kryo Options

[micron]

so kryo (james) wants to speak but complained to me that his topics are always being closed... so lets hear him out. also staff, why dont you openly discuss here about the problems kryo is causing. maybe by having the opposing views come together like this we'll be able to find a middle ground.

if you wish to participate, keep in mind that communication is a two way street. when two opposing views clash, it doesnt neccessarily mean one is entirely right and the other entirely wrong. try to be open minded, consider the opposing view(s), be honest, admit to wrongdoings when wrong, and hopefully together we'll be able to get to the bottom of this.

please keep away from personal attacks. if this topic becomes one big staff bashing thread, its going to be closed. a little tact never hurts, so lets try use this as an opportunity to learn from and understand each another.

[BOOGERSHAHA]

no big opinion of what he does now, but he was a great moderator back in the day and moderated the small subforums that few of the other mods even glanced at.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

This thread is not a good idea. But Ok.

I think James' mistake has been to keep aggresively attacking the staff under the veil of defense, and thereby has irked the staff to the point where no one wants to work with him, or cares if he is satisfied.

I think that mistakes have been made by that Staff (an example would be Suzzette's last post in mod changes) is to continue warning him when all he is doing is being something of a nuisance, and thereby isolating him further.

If everyone just said 'water under the bridge,' we would be absolutely fine.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Well, to be fair, I would choose a technique that potentially 'wouldn't' work, over on which demonstrably has not worked.

And in any event, perhaps it wasn't the fact that you warned him, but rather the fact that you warned him 'because he didnt do what you said.'

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Have you ever heard of 'post hoc ergo propter hoc?'

And that wasn't intended to be a direct quote, but rather an allusion to you saying 'despite the fact that I asked him not to several times.' We know that you did that, because we can all read it. It doesn't need to be said, and when you do, it makes you appear to be trying to assert your authority, when it is already apparent.

I'm not claiming that it was your intent to do this, but rather that little things make a difference, and if mods seem to be taking action because member disobey them, rather than because they broke the rules (even if it ammounts to exactly the same thing, and you're right to say that it does), that will lead to accusations of people being 'Nazi like,' or 'overly strict'

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Wait, sorry I editted my last post. Which part of that was it in reference to, or would you like to reply to the new stuff.

Sorry, I suddenly found more to say.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Well, personally I wouldn't have warned him over that, but it really wasn't the broader point. It was just an illustration.

I know why you said what you said, and everyone knows why yu verbally warned him. And the point is that it would have been better not to add the 'despite the fact that you had repeatedly asked him not to. It goes without saying.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

OK. You're not understanding the subtlety of what I think the situation is. Which is unfortunate, but so be it.

Although I'll reiterate that it isn't a question of what you DID, but rather a question of how you seemed to do it.

[brooklyneast05]

i don't think she's (suzzetteee) the topic of this thread though, or the reason it was made, so i agree with her about not seeing why it's relevent.

i thought this was for kryogenix, to hear him out
?

[*SayBloodyMary*]

So, you don't see how looking at the situation as though there may be faults on both sides is relevant? Well that is likely to end in constructive dialogue.

[brooklyneast05]

maybe ur right, i don't know, i just thought this was about kryogenix
not about her saying "Despite the fact that I told him not to do so"

"so kryo (james) wants to speak but complained to me that his topics are always being closed... so lets hear him out. also staff, why dont you openly discuss here about the problems kryo is causing"

i guess i'm missing how that one quote by her is us discussing the problems kyro is causing

who knows,
u guys can continue on

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Well, I don't want to discuss 'the problems that kryo is causing,' because that isn't an accurate description of the situation. I intend to discuss 'the situation which broadly revolves around James.'

And that one quote is merely an example of what I see as one facet of the dilemna. It's not 'about' Suzzette, as such, she was just convenient.

[brooklyneast05]

i guess i just had different impression of what the topic was
"the situation which broadly revolves around James"
seems to be being discussed in numerous threads
i thought this one was created to be more specific to him,"the problems that kryo is causing" as micron said, and to hear him out, thats all .
which i guess u will when he posts.
i understand what u mean about Suzzette was just ur example

rightio
we're good

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Oh don't feel the need to apologize, you haven't offended me. I just think it would be better if everyone if people considered the bigger picture in the little things that they post. Again, it wasn't about you, I'd just happened to read your post right before I posted in here, and it struck me as relevant.

[Spirited Away]

"The problems Kryo is causing" is a result of staff behavior (from his p.o.v.), in which case James' assertions are relevant.

[*steve330*]

Maybe we should let him respond for himself instead of speaking on his behalf.
Besides, he caused global warming, he has a punishment to carry out.

[Spirited Away]

So in the "two way street", one way stands those against Kryo, and the other way is Kryo alone to defend himself?

Not that Kryo needs anyone to defend him , but those who share his opinions/support him should be able to speak out as well.

[*steve330*]

But this is a thread about him, and maybe he should speak his mind before you start making assumptions of what he's thinking and the stance he's taking.

[Spirited Away]

So, in a thread about Kryo, only Kryo is supposed to respond? He's not allowed to have allies or supporters who share his views? We're not allowed to say why we agree with certain things he's done?

So, people who have a problem with him can tell him what they think he did wrong, but people who doesn't have a problem with him cannot tell him what he did right?

That isn't a two way street cuz one of them is a dead end.

[*steve330*]

GG putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying no one can support him. I'm not saying this thread is about his "wrongs." I'm saying that instead of speaking on his behalf about things you assume he will say, you should let him be the first to speak his mind.

