Challenge for Christians Options

[Simba]

An alternative approach:

"Prove that your God is different from an imaginary friend."

[cori-catastrophe]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

this is a good topic.

[misoshiru]

Maybe you've never had an imaginary friend who died on a cross and "rose to life" or promised you eternal life.

[kimmytree]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

this is a good topic.

Yeah, and my imaginary friend just flew out my window.

[xoxo_proud]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

My imaginary friend's friend died on a cross.

[Mulder]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

...
they're imaginary

so, yeah, if the person imagined them that way, they would.

[*onewaysalcha*]

An "imaginary friend" can never reach the ultimate status of any diety. And if we are Christians, we don't think God is "imaginary"...

[Mulder]

if i imagined someone as a deity, then to me, they would be as much a god as jesus is to you.

and when I said "imaginary", I was talking about the imaginary friends, not Jesus.

[*onewaysalcha*]

Well, of course if you're not exactly a Christian you can/will put God next to an imaginary friend. But it's not like anyone can prove God's existence anyway, hence this challenge is impossible.

[bat19]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

this is a good topic.

I had a friend named Charlie who owed me money, so I threw him off the top of the Red Cross building. He ironically fell on top of the giant flourescent Red cross and slowly died of internal bleeding and hemhoraging. I went home afterwards to many hits of blotter acid and decided to pop in Ben Hur. While on my couch, I noticed that Charlie was sitting next to me on the Barcolounger. He was bleeding from the head and his eyes had taken on a glassy, smoke color of light gray. I laughed at this and said my hello. At this he stood up which is when I noticed his legs were clearly broken, one bending backwards in an impossible angle that brought vomit close to the surface. His words which were mangled and fluid struck deep chords in my heart which I shall never forget as long as I live.
"I shall grant you eternal life, and grant your wishes. I am your genie. You are my master." At which point I woke up and realized I had shit my pants.

This is a retarded topic.

[elaboratedream]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

this is a good topic.

Prove that your god did any of those things, first of all.

Second, you're wrong about that one. My friend that only I can see (totally not imaginary, I dont care what everyone says) died on the cross, rose from the dead, promised me eternal life, answers my prayers AND can do the tango. TAKE THAT!

[*kryogenix*]

I don't pray to my imaginary friend.

Game over.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

There's really no way to prove anyone's god. Religion is beliefs, if it was fact it wouldn't be something you'd believe in; it'd just be a fact.

[USCavalry]

There's really no way to prove anyone's god. Religion is beliefs, if it was fact it wouldn't be something you'd believe in; it'd just be a fact.

exactly

Jesus taught Faith, Hope, and Love above all, not science.

[HelplessCry]

everyone knows God,
no one knows your imaginary friend

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

^ Yes, but god can mean different things to different people. Someone's god could even be money. Not everyone knows the Christian God.

[HelplessCry]

^ well the basic majority of people have heard about god s being the savior/ creator of the universe type thing.

[*steve330*]

Deism is ftw imo.
And that's quite a dumb challenge to make. You know a ton of people will come in being all defensive-like trying to defend their beliefs while completely ignoring the challenge at hand. It seems as if this was just posted to incite something *shrug*

[*Podomaht*]

Deism is ftw imo.
And that's quite a dumb challenge to make. You know a ton of people will come in being all defensive-like trying to defend their beliefs while completely ignoring the challenge at hand. It seems as if this was just posted to incite something *shrug*

Well, you know Arjuna. He likes to make those intelligent posts.



not reallly.

[Simba]

I was bored.

[*mishyerr*]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

ROFLMAO

Hahahahhahahahahahhaa

hahahhaa
ahahahahahaha

I'm sorry, but how does that prove anything? lols.
Hehehe.

...Seriously, though,
anything could be interpreted as an "answered" prayer. I pray for help in Africa, suddenly it rains and OH MY GOD, IT MEANS THAT THE AFRICANS HAVE MORE WATER, NO WAY?! :O *bows*

----------

Sometimes, having an imaginary friend who is God is good. B/c then you can control all.

[*pixiedust!*]

imaginary friends didn't die on the cross, nor did they rise from the dead.
imaginary friends don't answer prayers, nor do they promise eternal life.

this is a good topic.

