christianity, discuss, share your opinions, and be polite. Options

[*suddenly she*]

I don't know where this goes, since there's not a specific debate topic.
Be considerate of others; not everyone believes what you do!

I'm starting the thread off with nondenominational Christianity, because that's my reply when I'm asked what my religion is. Of course, feel free to branch out. I'd be glad to have a reply from anyone just to see what your views are, including people who aren't Christian.

In my opinion, I think Christianity shouldn't be too difficult of a concept and that a lot of churches make things too complicated. These days I think people make it into too much of a "religion" or at least my negative idea of religion. I think it's more of a relationship based on trust and faith... for works, you do what the Bible says out of love and respect, not because you're horribly bound to laws.

I think splitting the church up into so many sections is rather silly and that anyone who loves and worships God and keeps striving to build the relationship is worth being called the same name as another Christian from any other denomination.

Opinions?

[Simba]

Be considerate of others; not everyone believes what you do!

Emphasis.

In my opinion, I think Christianity shouldn't be too difficult of a concept and that a lot of churches make things too complicated. These days I think people make it into too much of a "religion" or at least my negative idea of religion.

Cosign.

I think splitting the church up into so many sections is rather silly and that anyone who loves and worships God and keeps striving to build the relationship is worth being called the same name as another Christian from any other denomination.

And cosign.

I'll give some of my own opinions on Christianity and general religion in a bit.

[clarity]

Actually the reason why there are separate names, protestant & catholic, because the differences in rules, etc. Protestant is catholic light.


Well actually thats IMO, but the hell if know anything, I'm just Agnostic... maybe even atheist.

[*salcha4u*]

I don't know where this goes, since there's not a specific debate topic.
Be considerate of others; not everyone believes what you do!

I'm starting the thread off with nondenominational Christianity, because that's my reply when I'm asked what my religion is. Of course, feel free to branch out. I'd be glad to have a reply from anyone just to see what your views are, including people who aren't Christian.

In my opinion, I think Christianity shouldn't be too difficult of a concept and that a lot of churches make things too complicated. These days I think people make it into too much of a "religion" or at least my negative idea of religion. I think it's more of a relationship based on trust and faith... for works, you do what the Bible says out of love and respect, not because you're horribly bound to laws.

I think splitting the church up into so many sections is rather silly and that anyone who loves and worships God and keeps striving to build the relationship is worth being called the same name as another Christian from any other denomination.

Opinions?

I'm a nondenominational Christian too! :) I think people generalize a lot about us. One of the MOST common images people have is that everyone is stuffed into one building singing hymns, which is NOT true at all. It does not ruin your social life and it's not seen as an "embarrassment" either. It's a choice we chose to make. As you said, Christianity is based on faith but it requires spiritual growth as well, which includes going to church/reading the Bible/praying.

[misoshiru]

Wouldn't this go under debate?

Personally, I'm agnostic. All of my elementary and middle school was spent in a small Christian school, and when I went to my high school, it was when I realized how constricted my views had been. Granted, I understand that many Christians aren't like this, but for me, it's very difficult now to talk to the people I went to Christian school with. For them, God is basically their life, and they keep praising what God does to them and to the world.

But of course, we can bring up arguments such as evolution. The bible does not talk about evolution, but scientific evidence points straight towards it. I feel that the hard evidence we have is too much to be ignored.

Not to mention, as I've grown up, I have different morals. And as I'm at an all-women's college, where a large amount of the student population are homosexual, I find the Christian disdain of homosexuality rather offensive and in a way, pointless. And this is only one of many of my beliefs/values that go against Christian beliefs.

But to go back to your point on splitting up the Christian church. It may be pointless, but because of the different interpretations of the Bible, it seems that it is necessary. Of course, sections of the church take different perspectives of the bible to different extremes. So, I think that if you tried to unite all sections under a nondenominational Christian church, there would be too much 'inner-power struggles' to push for the "right" interpretation.

[*suddenly she*]

Hi Sally! I actually think the purpose of church is mostly to fellowship and meet more people, which does lead to spiritual growth. You never know what someone else could teach you. Also, meeting more people = good for your social life.

There's no real debating point as far as I can tell; I just wanted a sort of a discussion.