[Spirited Away]

If this thread is about his "wrongs", then Jusun shouldn't have said anything about having an "open mind" and all that.

No one is putting any words in his mouth yet. We're talking about what we saw and how we feel about what happened, not what we think Kryo saw and what we think he feels. Big difference.

"Problems Kryo caused" may not be "problems" to those who support him. That's what having a two way street means.

If this thread was intended for only those who have a problem with Kryo, then I suggest making this thread exclusive for those who dealt with him personally. *shrugs* I only think Kryo deserves a fair "trial".

[*steve330*]

I have dealt with him. Does it have to be negative? I sure hope not. You put words in my mouth. But if you want to keep arguing over it PM me and I'll gladly keep arguing with ya.

[Spirited Away]

No, thanks. I'm having a discussion, no arguments here. Differing opinions doesn't necessary means argument.

Again, I just think that people who want to support him should have just as much right to post here as those who are against him, whatnot. "Open mind" and all =)

Edit... I've "dealt" with him personally, too... in a positive way even though we disagree most of the time. I think he's great. He went too far with the scary images, but he's awesome for taking a stand.

People need to be outrageous to be heard, unfortunately.

[*Elba*]

I support him

[*steve330*]

*shrug* I personally think he's funny as well, I just didn't think we should be stating what he thinks or feels. Supporting him is just fine imo, but who am I to judge :)

[*steve330*]

He's probably not @ a computer? Has he been active since this thread has been, other than maybe for a few minutes?

[Spirited Away]

Um, I don't think anyone has claim to know how Kryo feels about these things yet. At least, I don't see it. I just saw that James is saying what he thought Kryo did wrong and what he thought staff did wrong. Perfect two way street, imho.

Yea... give him some time to answer.

[*tripvertigo*]

The way i see it, kryo is like gandhi. the veterens have a big issue with the way cB is right now. Kryo is speaking out through civil disobedience. Sort of.

I applaud you, sir. Well done.

[*kryogenix*]

Sorry for my lack of participation, been too busy to give a well planned response. I will say that I encourage community participation as well, in order to show the staff that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[*tripvertigo*]

i've been participating here and there.

[demolished]

I'm supporting both. I do respect kyro's past and what he had done for the community other than bashing. He has a story to tell. I like to hear him first.

[*MyMichelle*]

I liked his thread in relationships about the shiny Pidgey. ^_^"

[*steve330*]

Yeah man wtf was that girl thinking... SHINY!!!

[Simba]

Will wait.

[*kryogenix*]

Sorry, was in NYC, driving in Chinatown is a pain in the ass, lots of traffic, missed the giant explosion by a few mins, etc.

Ok, let's take this one step at a time.

What was I suspended for last?

[demolished]

LOL. No one wants to deal with this thread.

[Spirited Away]

Tee hee. What happened? He was suspended for some reason right?

[*kryogenix*]

Killing it with silence, eh?

[heyyfrankie]

Killing it with silence, eh?

I don't like the way cB is right now that much either...
but i do feel that there are better ways improve the community rather than being a jerk at time. :/

[*kryogenix*]

Tee hee. What happened? He was suspended for some reason right?

Yeah, I want to know the "official" reason this time. The last time, they kept changing it.

So mods, why was I suspended and warned recently?

[*kryogenix*]

Same difference.

Now that we're at the point of the matter, I've already confirmed with micron that no spoilers were actually posted. What I posted was mere speculation, which has gone unwarned when posted by other people. Obviously we know Snape did not kill Hermoine. We know that Harry did not lose his powers to save his friends. So why did you guys insist that I posted spoilers?

[*tripvertigo*]

Because you were trying to be an asshole. We had no idea that that isn't what happened. You intended to be misleading. You wanted people to believe that they were spoilers. You wanted to ruin harry potter. You obnoxiously posted plausible endings to Harry Potter after it was made aware that the book was released on the internet. Now own up to it. Call me a nazi all you want, but you knew what you were doing.

Sorry, but that's hardly a warnable offense.

Warned and muted for trying to ruin Harry Potter?

I wasnt aware that there was a rule against that. You can't just make up rules as you guys go along.

[*kryogenix*]

And I did not break any rules and therefore deserved no punishment. Yet again, you guys made assumptions and acted prematurely and excessively. I would think you would have learned by now.

Since posting plausible endings is an offense, would you mind warning those who posted speculation on the book?

[*kryogenix*]

Ok, how could I stop posting spoilers when I didn't post any spoilers in the first place? And I seem to recall a group of mods posting something that caused disruption to the website around April 1...

Sure, I agree that personal judgment should be used when modding a forum. But when you're wrong, you're wrong. It seems that the mods are claiming infallibility when using "personal judgment" and they're eschewing being held accountable as a result.

[*kryogenix*]

Once again, being misleading is not an offense. Otherwise a lot of topics in the lounge would have to be closed. LMAO talk about double standards! So what you're saying is, the majority decides whether something is acceptable or not? Please.

[heyyfrankie]

no matter how valid or not valid you think the reason for being warned (spoilers) is...you were asked to stop repeatedly. And you didn't.

and that's just a blatant disrespect towards the staff.

[*kryogenix*]

no matter how valid or not valid you think the reason for being warned (spoilers) is...you were asked to stop repeatedly. And you didn't.

and that's just a blatant disrespect towards the staff.

The problem was I didn't post any spoilers.

.........................................................I don't think that answered my question.

