has been so watered down, many churches are like social clubs, the fire has died down. Do you remember what Jesus said? Faith like a mustard seed can move a mountain. That's pretty small. Many times, issues in our lives will prevent God from healing people. Remember that Satan is a LEGALIST. He is the accuser. He is always pointing out your faults. and God is just. He cannot be unjust. So when there is a valid reason that prevents Him from healing without going against His nature, (remember that he always wants to heal), He cannot heal you. Issues often include things like grudges, unforgiveness towards people, etc.
If you truly know Jesus, know Him, you can heal the sick. Too bad there aren't many of these people now.
People like Smith Wigglesworth.

You have yet to see the true power of God.

[antix10_kos]

You say that everything is based on the free will of human beings, yes, yes, I know this. That is NOT what I was talking about. I am talking about God's Plan. That mysterious thing that is God's Will. Can human beings interfere with this? Is it foolish of humans to try? As usual, I have been misconstrued. I will not stand for that.

Breakdown:
Humans have free will.
My View:
Yes, we do. We make choices everyday, every second of every day that effect the outcome of our lives. If something goes wrong of our own accord, we can choose how to deal with it. To accept it, to change it, to mull it over and deal with it later. Our lives are like a complex equation, infinite, solvable only in small increments, the bigger picture sometimes remaining unseen.

Breakdown:
Horrid things, such as the defilement of children, happen as a product of free will.
My View:
Yes, that is true. Free will can bended, shaped, molded, broken, and twisted. Free will is dangerous, and in a constant stasis. What a person wants now, they might not want later. We all think "bad" thoughts. Only some of the human race acts on those thoughts.

Breakdown:
The defilement of children and other heinous acts are the products of free will and are NOT God's Will or part of God's Plan.
My View:
Yes, they are products of free will. I also think that if you believe in predestination or that there is an all-knowing being who controls everything to fit it's master plan, then EVERYTHING that happens is part of this plan. The plan encompasses heinous acts of free will. My argument with the defilement of children is that children are sacred and for the most part, defenseless. There is no REASON why they should become the victims of such perversions of free will. If everything is part of God's Plan and everything happens as a result of his will (by "his will", I mean that God has chosen it to part of his plan, not that he chose the exact responses, circumstances, etc. I also do not mean that God is DIRECTLY responsible. Obviously, God cannot be held to trial for such things. Nor can I or any other being pin the truth of the actions on a sentient being such as God,) then God had a hand in it.

Breakdown:
Faith-healing and Prayer healing are asking for God to change his will, and his plan. If he's really all-knowing, then how can we change that knowledge and our destiny without messing up his carefully laid plans? And should we tinker with his plan in the first place? Isn't that challenging God, and a sin or at least a show of poor faith?
My View:
There is no such thing as faith-healing or prayer healing. They happen because they were supposed to happen. They happen because the person was misdiagnosed, their illness or injury was a serious, they woke up at the right time, they had excellent doctors, the medications worked better than expected, the person wanted to live and willed their self to get better. Praying or engaging in rituals of healing or other such things, have no benefit on the patient or object of the prayer. Prayer and other rituals soothe the participants. They provide a HEALTHY outlet for frustration, blame, anger and other hurtful, soul-eating emotions. Is there anything physically, mentally, emotionally or psychologically wrong with prayer?? No, not in my opinion. If that's what you want to do, then do it. If it feels right to you or helps you, do it. I personally don't do it because it doesn't feel right to me.

