Do people who commit suicide go to heaven?, For the Catholics and stuff, I guess. Options

[*The Markster*]

Forgive me if this is a pretty stupid question, but do people who commit suicide go to heaven? I see how it can be wrong to kill your own self, a creation of God, but doesn't God want us all to be happy? I think .. I wanna know what you guys think.

(Btw, how do I make this into a poll ..)

[xKatt]

Well, according to Christians, God gave you life and by destroying it, you're kind of spitting on his face. And if I were God and I made you and you killed yourself, I wouldn't let you set foot in heaven because clearly you haven't earned it!

But of course I'm not God, nor am I a Christian, so I really don't have a completely valid input on this.

Oh yeah and if God wanted you to be happy, why would he condemn homosexuality? Worshipping a different god? Having sex before marriage?

All of these things could bring you happiness, but they're sins. So does God really want you to be happy?

And being miserable enough to commit suicide doesn't seem to fit the definition of happiness. You're going from misery to nothingness. Where does happiness come into the equation?

[trulyandnever]

^ agree with all 100%.
also, isnt suicide a bit selfish?
i'd have no idea if being selfish is a sin though..
think about it, uh hhuuuh.

[*alovesopure*]

also, isnt suicide a bit selfish?

Not if you're mentally unstable. My grandfather was Bi-polar, he committed suicide when I was 6 years old. I don't think it was selfish... Yeah, in some cases it could be, but I guess you have to know the whole story before you decide if it is or not.

Me being a christian, I honestly don't know. I guess it depends on the situation, like.. being mentally unstable, and I guess it depends on if the person is a christian before they die and all that.
But honestly, its just one of those things that I'm just unsure about.

[*kryogenix*]

No one knows.

[*MyMichelle*]

People have told me both. shrugs*

If you really want to know, read the Bible and find your own interpretation. That's the only way :T

[sadolakced acid]

I agree with you Mark, God does want us to be happy.

You can't make polls in debate. Sorry.

I believe that's my fault.

anyways; simple answer is no. as to why, well, i'd think it's pretty obvious.

[murderwaltz]

Well, according to Christians, God gave you life and by destroying it, you're kind of spitting on his face. And if I were God and I made you and you killed yourself, I wouldn't let you set foot in heaven because clearly you haven't earned it!

But of course I'm not God, nor am I a Christian, so I really don't have a completely valid input on this.

Oh yeah and if God wanted you to be happy, why would he condemn homosexuality? Worshipping a different god? Having sex before marriage?

All of these things could bring you happiness, but they're sins. So does God really want you to be happy?

And being miserable enough to commit suicide doesn't seem to fit the definition of happiness. You're going from misery to nothingness. Where does happiness come into the equation?

i agree with the christian theory. many say that you don't enter heaven if you commit suicide. now, i do believe God wants us to be happy but in a different way. Following the "correct" path can lead us to being happy for the rest of our lives. but in the end, who knows? if you commited suicide for a fair enough reason [any mental instability] then i don't think God would condemn you to hell but once again, who knows!

yeah i dont know. i always thought of asking him when i died. haha

[*steve330*]

Define heaven

[Simba]

Define heaven

Good question.

[*Moderator*]

It all depends on what your beliefs are. I say, it doesn't matter that you've done harm to yourself. If you have done rightful deeds or have come a long way from the start of your life--then you should reach paradise.

[x_curse_of_the_c...]

what is mental instability anyways? Like depression and anxiety disorders or are you refering to the extreme end of bipolar, sysphrenia (sp?), and multiple personality disorders?

I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and a social anxiety disorder and i contemplated suicide many many times. but i couldn't bare living in hell at least thats what i told myself.


- But now that im not suicidal anymore I believe in what Jane said above me.

[1angel3]

I believe the people that go to hell don't stay forever, I think so because people say God is a forgiving God. Well xKatt you say chritians believe if you kill yourself you don't deserve to set foot in heaven when its not like that, yeah you'll go to hell but you don't stay forever, I think a good example is you can do something wrong, your parents find out, and they put you on punishment. You don't stay on punishment forever. God see us as his children.


Thats a point of view from a christain.

[WHOngos144]

"You shall not kill." And by committing suicide, you're killing yourself. So the answer is no.

[Aerjae]

According to my faith, They don't go heaven. Murder is Murder and quote, thou shall not murder. I believe in what the Bible says.

[sadolakced acid]

I believe the people that go to hell don't stay forever, I think so because people say God is a forgiving God. Well xKatt you say chritians believe if you kill yourself you don't deserve to set foot in heaven when its not like that, yeah you'll go to hell but you don't stay forever, I think a good example is you can do something wrong, your parents find out, and they put you on punishment. You don't stay on punishment forever. God see us as his children.
Thats a point of view from a christain.

That's is simply a point of view.

As far as I'm aware, most of christianity proclaims that whatever happens after death is for eternity, as in, forever.

It's perfectly fine to believe this; it's just not what most christians believe.

[*steve330*]

This is why I like Deism, you don't have to worry about any of this shit.

[cori-catastrophe]

the only unforgivable(sp?) sin is blasphemy.
and to all the people who said it's murder, of course it is, but does that mean that all the saved murder-ers will go to hell? of course not. that's why jesus died, according to the christian beleifs. all sins are forgiven, exept for what was mentioned above.

[illriginal]

Hopefully... for being cowards.

[1angel3]

That's is simply a point of view.

