Why The Iraqi war will be remembered as a brilliant strategical decision., A mental exercise. Options

[sadolakced acid]

Of late it has become popular, almost fashionable, to criticize the Iraqi war. However; facts are facts, and if you look at the facts of the Iraqi war do point to the fact that it is a brilliant strategical decision, if only slightly unpopular.

So, let us look at the facts.

1. Saddam was both developing WMDs as well as storing WMDs from before the first gulf war. The United States cannot allow any of the axis of evil to aquire WMDs, and it is in our strategic interests to make a show of force and stop Saddam's defiance of UN regulations. By making an example out of Saddam, we show enemies of America that we mean business and there are consequences for defying the law.

2. Wars stimulate the economy. They mobilize the defense industry that employs millions of Americas. This is an industry that has resisted outsourcing, and injects funds into the economy. While the economy appears to be doing badly, it is a result of Clinton's policies, and the war has actually significantly lessened the severity of the recession.

3. Islam is now fractured. The sunni and shia sects are now warring, and countries now contain many different groups each vying for power. In Iran, many students inspired by the democracy in Iraq campaign for democracy.

4. The country has been unified. The war has brought Americans together. We are all unified in the war on terror, and petty issues like gay marriage don't matter much anymore. Americans now enjoy a level of security where terrorism isn't their greatest fear anymore.

[*kryogenix*]

Clever girl.

I will watch this topic.

[*karmakiller*]

I don't usually like replying in war related topics, but that aside...

There was a possiblity of WMDs in Iraq, but we didn't find any and the search for WMDs ended two years ago so people who used that to justify the reason for being at war don't have that crutch to lean on anymore.

I think it's fair to say that it's common knowledge that during wartime more people are needed for jobs. They fill in for the people in reserves who have been called to duty and also needed to help manufacture goods that support the war effort.

Personally, I agree with people who say that they are going to have their own civil war, regardless of if we're there or not. We had ours and it made us better (for the most part).

[anilfour7]

2. Wars stimulate the economy. They mobilize the defense industry that employs millions of Americas. This is an industry that has resisted outsourcing, and injects funds into the economy. While the economy appears to be doing badly, it is a result of Clinton's policies, and the war has actually significantly lessened the severity of the recession.

I also believe the Iraq War was a well-played move, however; out of all the reasons you listed only one will be remembered, the economic factor.

Here is why it was a tact decision made by the Bush Administration:
(1) By awarding no-bid contracts to US contractors to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure (damages in excess of $7 trillion dollars), the Bush Administration effectively pumped capital into the private sector which created jobs locally as well as internationally.

(2) The United States, in order to feed our massive energy hunger, had to preserve US hedgemony in the region. In the last two decades, the United States has preserved their hedgemony and soft power world-wide through economic means (veto power at the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank). By imposing economic sanctions, rarely any country outside of the G8 would refuse the United States. However, despite the number of economic sanctions imposed on Hussein's regime, he simply would not crumble. Thus, in order to preserve hedgemony in the region, the United States had to exercise it's military might.

Thus, the Iraq War has secured our energy supply for the next decade or so, which is more than enough time to find alternate means to feed our energy needs.

[*steve330*]

Of late it has become popular, almost fashionable, to criticize the Iraqi war.
..........................
4. The country has been unified. The war has brought Americans together. We are all unified in the war on terror, and petty issues like gay marriage don't matter much anymore. Americans now enjoy a level of security where terrorism isn't their greatest fear anymore.

It has become popular to criticie it due to the involvement of the media. I would also wager to say that it has not unified the country as you claim. If it had then the United States would be ignoring Al Gore's insensible rants.

The media used to back up wars and pain the enemy as an enemy, instead of painting our troups as the enemies. That, of course, started in Vietnam.

Anyways, I'm a supporter of the war. I think it could have been handled better, but I still think we should have gone in. Also I don't believe we should be trying to appease everyone and their dad and we shouldn't care if we embarass them. They take videos of them cutting off the heads of our troops, and our troops get courtmarshalled for putting womens underwear on them. wtf?

Anyways, more response later, class in 5 mins.

[*The Markster*]

I am total noob at this war stuff, but looking at the stuff you listed .. cleverrrr.

What's a WMD?

[fathomlessdame]

But why are our troops still there?

[kimmytree]

Of late it has become popular, almost fashionable, to criticize the Iraqi war. However; facts are facts, and if you look at the facts of the Iraqi war do point to the fact that it is a brilliant strategical decision, if only slightly unpopular.

So it's fashionable to question the decisions your country is making? It's more like being concerned.