Breakdown:
God CANNOT always heal you because of certain issues (some sects call these issues "sin", others leave them to be called what they will). God WANTS to heal you always, but he can't if your soul is full of "issues".
My View:
If you believe, God has a lot of power. More than I or you or even the whole of humanity can collectively fathom. So I won't argue that just because I don't believe, doesn't mean that the power doesn't exist. It won't accomplish anything. God is selective, which is something I don't think is right. He is responisble for all of his creations, correct? What I mean by that is, he created us, so he knows that we exist and all, and he could strike us from existance at whim or will, could he not? If you've done "bad" things like defile children, abuse drugs, or steal from others, and you have never asked for forgiveness from those people and from God, then God cannot heal you. Basically, God is saying "You aren't worthy, I don't care, you are a horrible person and don't deserve it." You have to EARN the right to be healed. I'd rather believe that whether you live or die is not decided by anyone, that getting better is always an option until the moment of death and that faith placed in men, science and technology is more realistic than praying all day to someone who is unreliable. There are also times where people pray to die, but remain alive, in spite of much suffering. Is that punishment or do they have to wait to until it's "their time" to go? All of it so confusing, I choose to believe that birth, life and death happen because they have to happen, (on a biological, scientific level.)

Breakdown:
God is always just. Satan is an legalist.
My View:
In the United States, our legal system is called "The Justice System". Although it still has many of the trappings of a Christian system, Satanists are encouraged to enter the legal and law enforcement fields because we are considered to be the better judges, more just because we are more willing to punish. We don't believe in giving someone a break. We don't buy into crying testimonials or bald-faced lies. We believe in facts, in proof and we educate ourselves and take the time to make informed decisions. We see nothing wrong with death as a punishment and truly believe in "an eye for an eye". We, however, take that saying very literally. If you hurt us or hurt someone else that didn't deserve it and we have proof that it was you, we will not only take your eye, we'll take both of your eyes. Or maybe your hand or ear instead. Whatever is just punishment, is what we will do. (This part of the Satanist belief comes from The Lex Talionis is a law of equal and direct retribution: in the words of the Hebrew scriptures, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, an arm for an arm, a life for a life." ) Satanism also encourages vigilante action. If someone wrongs you, get them back. Don't always depend on the system to administer the correct and just punishment.

Breakdown:
You have yet to see the true power of God.
My View:
What is the true power of God? Is it that the lame walk, the mute talk, and the naysayers balk? The dead will rise, the blind will have eyes, and politicians will tell no lies? If those things can happen, then they will happen. I have dealt with many issues in my own life, some of which I still struggle with today, this very minute. I have had things happen to me that I don't wish on my worst enemy. I only wish them on those who did them to me. I have struggled with relationships my whole life, yet I still love. I refuse to hate anyone, unless they have wronged me. I do not point fingers. I do not blame anyone for the way I feel. As I stated in one of my previous posts, there is much anger and hate in this world. I will not contribute to that, not at all.

Conclusion:
Do what works for you. Leave me out of it. If you are right and I am wrong, I will not be angry, nor will I cry out when my punishment comes due. If I am right and you are wrong, respect that and show similar strength.

End Note:
I do not believe that God exists, or that Satan exists.

[likeachild]

I do not believe that God exists, or that Satan exists.

why do you call yourself a Satanist if you don't believe he exists?

[sammi rules you]

^ because it's not like he worships satan; more than likely, he has a modern satanist view, which is much different than others' perception of satanism.

[Melissad1016]

I have an aunt who practices wicca and is very happy with her religion. For those who wish to practice wicca or any other pagan religion, go for it! whatever makes you happy as long as no one else is being harmed in the process.

[*iNyCxShoRT*]

I believe in it. I believe that there are vampires, witches, ghosts, and all those things out there.

[not_for_anything]

Actually, witchcraft is manipulation
a simple deffinition

But i dont belive in it, What you described is Wiccan. (kinda of sure)

[JlIaTMK]

^ because it's not like he worships satan; more than likely, he has a modern satanist view, which is much different than others' perception of satanism.

Hm, actually, Sammi, for the most part I agree with you but....

the fact that Satan exists is part of Christianity, not exactly Satanism.

Satanism is more or less being narcisstic and believing that you should become better than everyone and... more or less are.
As I have grown to know, it's where you do not really care about anyone else around you but concentrate on your inner self.

I hope.... that is a valid explanation.

[crayonzUpMyNose]

i dont know if its true or not but that kind of stuff has always fascinated me. i hope its true. that would be cool.