There are some kids at my church who were literally extracted from the rest of the kids by their parents to be homeschooled and taught about Christianity for more than five years... I thought that was kind of freaky. They're back now, but everything they say, they relate back to God and it's difficult to relate to them because... well, sometimes they don't explain themselves very well or when we talk about problems they just seem to use the phrase, "Trust God on it; I'm praying for you" and... it's frustrating. I'm not too great at talking with them either.

Would you mind sharing more of your beliefs that don't agree with Christianity? I can't say much about evolution since I haven't researched/studied it all that much... I'll read up on it some more this weekend though and maybe we'll be able to have an educated conversation then.

I'm also annoyed by the way some Christians (especially my parents) view homosexuality... A lot of the time my parents will just randomly go off about how gay marriage is blahblahblah and how homosexual people are going to hell, but I think that's dumb and hypocritical. At the same time, my parents are all about "loving thy neighbor as thyself" but incessant criticism isn't my particular version of love.

I'm not suggesting that we try and unite everyone under one giant blanket of nondenominational Christians; you're right about that - it would never work, and even if it did temporarily, there would be corruption just because we are human and that's what humans do.

But what bugs me is the people that repetitively try and force a certain interpretation onto other people, or forcing anything at all. The way I see it, if someone's really so passionate about God and his or her own interpretation... he or she needs to put God first instead of his or her opinion. To explain, share your opinion if you must - but leave the rest up to God. I figure He'd have it all more under control than anyone else does.



GEEZ LONG POST
sorry guys, hopefully I haven't put anyone to sleep.

[*salcha4u*]

Hi Sally! I actually think the purpose of church is mostly to fellowship and meet more people, which does lead to spiritual growth. You never know what someone else could teach you. Also, meeting more people = good for your social life.

There's no real debating point as far as I can tell; I just wanted a sort of a discussion.

There are some kids at my church who were literally extracted from the rest of the kids by their parents to be homeschooled and taught about Christianity for more than five years... I thought that was kind of freaky. They're back now, but everything they say, they relate back to God and it's difficult to relate to them because... well, sometimes they don't explain themselves very well or when we talk about problems they just seem to use the phrase, "Trust God on it; I'm praying for you" and... it's frustrating. I'm not too great at talking with them either.

Would you mind sharing more of your beliefs that don't agree with Christianity? I can't say much about evolution since I haven't researched/studied it all that much... I'll read up on it some more this weekend though and maybe we'll be able to have an educated conversation then.

I'm also annoyed by the way some Christians (especially my parents) view homosexuality... A lot of the time my parents will just randomly go off about how gay marriage is blahblahblah and how homosexual people are going to hell, but I think that's dumb and hypocritical. At the same time, my parents are all about "loving thy neighbor as thyself" but incessant criticism isn't my particular version of love.

I'm not suggesting that we try and unite everyone under one giant blanket of nondenominational Christians; you're right about that - it would never work, and even if it did temporarily, there would be corruption just because we are human and that's what humans do.

But what bugs me is the people that repetitively try and force a certain interpretation onto other people, or forcing anything at all. The way I see it, if someone's really so passionate about God and his or her own interpretation... he or she needs to put God first instead of his or her opinion. To explain, share your opinion if you must - but leave the rest up to God. I figure He'd have it all more under control than anyone else does.



GEEZ LONG POST
sorry guys, hopefully I haven't put anyone to sleep.

Well most of the time, Christian opinions relate back to the Bible and they base their beliefs off of what God says is right: the ten commandments. The debate on homosexuality is still questionable, depending on if you're religiously liberal or conservative. Most of the time the church condones it as sin; it's just not acceptable.There aren't very many direct references to homosexuality in the Bible but by the story of Adam and Eve, God had specifically placed two opposite genders together in Genesis: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.'"

And that phrase....haha "Trust God and I'll be praying for you" is used SO commonly at my church. It's pretty hard because God isn't a tangible object that can talk back to. But you know, what they say is true. :d

Evolution is a touchy subject as well.

[*mishyerr*]

I agree with you, but people will always interpret the Bible differently. That's why there are so many different branches of Christianity.

[michellerrific]

I think splitting the church up into so many sections is rather silly and that anyone who loves and worships God and keeps striving to build the relationship is worth being called the same name as another Christian from any other denomination.