1. Saddam was both developing WMDs as well as storing WMDs from before the first gulf war. The United States cannot allow any of the axis of evil to aquire WMDs, and it is in our strategic interests to make a show of force and stop Saddam's defiance of UN regulations. By making an example out of Saddam, we show enemies of America that we mean business and there are consequences for defying the law.

Yeah, him and a bunch of other countries too. It's not like they were the only "evil" country who had them at the time. Why were these weapons never found? Before we entered the war, the UN held inspections... and before we even gave them time to freaking finish, we declared war. How does "making an example out of Saddam" justify the death of over 3500 soilders? And over 25000 being wounded? And what about the thousands of civilians? Cmon, making an example out of him is a crappy excuse.

2. Wars stimulate the economy. They mobilize the defense industry that employs millions of Americas. This is an industry that has resisted outsourcing, and injects funds into the economy. While the economy appears to be doing badly, it is a result of Clinton's policies, and the war has actually significantly lessened the severity of the recession.

Financial gain, no matter how much, isnt worth the sacrifice our soilders have made.

4. The country has been unified. The war has brought Americans together. We are all unified in the war on terror, and petty issues like gay marriage don't matter much anymore. Americans now enjoy a level of security where terrorism isn't their greatest fear anymore.

Unified? More like ripped in half. Here lately a majority of our country is AGAINST what's going on over there. Yeah, we all support the troops, but that doesnt mean we stand together on the issue. Who freaking cares about the petty issues? Having to listen to them isnt going to hurt you dear. And how have we protected ourselves from terrorism through Iraq? I think the added protection has been from things we've done at home, not over there.

[kimmytree]

Here is why it was a tact decision made by the Bush Administration:
(1) By awarding no-bid contracts to US contractors to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure (damages in excess of $7 trillion dollars), the Bush Administration effectively pumped capital into the private sector which created jobs locally as well as internationally.

Hahah. You know one of those companies was Halliburton, right? Cheney still has close ties with them, that's why there were no-bid contracts.

More like dangerous international jobs. Alot of the contractors who have gone over there never make it back home, or end up injured.

[*karmakiller*]

I am total noob at this war stuff, but looking at the stuff you listed .. cleverrrr.

What's a WMD?

Weapons of Mass Destruction.

But why are our troops still there?

Because Iraq's violations of the UN? To liberate the innocent people that are dying everyday? To help Iraqis create/keep/run their own government? Because of Iraq's al qaeda links? -shrugs-

[anilfour7]

Hahah. You know one of those companies was Halliburton, right? Cheney still has close ties with them, that's why there were no-bid contracts.

More like dangerous international jobs. Alot of the contractors who have gone over there never make it back home, or end up injured.

You know more than a hundred US companies were awarded no-bid contracts right?

Now, lets pick out the one with the most connections to the administration and pretend like it was all 'premeditated' war-profiteering.

[kimmytree]

^ But Haliburton was obviously one of the largest companies involved.

No - I'm not saying we went to war just for Haliburton or any other company. Just after getting involved, we just gave them the no-bid contract. Even without Haliburton in the picture, that still sounds a little suspicious. But with Cheney having such close ties with Haliburton, it should be obvious why we gave them the contract.

[xKatt]

4. The country has been unified. The war has brought Americans together. We are all unified in the war on terror, and petty issues like gay marriage don't matter much anymore. Americans now enjoy a level of security where terrorism isn't their greatest fear anymore.

You've got to be kidding me. If anything, our country has been split and over something that was none of our business to begin with. I don't believe we should've gone to war with Iraq and I know several people who agree and several who disagree. Unity my ass.

And since when was gay marriage a petty issue? And since when has it not mattered much anymore? It would matter just the same as it does now with or without the war in Iraq. If anything, the putting aside of the issue would be a negative impact of the conflict in Iraq.

AL-QUAEDA BOMBED US. IRAQ DID NOT BOMB US, SO WHY ARE WE THERE?

George W. Bush's acceptance rate has been plummeting and those supporting the "war on terror" are slowly backing down from their positions because we aren't preventing terror; we're creating terror. And only after the damage is done do those who supported Bush realise it. We've created the civil wars in Iraq and we've created a hatred of Americans in their country.

A brilliant strategical decision? There's a reason why you said 'a mental exercise' because that's all this is. People having to try hard to make reason of this prolonged war.

Nice topic though. I was just discussing this in my World Geography class today. It got pretty heated.

[*kryogenix*]

Ahahahaha this thread delivers.

[*MyMichelle*]

I thought this was a satire. Forgive me if I was wrong.