I don't think your question is relevant.

lol here comes the cavalry

4 Members: SayBloodyMary, Arjuna Capulong, brownsugar, ventriloquist

[heyyfrankie]

The problem was I didn't post any spoilers.

though that may be true, i'm not saying yes or no, you were asked/told/wanred to stop.

I mean, you gotta pick your battles around here and when you consider your own actions around here lately, you knew that you were pushing the staff's (suzzette's) buttons.

[*ersatz*]

No one knew they weren't spoilers at the time, and the posting disability was a preventative measure. If you didn't want your post disabled, you could have just stopped. Everyone knew the book was posted on the internet and since it was never clarified by yourself when you were posting them that they were indeed "speculation" and not actual spoilers, no one could have known the truth. In case they were spoilers, you were stopped.

If you explained yourself as much as you expect the mods to explain themselves, there wouldn't be a problem.

[*kryogenix*]

My question is completely relevant. If you want to get anything solved, stop playing around and cut to the chase. I am going to treat you with respect, I deserve the same respect back.

For the sake of argument, let's say I did. How is that wrong? How many times do people post misleading topic titles? How is it different from your April Fool's joke (which was a horrible abuse, but first things first, let's get this problem solved before tackling that)

No one knew they weren't spoilers at the time, and the posting disability was a preventative measure. If you didn't want your post disabled, you could have just stopped. Everyone knew the book was posted on the internet and since it was never clarified by yourself when you were posting them that they were indeed "speculation" and not actual spoilers, no one could have known the truth. In case they were spoilers, you were stopped.

If you explained yourself as much as you expect the mods to explain themselves, there wouldn't be a problem.

LOL no. The mods were wrong. I'd like them to admit they were wrong now and apologize. Why should I stop if I didn't do anything wrong?

The mods are keeping an eye on the people, but who's keeping an eye on the mods. What I am doing is keeping them honest. I am doing nothing wrong but it seems the problem the mods have is me bringing their abuses to light. Too bad they can't close this topic.

[*Elba*]

Sorry, but that's hardly a warnable offense.

Warned and muted for trying to ruin Harry Potter?

I wasnt aware that there was a rule against that. You can't just make up rules as you guys go along.

[*Michelle*]

I do give you a minus one for trying to ruin Harry Potter, Kyro. Never thought you would have sunk that low.

[*Sandraaa*]

Kryo was warned for posting 'spoilers'. I posted 'spoilers' and didn't get warned. Why's that? Nobody has answered that yet.

[*tripvertigo*]

You guys are wrong.

Just because people were angry because they ASSUMED he was posting real spoilers is NOT a warnable offense. People being angry is not a reason to warn anyone. The approach here needs to be totally objective, and not based on the emotions of a bunch of 14 year olds because their favorite series might be ruined. That's the most retarded thing I have heard in a really long time.

He should not have even received a verbal warning, or requests for him to stop doing what he was doing. He was speculating. That's not a rule. Just because you make it a rule to validate your own selfish need to subjecate him to OVERLY harsh treatment does not make it okay to warn him whenever you feel he's pissed off another member.

I honestly think you guys are taking the things he's doing a lot more seriously than you would if someone else did the same thing, just because of his history with the community.

Some people just dont rub others the right way. Are you going to warn everyone in the forum that has "incompatable" personalities as everyone else? I wasn't aware that there was a cB aryan race defining people that get along with EVERYONE else, because all they do all day is kiss everyones asses.

I didnt agree when people were calling you guys a bunch of nazis earlier, but now I see what's been happening here.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Well, Sandra, link me to them, and I'll see what I can do. Being as we can't in fact go back in time and undo his warning, that sems to be the only way to even that particular grievance out.

LOL no. The mods were wrong. I'd like them to admit they were wrong now and apologize. Why should I stop if I didn't do anything wrong?

The mods are keeping an eye on the people, but who's keeping an eye on the mods. What I am doing is keeping them honest. I am doing nothing wrong but it seems the problem the mods have is me bringing their abuses to light. Too bad they can't close this topic.

The thing is, James, is that there are people who do feel that you were doing something wrong. In the same way that you feel that they were. Which is why we should just call 'water under the bridge.' Unfortunately, there isn't a right or wrong here to cling to, however much we would all like to 'win.'

As far as 'keeping them honest' goes, given that you keep finding new offenses, you don't seem to be having much success; perhaps it would be more accurate to say that you are 'keeping them mildly irritated.' And that's not because no one has listened to you, or because we're too stupid to understand, or whatever, but rather because some just don't agree with you. No one has a problem with mod 'abuses' being brought to light. Just look at Robbi and Diana's recent escapade. It is merely a question of what constitutes abuse.

Oh, and Suzzette could have closed this topic whenever she wanted, so I'm not sure where that comes from.

You guys are wrong.

Just because people were angry because they ASSUMED he was posting real spoilers is NOT a warnable offense. People being angry is not a reason to warn anyone. The approach here needs to be totally objective, and not based on the emotions of a bunch of 14 year olds because their favorite series might be ruined. That's the most retarded thing I have heard in a really long time.

He should not have even received a verbal warning, or requests for him to stop doing what he was doing. He was speculating. That's not a rule. Just because you make it a rule to validate your own selfish need to subjecate him to OVERLY harsh treatment does not make it okay to warn him whenever you feel he's pissed off another member.

I honestly think you guys are taking the things he's doing a lot more seriously than you would if someone else did the same thing, just because of his history with the community.

