Global Warming, the real deal, or propaganda? Options

[kimmytree]

With our nation's politics so split, it seems like just as many people that believe in Global Warming think its a lie. What are your views on it? Are we really damaging our Environment with our huge production of carbon dioxide? Or are scientists and enviromentalists simply exaggerating?

I was flipping through my Chemistry book today in class, and found a very interesting section on Global Warming. It's an A Beka Book, published by a Christian college... last updated in 2000. I completely disagree with what the book says, but I thought it'd be interesting to share and debate on.

Global Warming
Recently, some scientists have speculated that mankind's production of CO2 (from fossil fuel combustion, agriculture, and cement manufacturing) may significantly enhance the greenhouse effect, causing average global temperatures to rise. Although man's annual contribution of CO2ot the environment is far smaller than nature's (roughly 7 billion tons vs. 200 billion tons), these scientists worry that this small increase may cause unpredictable changes in the global climate. Environmental activists have gone much further, predicting global flooding, disease epidemics, mass famine, and even the extinction of the human race if drastic action is not taken to slash CO2 emissions.

Earth's climate history
Actually, mankind's effects on the global climate are probably far smaller than some would like to think. Although the earth's climate is not well understood, the science of climatology has shown that the earth's climate tends to fluctuate over long term cycles. For example, between AD 900 and AD 1100, a period climatologists call the Medieval Climate Optimum or Medieval Warm Period, global temperatures are thought to have been significantly warmer than at present. The weather was so mild that grapes and citrus fruits were grown in England; the Vikings established successful farms and colonies in Greenland; and the Anasazi Indians built a large agriculture-based civilization on the Colorado Plateau (which was then characterized by a warm, moist climate). By the 1300's, however, global temperatures dropped sharply, plunging the world into a period called the Little Ice Age. The Vikings' crops and livestock in Greenland began to fail, the colonists died, and the island became covered with ice. Widespread exhaustion and malnutrition due to poor weather and crop failures left Europe vulnerable to huge plague epidemics that killed millions of people. Cooler, drier weather on the Colorado Plateau spelled the end of the Anasazi civilization in America, while at the same time the Thames River near London froze over in the winter with ice thick enough to support annual "ice fairs." In the years to come, the unusually cold winters would cause great hardship for early American colonists. About 1850, the climate began to warm once again, gradually ending the Little Ice Age; by the early 20th century, citrus fruits were being grown in the United States as far north as the Carolinas. This warming continued until 1938 or so, when temperatures leveled off and began to drop once again (probably related to ta decline in solar output). As late as the 1970's, unusually cold winters prompted environmental activists to call for drastic government action to save the planet from "global cooling" and an imminent Ice Age. In the late 1980'sand 1990's, temperatures once again began to climb (corresponding to an increase in solar output), prompting renewed calls to save the planet - this time for global warming.

The Kyoto Protocol
The United Nations responded to fears of global warming by convening a 1992 "Earth Summit" in Rio de Janiero, Brazil. Under the direction of radical environmentalist Maurice Strong, leaders of 150 nations drafted the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, which called for nations to "voluntarily" clash CO2 emissions, at great cost, to 1990 levels. In 1995, at a second UN conference in Berlin, developing nations voted to exempt themselves from any restrictions while approving mandatory CO2 cutbacks for developed nations such as the United States. These mandatory cutbacks were later incorporated into an amendment to the Freamework Convention called the Kyoto Protocol, drafted in Kyoto, Japan, in December 1998.

The Kyoto Protocol demands that the United States reduce its CO2 emissions to 7% below 1990 levels by the year 2010 (a 30-40% reduction below estimated 2010 levels). It also calls for restrictions on hydrofluorocarbons and perfluorocarbons, methane, nitrous oxide, and sulfur hexafluoride.

Interestingly, most other nations fare far better under the treaty than the United States. China, Singapore, Mexico, and many other rapidly industrializing nations are specifically exempted from the Protocol, while the nations of Western Europe are allowed to count the shutdown of pullution-emitting Communist factories in Eastern Europe in the early 1990's as if they were cutbacks in their own CO2 production.

Costs of Kyoto
Proponents of the Kyoto Protocol have argued that slashing CO2 emissions by as much as 40% below estimated 2010 levels will have little if any economic cost. The Clinton Administration estimated that the only noticeable effect would be an increase in gasoline prices of 6-8 cents per gallon, while some environmentalists have even argued that the treaty will save money and jobs. However, since the treaty lays heavy burdens on U.S. industries while copletely exempting most overseas industries, it is likely that it will only accelerate the flight of energy-intensive U.S. industries to other nations, with the inevitable loss of American jobs. Some critics predict that by 2010, the Kyoto Protocol could result in the loss of 2.4 million U.S. jobs and cost the average family as much as $2700 per year in price increases and losti ncome. Energy shortages like those of the 1970s may once again become commonplace, particularly if environmentalists continue to obstruct the construction of new nuclear plants.

Possible benefits of rising CO2
These huge costs are particularly ironic in the light of the fact that increased CO2 levels (and even global warming, should it occur) would likely be a net benefit to mankind. It is a known fact that plants grow much more efficiently at higher CO2 concentrations; if the CO2 content of the air is experimentally doubled, crop yields increase up to 50% while requiring much less water and fertilizer. In addition, history reveals that periods of warmer average global temperatures tend to be associated with better living conditions for humanity as a whole. During the medieval Climate Optimum (when average global temperatures were 6-9 degrees warmer than at present), average life expectancies increased significantly due to reduced disease, higher crop yields, and better nutrition. The global cooling that ended this period (the Little Ice Age), by contrast, was associated with a 10-year drop in average life expectancies.

Looking ahead
Unfortunately, the Kyoto Protocol seems to reflect a "ready-fire-aim" approach that characterizes many environmental issues. Although the fate of the treaty is not yet certain, it is likely that the global warming debated will continue for some time to come. As Christians, however, we can be certain that "while the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and sumer and winter, and day and night shall not cease" (Genesis 8:22). Although we should do all within our power to protect the world God has given us, we must always remember that the fate of the earth rests in the hands of its Creator.

That last paragraph scares me the most... the idea that the earth will only cease to exist when God's ready for it to. The first few paragraphs just lead up to global warming... most of the bizzare content is in the last two paragraphs.

Agree, or disagree on the book's claims? Discuss.

[tokyo-rose]

I definitely believe that global warming exists. People who think it doesn't have probably been somewhat brainwashed (for lack of a better word). I've read that there's been evidence of global warming ever since factories started growing in great numbers during the Industrial Revolution, and temperatures nowadays are significantly warmer than they're supposed to be. They have been for the past several years. Global warming is not a lie.