[sadolakced acid]

^ But Haliburton was obviously one of the largest companies involved.

No - I'm not saying we went to war just for Haliburton or any other company. Just after getting involved, we just gave them the no-bid contract. Even without Haliburton in the picture, that still sounds a little suspicious. But with Cheney having such close ties with Haliburton, it should be obvious why we gave them the contract.

When you have a multi-billion dollar task at hand, such as rebuilding a country, there are not many options.

Most construction companies are quite small, and cannot handle the logistics of rebuilding an entire country

Haliburton is one of the only construction companies that possesses the sort of capital (meaning things such as bulldozers and backhoes) and the labor in order to quickly mobilize to Iraq.

If the contracts were put through bidding, Haliburton would have won. Sure, it may have shaved a few billion dollars off of the cost of rebuilding, but it would have come at the cost of having to wait for bids to be drawn up, evaluated, and selected. And that would not be in the best interests of our country.

As far as your assertation that the country has not be unified, I believe I was mistaken. I meant to say that true Americans have been unified. Those that truly love American have come together to support the president and this war.

[kimmytree]

^ What the Hell? So if a person doesnt support their Presidents decisions, then they arent a true American? YOU'RE SICK.

[sadolakced acid]

And this is how it works.

We're at war. It's our duty to support our president, no matter what he does.

apparently, you're not a true American.

[*steve330*]

Apparently you're sick if you have a strong political opinion too.

I support Bush, but that doesn't mean I don't think things could have been handled better.

[sadolakced acid]

Look, ordinarily, criticism is all good. But we're at war. The president has to do what he has to do so the terrorists won't win. And Americans shouldn't criticism him for that. Because the terrorists will win.

[*steve330*]

^I think I agree with what you're saying lol..

If America pulls out of Iraq and just runs away from it, then the Terrorist will see that as a sign of weakness and won't be nearly as afraid of America anymore..

[kimmytree]

And this is how it works.

We're at war. It's our duty to support our president, no matter what he does.

apparently, you're not a true American.

Okay, picture this scenario. Gore wins the election in 2000. 9/11 still happens, but Gore does nothing. How would you react? I'm guessing you'd probably disagree with his decision to not do something (which is how I feel about Bush). So that would make you not a "true American" too, huh? No, it wouldnt. Just because you disagree with the president doesnt mean you're any less of an American than someone who supports him.

Was it wrong for German citizens during WW2 to disagree with Hitler? I'm not trying to compare him to anyone, but think about it.

[kimmytree]

^ Eeek sorry for the double post. I forgot that it wouldnt automatically continue from my last one.

^I think I agree with what you're saying lol..

If America pulls out of Iraq and just runs away from it, then the Terrorist will see that as a sign of weakness and won't be nearly as afraid of America anymore..

Thats true. But if we do stay, its not like this war is going to be over anytime soon. These people are never going to stop fighting - they've been fighting over religion for hundreds of years. I still cant believe we think we can just run in and make them kiss and make up. And as far as the terrorists go, we've just opened up a can of worms. Chances are, things are never going to get better. So whether we get out now or ten years from now, we're still going to lose. And the longer we stay, the more money wasted... and the more lives that are going to be lost, which is and will be our biggest loss.

Wth, they were never afraid of America to begin with.

[illriginal]

Of late it has become popular, almost fashionable, to criticize the Iraqi war. However; facts are facts, and if you look at the facts of the Iraqi war do point to the fact that it is a brilliant strategical decision, if only slightly unpopular.

So, let us look at the facts.

1. Saddam was both developing WMDs as well as storing WMDs from before the first gulf war. The United States cannot allow any of the axis of evil to aquire WMDs, and it is in our strategic interests to make a show of force and stop Saddam's defiance of UN regulations. By making an example out of Saddam, we show enemies of America that we mean business and there are consequences for defying the law.

2. Wars stimulate the economy. They mobilize the defense industry that employs millions of Americas. This is an industry that has resisted outsourcing, and injects funds into the economy. While the economy appears to be doing badly, it is a result of Clinton's policies, and the war has actually significantly lessened the severity of the recession.

3. Islam is now fractured. The sunni and shia sects are now warring, and countries now contain many different groups each vying for power. In Iran, many students inspired by the democracy in Iraq campaign for democracy.

4. The country has been unified. The war has brought Americans together. We are all unified in the war on terror, and petty issues like gay marriage don't matter much anymore. Americans now enjoy a level of security where terrorism isn't their greatest fear anymore.

1. Please source the idea that Suddam was developing WMD. The fact is, we sold them those WMD and Bush used those old WMD as a reason to go into Iraq and forget all about Bin Laden. I forgot to mention that Bin Laden was a CIA Tactician.