Some people just dont rub others the right way. Are you going to warn everyone in the forum that has "incompatable" personalities as everyone else? I wasn't aware that there was a cB aryan race defining people that get along with EVERYONE else, because all they do all day is kiss everyones asses.

I didnt agree when people were calling you guys a bunch of nazis earlier, but now I see what's been happening here.

So, you don't think we ought to ask someone to stop if they are visbly causing upset to other members? That's the broader issue, whether or not it's related to spoilers specifically, or to somethig else. Look, we can't undo what was done, and if the mod in question was acting in what they saw to be the best interest of the community, then they shouldn't be forced to apologize for that. Unless, of course, James is willing to apologize for causing upset. But both of those are personal decisions.

[*tripvertigo*]

Yeah I wanna see suzette close a topic that micron personally created for good purpose.

[*Sandraaa*]

James, what you can do as in warning me? Please elaborate.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Well, yeah, but I was joking around. What I really meant was that you could link me to them, and I could try and provide an explanation as to the difference.

Yeah I wanna see suzette close a topic that micron personally created for good purpose.

Oh, I realize what he meant. I thought he was refering to the power to actually physically close the topic, my bad. Although I would point out that Jusun's topics don't have 'untouchable' status.

[*tripvertigo*]

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced.

If I told everyone I had a penis, and it visibly upset any group of males on this forum that took an interest in my vagina, because now they might be gay, do you think you should warn me for that?

That's like warning someone for telling all the 14 yr old believers in this joint that Santa and the Easter bunny really doesnt exist.

Upsetting people is not something that should be warned for. If you upset someone but you arent breaking an actual rule in the process, i dont understand why you should be warned for it.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced.

If I told everyone I had a penis, and it visibly upset any group of males on this forum that took an interest in my vagina, because now they might be gay, do you think you should warn me for that?

That's like warning someone for telling all the 14 yr old believers in this joint that Santa and the Easter bunny really doesnt exist.

Upsetting people is not something that should be warned for. If you upset someone but you arent breaking an actual rule in the process, i dont understand why you should be warned for it.

honestly, i think it's a personal vendetta. rebecca was getting upset because she is actually a harry potter fan, and on top of that, a staff member. therefore, she was able to make up a rule to not have the book ruined for her.

[cori-catastrophe]

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced.

If I told everyone I had a penis, and it visibly upset any group of males on this forum that took an interest in my vagina, because now they might be gay, do you think you should warn me for that?

That's like warning someone for telling all the 14 yr old believers in this joint that Santa and the Easter bunny really doesnt exist.

Upsetting people is not something that should be warned for. If you upset someone but you arent breaking an actual rule in the process, i dont understand why you should be warned for it.

agreed. in reality, people get upset over very small things. if someone told me that my name was cori, and i got upset with them, would you do the same as you did to james?

[*Sandraaa*]

James, this is one of my spoilers: http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...t&p=2637745

This topic has got LOTS of spoilers too:
http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...=180795&hl=

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced.

If I told everyone I had a penis, and it visibly upset any group of males on this forum that took an interest in my vagina, because now they might be gay, do you think you should warn me for that?

That's like warning someone for telling all the 14 yr old believers in this joint that Santa and the Easter bunny really doesnt exist.

Upsetting people is not something that should be warned for. If you upset someone but you arent breaking an actual rule in the process, i dont understand why you should be warned for it.

Well, one has to evaluate each situation individually, depending on the level of upset.

And frankly, other that forcing whoever it was who warned James to apologize, which is completely meaninless if they don't mean it, and there is no reason why they should if they think they were in the right, or possibly building a time machine, what exactly would you (or anyone, really) like us to do about the matter? Because honestly, this isn't particulalrly constructive. We realize that some people feel that situation was mishandled. So now what?

Sandra: The first one was clearly discernable as a joke, and as far as the second one goes, Podo was warned for that (well, not that one specifically, I don't think, but as part of his whole spree), so there isn't a discrepency there.

[*Sandraaa*]

Fine. It was a joke.

Read the whole thread James (the second link) and you'll see different spoilers.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

^ Oh, I've just seen what you meant, and Elba's spoilers were in tags (I think Rebecca added the ones to Podo's post, just to be clear), so she was fine, although somewhat tiresome, and Steven's were again clearly in jest.

[*Sandraaa*]

Oh. All covered up I guess.

[*tripvertigo*]

And frankly, other that forcing whoever it was who warned James to apologize, which is completely meaninless if they don't mean it, and there is no reason why they should if they think they were in the right, or possibly building a time machine, what exactly would you (or anyone, really) like us to do about the matter? Because honestly, this isn't particulalrly constructive. We realize that some people feel that situation was mishandled. So now what?

first off, maybe you should read the objective of this thread. it's in the first post made by micron.

second off, we're discussing this now,

A: because james (as he's said many times) would like an apology.
B: to stop things like this from happening in the future.


I thought that was obvious.


This Is the feedback forum isnt it? I'm not just tripping here?

^ Oh, I've just seen what you meant, and Elba's spoilers were in tags (I think Rebecca added the ones to Podo's post, just to be clear), so she was fine, although somewhat tiresome, and Steven's were again clearly in jest.

So how do you know James' posts werent just in jest? Seriously, you guys have been discriminating against James like you've red flagged all his posts and then you all sit down and decide which ones can be the very LEAST considered offensive by ANY standards.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Yes, Trish. Not being illterate, I do in fact understand the purpose of the thread. I just don't consider it particularly constructive.

As far as a and b go.