[Simba]

Well, yeah, the temperature change is evident and is as good as fact. I guess the only problem though is how much we did to contribute to the temperature changes and whether or not we can do anything about it.

[kimmytree]

Yeah, I think global warming is the real deal. But even if scientists are totally wrong, the pollution still has to be damaging something. There's no way its good for the environment. We've only been producing carbon dioxide and other pollutants for a hundred years or so... so I dont think that's enough time for someone to say that its not hurting anything.

Wow, I cant believe a topic hasnt been made on this until now.

[itsnever4ever]

I believe that global warming is a HUGE problem today, and if we do not fix it soon, it will reach the point of no return.

[Kontroll]

Global warming isn't going to happen. The average temperature over the past 100 years has only changed only about 1 1/2 to 2 degrees.

Like you said... Nature has a bigger affect on the environment than humans do.

[kimmytree]

^ Well, I dont know if the temperature you say is accurate... but if it is, two degrees is a big deal. Enviromentalists arent saying it's going to be an immediate thing - it'll be gradual. You and I wont be effected by it, but our children and grandchildren will. We're creating more pollution now than we were fifty or a hundred years ago, so we really dont know the full effects yet, or how much we're actually changing temperatures.

Even if it really is two degrees every hundred years, and we create the same amount of pollution we are now or have in the past, after five hundred years thats TEN DEGREES. That's major. That would cause the ice caps to melt even more than they are now, and raise our water levels. Freaking Orlando would be like Tampa is now. And that's just water. What about Hurricanes? The warmer the water, the more intense they are. And what about animals living in places like Anartica, Alaska, and other frigid places? It wont be cold enough for them to survive.

Even if you decide not to believe anything I just said, which is what many scientists believe, pollution still has to have some type of negative effect. I dont think anyone can deny that.

We have the technology to slow it down, so why not? How hard is it for someone to drive even just a more fuel efficient vehicle? And with everything going on with the Middle East, relying on more nuclear power instead of oil would be a win-win situation. No more having to depend on other countries, who hate us to begin with, for oil. What if they decided to cut us off all of a sudden? Our nation would completely shut down. But with nuclear power, we wouldnt really have to worry about it. Sure, we'd still need some oil, but we'd be able to eliminate alot of it. And, nuclear power plants dont pollute.

[sweetangel2128]

Global warming is a possibility, heck anything is possible. Global warming may not happen in the next few years or even when me or you are still alive, it could be thousands of years from now if the Earth is still here.

[kimmytree]

^ Yes. But, global warming is the slow process of it happening. So in a sense, its happening right now.

[Joss-eh-lime]

Although the earth's climate is not well understood, the science of climatology has shown that the earth's climate tends to fluctuate over long term cycles. For example, between AD 900 and AD 1100, a period climatologists call the Medieval Climate Optimum or Medieval Warm Period, global temperatures are thought to have been significantly warmer than at present.

thats pretty interesting...
i still think global warming is real, and its affecting us
a couple of days ago i had to bring my umbrella and today i wore a tank top & flip flops...its crazy.

& beside that point we are using up earths resources really fast, and i hear in 50 or so years there will be no more oil?! yeah..maybe the earth IS comgin to an end.

[sweetangel2128]

^ Yes. But, global warming is the slow process of it happening. So in a sense, its happening right now.

Yes, I know, I am just saying that it could be thousands of years before it actually happens since it's such a slow process.

[kimmytree]

Yeah, that's definately a possibility. But if we already know that the earth's temperature has gone up two degrees over the past hundred years... why wouldnt it be sooner? A thousand years from now at the same rate would be 20 degrees.

[sweetangel2128]

Yeah, that's definately a possibility. But if we already know that the earth's temperature has gone up two degrees over the past hundred years... why wouldnt it be sooner? A thousand years from now at the same rate would be 20 degrees.

Your right, it could happen sooner, we don't know that for sure. For all we know it might not ever happen.

[Amaranthus]

a little bit of both I believe

[kimmytree]

a little bit of both I believe

Why so? Do you feel like Environmentalists, like Al Gore, are exaggerating?

[Mystic Eyes]

Global warming is for real whether you like it or not. I mean seriously when you see smoke and smog coming out of factories and roof tops do you think it looks healthy for the environment. It was soo obvious to me that it was messing up the environment.

What's soo pathetic is that only now since some scientists are putting pressure on governments and proving to them that global warming is a real threat has people in general and governments actually taken notice. Before no one cared but now they do cuz they all want to save there own skin.

Also there's this attitude still about in people which is "I don't care since it won't effect me".

[kimmytree]

Also there's this attitude still about in people which is "I don't care since it won't effect me".

I hate it when people think like that. Especially people who are educated enough to know better. They just dont want anything to be an incovenience to them. Even if the effects of global warming will never affect them personally, its going to affect their children and grandchildren. Is that not enough to make them care? How selfish. Thats why we really need a Democrat to win in 08. With them having control of both the White House and the Senate / Congress, everything that needs to be passed concerning global warming will be. Thank God.

[Mystic Eyes]

I know how you feel kimmytree. But the truth is, that people mostly have a stupid attitude like "Rather you than me".

Soo when you measure it all up, the world is doomed. Why? Because there will always be those who don't care and if they do then it's only to save themselves. Lets not forget that this won't only effect us but the whole animal kingdom but people don't care of course.

The answer = cutting people's genitals off until they do something.

Yes, black mail is a beautiful thing

[kimmytree]

^ Lmao, I dont know about cutting them off. But yeah, you're right. But jeez, so many people dont "get" what's really going on. It's just so frustrating. :/

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

I know how you feel kimmytree. But the truth is, that people mostly have a stupid attitude like "Rather you than me".

Soo when you measure it all up, the world is doomed. Why? Because there will always be those who don't care and if they do then it's only to save themselves. Lets not forget that this won't only effect us but the whole animal kingdom but people don't care of course.

The answer = cutting people's genitals off until they do something.

Yes, black mail is a beautiful thing

God bless the eunuchs, for they shall inherit the Earth.

[Laughsalot]

i remember watching something on national geographic that like global warming had something to do with the whole current of the ocean. i can't remember what it's called.but it connects the whole ocean together.

[moorepocket]

i didn't thought of it, until my friend told me about it. The glaciers are already melting

[Mystic Eyes]

^ Lmao, I dont know about cutting them off. But yeah, you're right. But jeez, so many people dont "get" what's really going on. It's just so frustrating. :/

Yeah, it's sad but what can you do. Humans are selfish creatures.

Hmm, how about we go on a crusade to save this planet. And if that by some miracle fails then there's always plan D (Death)

[NYCin2009]

Oh, global warming is real alright.