As far as I'm aware, most of christianity proclaims that whatever happens after death is for eternity, as in, forever.

It's perfectly fine to believe this; it's just not what most christians believe.

Well, I believe God told us humans if you go to hell its for eternity so we won't sin as much. They say God is a forgiving God, if so why would he make you go for eternity? How forgiving. Thats why I believe that.

[Simba]

It's because the "Christian" "Hell" and "Heaven" are inaccurate.


Someone's going to bite me for not backing that up, right? I've talked about it quite a bit before, but I'll wait anyway.

[1angel3]

^^ well, you have people that don't believe in hell or heaven so who knows. I'm not going to call you stupid for your belief.

[illriginal]

It's because the "Christian" "Hell" and "Heaven" are inaccurate.
Someone's going to bite me for not backing that up, right? I've talked about it quite a bit before, but I'll wait anyway.

From my understanding. This is hell. Reincarnation is a form of infinity, am I wrong? Until our physical gets it right, then you can finally move onto heaven.
No more re-born into the physical realm where sin exists and physical/emotional pain exists.

But then I think about Islam's point of view, when you're judged you go to heaven or you go to hell, but hell isn't infinite, it's time based, and you get a proper punishment. Afterwards (how ever long you've been in hell) God the all merciful brings you back to heaven where you reside for ever.

[*Flair*]

For those who are sure about the answer to this question, how do you know?

[1angel3]

^^ We don't know really

[Kontroll]

Forgive me if this is a pretty stupid question, but do people who commit suicide go to heaven? I see how it can be wrong to kill your own self, a creation of God, but doesn't God want us all to be happy? I think .. I wanna know what you guys think.

(Btw, how do I make this into a poll ..)

Alright. Think about it like this. Is killing yourself a murder? Do murderers go to Heaven?

To God, every sin is equal except for blasphemy and homosexuality(I think) I'm a little rusty on my theology. But I know for sure blasphemy is the number one sin. In order to go to Heaven in the Christian faith you have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for you and forgave you of your sins. According to the Bible, you can never lose your salvation.

So, knowing that... what do you think happens to people after they commited suicide? It really depends on their status as a Christian or unsaved person. If murderers are allowed into heaven, then why can't some one who murdered themselves?

[*steve330*]

It's because the "Christian" "Hell" and "Heaven" are inaccurate.
Someone's going to bite me for not backing that up, right? I've talked about it quite a bit before, but I'll wait anyway.

Valhalla!

[Kontroll]

Well, according to Christians, God gave you life and by destroying it, you're kind of spitting on his face. And if I were God and I made you and you killed yourself, I wouldn't let you set foot in heaven because clearly you haven't earned it!

But of course I'm not God, nor am I a Christian, so I really don't have a completely valid input on this.

Oh yeah and if God wanted you to be happy, why would he condemn homosexuality? Worshipping a different god? Having sex before marriage?

All of these things could bring you happiness, but they're sins. So does God really want you to be happy?

And being miserable enough to commit suicide doesn't seem to fit the definition of happiness. You're going from misery to nothingness. Where does happiness come into the equation?

God is loving, but just. His ultimate goal is not happiness, but salvation. If you read in the Bible, the most faithful followers weren't exactly happy. They were tortured for their faith. It's not really about this life, but what comes afterwards. And if you give yourself to Him, then He will reward you for your dedication and hard work.

And I'm sorry to say that this point your making about happiness is ridiculous. According to Christianity, homosexuality is a sin, so is worshipping a different god, as well as fornication. But, sin only lasts for a season. Happiness is different for everyone. I find happiness in not thinking about myself all the time, because if you think about yourself all the time, you manage to pick out all your flaws, have a lack of respect for people, and so on.

It's because the "Christian" "Hell" and "Heaven" are inaccurate.
Someone's going to bite me for not backing that up, right? I've talked about it quite a bit before, but I'll wait anyway.

Yeah, I've heard that. If you look back at the original translations, it's something different right?

I know what you're talking about, but lets stay on the subject or else this will go on for ever.

This post has been edited by Arjuna Capulong: Jun 30 2007, 12:48 PM

[Simba]

Ok, I'm calling all of you out now; I think we all need another reminder:
Please don't double post, and edit when you have something to add.

(However, one exception to this would be if you posted again hours after your original post, which I've seen happen only once here.)



By the way, you're right Jake. It's been brought up several times back here too, but it never goes all the way through.

[Kontroll]

I apologize for the double post. I was hoping it would go to the same post, but too much time had past. Again, I apologize.

[xburnoutx00]

Forgive me if this is a pretty stupid question, but do people who commit suicide go to heaven? I see how it can be wrong to kill your own self, a creation of God, but doesn't God want us all to be happy? I think .. I wanna know what you guys think.

(Btw, how do I make this into a poll ..)

Does that make it wrong to pick flowers / cut down trees?
I don't believe in heaven or hell - but honestly, if killing yourself is a sin because you're a creation of God, then so should picking flowers. It just doesn't make sense.

I do think that suicide is selfish. That isn't really the topic though.

[laxumaster8]

it really depends on your religion

[*Elba*]

There is no heaven.

[Kontroll]

Haha. Why do people post topics that can never truely be answered unless you go to the source? I don't get it. Look it up for yourself. It's there.

[xburnoutx00]

The point of the thread is to post your opinion about something.