A: Yes, again, not being completely stupid, I think we're aware that James wants n apology. However, that doesn't oblige anyone to give him one if they don't feel they were in the wrong. Discussion about that is pointless unless either party actually means the apology, rather than being pressured into it for the sake of things, as I have already said.

B: Unless one finds a magic potion to make everyone's personal judgement identical, which seems unlikely to occur in the immediate future, then things like this happening is inevitable. Sorry.

---

Oh, and I was just offering my speculation (see, individuals here) as to the difference. The key word in my post was 'discernably.' And I don't think James is being discriminated against. Although I would like to point out that if someone sees what they perceive to be rule breaking, and act on it, that doesn't constitute discrimination, even if it happens to be one member repeatedly. If the rules leave too much room for such discrepency, then that is a seperate issue, but shoudln't be confused with bias. Again, however, what is past is past, and what would be more constructive would be to reevaluate the system, rather than retredding old ground.

[*tripvertigo*]

Feedback.

Forum.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Response to Feedback.

Forum.

Your question?

[*tripvertigo*]

my question is:

How far is that stick really shoved up your cornhole?

[*SayBloodyMary*]

I drive it in deeper every night, just so I can be the only one being in any way difficult.

[*tripvertigo*]

That's hot. Youtube that.

[HakunaMatata]

James [kryo], why did you continually post the speculations after being told not to?

[*Sandraaa*]

... so, we were talking about Kryo?

[*tripvertigo*]

Maybe he did it because there's no reason not to. We're not obligated to do everything the mods tell us to do. We're ASKED to do what they say in good REASON.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Which is fine, and a perfectly legitimate attitude. However, it isn't particularly sensible to expect that to be without consequence.

[*tripvertigo*]

Yeah it is sensable.

Was he posting a spoiler?

No.

Is it against the rules to speculate?

No.

So was he breaking a rule?

No.

So do the mods have any right to ask him to stop doing what he's doing?

No.


So should he be warned for doing something clearly within his rights to do, that is not stated in any of the rules, just because people were upset that what he said MIGHT be true about the book?


No.


What is the objective of a thread on any book if not to SPECULATE on what might happen next?

Do you seriously expect everyone to just post the same "YEAH, CANT WAIT TILL IT COMES OUT. IM GONNA BUY IT. I LOVE THE BOOKS." over and over again?

That hardly leads to any intelligent discussion on such a classic series.


And I cant imagine that anyone who WAS upset by his speculations is STILL upset, knowing now that they are clearly not true. Most people would just say

"wow that was a dick move."

and move on.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

*sensible

Again, that's fine. However, he was causing upset, which, while it doesn't violate a specific rule, caused whoever warned him to act for what they perceived to be the greater good. If there is disagreement about that course of action (and I think we've established that there is), that is unfortunate. However, unless someone can propose a solution which means that no judgement will have to be excercised in these situations, these things will happen.

And I can't imagine anyone is upset now. That would be why action was taken then, and not today. However, if someone can say 'what a dick move,' and move on about some things, why not others?

[*kryogenix*]

So now we're punishing people whenever someone is upset over someone else's actions? In that case, can I warn brownsugar and superstitious because clearly a number of people are upset by this? How many people need to be upset before they can be warned?

What I've been saying all along is judgment is fine, but there has to be responsibility when you f**k up. The fact that you guys think that not even an apology should be made smacks of arrogance.

[*kryogenix*]

And I can back up my claims with reasonable arguments. You guys merely close my threads and try to avoid discussing the issue. So far, I've been right about mostly everything and you guys have been wrong and apologized and admitted (albeit begrudgingly) to your mistakes.

[*kryogenix*]

Your opinion is that you were right.
How does that make it law?

lol relativist argument. It's not my opinion that I was right. I was right beyond a reasonable doubt. I was warned because you claimed I posted spoilers. However, I did not post spoilers.

Then you attempt to recover by saying it caused a ruckus, and I counter by saying besides the complete subjectivity of this unwritten rule, the mods did a similar thing that went unpunished, as do many posters on a daily basis in the lounge. When I ask for criteria, you pull out the "well that's your opinion card." Pretty weak.

And how are we avoiding discussion?!

You haven't answered my question yet have you?

[*kryogenix*]

Go read the topic over, lazy. Keep reading it until you can't feign ignorance anymore.

You're here to answer my questions. I am the prosecutor, when it's your time to cross examine, you can ask questions then.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

Your opinion is that you were right.
How does that make it law?

in the same regards, how does someone being offended by spoilers make it a law, warranting warnings?

oh right, because one of the people offended was a mod.

[*superstitious*]

Ok, as I've mentioned in the absent threads (both in The Lounge and in the Backstage thread), I'm right smack dab in the middle of moving so I don't have a lot of time. I would like to try my best to touch a little upon this though.

Before you (any of you) are quick to come to conclusions, I have NOT read this entire thread yet, due to time limitations.

honestly, i think it's a personal vendetta. rebecca was getting upset because she is actually a harry potter fan, and on top of that, a staff member. therefore, she was able to make up a rule to not have the book ruined for her.

Actually, the book (seemingly, at that point) was already ruined for me. In fact, when cB was upgraded (Friday?) the spoiler tags were not working. There was someone (Rachel, I think) that was upset that she came across spoilers. I made it a point to cover them. Obviously I had read them to do so. There's no personal vendetta here. No offense, but outside this site I don't give Kryo a single thought. I have much more important things to worry about than a member of an online forum, especially to the point of having any type of vendetta against them.