2. Can you show me proof that this war in fact overall boosted the economy for all classes in American? The only people getting rich here are the politicians and the people who invest money in stocks... definitely not the workers.

3. Islam isn't fractured, if you knew your history about Islam, both "sects" have always disliked each other, because of differences in their view of Islam.
What students are inspired by the imperialism? I mean Democracy? Anyone with half a brain would realize what exactly is going on in the Middle East. If you want to call Imperialism Democracy, that's fine... just make it clear that our democracy doesn't work for all nations. I'm sure you've heard/read, "what works for you, may not work for me".

4. The U.S. has been unified?! LOL Are you kidding? What through racism/hatred? Ok you're right there... but politically and patriotically speaking, I call bullshit... x10000000. There is no terror, there never was any foreign terror against the U.S. The War On Terror is as laughable as The War On Drugs. It's all a facade... it's all a false sense of security. Like I said anyone with half of a brain would realize this.

Gay marriage is still some-what serious, thus is why many states are against it to begin with. But who cares about that anyways? It's their souls, right?

I highly advise you to do some of your own research, learn where all these politicians come from, all the government officials, what "Home Land Security" has been up to. Hell Home Land Security is so pathetic and so easy to figure out it's just sickening that anyone could honestly believe that it does anything other than infringe upon our freedoms/privacy.

The director (I believe is his position) of Home Land Security is so crooked that he put 3 border patrols in federal prison for God sakes just because they did their jobs. Because the little card that the mexican drug dealer had (which was given to him by the director of home land security) which would basically give him a free pass to go in and back out of the U.S. as he freely desires, whenever he wantet, didn't fly with the border patrols... especially when the Mexican drug dealer had a multitude of pounds of marijuana in his truck.


Poor little girly, your false sense of security, the one you claim is so great that we don't have nothing to worry about is gonna give you one hell of a brutal awakening.

[illriginal]

Look, ordinarily, criticism is all good. But we're at war. The president has to do what he has to do so the terrorists won't win. And Americans shouldn't criticism him for that. Because the terrorists will win.

LOL You... nevermind. May God open your eyes child, you're one lost human being.

[kimmytree]

^ LOL I'm starting to think he's being sarcastic... and maybe trying to stimulate a discussion? I've seen him around, and he actually sounds half way intelligent most of the time.

[illriginal]

^ LOL I'm starting to think he's being sarcastic... and maybe trying to stimulate a discussion? I've seen him around, and he actually sounds half way intelligent most of the time.

Heh... if you're speakin of me, yeah I tend to be a little too cocky and then become condescending when I realize I already won the debate. My condescending of course makes others feel as if I'm just a ish talker and only look forward to start problems. Meh... what can I say, I have an audacious arrogance with great pride in my intellect.

[medic]

LOL You... nevermind. May God open your eyes child, you're one lost human being.

May god open yours, your signature shows that you need a HUGE awakening.

Also to those who questions Saddam had the ability to make and or use WMD's....

He used chemical weapons on innocent civilians in a neighboring country.

[kimmytree]

Heh... if you're speakin of me, yeah I tend to be a little too cocky and then become condescending when I realize I already won the debate. My condescending of course makes others feel as if I'm just a ish talker and only look forward to start problems. Meh... what can I say, I have an audacious arrogance with great pride in my intellect.

Ahhh not you, the person who started the topic.

[xKatt]

After reading the past few posts, I've come to the conclusion that sadolakced acid is being sarcastic to show that the views supporting the Iraqi war are completely ludicrous and unreasonable.

[illriginal]

May god open yours, your signature shows that you need a HUGE awakening.

Also to those who questions Saddam had the ability to make and or use WMD's....

He used chemical weapons on innocent civilians in a neighboring country.

Oh cry me a river... Bin Laden is most likely chillin in the pent house of the White House or at least in Malibu.

Suddam is dead... and Iran wants nothing to do with the U.S. but the U.S. as usual, has to bully the nations around.

Thus is why we're are the most hated nation in the world. Part of it has to do with jealousy towards our way of life.. but most of it is because of our pride, arrogance, ignorance, hatred/racism, and causing terrorism around the world.

And I need a HUGE awakening? LOL Oh please, please enlighten me lil soldier boy. Let see if you're more than just a gutsy JUG head.
I'm sure highschool might have taught you somethin important. Oh wait, we're in America... one of the countries with the lowest standards in education.