[kimmytree]

I dont believe in a Heaven or a Hell... I dont think God would punish someone in an eternal Hell for not believing in him, or for committing suicide. Or for any other sin. I think it's extremely selfish to kill yourself... it almost kills the people you leave behind.

I think everyone is entitled to Heaven... whether they're a murderer, committed suicide, or whatever. But I think they'll still have to answer to God for what they did.

I'm Agnostic, btw.

[dannyordinary]

I think they go to hell.
It is spitting in the face of god
and very selfish and cowardly.

[demolished]

... but killing yourself is happiness, isnt?
You're erasing your existence, pain, emotions, and set yourself free, not dealing anymore reality.

[Kontroll]

The point of the thread is to post your opinion about something.

Then why the hell is it in the debate section? Opinion is not enough for debate.

[Kontroll]

... but killing yourself is happiness, isnt?
You're erasing your existence, pain, emotions, and set yourself free, not dealing anymore reality.

Yes, but it's selfishness at it's greatest. I think people get depression mixed up with sadness alot.

You're basically playing the role of God when you kill yourself. He's the only one with the key to life and you're stealing that from Him when you do such a thing.

If you want to believe in that. If you don't...go kill yourself.

[*steve330*]

The point of the thread is to post your opinion about something.

Yeah, but typically in a debate you back up your opinion with facts, and know what the other side would say in response and have a counterargument to their counter.

[xKatt]

Does that make it wrong to pick flowers / cut down trees?
I don't believe in heaven or hell - but honestly, if killing yourself is a sin because you're a creation of God, then so should picking flowers. It just doesn't make sense.

I do think that suicide is selfish. That isn't really the topic though.

Well God created the garden of Eden and told Adam and Eve that they could eat the fruits of every tree (except one), so I guess He didn't mind that they were tearing His creations off their limbs and devouring them.

It's an interesting point though. You're right... wouldn't destroying the world's air, water and land be considered in the same ballpark as destroying one of God's creations (namely yourself)? Would that mean that all the people responsible for the Danube cyanide spill are going to hell? The people involved in the nuclear testing at Bikini Atoll? The people involved in the shrinking of the Aral Sea? Something to think about.

[mysticalazxn]

No one can decide. Only god.
But if I was to think then i think they will not go to heaven. One of the ten commandment is to repsect other and yourself.

[Peanups]

First off, I am not Catholic, I am a Christian so here I go;

In believing in God and trully commiting yourself to him, His Holy Spirit is suppose to enter you. You are suppose to be inhabited by the Holy Spirit, and naturally our life should start to change because we will WANT it to. I am not saying that it won't be hard like giving up maybe drugs, or whatever other thing that you may be obsessing over (maybe even a television show) but we are suppose to feel convicted about doing things wrongs.

WE DONT HAVE TO GET RID OFF THEM

but when the Holy Spirit comes, we want to!

In commiting suicide, there are some points to consider in why that person did.
Obviously it is making a mockery out of God and abusing his creation, OURSELVES



Yes, they go to Hell.

Question to ponder then:
what if they had confessed that Jesus is Lord and recieved Him and all that stuff. I believe that salvation is a eternal thing and you can never lose it. If you do, you were never trully a believer, so if you commited suicide, then you never really accepted and believed in God.

It's not fair some may say,

well it's not fair how we all spit in God's face everyday and abuse all of the glorious gifts He has given us.

I believe the people that go to hell don't stay forever, I think so because people say God is a forgiving God. Well xKatt you say chritians believe if you kill yourself you don't deserve to set foot in heaven when its not like that, yeah you'll go to hell but you don't stay forever, I think a good example is you can do something wrong, your parents find out, and they put you on punishment. You don't stay on punishment forever. God see us as his children.
Thats a point of view from a christain.

No, it's not a view from a christian, that is more like a view point of a Mormon, they believe that Hell is not eternal damnation.

Well God created the garden of Eden and told Adam and Eve that they could eat the fruits of every tree (except one), so I guess He didn't mind that they were tearing His creations off their limbs and devouring them.

It's an interesting point though. You're right... wouldn't destroying the world's air, water and land be considered in the same ballpark as destroying one of God's creations (namely yourself)? Would that mean that all the people responsible for the Danube cyanide spill are going to hell? The people involved in the nuclear testing at Bikini Atoll? The people involved in the shrinking of the Aral Sea? Something to think about.

I think you're taking this totally out of context.
God NEVER said don't kill plants and trees, if we look in the Bible it says:
"Do not murder" And it is easy enough to say that it is in context with harming another HUMAN BEING ON PURPOSE.

Though I do believe war is excluded from what murder is, because you are either protecting your country, someone elses, or you are trying to conquer land. Though I do have to say it does deal with the motive of the heart, so that could be a whole different discussion.

ALSO::
YES- that means that if you hate someone in your heart, even NOT to lengths of MURDER you are guilty of actually MURDERING someone.

[*Sandraaa*]

It's been bla bla all along. How can you know if it's a sin or not? You have to commit suicide first; if you see a red man, that means it's a sin, if you seen the light that means it isn't a sin.

Stupidity apart, you can never know.

Yes, they go to Hell.

God told you so?

[xKatt]

Here's the answer to your question. It's from www.christianforums.com

Originally Posted by Neenie
It angers me how hypocritical some you fundamentalists really are. I can't believe you people use lies to incite fear into the most struggling of Christians. There is nothing in the bible that says a suicide will go to hell, absolutely nothing! Yet, many religious fundamentalists make up filthy lies as a way of somehow 'preventing' people.