And I can back up my claims with reasonable arguments. You guys merely close my threads and try to avoid discussing the issue. So far, I've been right about mostly everything and you guys have been wrong and apologized and admitted (albeit begrudgingly) to your mistakes.

When have I ever tried avoiding discussing anything with you? Every time you PM me, I PM you back as soon as I possibly can.

And you haven't been right about everything nor do I apologize for the verbal warning I gave you. Forget about the spoiler thing for a second. How many times have you bashed people here? Seriously? How about that signature of yours? Yes, I told you that I wasn't offended by it, but that still doesn't mean that it isn't bashing.

The thing is, you have demonstrated a serious disregard for many, not just staff. You've even said that you have a distaste for the community.

Like I said above, I don't think about you outside this site. I don't think about you when I'm ON this site. I address things as they come up. You have had plenty of opportunities to have the stage. I think that this thread is a really sad, but not for reasons you may come up with. I think this is really a big act of narcissism on your part, to disrupt the community because you feel like you are the center of the staff's universe, for better or for worse. That came out more blunt than I would have preferred, but I thought I would be frank with you and also because I'm way tired right now. I was trying to convey the idea (in probably a not-so-good way) that you are not at all singled out, despite what you may think. =X

I think we do a pretty damn good job in general. Add to that, I think you are pretty good guy, I have no beef with you, I don't even know you. I react to situations as they come up and I will not now, nor will I ever apologize for the judgments I have made or the warnings I have given unless they are truly wrong and I do not feel that they have been wrong in your case(s). When I feel that I have done something wrong, I will let you or any injured party know. I am not unapproachable. People have PMd me before when they have disagreed with me and I listen. When I ask people to PM me to clarify why they think something needs to be reopened, I listen and more often than not, a simple communication like that will end up in a reopened thread.

One thing that you are neglecting to bring up here, is the time that Ju-Sun himself had asked you something simple. Remember this thread?
http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=180096

this topic is misleading.

kryo, if you were acting on good faith and truly wished to discuss the autobiography by dick gregory, you would have stated so in your original post to avoid people from misunderstanding your intent (especially so because N is such a sensitive word). im going to take your lack of clarification as a motive to intentionally mislead, so im going to close this topic.

if you wish to touch upon anything controversial next time, i suggest that you clarify and make sure no one misunderstands your intent.

Do you remember what you did in response? I do. You made this thread.

Dangit, I wish I had more time because I'm jumping all over the place. I apologize for that. The point I was trying to make with the above examples is that you get angry for people warning you without giving you a chance. We have.

The spoiler thing happened after that. See, the spoiler rule was in the works before you did your thing. Foilers, sure. But at the time they were considered spoilers. Why? There is a speculation thread in the Books Forum. Why, if your intent was truly to speculate, did you not post that there? And why did you post them as fact? Why when you were asked not to did you continue? Did you PM me, Suzzette or whoever was on at the time to say ANYTHING? How about... "hey, I'm just messing around." It's about courtesy. You want us to be courteous, to listen, right? What? We don't deserve the same in return? Instead you just kept right on doing it. We had every right to do what we did. In fact, right before I asked you to stop I looked around at another Forum I frequent. Not only are spoilers/foilers forbidden without spoilers tags, but people are immediately punished when doing so. No verbal warning, no please stops.

So this idea, that because what you had posted didn't come to be what actually happened in the books meant that you didn't post spoilers and that staff made a mistake warning for such, doesn't have merit. It is a part of a snippet of time in which you were posting spoilers. It also jived with a lot of what was circulating around the net. I researched that intentionally at the time, even though I like Harry Potter and didn't want to read spoilers. I did so because I didn't want people being disappointed here.

What I think is a little on the irony side is that I did so to help people and didn't do so for myself at all. Obviously I had read what seemed plausible at the time.

I understand that you may disagree with is. May? I jest, I know you will disagree with this. Regardless, I stand by my decisions and I feel good about my decisions.

That's pretty much all I have to say about it. I've got other things to do here at cB than to rehash what we will never see eye to eye on. I'm sorry, but that is the reality.

I really do wish you the best and although I don't apologize to you for my actions because I stand by them, I do apologize that you are so upset by them. That has never been my intention nor will it ever be. I would like for you to feel comfortable here, hell, maybe even like it here again.

Chances are I will not come by this thread for a long while, since I have already spent too much time on the computer as it is. As I mentioned in a different thread, if there is something that you really would like to point out to me, please feel free to link the quote to me in a PM so that I may hop right to it.

In a couple of weeks or so (should just be a couple) I will be back full swing.

PS, sorry if there's a lot of typos or if some sentences are too run-on or at times incoherent even.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

It wasn't one person. It was many, many people. And there was already a rule about controversy before the spoiler fest. The spoiler rule was a clarification.

but like he said, a lot of people don't like the stuff you do...we just don't have the power to do anything because you overthrow us.

[*SayBloodyMary*]

So now we're punishing people whenever someone is upset over someone else's actions? In that case, can I warn brownsugar and superstitious because clearly a number of people are upset by this? How many people need to be upset before they can be warned?

What I've been saying all along is judgment is fine, but there has to be responsibility when you f**k up. The fact that you guys think that not even an apology should be made smacks of arrogance.

What I said was that there is no point in forcing an apology, because it is meaningless unless the person means it (except more eloquently than that when my brain works properly).

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

just because you guys act like this is the government, it's far different.

[*davinci*]

but like he said, a lot of people don't like the stuff you do...we just don't have the power to do anything because you overthrow us.