Most people who refuse to accept the fact that is happening are usually the ones who just don't want to have to think about doing anything to stop it.

[ashleybby]

i am not sure if it is real or not. i do believe that all the pollution and smog is affecting the world tho.

but someone pointed it out that the world goes through times when it heats up then cools down
like there was the ice age, and then it melted...
ah i dont know. i havent done any research or anything
but i just thought i would point it out that warming and cooling has been happening for a loooong time.
just a thought. haha idk.

but i am against all this smog. in vegas, its really gross because you can see it in the air.
"/

[kimmytree]

^ Most of the pollution we produce from factories and stuff I believe is carbon dioxide. Even if global warming turns out to be untrue, we're still damaging our earth with all the pollution we're creating. To me, just like a smoker is killing their lungs... we're killing our ozone layer.

[stormbringer]

Oh, global warming is real alright.

Most people who refuse to accept the fact that is happening are usually the ones who just don't want to have to think about doing anything to stop it.

yeahh.. like all those factories in china and all.. they give off so much pollution and nobody really cares..

[*steve330*]

Well, yeah, the temperature change is evident and is as good as fact. I guess the only problem though is how much we did to contribute to the temperature changes and whether or not we can do anything about it.

Omg someone smart. :D

To summarize global warming (coming from someone working in an environmental company and someone who wrote a 7 page report on global warming):

Global warming is happening, sure. Earth gets warmer every day. Are we causing it? No. Are we contributing? Sure. Like 2%. Mt. Pinatubo (in the Philipines) erupted in the 80's, putting out more emissions than mankind had SINCE the industrial revolution. We're polluting and whatnot, but we're not causing it. The earth warms up and cools down on a cycle. It was considerably hotter during the medieval times. The united states got scared that we were going into another ice age in the 60's/70's. Global warming is just a fad to talk about. If you've noticed, they stopped calling it global warming and now refer to it as climate change.

If you care to argue the point, I'd be more than willing to argue with you in a constructive manner and I'd even send you my report.

[dustbunny]

WOW i am so glad there is this topic on createblog. *HUGS TOPIC

anyways i'm one of those hardcore do-something-about-the-friggen-environment-you-people-people.

i try to create awareness about global warming and our affects on it as much as possible, but it really shocks me to see how many people out there 1. don't believe in global warming 2. don't think global warming is affected by humans or 3. think global warming just has nothing to do with them

WATCH THIS VIDEO. it's 40 minutes long but hey its summer we have nothing better to do right? its pretty much about how many of the scientists who say global warming isn't happening, are the same ones that were used by tobacco companies to say that cigarettes had nothing to do with cancer. mmhmm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=522784499045867811

[31miracles]

yeahh.. like all those factories in china and all.. they give off so much pollution and nobody really cares..

uhh China looks like an angel compared to the United States. So don't just say China, because then you would sound ignorant.

the bottomline is, the United States is the world's biggest polluter, by FARRRRR. If we are going to slow down global warming, the United States has to be the first to act. I took a whole college course on this.

169 countries are under the Kyoto Protocol (an international treaty to reduce pollution), exceptions: the UNITED STATES who refused to join and Austrialla. Guess who abides by the Kyoto Protocol... China.

Examples: (Stats from the EPA)
With only about 4.6% of the world's population, United States produces...
29 percent of the world's nitrate emissions
41 percent of the world's methane
20 percent of the world's formaldehyde
23 percent of the world's arsenic
17 percent of the world's carbon monoxide
As you can see, the United States pollutes way more than their "fair share".

Another example: China's main heating is from coal. In the U.S., coal is not the main source of heat. But guess what, it is estimated that 18 Chinese people use the amount of coal of 1 American.


The United States and China by far are the leaders in carbon dioxide emissions. Today, the United States emitts more carbon dioxide than China, but China is predicted to overtake in the future. Why this graph is deceptive, because China has over four times more people than the United States.

So I'm saying, let's not point fingers, especially at China, but if we were to point fingers, it would be the United States.

[31miracles]

As for my view on global warming, I believe that there is no way we can stop it. Humans, especially Americans because they pollute the most and Bush refuses to joing the Kyoto Protocol =[), will not be willing to change their style of life. Pollution is only going to get worse. Plus, the rise in carbon levels (which cause global warming) can also be nature. From the fossil records, we can see that the carbon levels are always seesawing, just that today, it's rising at a quicker rate.

I believe that we, humans, should spend our efforts and money on adapting to the new planet rather than trying to stop global warming.

[*steve330*]

You're f**king stupid if you thought it a good idea to sign the Kyoto Protocols.

[31miracles]

You're f**king stupid if you thought it a good idea to sign the Kyoto Protocols.

your reason?

yea I know the United States couldn't sign it, because it would be impossible for the to follow it. But still, the United States could have sign it under special conditions to show thhat the US is serious about reducing pollution.

and what's with the swearing. I'm can be immature too, f**k YOU

[kimmytree]

You're f**king stupid if you thought it a good idea to sign the Kyoto Protocols.

Wtf? Who the hell do you think you are?

Bush and his little cronies would probably rather die than sign something like that. Who do you think halfway ownes Halliburton? CHENEY. So of course our current administration is against it. They've all got people in their back pockets who would suffer if we actually signed it.

So what's your reason for being against it? What, are you a Republican or something?

[RyanWasHere]

Global warming is a myth.

[*steve330*]

Wtf? Who the hell do you think you are?

Bush and his little cronies would probably rather die than sign something like that. Who do you think halfway ownes Halliburton? CHENEY. So of course our current administration is against it. They've all got people in their back pockets who would suffer if we actually signed it.

So what's your reason for being against it? What, are you a Republican or something?

I don't consider myself a Republican. I do, however, consider myself heavily conservative. That aside.

The Kyoto protocols would have had such a blow to the American industry. It would have reduced what they're allowed to do to such an extent that our output would have fallen way below everyone else's. Meanwhile, third world countries or developing countries (most notably China and India) had no restrictions on them whatsoever. Because of that, more and more jobs would leave America and go overseas where they can pay them very little and have abused workers to get the goods they want. The higher ups wouldn't have taken the hit like all the workers in factory related jobs. The unemployment rate would have gone way up due to the Kyoto protocols.

I should not have simply called you f**king stupid, but at the time I didn't have time to explain why the Kyoto protocols were so bad.

[31miracles]

I don't consider myself a Republican. I do, however, consider myself heavily conservative. That aside.