Drop the fear tactics and start telling the truth!!!

Answer me this. If committing suicide is not against Christ, and by doing so you can go to Heaven right this second, what on earth is stopping you?
I mean, if killing myself is a ticket to Heaven, then I assure you with no doubts whatsoever I would off myself right this second, why on earth stay another second on this planet, so Satan can continue to tempt me ?
You do error in saying it is not evil to commit suicide, tell me this, where in Scriptures does it say you can ? It doesn't, and you're right it doesn't say you can't either, but here is the Truth, what is the condition of the heart of a person who commits suicide, is that condition one of Christ or one of SELF. that is where this sin is.
Again, answer me this Question: What is the condition of the heart of the person who commits suicide ? Are they full of joy because they have Christ in there life, or are they full of sadness and despair because of the circumstances they are in ? If they have Christ in their hearts, they would in fact have joy, even in the midst of there tribulations, throughout the entire Bible, there are many examples of people who are persecuted yet still have the joy of Christ in them, no matter what there circumstances.
At the end of a persons life, their heart, is what will be judged, whether that heart is of Christ or is full of self. A person who commits suicide, no longer deems fit to live life any longer, and does not turn to Christ, but turns to DEATH as an answer to what they are going through, and in this, it is an ungodly act, therefore sinful.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=32230173

[*Sandraaa*]

Speculations. Did God actually tell them so?

[*Michelle*]

*laughs and points at all the Christians who fight over this*

[weed]

Well they either get cremated or burried 6 feet under the ground.

As for their souls. No one REALLY knows because no one has DIED and came back to life after a couple weeks ("jesus") yes ok fine but what if you dont believe in the bible?

in THAT case, who knows where you go.

[xKatt]

@ Sandra: Nope.

My interpretation is:

It's God's decision. He'll evaluate your life and if He thinks you're worthy, you're in (Heaven) and if He thinks you're unworthy you're out (Hell). Committing suicide might not be the only action that determines where you spend the rest of eternity, but it's a big factor that won't work in your favor.

Saying "yes people who commit suicide go to heaven" is stupid because what if they went on a killing spree and shot themselves in the head? Yes, they committed suicide, but does that mean they're going to heaven? Hell no.

It's not black and white.

Sorry, if I'm taking things too literally.

[*Sandraaa*]

I think it's fun when people think for God. What seems logic to humans might not be the same for God. To me, it's impossible to know.

[xKatt]

^ Hence the Theist vs. Atheist debate.

You can't hear, see, smell, feel or taste God. All you can do is interpret what He is and what He thinks. So is He real or completely an interpretation of the human mind? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

(But that's a whole different discussion.)

[*Sandraaa*]

How can you interprete something you can't feel nor touch nor smell ... ? Fine, we're digressing.

[xKatt]

Reading the Bible.

[*Sandraaa*]

Oh, the book that bored people wrote years years ago? Right, that.

[xKatt]

Yeah.



This one.

[*Sandraaa*]

I actually feel like reading the Bible.

I'm not kidding! WHO PRAYED FOR ME? WHO DID???? I'm scared.

WTF? I'm not kidding. Off I go.

[xKatt]

^ In revised editions of the Bible, it's been changed to "You shall not murder".

But even if it said "Thou shalt not kill", God already gave Man permission to kill and eat animals.

Deuteronomy 14:5-14:6

"These are animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud."

And 14:21

"Do you not eat anything you find already dead."

So pretty much, it says right there that you have to kill the animals you eat.

Of course the Bible is full of contradictions like that, and we'll always null the one that's less convenient for us...

[DarkImpressions]

No.
I wouldnt think so.

[Peanups]

^ In revised editions of the Bible, it's been changed to "You shall not murder".

But even if it said "Thou shalt not kill", God already gave Man permission to kill and eat animals.

Deuteronomy 14:5-14:6

"These are animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud."

And 14:21

"Do you not eat anything you find already dead."

So pretty much, it says right there that you have to kill the animals you eat.

Of course the Bible is full of contradictions like that, and we'll always null the one that's less convenient for us...

Uh you're taking the verses totally out of context.

Those were laws for the Jews and foreigners in Israel or whereever they might have been in the wilderness. Eating any animal not stated above ^ was making them "unclean" and "unholy" that they were not aloud to be in the presence of God until they went into purification ceremonies and waited the alotted time to become "cerimonially clean."

They weren't aloud to eat animals they already found dead because the person who found the animal wouldn't know how it died. If they didn't know how it died, they wouldn't know if they were cermonially clean.
-If an animal was killed by another animal it was unclean
-If it died a natural death it was unclean
&& so forth.

This was before Jesus came back and state to Peter

Acts 10:9-15

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

Since Jesus came and had made us forever "cerimonially clean" we could eat whatever.

Here's some more info:

"THE ATHEIST'S COMPLAINT:
What kind of animals may we eat? Some texts say none at all (Genesis 1:29; Proverbs 23:20; Isaiah 7:14-15; Daniel 1:8; Romans 14:21; 1 Corinthians 8:13), other Bible texts say only certain animals (Deuteronomy 14:7-8; Leviticus 11:2-4), but some say we can eat any animals (Genesis 9:3; Acts 10:9-13; 1 Corinthians 10:25; Romans 14:2, 14; 1 Timothy 4:1-3). Is there a contradiction?