That's kind of what I always wondered too. But like mishyerr said, people will always interpret the Bible differently.

I'm not exactly sure what to input here. I agree with you saying that you should follow the Bible out of love/respect, not as a rule book. I guess I would call myself a Christian in a way, but I'm not such a strict believer - I don't even attend church. But I do read the Bible sometimes.

[misoshiru]

Would you mind sharing more of your beliefs that don't agree with Christianity? I can't say much about evolution since I haven't researched/studied it all that much... I'll read up on it some more this weekend though and maybe we'll be able to have an educated conversation then.

Well, in my Christian school that I went to, I was taught that evolution was false and basically, the scientific evidence meant nothing. Even though they taught Biology in 9th grade after I left, I highly doubt that evolution was part of the curriculum.

Some of my other views include Pro-Choice and Stem Cell Research. I'm not saying that all Christians are against these two views, but many Christians I've met oppose both of these views. There are many people Christians or not who see "babies" as being "babies" at the moment of conception, but I don't. Like House said in the episode 2 weeks ago, it's like a parasite up till it's fully developed. Abortion may not be the right choice for everyone, but I don't see why it shouldn't be legalized. For me, if you don't want to get an abortion or you think that it's morally wrong, then don't. But, I feel that women should have the right to choose whether or not they want an abortion or not and not have the government say that because it is "immoral", it is illegal. This is the same with Stem Cell Research, but on a different level. Some may see it as killing for research, but I see it as just a way of saving even more peoples' lives.

I don't think that religion should be able to wield the power to stop individuals from doing what they want. Sure, they set down guidelines as seen in the Ten Commandments, but who are you to determine whether an embryo is a living human being or just another cell? This, I think is up to the individual, and if you don't agree with it, then don't participate in it, but who are you to forbid someone else for getting involved in something they believe in?

[kimmytree]

Well, I can tell you why I am not a Christian.

My main issue is salvation. If a person really does have to be saved, 95% of the world is going to burn in an eternal hell. I just cant believe something like that. What about the six million Jews who died in the Hollocaust? They died for their FAITH, but they still get to burn in hell? Or what about the people in Africa that missionaries dont reach? Or even those who deny Jesus? I dont think God would let his children burn in hell for something like that.

And then there's the sexism. In the Bible, there's numerous stories/verses that refer to WIVES instead of wife. And, that Adam/man is above woman. And what about all the rape in the Bible? I'll have to find the verse, but there's one that talks about if a man rapes a woman, he has to pay her father money and marry her. What say does the woman have in this? Obviously none.

And what about the mass murdering of women and children? There's so many stories where God has "commanded" people to kill innocent people.

And then there's evolution, which someone has already mentioned.

[*mishyerr*]

Well, I can tell you why I am not a Christian.

My main issue is salvation. If a person really does have to be saved, 95% of the world is going to burn in an eternal hell. I just cant believe something like that. What about the six million Jews who died in the Hollocaust? They died for their FAITH, but they still get to burn in hell? Or what about the people in Africa that missionaries dont reach? Or even those who deny Jesus? I dont think God would let his children burn in hell for something like that.

And then there's the sexism. In the Bible, there's numerous stories/verses that refer to WIVES instead of wife. And, that Adam/man is above woman. And what about all the rape in the Bible? I'll have to find the verse, but there's one that talks about if a man rapes a woman, he has to pay her father money and marry her. What say does the woman have in this? Obviously none.

And what about the mass murdering of women and children? There's so many stories where God has "commanded" people to kill innocent people.

And then there's evolution, which someone has already mentioned.

^ Perfect example of a different interpretation. I agree with you with what you said.

Interpretations cause people to split because of what they think the Bible tells them to do. Some may look upon those sort of things (polygamy, rape, punishments, mass murdering, etc) as a thing of the past.
In my opinion, those things in the Bible should not effect today because we are a different society and our morals are different (not better or worse). But yet, there are extremists who interpet the Bible exactly as it is.

shrug*

[Simba]

In my opinion, those things in the Bible should not effect today because we are a different society and our morals are different (not better or worse).

Can't forget, though, that several of the morals that people have even today originate with Christianity.

