God is the worst murderer yet you love him. Options

[Anubis_Birth]

Why do people worship this insane psychopath?

Got this list off some random site.

(In order) SAB, Brick Testament/ Number Killed/ Cummulative Total

God drowns everyone on earth (except Noah and his family) Genesis 7:23, BT 30,000,000? 30,000,000
God rains fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, killing everyone. Gen.19:24, BT 1000? 30,001,000
Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 30,001,001
Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 30,001,002
Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 30,001,003
7th Egyptian Plague: Hail Exodus 9:25, BT 30,000? 30,031,003
God kills every Egyptian firstborn child. Ex.12:29-30, BT 500,000? 30,531,003
God drowns Egyptian army Ex.14:28, BT 1000? 30,532,003
God and Moses help Joshua kill the Amalekites Ex.17:13, BT 1000? 30,533,003
For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 30,536,003
Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 30,536,005
A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 30,536,006
God burned to death an unknown number for complaining Numbers 11:1, BT 100? 30,536,106
God sent "a very great plague" for complaining about the food. Num.11:33, BT 10,000? 30,546,106
God killed those who murmured with a plague. Num.14:35-36, BT 100? 30,546,206
A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 30,546,207
Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 30,546,219
Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 30,546,469
For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 30,561,169
Massacre of the Aradites Num.21:1-3, BT 3000? 30,564,169
For complaining about the lack of food and water, God sent fiery serpents to bite the people, and many of them died. Num.21:6, BT 100? 30,564,269
God delivers the Bashanites into Moses' hands and Moses kills everyone "until there was none left alive." Num.21:34-35, BT 1000? 30,565,269
For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 30,589,269
Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 30,679,269
The slaughter of the Anakim, the childen of Esau, and the Horim Deuteronomy 2:21-22 5000? 30,684,269

God hardened the king of Heshbon's heart so that the Israelites could massacre his people. (included several cities) Dt.2:33-34, BT 3000? 30,687,269
God delievered the king of Bashan so that the Israelites could massacre his people. Dt.3:3-6 60,000? 30,747,269
Massacre of Jericho Joshua 6:21, BT 1000? 30,748,269
God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 30,748,274
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 30,760,274
God slaughters the Amorites and even chases them "along the way" as they try to escape. Joshua 10:10-11, BT 1000? 30,761,274
Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26, BT 5 30,761,279
Massacre of 7 cities Joshua 10:28-42, BT 7000? 30,768,279
God delivers the Hazorites. Joshua 11:8-12, BT 1000? 30,769,279
Massacre of the Anakim Joshua 11:20-21, BT 1000? 30,770,279
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 30,780,279
Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 30,780,280
God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 30,790,280
Massacre of the Canaanites Jg.4:15, BT 1000? 30,791,280
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 30,911,280
God delivered the Ammonites to Jephthah to slaughter. Jg.11:32-33, BT 1000? 30,912,280
The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 30,912,310
The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 30,913,310
Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 30,916,310
"The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 30,941,410
More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 30,966,410
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19, BT 50,070 31,016,480
God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12, BT 20 31,016,500
God forces the Philistine soldiers to kill each other. 1 Sam.14:20, BT 1000? 31,017,500
God orders Saul to kill every Amalekite man, women, and child. 1 Sam.15:2-3, BT 1000? 31,018,500
Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33, BT 1 31,018,501
God delivers the Philistines. 1 Sam.23:2-5 1000? 31,019,501
"The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 31,019,502
God delivers the Philistines to David (again). 2 Sam.5:19, 25 1000? 31,020,502
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 31,020,503
David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Samuel 12:14-18 1 31,020,504
God sent a three-year famine because of something Saul did. 2 Sam.21:1 5000? 31,025,504
Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 31,025,511
From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 31,095,511
A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 31,095,512
Baasha killed everyone in the house of Jeroboam "according to the saying of the Lord." 1 Kings 15:29 1000? 31,096,512
Zimri killed everyone in the house of Baasha "according to the word of the Lord." 1 Kg.16:11-12 1000? 31,097,512
God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 31,197,512
God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 31,224,512
God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 31,224,513
Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kings 1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 31,224,514
Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 31,224,616
God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 31,224,658
Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 31,224,659
God calls for a seven year famine. 2 Kg.8:1 10,000? 31,234,659
Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 31,234,660
God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 31,234,663
Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 31,419,663
Saul 1 Chronicles 10:14 1 31,419,664
God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chronicles 13:15-17 500,000 31,919,664
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 31,919,665
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 32,919,665
God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 32,919,666
God delivered the Israelites into the hand of the Chaldeans. 2 Chr.36:16-17 1000? 32,920,666
Ezekiel's wife Ezekiel 24:15-18 1 32,920,667
Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 32,920,669
Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 32,920,670



Satan just killed 10 people lol.
God killed Millions of men, women, and children.