RESPONSE:
The answer to the questioner's inquiry depends upon what time you are living in. Prior to the flood (Genesis 1:29), men were given plantlife to eat, not meat. However, after the flood (Genesis 9:3), men were permitted to eat meats, with no restrictions given. Such was the case until the time of Moses, when the Lord gave His law for Israel. In this law, the eating of meats was still permitted, but restrictions were imposed (Deuteronomy 14:7-8; Leviticus 11:2-4). This would be the case until the time of Christ, when the new covenant given through Christ was given. Under this law, God again gave freedom for His people to eat any meat (Acts 10:9-13; 1 Corinthians 10:25; Romans 14:2, 14; 1 Timothy 4:1-3). We today are under this law, wherein we have the freedom to eat whatever meat we desire to. It is not contradictory for there to be different instructions for different time periods. One might question why it is so, but certainly, a contradiction is not present.

Of the verses listed above which have not yet been referred to, only a brief explanation should clear up any misapplications. Proverbs 23:20 does not speak against eating meat entirely, but those who are "gluttonous eaters of meat." Isaiah 7:14-15 says nothing against eating meat, but simply speaks of the Lord eating of curds and honey. Take a look in the gospels, you'll see the Lord eating meat. Daniel 1:8 does not speak against eating meat, but tells us that Daniel did not take of the king's delicacies. Is it not possible that Daniel's vegetable diet was because the king ate the types of meat which the Jews were not permitted to eat? Paul's statements in Romans 14:21 and 1 Corinthians 8:13 are not outright exclusions of meat eating, but conditional statements. If my eating meat will violate the conscience of a fellow Christian, then I ought not do so. In context, Paul speaks of meats offered to idols and the difficulty some Jews had with leaving the restrictions of Moses' law behind.

There is no contradiction."

I guess this is off subject so i'll go back to the suicide thing.

Okay, well if I may go more indepth with what I meant was that I guess maybe the term "suicide" should be defined because there are people who will give birth to their children even though they may die, they are going into the situation know full well that they have a good chance to die, so is this suicide?

I'd say it's the motive of the heart.

[Jennifer]

"Define heaven" .. well good point.

IMO.. firstly they shouldn't go to "heaven", they've made a choice to kill themself, and as someone else said, it's just like they're spitting in Gods face, not embracing the fact that they were given life for a reason

The other side.. People sometimes do stupid things when they're sad, angry, frustrated. Everyone deserves a chance to be forgiven.

[*Sandraaa*]

Assumptions, really. What of those metally disabled people who commit suicide? It isn't their fault. So they're automatically condemned to the devil's den? Why didn't God save them since he has extraordinary powers?

[Peanups]

Assumptions, really. What of those metally disabled people who commit suicide? It isn't their fault. So they're automatically condemned to the devil's den? Why didn't God save them since he has extraordinary powers?

again i think it ultimately deals with the motive of the heart.
like about a kid who finds mommy and daddys gun and accidently kills themself, they didn't do it on purpose.

but i think if it was a Christian and wanted to be with God or something so they killed themself, I think they would have been disobeying God because they weren't being the "light of the world" or "salt of the earth" like He calls us to be.

[kimmytree]

Assumptions, really. What of those metally disabled people who commit suicide? It isn't their fault. So they're automatically condemned to the devil's den? Why didn't God save them since he has extraordinary powers?

I agree. But wouldnt you think that anyone who would go to the point of killing themselves is mentally unstable, or at least in a altered state of mind? Alot of people who kill themselves wouldnt normally go to that extreme. They just become so depressed and overwhelmed.

"Why didnt God save them since he has extraordinary powers?"
That's what I'm wondering. But what about the millions of people dying in Africa from aids, or children dying of cancer? Or babies being aborted? It doesnt seem like God's taking care of any of that either.

[*Sandraaa*]

^ That is what I find so contracdicting about this God issue. Why are there priviledged people and born-to-live and die-poor people? Why did God choose? Isn't that a form of discrimination?
What of those poor babies who are born with physical disorders? Why would He do that to innocent kids? Finally, he doesn't love everyone as much as Christians think He does.

[*Michelle*]

I actually feel like reading the Bible.

I'm not kidding! WHO PRAYED FOR ME? WHO DID???? I'm scared.

WTF? I'm not kidding. Off I go.

I hope someone doesn't pray for me :[

The Bible is boring and confusing as shit.

[Peanups]

^ That is what I find so contracdicting about this God issue. Why are there priviledged people and born-to-live and die-poor people? Why did God choose? Isn't that a form of discrimination?
What of those poor babies who are born with physical disorders? Why would He do that to innocent kids? Finally, he doesn't love everyone as much as Christians think He does.

I don't understand how you came to your last statement, well here you go: (I think the second applies most below)

I dont think its contradicting, I mean everyone is different and does different things, and will suffer the consequences for it. I don't think I should be punished the same for everyone else's sins, but only my own, which of course we all have really broken all the rules that God has laid out (i'll explain if you want me to).

Ultimately, the Lord has a purpose for all the things He has created, no matter how large or insignificant.

"First, we know there are some good purposes for evil. God often makes us aware of greater evils, that could arise by using lesser evils as warning signs. For example, the pain of a toothache warns us of a cavity. If not taken care of, it oculd require a root canal or other dental surgery (ouch!). Pain is often necessary to keep us from destroying ourselves. The first time we were burnt with a hot kitchen pan or an automobile engine was not fun, but it made us aware of the need to avoid hot materials. If we didn't learn, there could be even more severe consequences that could result in the form of losing life or limb.