The Kyoto protocols would have had such a blow to the American industry. It would have reduced what they're allowed to do to such an extent that our output would have fallen way below everyone else's. Meanwhile, third world countries or developing countries (most notably China and India) had no restrictions on them whatsoever. Because of that, more and more jobs would leave America and go overseas where they can pay them very little and have abused workers to get the goods they want. The higher ups wouldn't have taken the hit like all the workers in factory related jobs. The unemployment rate would have gone way up due to the Kyoto protocols.

I should not have simply called you f**king stupid, but at the time I didn't have time to explain why the Kyoto protocols were so bad.

Ok so yes it would hurt United States industry. But can you explain to me why 4.6% of the humans(the US) has the right to emmit over a quarter of the world's pollutants?

[*steve330*]

I'm not saying it's right to pollute at that scale. I also don't think that in order to try to right this wrong we should cripple our industry. I think another method should be looked into if people care that strongly about it.

[Kontroll]

I definitely believe that global warming exists. People who think it doesn't have probably been somewhat brainwashed (for lack of a better word). I've read that there's been evidence of global warming ever since factories started growing in great numbers during the Industrial Revolution, and temperatures nowadays are significantly warmer than they're supposed to be. They have been for the past several years. Global warming is not a lie.

whose to say that you weren't brain washed?

[kimmytree]

I don't consider myself a Republican. I do, however, consider myself heavily conservative. That aside.

The Kyoto protocols would have had such a blow to the American industry. It would have reduced what they're allowed to do to such an extent that our output would have fallen way below everyone else's. Meanwhile, third world countries or developing countries (most notably China and India) had no restrictions on them whatsoever. Because of that, more and more jobs would leave America and go overseas where they can pay them very little and have abused workers to get the goods they want. The higher ups wouldn't have taken the hit like all the workers in factory related jobs. The unemployment rate would have gone way up due to the Kyoto protocols.

I should not have simply called you f**king stupid, but at the time I didn't have time to explain why the Kyoto protocols were so bad.

How so? It's not like we produce that much to begin with... we import most of our goods. Hahah, that's funny. American jobs going overseas is already happening. Most of our clothing, vehicles, furniture, electronics, and other items are made overseas. Most Americans dont work in factories, so I really dont understand how that would create a higher unemployment rate.

Did you know... alot of American cars cant be sold in Europe, because of their higher standards reguarding fuel economy and emissions? We have the technology to meet stricter requirements reguarding the vehicles we make... meeting those requirements would in no way hurt the American industry.

And if we built more nuclear power plants - that would dramatically cut down on emissions. And that's another thing that wouldnt hurt our economy. Nuclear power is safe, and doesnt create any pollution. My Dad is constantly moving around the country working at different ones, when they are shut down for repairs. Regular power plants produce alot of pollution. They require just as many workers as a regular plant, so that's another thing that wouldnt hurt the American industry.

So what makes you think the unemployment rate would rise and the industry would be hurt?

I'm not saying it's right to pollute at that scale. I also don't think that in order to try to right this wrong we should cripple our industry. I think another method should be looked into if people care that strongly about it.

So money's more important than the environment? What method do you suggest then?
We're one of the largest, most powerful, and prosperous nations in the world - but we're insisting on just sitting back and doing nothing. Alot of Americans could care less what the price to pay is in the future, because it wont effect us.

[*Moderator*]

I don't believe in man made global warming. The world has gone through its own self destruction every hundreds of years, no? Such as the ice age. I think this is just another cleansing of the earth. The earth will heat up, and then grow back and start fresh.

[Mulder]

^how can you believe that, with the drastic changes that started with the Industrial Revolution?
It's silly to believe that that had no effect on the environment.

[31miracles]

^how can you believe that, with the drastic changes that started with the Industrial Revolution?
It's silly to believe that that had no effect on the environment.

as I wrote a few posts above, the carbon level of the planet is always seesawing. I think this rise is mostly natural, with little to insignificant human causes. I do believe that humans are speeding the rising carbon rate a little, but there is no way to stop it. Admit it, you would not change your lifestyle. Imagine having to take a bus everywhere, be on a "food stamp" system for everything, going to the supermaket everyday (which happens in a lot of other countries) to buy food fresh in order to avoid packaging. As I stated a few post ago, America pollutes the most, by far, and ther is no way we Americans will change our style of life. Pollution is only going to get worse. We should use focus our efforts on adapting to a wearmer planet instead of slowing down global warming.

[Chickkabooh]

Lmao KIM!
I was just looking at new posts...and I actually made it to the bottom of the page when I realized and saw the name Kimmytree


Global Warming is real.


=]

[*Moderator*]

As someone stated above, the carbon level is always seesawing and I think that the earth's odd temperatures are normal. Of course, we're not gonna automatically stop doing the things that pollute the earth and quite frankly we never will. I don't know what to believe but I don't believe its manmade global warming either. The world will overheat on its own.

[*steve330*]

The people such as the one right before me have got it right. As I've previously stated, we're not the cause of global warming. Sure we're polluting, but that's not a very significant change in the earth's temperatures. Oh noes we're putting out carbon emissions! Then how come it was even hotter than it is now in the medieval times? How come a couple decades ago people were worried about being delved into another ice age? How come all the media whores stopped calling it global warming and now refer to it as 'climate change'?

[31miracles]

The people such as the one right before me have got it right. As I've previously stated, we're not the cause of global warming. Sure we're polluting, but that's not a very significant change in the earth's temperatures. Oh noes we're putting out carbon emissions! Then how come it was even hotter than it is now in the medieval times? How come a couple decades ago people were worried about being delved into another ice age? How come all the media whores stopped calling it global warming and now refer to it as 'climate change'?

uhh that's pretty much what I said before the post when you called me "f**king stupid" =)

[*steve330*]

No I said that regarding the kyoto protocol.

You're f**king stupid if you thought it a good idea to sign the Kyoto Protocols.

[xKatt]

As someone stated above, the carbon level is always seesawing and I think that the earth's odd temperatures are normal. Of course, we're not gonna automatically stop doing the things that pollute the earth and quite frankly we never will. I don't know what to believe but I don't believe its manmade global warming either. The world will overheat on its own.

Agreed to the extent that the earth's temperatures fluctuate and that it is beyond human control.

I believe that we are creating holes in the ozone layer. Sure it's bad, sure we're worrying, but quite frankly, no one's doing anything about it!!
Right now, people are taking on the mindframe of "Well ... since nothing's going to happen until after I'm dead, I won't take immediate action for it."
And what's the chance that we'll abort the oil business, factories, steam engine trains, steam boats, cars, smoking, anything that contributes to air pollution for the sake of something that will happen "sometime in the future". Even if global warming is proven true, are we really going to stop thounsands of industries? We have lives to live. The world must continue to turn, polar ice caps or not!
Even if global warming isn't true, I think the commotion should be a wakeup call to those severely polluting the earth.
Global warming could happen if we don't take precautions (if it isn't already happening).