Who are these "people"? And why hasn't anyone but Kryo James spoken up if their issues are genuine?

[*SayBloodyMary*]

Anyway. AGAIN, what do you think we are going to accomplish by rehashing the argument about the spoiler debacle? That someone will eventually cave? IT. IS. DONE. WITH.

Clearly, we all think we're right. That is shocking, appaling, and so on and so forth. However, as we can't change it, and nothing new is being brought to the table regarding this specific incident, meaning that we aren't getting anything from it anymore, why don't we all just shake hands and say 'I don't like you, but I'm over it?'

Will it help if I say please?

[*kryogenix*]

thanks for the response, superstitious, I'll address the relevant points now and the other stuff when you're back.

Keep in mind, let's try keeping any responses relevant to the spoiler issue.

Actually, the book (seemingly, at that point) was already ruined for me. In fact, when cB was upgraded (Friday?) the spoiler tags were not working. There was someone (Rachel, I think) that was upset that she came across spoilers. I made it a point to cover them. Obviously I had read them to do so. There's no personal vendetta here. No offense, but outside this site I don't give Kryo a single thought. I have much more important things to worry about than a member of an online forum, especially to the point of having any type of vendetta against them.

Except I didn't post any spoilers. And the no vendetta thing is funny when you look at my warn history. The only other person other than you and brownsugar that have warned me was HakunaMatata and she even reduced my warning level afterwards and apologized for her mistake.


If it is true that only a handful of the staff has a problem with me and the rest really don't (evidence being the lack of activity against me by them), then I suppose I should listen to SayBloodyMary and apologize for addressing my complaints to the mods collectively. However, if all of you guys really do have a problem (understandable since a good number of members have told me they have a problem with the staff but choose not to publicly complain for fear of persecution, so it probably goes both ways), then the status quo remains.

Actually, I don't believe you have a ongoing vendetta against me. However, I do think that your personal interest did play a part in the punishment. However, I'm not as interested in intent (something I've been saying for quite a while now, yet people just don't seem to understand this) as I am interested in the validity of the punishment. You can attempt to justify and make excuses for a mistake, but at the end of the day it is still a mistake and you guys should own up to it.

The rest will be addressed later since I don't want to bring this thread off topic.

What I said was that there is no point in forcing an apology, because it is meaningless unless the person means it (except more eloquently than that when my brain works properly).

So do the people involved still believe that they were not mistaken? And it's a pain in the ass to lose official member status, so while you have nothing to lose by not apologizing, my posting ability is gimped.

Who are these "people"? And why hasn't anyone but Kryo James spoken up if their issues are genuine?

See above where I mention being afraid to complain publicly.

Anyway. AGAIN, what do you think we are going to accomplish by rehashing the argument about the spoiler debacle? That someone will eventually cave? IT. IS. DONE. WITH.

Clearly, we all think we're right. That is shocking, appaling, and so on and so forth. However, as we can't change it, and nothing new is being brought to the table regarding this specific incident, meaning that we aren't getting anything from it anymore, why don't we all just shake hands and say 'I don't like you, but I'm over it?'

Will it help if I say please?

It won't end until the mods are either held responsible for their mistakes, or prove that I did post spoilers. The former sounds like the most plausible ending.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

Okay...Trust me, we do take suggestions seriously. We are constantly trying to improve. The community sends mixed signals.

moderator performance is a great example.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

we've talked about this before. shall i recall the convo?

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

we've talked about this before. shall i recall the convo?

[*davinci*]

See above where I mention being afraid to complain publicly.

But Spencer mentioned Suzzette's name. Were you referring to just her or the staff as a whole? Suzzette has always been a vocal advocate of reading criticism and taking it seriously without responding as to not be accused of jumping down their throats. As for the staff, well, some like to respond. I suppose it all depends on the genuity of the criticism.

The ONLY people I've heard actual criticism from of late is Kryo and tripvertigo.

[*tripvertigo*]

*sensible

Again, that's fine. However, he was causing upset, which, while it doesn't violate a specific rule, caused whoever warned him to act for what they perceived to be the greater good. If there is disagreement about that course of action (and I think we've established that there is), that is unfortunate. However, unless someone can propose a solution which means that no judgement will have to be excercised in these situations, these things will happen.

And I can't imagine anyone is upset now. That would be why action was taken then, and not today. However, if someone can say 'what a dick move,' and move on about some things, why not others?

i believe i have suggested a solution to this in the past. moderators shouldnt have the burden of having to exercise their "better judgement" in contreversial incidents like this when clearly their judgement may not always be right.

In situations like these, they should HAVE to consult with an administrator or headstaff so that the accountability is on higher-managements shoulders.

This makes the enforcement of REAL rules more consistant.


What I get from this topic is that when members do something wrong, or I should say when A member does something wrong (because apparently not every situation is handled in the same objective manner that it should be), they are punished to the extent of someones better judgement, which may (at most times) be total bullshit.

However, when a mod or group of mods does something wrong, nothing is done. And to avoid the situation, they close the topics that might implicate them.


And if you are going to say that he was warned for upsetting a large group of people or causing a ruckus, then I have to refer to a particular incident involving myself and certain untrue rumors that went on for weeks with absolutely no action from the moderating staff. Now more than half of this community thinks im totally schizophrenic, and in terms of what would actually happen in real life? I could sue jusun for something like deformation of character not because he LED this crusade against me, but because his staff chose not to do anything. But I guess there must be some vague selection process that the mods use to either ignore a situation and let it go for amusement purposes or to act way too brashly just because they may not like a certain person (lets say, james).