Oh wait I forgot to mention... about using the WMD on civilians. Yes casualties happens during war. Hint hint "USSR"

Anyone here can make a claim and get people to believe them without any proof without any witnesses and that's how the brain washing begins. I'm not a simple minded drone, no disrespect of course. I don't live in a mental jail cell.

[illriginal]

After reading the past few posts, I've come to the conclusion that sadolakced acid is being sarcastic to show that the views supporting the Iraqi war are completely ludicrous and unreasonable.

Yeh I had to finally assume that the OP was being sarcastic... no way was that a realistic argument/thought.

[kimmytree]

Oh cry me a river... Bin Laden is most likely chillin in the pent house of the White House or at least in Malibu.

Suddam is dead... and Iran wants nothing to do with the U.S. but the U.S. as usual, has to bully the nations around.

Thus is why we're are the most hated nation in the world. Part of it has to do with jealousy towards our way of life.. but most of it is because of our pride, arrogance, ignorance, hatred/racism, and causing terrorism around the world.

And I need a HUGE awakening? LOL Oh please, please enlighten me lil soldier boy. Let see if you're more than just a gutsy JUG head.
I'm sure highschool might have taught you somethin important. Oh wait, we're in America... one of the countries with the lowest standards in education.

Oh wait I forgot to mention... about using the WMD on civilians. Yes casualties happens during war. Hint hint "USSR"

Anyone here can make a claim and get people to believe them without any proof without any witnesses and that's how the brain washing begins. I'm not a simple minded drone, no disrespect of course. I don't live in a mental jail cell.

My God, its SADDAM, not "Suddam".
Sorry, I just had to say something.

Don't you think you're going a little overboard by calling someone a jug head? Sure, I disagree with him too, but there's no sense in name calling. Everyone's entitled to their own views.

But to actually make this post worthwhile - I dont think the rest of the world is "jealous" of us. They hate us because we're one of the richest nations in the world, and we fail to make a significant difference in the world (like signing the Kyoto Protocol, aids, etc). And then we think we can do whatever we want - boss other nations around, break international law, go against the UN, go to war with another country without having a legitimate reason, etc. I dont think most people hate US, they hate the people who are running the show. And then they cant believe how stupid we are to go along with it and re-elect Bush again.

My God, why did Gore have to lose the freaking election in 2000. WHY. Well actually, its more like why did Bush scam his way in. We probably wouldnt even be at war right now.

[*karmakiller*]

And I need a HUGE awakening? LOL Oh please, please enlighten me lil soldier boy. Let see if you're more than just a gutsy JUG head.
I'm sure highschool might have taught you somethin important. Oh wait, we're in America... one of the countries with the lowest standards in education.

You should really try to stay on topic and not make it a personal attack. Share your side of the debate and listen to what the other side has to say... say what you will about their point of view but try not to say negative things about the person saying it.

[illriginal]

My God, its SADDAM, not "Suddam".
Sorry, I just had to say something.

Don't you think you're going a little overboard by calling someone a jug head? Sure, I disagree with him too, but there's no sense in name calling. Everyone's entitled to their own views.

But to actually make this post worthwhile - I dont think the rest of the world is "jealous" of us. They hate us because we're one of the richest nations in the world, and we fail to make a significant difference in the world (like signing the Kyoto Protocol, aids, etc). And then we think we can do whatever we want - boss other nations around, break international law, go against the UN, go to war with another country without having a legitimate reason, etc. I dont think most people hate US, they hate the people who are running the show. And then they cant believe how stupid we are to go along with it and re-elect Bush again.

My God, why did Gore have to lose the freaking election in 2000. WHY. Well actually, its more like why did Bush scam his way in. We probably wouldnt even be at war right now.

Ah Arabic translation is Suddam... not Saddam. I don't really like to Americanize the authenticities of things.

But JUG Head is not a form of disrespect. That is what they're called because of their helmets.

The only true personal attack I made was about the American education and it's low standards. As to why I made the personal attacks, he mades claims that I fabricated a theory. There is no theory about that, from all the evidence I have came across, I finalized a conclusion of my own. Which I gave in a very basic and scenario-like explanation. If I wanted to get really serious with this debate though, I would have to upload about a book's worth of pages full of well informed details and evidence proving that the strategy our military took, and will most likely take. And why we went to Afghanistan, Iraq, and soon Iran.

[*MyMichelle*]

Ahahahaha this thread delivers.

[*karmakiller*]

But JUG Head is not a form of disrespect. That is what they're called because of their helmets.

I always thought it was just Jar head. I've never heard them called jug head's before.

[/end spam]

[*ersatz*]

What's funnier than you guys thinking he was serious was you guys thinking he was a girl.