Second, we may not know the purpose God has for evil, but that doesn't mean there is none. It is unreasonable to assume that God has no good reason for evil just because we are unaware of it...

Third, God allows evil in order to ultimately defeat evil. Jesus' death on the cross is a good example...... God permitted an evil injustice (Christ's death) to occur to one person (Jesus) in order to accomplish mercy for many *humankind).

God has good purpose for the evil that we may encounter even though we don't understand it."

-TruthQuest Living Loud Defending Your Faith

Personally, I have a mentally disabled cousin. He is such a blessing and God can use them in many ways that we (me and you) may not understand. He can place thoughts in that persons mind to speak aloud even though the person speaking does it know what they are saying or not understand fully like we do, they can minister to other people's hearts.

Deaths in families can often bring a close family member to realization.

There are so many other examples if you want more.

I agree. But wouldnt you think that anyone who would go to the point of killing themselves is mentally unstable, or at least in a altered state of mind? Alot of people who kill themselves wouldnt normally go to that extreme. They just become so depressed and overwhelmed.

"Why didnt God save them since he has extraordinary powers?"
That's what I'm wondering. But what about the millions of people dying in Africa from aids, or children dying of cancer? Or babies being aborted? It doesnt seem like God's taking care of any of that either.

I think the first and third above ^ apply.

[kimmytree]

^ Wow.

^ That is what I find so contracdicting about this God issue. Why are there priviledged people and born-to-live and die-poor people? Why did God choose? Isn't that a form of discrimination?
What of those poor babies who are born with physical disorders? Why would He do that to innocent kids? Finally, he doesn't love everyone as much as Christians think He does.

I dont think God interfears with our daily lives... he isnt just some puppet up there pulling strings.

Exactly. I really dont think God cares what goes on in our daily lives. Not that he doesnt care about us, he just doesnt alter things.

It really bothers me to think of how alot of Christians think God loves them more than someone who isnt "saved". How can someone be so ignorant? I know people who think when a prayer isnt answered, its "because it wasnt meant to be"... or "you didnt pray hard enough". So that's why he lets so many people suffer? And why he doesnt stop the millions of abortions from happening?

Sorry, I got a little off-topic.

[Peanups]

I totally understand how the whole
"you didn't pray hard enough" is totally incorrect.

"because it wasnt meant to be"...

Well God can't answer every prayer. Just imagine how many people would win the lottery if that were true.

[kimmytree]

I totally understand how the whole
"you didn't pray hard enough" is totally incorrect.



Well God can't answer every prayer. Just imagine how many people would win the lottery if that were true.

God's supposedly all powerful and all knowing, so why doesnt he? It cant be because they're are too many prayers to answer. And I'm not talking about crap like winning the lottery or a basketball game. I'm talking about life and death issues... non materialistic prayers.

So why would God answer one person's prayer, and not anothers? Even if they were for the same kind of thing? God must be playing favorites.

[*Sandraaa*]

Well God can't answer every prayer. Just imagine how many people would win the lottery if that were true.

So God chooses? That's what you mean. He chooses, he does eenie meenie manie moo. Great, nice to know.

God also chooses those who are mentally disabled to 'bless' the priviledged. Dandy.

Why can't everyone win the lottery if God is THAT good? Why won't he want those who pray to be happy?
Why are there rich unbelievers and extremely poor christians? How about Africa? Why did God choose to ruin that country? Why are there so many poor countries? Why were people born blind? Why do people starve to death?

WHAT IS GOD DOING TO THE SO CALLED PEOPLE HE 'loves'?

[no-name]

God is a f**kin sadist. He loves to watch people suffer.


And what is this "heaven"? IS it even real. I want proof.

[*Sandraaa*]

^ You have to die to get some proof.

[xKatt]

God is a f**kin sadist. He loves to watch people suffer.
And what is this "heaven"? IS it even real. I want proof.

Ahaha. See, you could either think God is a sadist or just don't believe in him. If God exists, I hate him with a burning passion. If he doesn't, I'm free of worries.

And proof? Jeez, if only Christians could give us something to work with rather than pulling stupid interpretations out of their asses.

[Kontroll]

God is a f**kin sadist. He loves to watch people suffer.
And what is this "heaven"? IS it even real. I want proof.

Hey, you can't prove there is a Heaven. That's why it's called faith. It's something to believe in. I'm not saying you should follow it blindly. It's not for everyone. If you don't want any part of it, then stop attacking it. It's not going to help your situation.

[*Steven*]

Well, do people who commit harakiri go to heaven?

[RAWRstephishere]

I think you should go try it.





I have no idea.

[jesusisthebestth...]

1. no you don't go to heaven if you commit suicide...because u cannot ask the Lord for forgivness of the sin...and committing suicide is a sin.

2. for those who say God doesn't exist i have a point for u...if something/someone doesnt existing it doesnt have a name, does it? so if God doesn't exist who created the term "God"? if no gods exist who creted the term "demigods"? come on people, have faith that there is more to the existence than yourself and your trials/tribulations.