[st3ev0]

it Could happen but it won't be because of us. We may cause the earth to raise up .3 degrees.

Also people should get their heads out of their asses if they think hybrids are "green." The cost of making a hybrid far outweighs the emissions they don't put out. In order to make the battery alone for the hybrid cars:
A. Mine nickel in ontario (the mining plants put out so much smog that it causes acid rain which has in turn killed the surrounding forests. They then tried to disperse that pollution to lessen it but it just spread the same amount further over canada. green imo)
B. Ship it to england for refining (refineries put out tons of smog/pollution)
C. Ship it to china to be refined further into nickel foam (more refining?)
D. Ship it to japan to be made into batteries in their battery making plants (more factory type stuff)
E. Ship it back to the US to be put into cars in the honda/toyota/ford/chevy/nissan plants

[medic]

I agree with global warming, but I do not agree with the fact that HUMANS are to blame for it. We only produce a FRACTION of the carbon in the atmosphere, and by that I mean single digits of giga tons. Also, the scientists doing most of the studies who were with it in the begging are now against it, I wonder why?

Rotting leaves from trees create more carbon a year than the human factor to the world, that includes cars, and all of the things told to be causing global warming to SKYROCKET.

Professor Ian Clark says it the best, "You can't say CO2 will drive the climate, it certainly never did in the past."

Also I love Al Gores complete stance on it, that the melting ice caps will kill us all. He mentions Greenland's under continental currents, and well what he says is not true, he mis used the data given to him to further the scare factor of his movie.

"The Great Global Warming Swindle" worth every penny.

Also, I would like to point out the scientist who first STARTED studying Global Warming is against it, why? Because the media and the government agencies have turned it into a money game, thousands of jobs rely on funding to research something that is not happening.

All a "Inconvenient Truth" has going for it is a few maybe "What ifs."

[*steve330*]

^bing bing bing bing bing bing!

Scientists who are coming out and saying that Global Warming is happening are all being funded by the government and in order to get those funds they're telling the government that they're going to look into things that the government wants to hear. They're not going to say we need the money so we can prove that global warming isn't really happening as y'all say it is. The government refuses to admit wrong in many regards. That's why recently they've gone from calling it 'global warming' to 'climate change' haha.

[medic]

Global Warming is one of many touchy subjects I speak on, and I am totally against Al Gores propaganda he spreads in his movies, he flat out LIES about a deciding factor of ice caps malting. Wanna know why? Because if he told the truth, you would realize it makes no sense, what he is promoting in his slide show would show the complete opposite if you knew the complications of the atmosphere, CO2, water warming and other factors. He doesn't tell you those factors, because if he did, his entire presentation would then be a public lie.

[cjyoshiruler]

this is a very big deal. and its getting worse rom pollution.

[illriginal]

Well... it's either global warming or evolutionary. Lets just hope it's global warming and we can fix it. Cuz if it's evolutionary, we're lookin at another age of the dinosaurs :x

[cjyoshiruler]

lol

[medic]

Well... it's either global warming or evolutionary. Lets just hope it's global warming and we can fix it. Cuz if it's evolutionary, we're lookin at another age of the dinosaurs :x

Accept the dinosaurs died from a meteor hitting the earth and blocking the sun out. This would actually be the complete opposite if what they are saying what we are doing to the earth is happening. We would die from it being too hot, not too cold. So the complete opposite yes.

Also, the sun will blow up in a few million years anyway, so the end of earth will happen, we just wont be around to see it.

[illriginal]

Accept the dinosaurs died from a meteor hitting the earth and blocking the sun out. This would actually be the complete opposite if what they are saying what we are doing to the earth is happening. We would die from it being too hot, not too cold. So the complete opposite yes.

Also, the sun will blow up in a few million years anyway, so the end of earth will happen, we just wont be around to see it.

Well there's two theories goin on. Global Warming and Global Cooling.

There's also another theory that the earth is gonna flip. North Pole will be south, and south pole will be north.

What I meant about the dinosaurs was, human life will expire once everything freezes over. Not because of comets :D

[S-Majere]

No such thing as Global Warming. At least not of the scale most politicians want us to believe.

My own view is that Global Warming is a convenient cover for just how low our natural finite resources are getting. It's also a fabulous method of social control.

But we wouldn't be bothered about that - as it won't happen in our lifetime; but Global Warming? That's a very 'now' thing. Quick! Terrify the populace!

There's not even any confirmed evidence that Global Warming exists. No two scientists or institutions are in agreement. Where's the evidence?

As Tamacracker has said, in the late 70's the concern was over Global Cooling. Ironic, huh?

There's some great resources for anyone interested at www.globalwarmingisafarce.com

[*steve330*]

^Yar.

I don't think it's so much a cover up for the dwindling down of finite natural resources though. I think it's something for Al Gore to do. If he really cared he'd tear down his house and move into something much smaller, instead of something that uses 20 times the national average.

Also there are so many factors that everyone leaves out. A recent one I found out about is with the increasing landfill technology, they're absorbing more and more carbon, which is going to omg stop global warming

Bleh.

[brooklyneast05]

There's not even any confirmed evidence that Global Warming exists. No two scientists or institutions are in agreement. Where's the evidence?

then u clearly do not read science journals
not to mention the latest IPCC report, which was written and reviewed by thousands of scientist around the world, who are ironically in agreement.

everyone needs to go read the report Smoke Mirrors and Hot Air, besides being extremely interesting, u'll see who's really doing the "covering up".

people can argue all day over whether they think the increase in temperature ( which is proven, and supported by evidence) is because of humans or natural. i don't see why we wouldn't put effort into more environmentally safe practices, what is there to lose by playing the safe side?

so what if u dont KNOW FOR SURE that it's going to be a problem in ur lifetime, u dont KNOW FOR SURE that ur gonna need car or health insurance but u still buy it don't u.

[S-Majere]

I wrote a paper on this and did hours of research; INCLUDING scientific journals.