[TaintedDesires]

Wiccan is not satanism. Only reason christians think so is because the horned god. There are three entities/goddess. Wiccan and pagnism totally fascinates me and personally, I think it's more belivable than Christianity.

[Bridget_rules_4e...]

my friend is a wiccan person and i might get into it, i dunno salem was about people scared of something more powerful or immortal so they killed unique people!

[EddieV]

I believe in Ki, which is spiritual energy. Once you can control it, you become a very powerful man...

[ParanoidAndroid]

I agree about witchcraft not having to do anything with sanatism. Witchcraft is simply the form of meditation or gathering energy from natural life forces and/or astronomy.

[inlonelinessidie]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh witchcraft is more like Satan stuff.... what are you talking about? If you didn't know, in the biblical times, there was a witch that God didn't like. The Satan tells what the witch to do. Well there can be a bad witch and a good witch. Good witch doesn't follow the Satan's rule. But the bad witch follows God by using good spells.

Well yeah witchcrafts are real... cause it appeared in the bible hehh...

Christianity believes that ANYONE who doesn't believe in Christ is going to hell and are EVIL. This includes Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc.

I'm studying to be Wiccan and I find it really soothing. It has NOTHING to do with Satan because we simply don't believe in him. Satan was made up by Christians, and frankly they can keep him. Wiccans usually get mixed up with Satanists because of the pentagram. We use the pentagram with one point pointing upwards, they use it with TWO points upward.

whether its linked to SATAN or not, all witchcraft is bad and i dont know why anyone would do it. some even said that the spells they do dont even work. why have so much faith on something that doesnt give you any results all the time?

Why believe in Heaven and Hell or an afterlife when you have no idea if it's true? Why pray if you don't know if it works?

i thought guys were worelocks(sp?)

Men are Witches or Wiccan. The word Warlock comes from the term "traitor" and they don't like to be called that.

You know what? I may think witchcraft and satanism (I know they're not the same) are a bunch of crap. But, if you get spiritual guidence out of it and aren't hurting anyone then more power to you. I'm sure Christianity would sound really weird to people of other religions.

But, my personal opinion is still that that sort of thing is just... Oh well. It doesn't matter. Just don't let other people change your mind about what you truely believe. Find something that suits you and stick you it. You have to hold to your own opinions no matter what you belive.

Good to hear that someone's open minded. Wiccans believe in relgious tolerance, and also would want their children and loved ones to believe in whatever they want.


----
Wicca is NOT all about spells, and if you want to be Wiccan just for the sake of casting spells and curses (which are forbidden) then Wicca is not for you. Not all Wiccans do spells, they focus more on the religious part of Wicca. It teaches that you must do good, and be good to all including Mother Nature. We're open to homosexuality and believe that you're just born that way. We also think that sex before marriage is totally healthy. We follow this rule: IF IT HARM NONE, THEN IT'S OK TO DO.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Witchcraft has NOTHING to do with Satan. Back then Christians just said that cuz they were afraid they might overpower God and stuff which they never did...

And about the Salem Witchhunt, the only reason why those girls were acting stupid was either because they were mentally challenged (even before they acted like lunatics, they stoned old people) or that Bahama slave the reverend owns gave them weed (NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE..after all, that Tituba, the slave from Bahamas, actually talked of rituals of getting high...)

Black Magic - Black magic is an ancient evil. It was originally used by satanists but then those satanists were called witches, thus bringing the bad name.

White Magic- the real practice of witches. Witches and Wiccans have a similarity, they both practiced the form of making medicines through herbs and spiritual power. However, they were all accused of using black magic T_T. The only difference is well..i heard Wiccans worship nature and stuff while Witches just make potions and perform miracles

[Boyfriendless]

I am a modern satanist, sort of, the name kind of bugs me because I get labbeld enough as is, so yeah...

[broken inside]

Wicca sounds like the most stupid thing I've ever heard, no offence. If it works, it's not magic, it's science.