That doesn't prove anything. I can have imaginary friends that do whatever I want them to.

You can't prove that a person's god is different than an imaginary friend. For me, what makes God real enough is looking at everything and just being thankful for it all... and a dash of faith.

Debate isn't really my thing; I just felt like replying.

[Laughsalot]

god answers prayers?

[HelplessCry]

^ not all the time.
sometimes you have to work for it in order for it to finally come true.
and not all prayers are necessarily good intentions.
god is basically that push but so can be a imaginary friend...hmm

[cori-catastrophe]

That doesn't prove anything. I can have imaginary friends that do whatever I want them to.

You can't prove that a person's god is different than an imaginary friend. For me, what makes God real enough is looking at everything and just being thankful for it all... and a dash of faith.

Debate isn't really my thing; I just felt like replying.

which has already been established by michelle.
anyways, as someone already stated, religion is a belief. you can't prove it right or wrong, so what is the point of even trying.
it's funny how you can use faith as a defence, but i got my head bitten off when i did.
how can you prove that he's not real?

boo! grr... Posted: May 18 2007, 6:32 AM
god answers prayers?

not all of them. he either says yes, no, or wait. it's as simple as that. he has his reasons for everything, whether some people want to believe that they don't have complete control or not.

Lam. 3:41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.
Is. 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Matt 7:7-8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Matt 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matt 18:19-20 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Ps 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Ps 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
Ps 145:18-19 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.
He will fulfill the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.
Prov 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
Jer 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
Matt 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
I Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1 Jn 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

[NoSex]

anyways, as someone already stated, religion is a belief. you can't prove it right or wrong, so what is the point of even trying.

So, why is it that you require proof and evidence for other beliefs but not your own religious beliefs?
Why would you believe something for which you have no proof?
What are you trying to argue here?

how can you prove that he's not real?

Burden of proof, dummy.

[cori-catastrophe]

So, why is it that you require proof and evidence for other beliefs but not your own religious beliefs?
Why would you believe something for which you have no proof?
What are you trying to argue here?
Burden of proof, dummy.

which is what i'm trying to explain. how are you to say that you're right or i'm right? you can't. how many times must i explain this? i have faith that my religion is right, just as you have faith that it's not. you come up with your own preferences(sp?) about certain things.

[*pixiedust!*]

which has already been established by michelle.
anyways, as someone already stated, religion is a belief. you can't prove it right or wrong, so what is the point of even trying.
it's funny how you can use faith as a defence, but i got my head bitten off when i did.
how can you prove that he's not real?

I wasn't "using faith as a defense," kthx.

[cori-catastrophe]

what we you using it as?

[kimmytree]

which is what i'm trying to explain. how are you to say that you're right or i'm right? you can't. how many times must i explain this? i have faith that my religion is right, just as you have faith that it's not. you come up with your own preferences(sp?) about certain things.

Well, athiests / agnostics tend to base their beliefs by logic, not faith. I agree, I think its impossible to prove either side right or wrong. But if you really do feel that way, and if you're going to keep bringing that up, then what's the point in you *trying* to debate?

[cori-catastrophe]

christianity has logic too.
i do feel that way, as alot of other people. the point of debating is being open-minded. why do you debate if you agree with that statement?

[kimmytree]

How so, when it is based upon faith?
I'm not saying that it's impossible for Christianity to be correct... I'm just trying to debate over why I think its highly unlikely.

[cori-catastrophe]

but you asked me why i was trying to debate at all. what's the point?
anyways, there is as much evidence behind the idea that there is a god as much as there is evidence as there being no god. all religions involve faith. christianity included. it's not based solely on faith. one theory has to be right, and they all involve faith. you have faith in your belifs, i have faith in mine.

[kimmytree]

And that's fine. I actually believe in God... I thought you would have caught on by now. I dont really believe in him/her or whatever by faith - I've just never seen enough evidence to disprove his existance. So I agree with you on that one. But Christianity is totally different, just like any other religion.

Nah, I dont really have "faith" in my beliefs at all. My beliefs have been established by logic.