Crazy world we live in where most people worship sick things like god.

[*I Shot JFK*]

I'm not entirely sure what it is that you want anyone to Debate with this... can you clarify what the debate is about, please?

If not, then I'll go ahead an close this.

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

Looks like anti-theist proselytizing, with little to no content to debate about at first sight.

I like how on the seventh day god created the population census, though.

[*I Shot JFK*]

Agreed.

Actually, I'll close this now, and if the creator sees a reason why it should be reopened, then he may PM me.

-Topic Closed-

*edit*

Following a PM conversation:

-Topic Reopened and Moved to The Lounge-

[*.fire*]

God drowns everyone on earth (except Noah and his family) Genesis 7:23, BT 30,000,000? 30,000,000
Genesis 6:5-6 NOw the Lord observed the extent of peoples wickedness, and he saw that all their thoughts were consistently and totally evil. SO the lord was sorry he ever made them. It broke his heart
God rains fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, killing everyone. Gen.19:24, BT 1000? 30,001,000
Genesis 18:26 And the Lord replied "If I find fifty innocent people in SOdom, I will spare entire city for their sake"
Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 30,001,001
How do you know God did that?
Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 30,001,002
He was wicked, you have to think that all of this is pre-Jesus, who died for us thus making us exempt of Gods judgement.
Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 30,001,003
If you read the start of the passage it says "But the Lord considered it a wicked thing for Onan to deny a child to his dead brother"
7th Egyptian Plague: Hail Exodus 9:25, BT 30,000? 30,031,003
He did that because the Egyptians did not let the Isrealites go.
God kills every Egyptian firstborn child. Ex.12:29-30, BT 500,000? 30,531,003
Same reason as above because the Pharoah still did let the Israelites go free.
God drowns Egyptian army Ex.14:28, BT 1000? 30,532,003
Because the Pharoah let the Israelites go and then he changed his mind and went after them. Exodus 14:4 I have planned this so I will recieve great glory at the expense of Pharaoh and his armies. After this, the Egyptians will know that I am Lord.
God and Moses help Joshua kill the Amalekites Ex.17:13, BT 1000? 30,533,003
Amalek is a type of the flesh, this provides a great reminder of the day when the sinful nature will be no more. Our full salvation purchased for us at the cross involves a new body. That which is corruptible shall put on the incorruptible. That which is mortal shall put on immortality. No more selfishness, no more sinfulness, no more Amalek! All traces of Amalek blotted out! What a day that will be.
For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 30,536,003
Becausethe 1st comandment says "You shall have no other gods before me."
Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 30,536,005
They disobeyed God by not properly making the fire as God had specified
A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 30,536,006
The third commandment says You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
God burned to death an unknown number for complaining Numbers 11:1, BT 100? 30,536,106
What the cause of this complaining was, we know not. The conjecture of St. Jerome is probable; they complained because of the length of the way. But surely no people had ever less cause for murmuring; they had God among them, and miracles of goodness were continually wrought in their behalf.It displeased the Lord] For his extraordinary kindness was lost on such an ungrateful and rebellious people. And his anger was kindled - Divine justice was necessarily incensed against such inexcusable conduct.
God sent "a very great plague" for complaining about the food. Num.11:33, BT 10,000? 30,546,106
Becuse the people were never happy with what the Lord had given them, they complained when they were taken out of slavery, complained when God gave the Manna, food of the heavens, now theyre complaining about the meat God had given them
God killed those who murmured with a plague. Num.14:35-36, BT 100? 30,546,206
Like I said before, why are people complaining after God had done so much for them?
A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 30,546,207
On the Last day God rested and ordered us to do so.
Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 30,546,219
Number 16:26 says that themen were wicked, and that by their death by God was because God despised them.
Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 30,546,469
If you read Numbers16:36 They didnt die
For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 30,561,169
Why complain about everthying good God has done?
Massacre of the Aradites Num.21:1-3, BT 3000? 30,564,169
Because they attaked first.
For complaining about the lack of food and water, God sent fiery serpents to bite the people, and many of them died. Num.21:6, BT 100? 30,564,269