[brooklyneast05]

2. for those who say God doesn't exist i have a point for u...if something/someone doesnt existing it doesnt have a name, does it? so if God doesn't exist who created the term "God"? if no gods exist who creted the term "demigods"? come on people, have faith that there is more to the existence than yourself and your trials/tribulations.

sherlock holmes doesn't exist but he still has a name
what does having a name have to do with anything
people make up names all the time

[Joss-eh-lime]

NO, because according to the Bible you can not murder. and if you murder yourself, you have gone against God and don't have a chance to redeem yourself.

But I'm sure depending on the circumstance, like a mentally ill person, God would be fair.

[*The Markster*]

But I'm sure depending on the circumstance, like a mentally ill person, God would be fair.

Including serious, deep depression?

[Joss-eh-lime]

^Yeah, probably
In my humble opinion God is completely fair all the time, so I believe He wouldn't toss someone in hell for having a problem with their brain chemistry.

[Peanups]

Yes agreed.. ^^

thankk you

[Rachel]

1. no you don't go to heaven if you commit suicide...because u cannot ask the Lord for forgivness of the sin...and committing suicide is a sin.

2. for those who say God doesn't exist i have a point for u...if something/someone doesnt existing it doesnt have a name, does it? so if God doesn't exist who created the term "God"? if no gods exist who creted the term "demigods"? come on people, have faith that there is more to the existence than yourself and your trials/tribulations.

Sooo the only reason you believe in Gods existence is because someone threw out the name God?

[jesusisthebestth...]

Sooo the only reason you believe in Gods existence is because someone threw out the name God?

u missed the point...the point was that we all should be selfless enough to accept the possibility/fact that there is more to the world/universe than us.

[brooklyneast05]

u missed the point...the point was that we all should be selfless enough to accept the possibility/fact that there is more to the world/universe than us.

u missed the point of her question
ur ignoring that u first told us that something that doesnt exist can't have a name, and that that is enough reason to believe in something

[jesusisthebestth...]

u missed the point of her question
ur ignoring that u first told us that something that doesnt exist can't have a name, and that that is enough reason to believe in something

that isn't what i said...i said that if any object/person didn't exist it wouldnt have a name, but i never ever said that because it has a name you should believe that it is so...thats ur interpretation based on your background, but i digress. i added it as a side point based on what others said, hence the number 2

[Joss-eh-lime]

^Lets get this straight about this whole name thing

Objects DO NOT need a name to exist; for example an undiscovered herb deep in the jungle. its there, but has no name

Objects that DONT exist, CAN have a name.; for example an imaginary friend. Doesn't exist, but has a name

back to the topic please?

[ClaudelGFX]

Yeah they all go to the Retards Heaven.

[pinacoolada]

Well commiting suicide is killing someone (duh). Therefore, you go against the 10 commandments etc. etc. In other words, you go to hell.

I think it's no different from murder, and it's harder on your loved ones. When someone is murdered by another person, the family that person left has someone to blame and someone to punish, to take their anger and despair out onto. When you commit suicide, it's your fault, therefore your family and loved ones have no one to blame. Sometimes they even blame themselves. It's incredibly selfish, and not to mention stupid.

[Kontroll]

1. no you don't go to heaven if you commit suicide...because u cannot ask the Lord for forgivness of the sin...and committing suicide is a sin.

2. for those who say God doesn't exist i have a point for u...if something/someone doesnt existing it doesnt have a name, does it? so if God doesn't exist who created the term "God"? if no gods exist who creted the term "demigods"? come on people, have faith that there is more to the existence than yourself and your trials/tribulations.

First of all... Like I said, initially, suicide is self murder. The Bible never says anywhere that if you commit suicide, you cannot enter into Heaven. Also, God allows murderers into Heaven, so, why wouldn't He allow some one who murdered their own selves into Heaven?

Secondly, look at how many gods there are. Are all of them real? Do all of them have names? So, you tell me how your statement makes sense.

Well commiting suicide is killing someone (duh). Therefore, you go against the 10 commandments etc. etc. In other words, you go to hell.

I think it's no different from murder, and it's harder on your loved ones. When someone is murdered by another person, the family that person left has someone to blame and someone to punish, to take their anger and despair out onto. When you commit suicide, it's your fault, therefore your family and loved ones have no one to blame. Sometimes they even blame themselves. It's incredibly selfish, and not to mention stupid.

I think that people take things too literally. Yes, if you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, then you should follow the Ten Commandments, but you have to realize we are humans. Humans make mistakes, therefore it is impossible to follow the Ten Commandments 100 percent correctly. If you read the Bible, it states that all sins expect for blasphemy and homosexuality are pretty much all the same to him. So, if you lied to some one, God sees that equivalently to stealing. Yeah, murder is a little more drastic than stealing or lying, but to God, a sin is a sin, except for those two previously mentioned. So, a person who steals has no chance of entering into Heaven, if this is the case.

So, there's a solution. Salvation. Whenever people think of Christianity, they tend to think about Catholicism. From what I heard, and read at least, Catholics believe that you get to Heaven by your works. If this was the case then everyone would be doomed. Even the
"saints". Everyone has problems with sin. Salvation is actually through Jesus Christ. If you believe that He died for your sins and was risen three days later...you technically are saved from damnation. I know it doesn't seem like much, and it takes alot more than that, but it's through faith, and not works that people are saved from going to Hell.

[EmoEyelinerx]

No one really knows.

[Kontroll]

No one really knows.

Exactly. That's the point.

My brother made a great point to me about me losing my faith.

'If we believed in everything our feeling wanted then love would be a magical fairy tale and truth would change by the minute.'