[HakunaMatata]

This doesn't prove that God is different from an imaginary friend, but I thought it'd be fit here, and it may or may not of been brought up somewhere else, but:

Pascal's Wager

You bet there is a God:
There is a God: you win everything.
There isn't a God: you lose nothing.

You bet there isn't a God:
There is a God: you lose everything.
There isn't a God: you lose nothing.

[cori-catastrophe]

And that's fine. I actually believe in God... I thought you would have caught on by now. I dont really believe in him/her or whatever by faith - I've just never seen enough evidence to disprove his existance. So I agree with you on that one. But Christianity is totally different, just like any other religion.

Nah, I dont really have "faith" in my beliefs at all. My beliefs have been established by logic.

i know that you do. i didn't say that you didn't.
christianity is totally different from what? you really should be more specific.
not to mention you just contradicted yourself in saying that you do believe in god by "logic". you said before that you were just "trying to debate why you think that it's highly unlikely". you also said that it didn't have much logic.

[Simba]

not to mention you just contradicted yourself in saying that you do believe in god by "logic".

It's not like the concept of God is completely illogical. In fact, when getting everything straight, it's quite logical.

It's like being a fan of a famous person, and then being a fan of a famous person and knowing how they got where they are now, how they work, their philosophy on life, and etcetera.

[Jamwllms]

You can't prove a negative. It's impossible.

Instead, we can say it's "Highly unlikely" there's no such thing as God, but we can't be certain.

And God is completely irrelevant from everything anyway. It's not like he's damaging my, or anyone elses, quality of life..


- James.

[kimmytree]

i know that you do. i didn't say that you didn't.
christianity is totally different from what? you really should be more specific.
not to mention you just contradicted yourself in saying that you do believe in god by "logic". you said before that you were just "trying to debate why you think that it's highly unlikely". you also said that it didn't have much logic.

Well, it just kinda sounded like you did.
It and any other religion is different from Athiesm and Agnosticism. Sorry for not being specific, but I thought it'd be obvious what I was talking about.

When did I say that I didnt have much logic? Yeah, I did say that it's highly unlikely that Christianity is accurate, not the basic concept of a God. So what are you getting at? I didnt contradict myself at all.

[cori-catastrophe]

Well, athiests / agnostics tend to base their beliefs by logic, not faith.

[*karmakiller*]

It's like being a fan of a famous person, and then being a fan of a famous person and knowing how they got where they are now, how they work, their philosophy on life, and etcetera.

That's called stalking.

The thing is, is that there's no "right" side. But that's the point of a debate. If there was one side that was right it wouldn't a debate at all. The thing that's hard for anyone of any religion is to prove that their god does actually exsist. Call me lame, but those who do have a god, the proof lies in how you believe in that god. Someone who would give up on their god doesn't have much of belief that their god actually does exsist. For all we know there might be no god. I think the reason we have gods and religion is to give us some sort of hope of the unknown of what happens to us after we die; what I believe is a whole other subject.

Ick, overusage of the word "god".

[NoSex]

anyways, there is as much evidence behind the idea that there is a god as much as there is evidence as there being no god.

Anyways, there is as much evidence behind the idea that there are fairies living in my basement as there is evidence as there being no fairies living in my basement.

Still sound so convincing?

[Venia]

hmmm . . . there is no way to prove that God exists or is real. yes, there is a lot of evidence for Him. There is also a lot of evidence for evolution. it just depends on how you look at things and/or twist them, the same discoveries can be used for or against God/intelligent design. i think belief in God is an act of faith. it's impossible to see Him or prove Him. the same goes for evolution or atheism. it's faith cause you can't prove it. God's invisible, just like an imaginary friend. He defies logic, so you can't prove Him with logical arguments. one thing i do know, though, is that the Bible is too accurate to be made up by insane men. either it's the biggest conspiracy on the face of the planet or it's the 100% truth. personally, i find it hard to believe that the apostles and Jesus would have given their lives for something they were making up and knew was a hoax. that's not a fairtale. there is historical evidence for all that the bible records about them. what they did wasn't exactly making them rich and famous. i wouldn't die for nothing, and i don't think the millions of other marders would've, either.

also, how could so many people over as many years as it took to write the bible all say the same thing without even knowing each other? it would take a super natural force just to create the conspiracy, lol. invisible people can't write books, either. anyhow, all this talk isn't gonna make anyone believe anything. if you do believe in God, don't talk about it; do it. Christians who are all talk and like "prove God doesn't exist" drive me nutso. just be who you are and true to what you believe. if you don't believe in God, that's your business, not mine. don't get in my face and tell me what i believe is insane if i'm not in your face calling you insane. i'm not calling anyone insane. people are smart. just don't think it's your right to push your morality on me.