Please link me to relevant sources and back up your arguments.

http://www.john-daly.com/press/press-01b.htm#cru
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0118/p02s01-usgn.html
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/articl...?ContentID=5300

[brooklyneast05]

man this topic was closed last time i tried to reply
ANYWAY
ur first link is by john daly, the opinion of ONE man

ur second link
because the "christian science" monitor is what id really wanna quote for my scientific resources. sorry, if i had turned that into my college professor he would have laughed in my face, but i duno about urs

i was confused by the third link, it just telling how much pollution our cars put out. i dont get how thats relevant to ur argument that global warming doesn't exist and isn't a reason for concern. that whole website was in support of global warming existing and being a problem it seemed like. not skeptical so i dont know

http://www.ipcc.ch/index.html
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/scien...irrors-hot.html
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

id start out with those three links
we already know the IPCC's take on global warming, and since 1988 thats always been the leader we look to...
National Academy of Sciences
American Meteorological Society

i personally trust these GROUPS, that express an opinion reached by MANY scientists more than ONE scientists opinion, aka john daly who died in 2004

[*steve330*]

Ok look the Earth is heating up, no doubt about that. Is it natural? Yes. Medieval times were way hotter. It was cooler to an extent that they feared another ice age a few decades ago. We're actually emerging from a mini-ice age. I too wrote a 7 page paper on the topic of Global Warming, but I don't see that as a source as you probably picked the side you supported and found facts backing that up.

Yes we can clean up the environment. Yes we can do all sorts of stuff to make the air cleaner, but it's not going to stop whether or not the Earth gets hotter or colder.


edit:: and this smoke and mirrors books, who wrote it and from what perspective is it?

[brooklyneast05]

Union of Concerned Scientists



i still don't see why we wouldn't want clean air, regardless of if it effects the temperature of the earth.

[kimmytree]

Whether Global Warming exists or not, taking certain measures will be beneficial either way. Look at our gas prices, and where we have to get our oil from. By driving more fuel efficient vehicles and consuming less, thats less money we have to hand them.

And I dont see how anyone can state that pollution isnt bad for our planet and atmosphere. If its not contributing to Global Warming, its gotta be doing something. Just like when a person smokes or consumes something unnatural, it ends up hurting them in one way or another.

I still believe there's a fairly good chance that Global Warming IS real. But for me, there's still a small chance that we're wrong. But even if there was just a teeeny chance that we WERE causing it, why not take the proper precautions, just in case? The precautions people are wanting us to take are nothing major. It's not like they'd alter our way of life.

[brooklyneast05]

Whether Global Warming exists or not, taking certain measures will be beneficial either way. Look at our gas prices, and where we have to get our oil from. By driving more fuel efficient vehicles and consuming less, thats less money we have to hand them.

exactly
there's no harm in playing it safe, i think there's a ton of benefits like not depending so much on foreign countries. it seems pretty logical to me.

[kimmytree]

exactly
there's no harm in playing it safe, i think there's a ton of benefits like not depending so much on foreign countries. it seems pretty logical to me.

And as far as driving more effecient vehicles goes, the technology has been here. We already have decent effecient cars here in the US, but Europe has cars that get almost TWICE the fuel economy. I saw in a magazine awhile back about how Volkswagen has a car similar to the Rabbit / Golf over in Europe that gets like 60 or 70 mpg. But, the article added that VW will be unable to bring it overseas to the US. I dont think our government (current one at least) wants us to have more fuel efficient vehicles, because thats less money we'd spend on gas. Alot of our vehicles cant even pass the requirements to even be sold in Europe, because of their emissions and fuel economy.

Ahhh, now I'm rambling.

[*steve330*]

They also have way less people driving, more mass transportation, and weaker less-safe cars.

Btw, Global Warming is real. Is it the end of the world? no. Is it natural? yes. Was it going to happen regardless of what we did? yes. Will it eventually cool down? yes.

[brooklyneast05]

Btw, Global Warming is real. Is it the end of the world? no. Is it natural? yes. Was it going to happen regardless of what we did? yes. Will it eventually cool down? yes.

oh ok
i duno why i bother reading so much information from actual scientists when i could just asked u since u have all the answers. its much more simple this way. i wasted a ton of time
lets all go back to pumping a bunch of waste into our air and oceans and using ridiculously inefficient things. won't bother me if my children never seen blue sky

[*steve330*]

*sigh* I hate when people automatically assume that when I say what I just said that I'm also saying we should keep polluting.

Did I make up those answers? nah. I researched it all, so meh.

[brooklyneast05]

no ur right, u never said we should pollute, so i apologize for assuming that

i researched all my answers too
everyones researched all their answers
which i guess is why this topic will never go anywhere


i'm gonna stick with the IPCC and their thousands of scientist
and whoever wants can stick with their organizations, who's board members include staff members of exxon mobil

my final opinion is we should work on making things more efficient, more environmentally safe, regardless of what is causing global warming. it's not gonna hurt anything to be cleaner. i don't think people will ever agree if the rising temperature is human made or not, but there's no doubt pollution is a problem.

[*steve330*]

I agree with you for the most part. Rising temperatures, some is human induced, but the majority is not. That was one of the things I looked into. Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines erupted in the 80's and that one eruption put out more emissions than humans have since the industrial revolution. The point I'm arguing is not that we should pollute, nor should we ignore the rising temperature all together, rather we shouldn't try to stop it.

I could make arguments about the scientists on the 'Global Warming is Happening' side, but I've made that argument earlier in this thread, as well as every argument that we've just discussed.

[kimmytree]

I agree with you for the most part. Rising temperatures, some is human induced, but the majority is not. That was one of the things I looked into. Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines erupted in the 80's and that one eruption put out more emissions than humans have since the industrial revolution. The point I'm arguing is not that we should pollute, nor should we ignore the rising temperature all together, rather we shouldn't try to stop it.

I could make arguments about the scientists on the 'Global Warming is Happening' side, but I've made that argument earlier in this thread, as well as every argument that we've just discussed.

How can we be so sure of how much we have and have not induced? The earth is millions of years old, but we've only been polluting for the past 100 - 150 years or so.

What if we can help stop it? Better safe than sorry, right?

They also have way less people driving, more mass transportation, and weaker less-safe cars.

Less people driving is a good thing. Heck, the roads are overcrowded enough as it is. 50 years ago families didnt have 2 and 3 vehicles like they do today. Mass transportation is also a good thing. If I lived in a larger city like Chicago or something, I'd definitely use it. But weaker cars? Where do you get that from? I dont think car manufacturers are doing that to get better mileage - its out of cheapness. It's more profitable for them to make a car cheaper and sell it at a regular price. Compare cars today to ones from like 20 years ago. Today they're lighter, flimsier, and not as quality made.

And oh, a vehicles weight isnt the only thing that contributes to better fuel economy.

[*steve330*]

I know it's not the only thing that contributes to fuel economy. I'll find other info regarding cars later.

Regarding the first response, I'll go get an interview from my boss on monday. He's a geologist, maybe he knows a thing or two.