Faith is not just a spiritual thing. Everyone has faith. You trust your brakes will work in your car when you get in it. Right? Same idea.

I don't understand how people can argue with logic.

God sent Jesus to die for our sins so that we could be forgiven. Instead of sacrificing, Christians now call upon the Lord to forgive them of their sins. Murder is a sin. Suicide is self-murder. Therefore a sin. God sees all sins, besides homosexuality and blasphemy, equally. Therefore suicide is forgivable. That's the bottom line. There's no arguing it.

[*Uronacid*]

Exactly. That's the point.

My brother made a great point to me about me losing my faith.

'If we believed in everything our feeling wanted then love would be a magical fairy tale and truth would change by the minute.'

Faith is not just a spiritual thing. Everyone has faith. You trust your brakes will work in your car when you get in it. Right? Same idea.

I don't understand how people can argue with logic.

God sent Jesus to die for our sins so that we could be forgiven. Instead of sacrificing, Christians now call upon the Lord to forgive them of their sins. Murder is a sin. Suicide is self-murder. Therefore a sin. God sees all sins, besides homosexuality and blasphemy, equally. Therefore suicide is forgivable. That's the bottom line. There's no arguing it.

Agreed, that's why I haven't been arguing...

It's pointless. This can only go one way. It's unfortunate for those that believe in the Catholic religion and have lost a loved one to suicide, but as much as they might want to see a way around it; they can't; it's futile to argue; the answer is in black and white.

[bat19]

^ I disagree

It is mentioned many times in the bible that suicide is a sin and you will go to hell for it. Think of your body as a temple, a temple for the living god. Who are you to desecrate, mutilate, or destroy that temple? God does not want those who couldnt pass his test, the test of life. Whoever commits this mortal sin will feel the pain from the lake of fire, and hopefully will fall to the very center of Hell, where all are worthy of the suffering they will feel. The same goes for those who cut themselves and mutilate their bodies with piercings and tattoos(Jake). Your body is a temple, treat it accordingly.

In order to be accepted into heaven, your soul needs to be cleansed of all sin. I live my life the best I can without sin, but occasionally I slip as we all do. When this happens, I repent immediately and punish myself till God tells me I am pure again. You cannot be accepted into paradise if you have sin on your soul. Suicide is a sin, and if you are succesful, the last sin you will ever do. It is alone in being the only sin for which you can never be forgiven. You can be forgiven of murder, but not suicide.

[itsARIE]

2. for those who say God doesn't exist i have a point for u...if something/someone doesnt existing it doesnt have a name, does it? so if God doesn't exist who created the term "God"? if no gods exist who creted the term "demigods"? come on people, have faith that there is more to the existence than yourself and your trials/tribulations.

Amen Brother!!!!

[Kontroll]

^ I disagree

It is mentioned many times in the bible that suicide is a sin and you will go to hell for it. Think of your body as a temple, a temple for the living god. Who are you to desecrate, mutilate, or destroy that temple? God does not want those who couldnt pass his test, the test of life. Whoever commits this mortal sin will feel the pain from the lake of fire, and hopefully will fall to the very center of Hell, where all are worthy of the suffering they will feel. The same goes for those who cut themselves and mutilate their bodies with piercings and tattoos(Jake). Your body is a temple, treat it accordingly.

In order to be accepted into heaven, your soul needs to be cleansed of all sin. I live my life the best I can without sin, but occasionally I slip as we all do. When this happens, I repent immediately and punish myself till God tells me I am pure again. You cannot be accepted into paradise if you have sin on your soul. Suicide is a sin, and if you are succesful, the last sin you will ever do. It is alone in being the only sin for which you can never be forgiven. You can be forgiven of murder, but not suicide.

Then what about murderers? They desicrated a temple of God at some point. Should they not be allowed into Heaven?

[Peanups]

^ Yes, but if you murder someone, you are still ALIVE and have a chance to ask God for forgiveness.

If you kill yourself, you don't have time to ask for forgiveness after you commit the sin because you ARE DEAD.

[lilsnoopy]

God is suppose to be forgiving, a forgiving god, who allowed his son to die for the sake of others.
If this is true, why would I have to live in fear of his anger and go to hell, because I couldnt handle life and wanted to live in a better place?
God is a supreme being. Supreme beings should understand how fragile their creations are, and by being a forgiving god, understand and accept them.
Heaven is an ideal place, were if your good enough your allowed to visit
Hell is a scare tactic so man will live by someone else's rules

Yet, what I find so strange though, is the fact that a large amount of Christains dont even follow the Bible 100% anymore. They perform sins, and still beleive they are going to heaven just because they are good people, and also because they are a christain. This said, even if a person kills themselves, they still believe they are going to heaven, even if they performed a sin.

[Kontroll]

^ Yes, but if you murder someone, you are still ALIVE and have a chance to ask God for forgiveness.

If you kill yourself, you don't have time to ask for forgiveness after you commit the sin because you ARE DEAD.

Like the person said above me...God is forgiving. The thing is that asking forgiveness is not what gets you into Heaven. What gets you into Heaven is having a relationship with Jesus. If, by the Protestant worldview, you are saved, then you can never lose your salvation. Therefore, no matter what you do, you are always saved. Always a Christian. It's up to the person whether they want to follow the religion 100%. Don't blame the religion for that, because it happens in every religion. People are naturally bad, and will sin. It's human nature.

That's why people who commit suicide go to Heaven.