[USCavalry]

you might be able to prove the existence of jesus and some of the old happenings of the bible, but as everyone has pointed out earlier, religion is largely based on faith. "thou shall not put the lord to the test." pretty sure it says that somewhere.

if scientests can prove the existence of jesus and old bible scripture, it would be cool if they could prove some of revalations, for example: astronomy related revalations and apacolyptic revolations.

[omgomgKATHY]

I guess i do base my believes on faith aswell as the bibles teachings. Whether God maybe real or not, I choose to believe in him. For me it's mostly based on faith and the comfort i feel when I speak to him. Idk but i rather believe in God, and one day find out he doesn't exsist, than not believe in him at all, and find out he does. He gives me a purpose in life, aswell as too many others. so yeah^-^

So "Imaginary" or not, I believe in him (:

[Simba]

It's too bad this turned into another "prove that God exists" discussion.

[*karmakiller*]

It's too bad this turned into another "prove that God exists" discussion.

Proving that he's not imaginary, or different than something imaginary and proving that he exists is a fine line.

[1angel3]

This is how I know God from imaginary.

God have numerous ways to speaking to you. He is you conscious. He is your instincts. He can be that little voice in your head. He can speak to you through another person. You would never know how he is going to come at you. All you have to do is listen and pay attention but it's easy to get caught up. It feels real, and you just know when it's him but watch out for the disguise.

But mostly it just feels right.

[kimmytree]

^ But how can you be so sure of that? What if we are subconsciously our own conscious? Both humans and animals are born with their own distinct insincts.

The claim that "he can speak to you through another person" is no more believable than thinking that trees can speak to you through another person.

What disguise are you referring to? Satan?

[1angel3]

^ But how can you be so sure of that? What if we are subconsciously our own conscious? Both humans and animals are born with their own distinct insincts.

The claim that "he can speak to you through another person" is no more believable than thinking that trees can speak to you through another person.

What disguise are you referring to? Satan?

You would just know when its God. God can indeed talk to you through another person, you never know how God is going to use people. Now do not be funny, we all know trees cannot talk through people . For the disguise, yes most likely I am referring to Satan. He is the greatest trickster. Trickery is his tool.

[NoSex]

For the disguise, yes most likely I am referring to Satan. He is the greatest trickster. Trickery is his tool.

What if I told you that the Bible was merely a clever trick orchestrated by Satan to lead all men astray?

[kimmytree]

You would just know when its God. God can indeed talk to you through another person, you never know how God is going to use people. Now do not be funny, we all know trees cannot talk through people . For the disguise, yes most likely I am referring to Satan. He is the greatest trickster. Trickery is his tool.

I was a Christian for about 5 years, and not once did God communicate to me in ANY way. And trust me, I was looking for him.

Now I'm not saying I dont believe in God, because I do. But not the God the Bible refers to. What's the point in God talking to us? Out of curiosity, what has God said to you?

What exactly do you think Satan does? You seriously dont believe in him, and that he tries do decieve us... do you?

[1angel3]

I was a Christian for about 5 years, and not once did God communicate to me in ANY way. And trust me, I was looking for him.

But was you listening?

Now I'm not saying I dont believe in God, because I do. But not the God the Bible refers to. What's the point in God talking to us? Out of curiosity, what has God said to you?

God talk to us to instruct us, simple things like knowing from right or wrong. Have you ever walk down the street and the little voice or instincts told you maybe you want to turn right instead of keeping straight. You may not know why you decided to turn right. Maybe something happen up the street, you do not know.

What have God said to you? Well like the little example above, I had an experience likes that. I made a decision and did not know why and then I got home and turn on the news and find out there was a shootout. If I kept the direction I intended to go I may of got shot and killed.