[xtwitchyx]

I personally think it's all a load of shit and I don't even pay attention to the people who like to do nothing but talk about it. It's just another scam that's going to make people paranoid and think that the end is near, or another way to get people to blow their money on things that are supposed to be "enviroment friendly".

Anyway, if you want real signs that the world is coming to an end, here's a few.
1. Spice Girls do a ruinion tour. That all on its own is frightening, but what makes it a total horror is all of the people who will probably go to see them.
2. People like Britney Spears and Nichole Richie are allowed to have kids. With mindless idiots such as those having kids, what good could possibly come of it?
3. Paris Hilton discovers God. People like that don't go seeking religion unless something horribly wrong is going to happen.

I'm sure there's plenty who will complain about this whole entire thing I am posting, but oh well. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Just out of curiousity, if someone says they believe that global warming is real or if someone says that it isn't real, won't either side believe that the other is being brain washed?

[brooklyneast05]

Just out of curiousity, if someone says they believe that global warming is real or if someone says that it isn't real, won't either side believe that the other is being brain washed?

yes
because half think its a scam, and that politicians made it up (they made up all the scientific research to go with it, of course)
and the other half think its common sense that we should take care of the planet we live on, and take into consideration the possibility that our disgusting wasteful habits might actually be having an effect on it.


even though i don't agree with on u global warming
i agree with ur three signs the world is coming to an end
its ridiculous

[*Steven*]

yes
because half think its a scam, and that politicians made it up (they made up all the scientific research to go with it, of course)

But you have to take into account the scientists doing the research, and whose funding them. I know it can sound conspiracy-like, but in today's day and age money can do almost anything.

[brooklyneast05]

But you have to take into account the scientists doing the research, and whose funding them. I know it can sound conspiracy-like, but in today's day and age money can do almost anything.

yea thats true
and goes both ways

[brooklyneast05]

Why do you think that humans arn't to blame?

Here's my way of looking at it.

Eliminate humans, before global warming existed. What do you have... No humans, and no global warming. Bring back humans, and you have global warming.

hmmmm, well more like humans now
since the industrial revolution

[*Steven*]

But take into account that volcanoes exploding put out more emissions and stuff than we have SINCE the industrial revolution.

Also we sequester way more carbon nowadays nehow, what with lawn mowing, house building causing new trees to be planted, landfills, etc etc.

[xtwitchyx]

I've heard that in a sense we need the whole global warming thing. I can't remember why, but I know there was some thing about something bad happening if we didn't have it or whatever. Idk, the whole thing just annoys me.

[*Steven*]

^Huh?

Why would it be necessary?

[Peanups]

First off, I know basically zilch about this topic, so please,, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong in anything I say.

So from what i understand, Global warming deals with how the ice caps are melting, correct?

personally i think it is just a cycle that the earth goes through regularly, I mean how could we know or not, its not like people 1,000 years ago could record stuff like that, though there is probably some scientific methods that can be applied to discovered if something like this has happened or not.

Yeah, regular cycle

[brooklyneast05]

So from what i understand, Global warming deals with how the ice caps are melting, correct?

it has to do with way more than this.
and yes there are methods to determine temperatures years and years back, longer than we have been accurately recording them

no offense, but if the only thing u know is that ice caps are melting u probably shouldn't debate on this subject =/


i understand that it could be a cycle, but i don't understand the reasoning of not doing anything and just waiting it out to see. because then what if we get screwed. like i said in a previous post, we don't buy car insurance because we are positive we're going to be in a wreck. that's just my opinion though.

[Peanups]

^ i wasn't tyring to debate, i was just adding a personal opinion, but maybe i will now

if it is such a big thing to worry about, and the effects it might have on this earth, then why isn't anyone doing anything to prevent or slow it down,, like wouldn't you think there would be a world wide panic if we knew that this earth may not be functionable within an alotted amount of time?

"We've all heard the stories, reported as indisputable fact: The last century or decade is just about the hottest the world has ever been. Carbon dioxide from burning gasoline and coal is blamed. Unless their solution is enacted right now, temperatures will rise terribly in the next century. Icecaps will start to melt, coasts will flood, storms will get worse, diseases will spread, animals will die, and more. And it's all because of us Americans.

The best lies contain a measure of truth. Yes, carbon dioxide in the air has increased in the last century due to the use of fossil fuels. Yes, global average temperature has increased 0.8 degrees F in the same century. Unfortunately, the temperature increase came first: most of the temperature increase was before 1940, and most of the new carbon dioxide was added after 1960. Would you trust a "scientist" who said the result came before the cause?

There are other problems, as well. Solar activity may be the cause of the world temperature changes. The global warmers can't explain why satellites show no temperature change in the past 20 years. The computer models that predict disaster in a century have been completely wrong for the past 20 years. And no one can agree on the side effects.

Scientific facts actually helped unravel the treaty last year. Carbon dioxide is removed from the air by various natural and manmade processes, and world leaders couldn't agree on how to credit for this. No one wanted the U.S. to get credit for removals of carbon dioxide, so negotiations faltered.

Most scientists use facts and logic to reach conclusions. It's no surprise that over 17,000 scientists and engineers have signed a petition calling for rejection of the Kyoto treaty. This overshadows any collection of scientists that have endorsed the treaty.

The global warmers have failed to prove that man has caused a problem. This hasn't stopped them from demanding we act, and act now. "

anddd

"There is no global warming. Period.

You can't find a real scientist anywhere in the world who can look you in the eye and, without hesitation, without clarification, without saying, kinda, mighta, sorta, if, and or but...say "yes, global warming is with us."

There is no evidence whatsoever to support such claims. Anyone who tells you that scientific research shows warming trends - be they teachers, news casters, Congressmen, Senators, Vice Presidents or Presidents - is wrong. There is no global warming.

Scientific research through U.S. Government satellite and balloon measurements shows that the temperature is actually cooling - very slightly - .037 degrees Celsius.

A little research into modern-day temperature trends bears this out. For example, in 1936 the Midwest of the United States experienced 49 consecutive days of temperatures over 90 degrees. There were another 49 consecutive days in 1955. But in 1992 there was only one day over 90 degrees and in 1997 only 5 days.

Because of modern science and improved equipment, this "cooling" trend has been most accurately documented over the past 18 years. Ironically, that's the same period of time the hysteria has grown over dire warnings of "warming."

Changes in global temperatures are natural. There is no proof that temperature is affected by anything that man has done.

In fact, recent severe weather has been directly attributed to a natural phenomenon that occurs every so often called El Nino. It causes ocean temperatures to rise as tropical trade winds actually reverse for a time.