[*mishyerr*]

Can't forget, though, that several of the morals that people have even today originate with Christianity.

Yeah, I know. I meant along the lines of allowing polygamy, etc.

[kimmytree]

This isnt the verse I was referring to earlier, but it's definately something to think about.

"A man should not wear anything on his head when worshiping, for man is made in God's image and reflects God's glory. And woman reflects man's glory. For the first man didn't come from woman, but the first woman came from man. And man was not made for woman, but woman was made for man. For this reason, and because the angels are watching, a woman should wear a covering on her head to show she is under authority." (1 Corinthians 11:7-10)

Hmm. So are Christian women expected to cover their heads? Like they do in many Middle Eastern countries. They obviously dont. Are Christians ignoring the verse, or just arent aware of it?

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

Well a lot of reasons why there is different denominations within a religion is history. I was born, baptized, and confirmed a Christian. Sometimes my parents make me go to church with them but nowadays I doubt God. It's not that I don't believe that there is some force much greater than us, but I just doubt him. God is supposed to help you, and I've so many things in my life happen that make me doubt he exists. In all honesty, I have strange views on religion in general that not many people like. I think religion is just a safety cushion. I think it's something that people follow as a way to not fear the unknown... what happens after we die and why, in fact, things happen.

[*suddenly she*]

Well, in my Christian school that I went to, I was taught that evolution was false and basically, the scientific evidence meant nothing. Even though they taught Biology in 9th grade after I left, I highly doubt that evolution was part of the curriculum.

Some of my other views include Pro-Choice and Stem Cell Research. I'm not saying that all Christians are against these two views, but many Christians I've met oppose both of these views. There are many people Christians or not who see "babies" as being "babies" at the moment of conception, but I don't. Like House said in the episode 2 weeks ago, it's like a parasite up till it's fully developed. Abortion may not be the right choice for everyone, but I don't see why it shouldn't be legalized. For me, if you don't want to get an abortion or you think that it's morally wrong, then don't. But, I feel that women should have the right to choose whether or not they want an abortion or not and not have the government say that because it is "immoral", it is illegal. This is the same with Stem Cell Research, but on a different level. Some may see it as killing for research, but I see it as just a way of saving even more peoples' lives.

I don't think that religion should be able to wield the power to stop individuals from doing what they want. Sure, they set down guidelines as seen in the Ten Commandments, but who are you to determine whether an embryo is a living human being or just another cell? This, I think is up to the individual, and if you don't agree with it, then don't participate in it, but who are you to forbid someone else for getting involved in something they believe in?

In middle school, at a youth meeting, we had a speaker called Pat Zukerman talk with us about evolution... Before nearly all the elders at the church just told us evolution was wrong and blasphemous But Pat ended up talking to us about reasons why microevolution was definitely true, reasonable, and able to be proved in history. However, I still don't know squat about evolution in general so maybe I'll reply later.

I don't get what a lot of Christians are saying about abortion. I think it's actually inconsiderate for some people to tote around Pro-life signs and preach about how "abortion stops a beating heart" if they don't know what life is like in the shoes of the other person. I definitely don't know, and I hope the government never imposes a pro-life law for the same reason you do. Anyway, for the Bible-toting, verse-quoting Christians, if they really think abortion is murder, then bless the little babies because they get to go straight to heaven. That's not supposed to sound offensive.

I also agree with you on stem cell research... so maybe I'd be a heretic to the Christians you know.

Religion shouldn't be wielding power to stop people from doing what they want, but a person's relationship with God or his/her preferred supernatural being should definitely influence what a person does and acts like. God gave Adam and Eve free choice.

-

kimmytree - I'm willing to bet that God is loving and just, otherwise this world would probably be in worse shambles than it is now. What I mean by that is that I don't think God would let people go to hell just because a) Christianity didn't exist in their time, b) they didn't have the opportunity, and c) ... everything else that would even seem mildly unfair.

I personally think that some things the Bible states need to be adapted reasonably to modern life - and I know saying "adapted reasonably" just causes a billion more interpretations of what's reasonable and whatnot.

For me it all leads back to just building up the relationship through prayer, meditation, and reading. It's deciding what's appropriate for this day and age, and of course, what Jesus would do. Even Jesus found an adulteress and let her live, didn't he? It's not all about deeds.