What exactly do you think Satan does? You seriously dont believe in him, and that he tries do decieve us... do you?

Satan does a lot. He is the reason why you may not get along with some of your family. Satan starts wars. Satan is hate. I try not to have hate in my heart so you never hear me say I hate someone, maybe dislike. That's some things Satan does. Satan is busy guy, and I cannot name everything he does.

You never know how God is going to use you. Simple thing like complimenting them, and telling them they look nice. You may have stop them from committing suicide, you never know.

[Kontroll]

How about instead of just attacking Christians, make it a topic to prove each faiths God.

[Simba]

That was the original plan; make the question directed for theists. But at the time that I made the topic, there were some certain (not all) Christians around the Debate forum whom I was interested in how they would post.

And it all went as expected.

[xKatt]

This is how I know God from imaginary.

God have numerous ways to speaking to you. He is you conscious. He is your instincts. He can be that little voice in your head. He can speak to you through another person. You would never know how he is going to come at you. All you have to do is listen and pay attention but it's easy to get caught up. It feels real, and you just know when it's him but watch out for the disguise.

But mostly it just feels right.

I think I read this on a Hallmark card once.

[illriginal]

Meh God speaks to me through metaphysical thoughts. It's not an outside voice, not a person, nor an animal...

[1angel3]

I think I read this on a Hallmark card once.

Haha really, I never seen it. Who ever wrote it thinks like me.

[Peanups]

Prove that your god did any of those things, first of all.

Second, you're wrong about that one. My friend that only I can see (totally not imaginary, I dont care what everyone says) died on the cross, rose from the dead, promised me eternal life, answers my prayers AND can do the tango. TAKE THAT!

Jesus DID live on this earth, that is proven, even secular books say that Jesus was the "Father of Christianity"

It is proven that Jesus DID live on this earth and He did die.

The speculation is of course of did He rise?

Some speculate he never relaly died and he just opened the tomb.
-WRONG: listen, how could a man that had holes in his ankles and wrists and 39 lashes open up a tomb BY HIMSELF? Even if he wasn't hurt, how could he get out of the linen wrap around him and then open the tomb. A HUGE rock was around it. Even if He managed to do that, there were Roman Guards outside of it.

Some speculate that his disciples got him out.
-WRONG: okay again, there was a huge rock that covered the entrance and AGAIN, there were Roman guards with ACTUAL weapons with them, what would the disciples do, throw rocks at them????

Also, there have been accounts of people seeing Jesus after he died, around what 500 people?

How can you prove evolution then? There are absolutely no archelogical finds of bones that link us to them. And all of the finds that supposedly did were all found to be fakes.

http://www.kc-cofc.org/39th/Lectures/2001%...issingLinks.PDF

Walaa

Also scientist have been able to link that the Old Testament Bible WAS written in BC, before the Messiah actually came. Obviously the type of words and language they used gave it away.

To make it even clearer, Jesus fufilled ALL of those prophecys about the Messiah is AMAZING, and the New Testament and Old Testament have such devinity and harmonization together unlike many other books it is amazing how people cannot say there is no God. Also there are over 32,000 archealogical finds to back up the book.

What if I told you that the Bible was merely a clever trick orchestrated by Satan to lead all men astray?

If you wrote a book about yourself, saying you were the worst person who was ever to be born on this earth and that you were the most sinful bein alive,, wouldn't you get bad press and probably be looked down, even hated by many people,, even if you had or HADN'T signed your name on the cover of that book.

"A kingdom at war against itself will fall."

It has happened in families, in countries, and many other places.

I highly doubt Satan would write a book slandering himself,, for it would be putting himself at war with well... himself.

BUT.. i think that is a subject for another time.

----------------------

Fine, you say prove God isn't different from an imaginary friend.

Then:

Prove colors are real to someone who is blind.

They've never seen it, you can't touch colors and automatically be like "OH ITS BLUE" without looking, you can't smell colors, and the person can't see colors, the one sense they need to KNOW about colors.

**SIMPLE PONDERING**

Maybe all humans are missing the sense of God?
-just a question that popped into my mind-