The resulting temperature changes cause severe storms, flooding and even draught on every continent on earth. "

there was more to the article that i personally don't agree with,
i checked on google, and not to be trusting of the internet, for yes, it does contain many lies, but all but one article on the front page it looked like said Global Warming was actually occuring.

[brooklyneast05]

that article is by William Robert Johnston right?
there are MANY articles claiming the exact opposite
what makes u believe this one over other ones?
why do u think his opinion is more qualified than others?

i don't understand the last sentence about google, when i go to google and type in global warming the first page has a ton of hits on articles that support that global warming is happening

also
160 countries endorse the kyoto protocol
so honestly 17,000 scientists and engineers signing a petition against it doesn't seem like that much to me considering how huge this thing is.

[*Steven*]

I disagree with the Kyoto Protocol. I don't disagree with the idea behind it. If the United States were to sign on to it, then so much of what our industry does would be crippled. If there were a more gradual way of cleaning things up that gave the industry time to make the changes without having to worry too much about going out of business, then that would be fine with me. Also, the Kyoto Protocol exempts "developing countries", such as China, India, and North Korea. I forget the exact number but somewhere around 11 of the world's top 25 (#2, 4, and a few other low ones too) or so industrial countries were deemed as "developing".

I think you and I have come to a point where the best thing we can do is agree to disagree. Everything I can say about scientists who support the fact that global warming is happening, you could say about the ones that I use in arguments who say it's a hoax.

Also, I don't believe that we should do nothing about the environment etc, I just believe that we shouldn't halt production on everything so we can "stop global warming". I believe and will always stand by the point that the earth may be warming up, but it isn't humans who are causing it. We're just contributing on a very small scale.

[brooklyneast05]

I think you and I have come to a point where the best thing we can do is agree to disagree. Everything I can say about scientists who support the fact that global warming is happening, you could say about the ones that I use in arguments who say it's a hoax.

i agree

[jackie13xo]

global warming is a myth . i attend suffolk university in boston and we actually had a whole semester on global warming . its a myth believe me .

[*Steven*]

global warming is a myth . i attend suffolk university in boston and we actually had a whole semester on global warming . its a myth believe me .

Okay, care to fill us in on what you've learned? You must have a lot to say if you spent an entire semester on it.

[jackie13xo]

Okay, care to fill us in on what you've learned? You must have a lot to say if you spent an entire semester on it.

wow where do i even begin.....
the myth starts with a veryyyy accurate observation..... The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is rising. My teacher was awesome she was aslo wicked convincing and really knew her stuff . But yeah so at this point the cabon dioxide is now like 360 parts per million, versus 290 at the beginning of the 20th century, estimates show that it may eventually rise as high as 600 parts per million. this rise probably results from human burning of stuff like coal, oil and natural gas. the earths oceans and land holds liek 50 times as much carbon dioxide then in the atmosphere, and movement between these reservoirs of carbon dioxide is misunderstood.Especially by the media all these stupid companies want to do is make money by scaring all of us and saying blahhh this world will end when there is scientific evidence that its mearly impossible at this point in time. We have a better chanceof an astroid demolishing the planet then global warming occuring.
And for those of you who never payed attention in school and dont alr eady nkow carbon dioxide and water are greenhouse gases.they tend to admit more solar energy into the atmosphere than they allow to escape. actually, things arnt as simple as this, since these substances interact among themselves and with other aspects of the atmosphere in complex ways that are not well understood. still, it was reasonable to hypothesize that rising atmospheric carbon dioxide levels might cause atmospheric temperatures to rise. Some people predicted "global warming," which has come to mean extreme greenhouse warming of the atmosphere leading to catastrophic environmental consequences.
The global-warming hypothesis, is no longer even tenable. Scientists have been able to test it veryy carefully, and it doesn't hold up. During the past 50 years, as atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have risen, scientists have made exact measurements of atmospheric temperature. These measurements have definitively shown that major atmospheric greenhouse warming of the atmosphere is not occurring and it never will.

so yeah dont you tell me about global warming
i could write on forever about it.
its not going to happen its just the companies
making money off stupid people who dont
know what their talking about because
their too lazy to open a few books and learn the facts.

[brooklyneast05]

so yeah dont you tell me about global warming
i could write on forever about it.
its not going to happen its just the companies
making money off stupid people who dont
know what their talking about because
their too lazy to open a few books and learn the facts.

we could all write about it forever
steven and myself have both written papers on the subject (i think u said u wrote on this steven, maybe im confusing it with hybrid cars)
i mean nothing u just said hasn't already been said in this thread
we can go to a million websites and read what u just told us, and like steven said a few posts ago, we can also go to a million and read that what u just told is a lie.
shrugs
i thought if u spent a whole semester on it u were going to tell something we haven't already said

who knows, i think i might be done with this thread, because i'm not going to change my stand on it just because someones teacher convinced them it wasn't happening. i've opened books and learned facts and that's whats brought me to my conclusion. the same goes with the people who have come to the opposite conclusion as me.
i don't think either side is necessarily right.

[jackie13xo]

well that my love is why we live in america and you have a right to your own opinion and i dont pay 30,000 dollars a year to learn lies so my OPINION stands tall because i know what i've learned and i believe in it 100%.

[brooklyneast05]

well that my love is why we live in america and you have a right to your own opinion and i dont pay 30,000 dollars a year to learn lies so my OPINION stands tall because i know what i've learned and i believe in it 100%.

congrats
everyone feels that way
of course u don't pay 30,000 a year to learn lies, that would be ridiculous. if they believed they were lies, they wouldn't be telling it to u. if i thought my beliefs were a lie, i wouldn't be behind them either.

ur opinion stands tall, just like mine
we both have a lot of people who think the same as us

[jackie13xo]

agreed.

you know for a kid from brooklyn you seem pretty intelligent . are you still in school?

[brooklyneast05]

agreed.

you know for a kid from brooklyn you seem pretty intelligent . are you still in school?

i don't really consider myself a kid, i'm older than u are
yeah i'm still in school, in college
what's me being from brooklyn have to do with anything?


we should discuss this somewhere else, it's getting off the global warming topic

[jackie13xo]

oh man i meant kid as in your young && being from brooklyn theres nothing wrong with that at all actually i just meant it as new york is sorta bostons rival city so thats just how i meant it.

[jackie13xo]

but yeah global warming everyone cmon!
show some opinions!

[brooklyneast05]

oh man i meant kid as in your young && being from brooklyn theres nothing wrong with that at all actually i just meant it as new york is sorta bostons rival city so thats just how i meant it.

oh yea
i wasn't thinking about that rivalry
in that case
u suck cause ur from boston little girl!!!!!!!

alrighty, i'm going to go eat lunch now