The business you said about rape and mass murders I'll have to look up, since I'm not familiar with it.

For head coverings, I don't believe most Christians know about it... but I don't think God places that much value on hair. If uncovering your head and showing your hair is causing guys sexual thoughts, then I guess it would be better to cover your head. LOL

And sexism?
Woman supports man, man supports woman.
Emotionally, financially, physically, etc. You have to adapt - sometimes guys aren't all capable of financially supporting a woman and possibly a family alone, right?

Thanks for replying.

[Simba]

Man and woman are both human, but they are still two notably differing rolls.

[kimmytree]

kimmytree - I'm willing to bet that God is loving and just, otherwise this world would probably be in worse shambles than it is now. What I mean by that is that I don't think God would let people go to hell just because a) Christianity didn't exist in their time, b) they didn't have the opportunity, and c) ... everything else that would even seem mildly unfair.

I personally think that some things the Bible states need to be adapted reasonably to modern life - and I know saying "adapted reasonably" just causes a billion more interpretations of what's reasonable and whatnot.

For me it all leads back to just building up the relationship through prayer, meditation, and reading. It's deciding what's appropriate for this day and age, and of course, what Jesus would do. Even Jesus found an adulteress and let her live, didn't he? It's not all about deeds.

The business you said about rape and mass murders I'll have to look up, since I'm not familiar with it.

For head coverings, I don't believe most Christians know about it... but I don't think God places that much value on hair. If uncovering your head and showing your hair is causing guys sexual thoughts, then I guess it would be better to cover your head. LOL

And sexism?
Woman supports man, man supports woman.
Emotionally, financially, physically, etc. You have to adapt - sometimes guys aren't all capable of financially supporting a woman and possibly a family alone, right?

Thanks for replying.

[I'll edit with the rape and murderings in a few minutes. ]

How so? As humans we can never comprehend or understand what we dont know. I think its impossible to prove that or the opposite. How do we know God does or does not have anything to do with the world's current state? We dont. I dont believe God has that much direct control. I dont think he just sits back and watches, but I dont think he controls every little thing we do and thing that happends in the world.

I think the means of salvation in Christianity are definately ignorant. I hope no one is offended by that, but I believe its true. I personally am not religious, but I definately believe in God, and in an afterlife. Who knows, we may all end up in the same place - the good and bad. I actually believe Heaven/Hell will be a state of mind, almost like a dream, reliving our pasts. If a person has lived a good life, then they're going to mostly have happy thoughts. But if someone has lived a not so good life, they're going to relive everything they've done. Like a murder is going to relive all the guilt. So I guess in a sense that can be a state of Hell. [/rambling.]

But who's to say what we can and can not modify something in the Bible to fit modern life? If we start modifying even just one thing, it makes the whole thing questionable. Its either everything or nothing at all, to me at least.

I wasnt trying to dwell on the whole hair issue; it was just that I felt as if the verse was very sexist. It obviously says that man was created in God's image, and woman in man's image. How is that not sexist? That definately places man way above woman... almost in a sense that there is just as big of a difference between God and man as there is between man and woman.

Hmm. This is more of a debate... its kinda hard for something like this to not turn into one. Maybe this should be moved?

[pinacoolada]

I'm Catholic according to my parents...
But in reality, my beliefs about God are so mixed up that the only way I can describe it is by saying I'm just plain Christian.
It would be awesome to have a church where believers can worship God without set rules of how to, or even specific ceremonies.

[HakunaMatata]

So today in church I totally realize how embarrassed I used to be of being a devout Catholic. I would never stand up for some of the stuff I believed in and I thought it was taboo to mention God in a conversation. I felt like people really looked down on people who worshipped - and it's true, people do, and I was really afraid of that.

No I'm not (thankfully), but that process from embarrassed to not embarrassed was really gradual and just not something that I did on purpose. I just ended up surrounding myself with people that accepted that fact.

[phoenixpyre]

Don't shoot me, but I am atheist...


I think all the churches is silly too. I used to live in the bible belt. LITERALLY a different church or two every quarter mile



edit//

and i mean like a different denomination for each church as well

[*Podomaht*]

GOD HATES FAGS


OH AND SWEDEN TOO