And PS:

I let your ironic mispelling of the word "illiterate" go. Have the courtesy to let mine.

[*shotgunFUNERAL*]

nah, i'll let it go since you don't want it here.

[*kryogenix*]

But Spencer mentioned Suzzette's name. Were you referring to just her or the staff as a whole? Suzzette has always been a vocal advocate of reading criticism and taking it seriously without responding as to not be accused of jumping down their throats. As for the staff, well, some like to respond. I suppose it all depends on the genuity of the criticism.

The ONLY people I've heard actual criticism from of late is Kryo and tripvertigo.

Wow. Just wow. I don't know how many times I've been told to stop criticizing them, even to the point of being threatened with warnings. She's even resorted to lying to avoid taking responsibility for things.

And you clearly didn't read what I wrote above. I said a lot of people do have problems but don't want to complain publicly because they're afraid of the repercussions.

To keep things on topic, can someone please state the official reason why I was punished and why there has yet to be an apology?

[*SayBloodyMary*]

i believe i have suggested a solution to this in the past. moderators shouldnt have the burden of having to exercise their "better judgement" in contreversial incidents like this when clearly their judgement may not always be right.

In situations like these, they should HAVE to consult with an administrator or headstaff so that the accountability is on higher-managements shoulders.

This makes the enforcement of REAL rules more consistant.
What I get from this topic is that when members do something wrong, or I should say when A member does something wrong (because apparently not every situation is handled in the same objective manner that it should be), they are punished to the extent of someones better judgement, which may (at most times) be total bullshit.

However, when a mod or group of mods does something wrong, nothing is done. And to avoid the situation, they close the topics that might implicate them.
And if you are going to say that he was warned for upsetting a large group of people or causing a ruckus, then I have to refer to a particular incident involving myself and certain untrue rumors that went on for weeks with absolutely no action from the moderating staff. Now more than half of this community thinks im totally schizophrenic, and in terms of what would actually happen in real life? I could sue jusun for something like deformation of character not because he LED this crusade against me, but because his staff chose not to do anything. But I guess there must be some vague selection process that the mods use to either ignore a situation and let it go for amusement purposes or to act way too brashly just because they may not like a certain person (lets say, james).
And PS:

I let your ironic mispelling of the word "illiterate" go. Have the courtesy to let mine.

That doesn't reduce the amount of judgement used, it just means that a different person is using their judgement instead. Plus, if mods did have to report to admins before acting, I would give it an hour before we started hearing 'tattletales,' or 'Hitler Youth' started coming out. It's swapping one set of disatisfaction for another.

And while I appreciate the idea that 'real' rules ought to be more consistant, what has to be kept in mind is that most of the violations here aren't based on tangible, steadfast foundations. I mean, spamming to someone is harmless to another, and the same with bashing, or with controversy. I think it is better that people act, and then mistakes get made from time to time, and then dealt with, rather than every little thing be queued up for a big discussion beforehand, so that by the time action is taken, it is in the past and no one cares anyway, but will still complain if it doesn't go that way. A mod 'getting' something wrong doesn't necessarily equate to a mod 'doing' something wrong, if you understand what I mean.

Oh, and I don't mind if you correct me, so go for it. Although I should point out that, as a rule, my typing sucks, not my spelling. How tiresome that it should happen to be 'illiterate,' though. Truly, the Irony Fairy frolics... Oh, and you would presumably be suing Jusun for defamation of character.

--

James, the fact that only Rebs and Suzzette have warned you (well, and Kaycee, but like you said, that was resolved) doesn't prove that they have a vendetta against you, that is really something of an extrapolation. In fact, given that you take into account the fear that some members supposedly have of persecution for criticising staff, I think you should perhaps consider the other side of the coin, before resorting to bias as a logical explanation. Personally, I think that either set of fears are ill-founded and childish, but there you go.

Oh, and having just reread your post, I realize you were saying that you didn't personally believe in a vendetta, but still, it will serve as a response to something along the line, I'm sure, so my bad for not reading.

And actually, I'd forgotten that you're warn level actually affected you're Member title, so technically, you're right about having ore to lose (or, I suppose, gain depending on whatever it is we're looking at exactly). Although, given that they haven't said so, and indeed in Rebecca's case have specifically said otherwise, I would imagine that they do not intend to change their minds. The official reason for no apology (such as it is) being that they aren't sorry. But this really is a battle of interpretation (and YES, I know that yours is the only valid one from your vantage point [or, as I'm sure you'll say, from any, but that REALLY is a losing battle for all parties]), and I'm not sure that it can be one, so please, as a personal appeal for the sake of my sanity, would you consider letting it go?

[*kryogenix*]

Alright, I'll call for another clarification:

Where is the problem that is preventing them from admitting they were wrong? Do they still believe I posted spoilers even though it's been shown that I didn't post them?

No, I won't consider letting it go because I feel I'm right, nor do I have anything to lose. This aversion to justifying the actions of the accused only serves to fuel my suspicions as correct. The only ways to end this is:

1) Prove that I didn't post spoilers
2) Change the explanation for the warning to "being misleading" and then proceed to punish those who have been misleading
3) Admit that they were wrong

We know #1 can't happen. #2 is sorta happening now except they don't seem to want to explain the shaky criteria for this and aren't explaining the double standard. #3 is what I'm asking for but you say won't happen.

Or is there a 4: Mods know they are wrong but will refuse to admit it because they are too arrogant to admit they are wrong?