Again, why are they complianing?
God delivers the Bashanites into Moses' hands and Moses kills everyone "until there was none left alive." Num.21:34-35, BT 1000? 30,565,269
They attacked the Israelites first
For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 30,589,269
Because they commted sin by having sex outside of marriage and worshiping other Gods
Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 30,679,269
They lead the Israelites to idoltary
The slaughter of the Anakim, the childen of Esau, and the Horim Deuteronomy 2:21-22 5000? 30,684,269
He was helping those who served him, this not really sure there is more research to be done
God hardened the king of Heshbon's heart so that the Israelites could massacre his people. (included several cities) Dt.2:33-34, BT 3000? 30,687,269
Again he did this to furhter his Kingdom on Earth
God delievered the king of Bashan so that the Israelites could massacre his people. Dt.3:3-6 60,000? 30,747,269
read above
Massacre of Jericho Joshua 6:21, BT 1000? 30,748,269
This I admit I;m not sure, I will ask my pastor.
God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 30,748,274
Achan stole Gods Tithe and he has also lied to him about it.
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 30,760,274
Ahhh this like the above I'm not sure but I will get back to you.
God slaughters the Amorites and even chases them "along the way" as they try to escape. Joshua 10:10-11, BT 1000? 30,761,274
Again I;m not sure, maybe God was increasing his kingdom on Earth but in verses before that it says Joshua 10:6 Come quickly and save us! For all the Amorite kings who line in the hill country have come out against us with their armies.
Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26, BT 5 30,761,279
Above
Massacre of 7 cities Joshua 10:28-42, BT 7000? 30,768,279
above... yes yes I know, I'm asking my pastor
God delivers the Hazorites. Joshua 11:8-12, BT 1000? 30,769,279
Above, and Its not like they killed them innocently their Kings sent out Armies first Joshua 11:4
Massacre of the Anakim Joshua 11:20-21, BT 1000? 30,770,279
Above
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 30,780,279
I also admit I dont know, but I am asking
Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 30,780,280
The King of Israel was named Eglon
Judges 3:15 But when Israel cried out to the Lord for help, the Lord raised up a man to rescue them. His name was Ehud son of Gera
God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 30,790,280
Again I have to admit I dont know, and yes I am asking.
Massacre of the Canaanites Jg.4:15, BT 1000? 30,791,280
If you read Judges 4:15 they conquered Sisera, and then if you had read Judges 4:3 Sisera, who had nine hundred iron chariots, ruthlessly opressed the Israelites for twenty years. Then the Israelites cried out to the Lord for help.
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 30,911,280
Judges 6:1-3 Again the Israelites did what was evil on the Lords sight. So the Lord handed them over to the Midianites for seven years. The Midianites were so cruel that the Israelites fled to the mountains...Whenever the Israelites planted their crops marauders from Midian would attack Israel
God delivered the Ammonites to Jephthah to slaughter. Jg.11:32-33, BT 1000? 30,912,280
The Amonites were planning to Kill the Israelites in the first place Judges 11:4 The Ammonites began their waragainst Israel.
The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 30,912,310
again I will ask my Pastor
The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 30,913,310
As above. (acutally anyone on cB is welcome to help me answer these)
Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 30,916,310
The Phillistines worship this weird ass idol named Dagon, not God, and they tried to Kill Sampson, if you read that Delilah is a BITCH
"The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 30,941,410
Before in this book there was a stroy of a man who stayed in Benjamin a night, that night men from there came and raped one of his servents till she was dead, the Israelites then wanted to persucute the men but the people of Benjamin refused to hand over the men, then then opted for war.
More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 30,966,410
Yes It seems a little too much overkill, but I will ask, and I still have faith in God no matter what
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19, BT 50,070 31,016,480
Asking.
God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12, BT 20 31,016,500
Well historically the Phillistines have continously oppressed the Israelites, so the Israelites revolted and attacked the Phillistines
God forces the Philistine soldiers to kill each other. 1 Sam.14:20, BT 1000? 31,017,500
Probably has something to do with the above.
God orders Saul to kill every Amalekite man, women, and child. 1 Sam.15:2-3, BT 1000? 31,018,500
1 Samuel 15:2 This is what the Lord Almighty says'I have decided to settleaccounts with the nation of Amalek for opposing Israel when they came from Egypt'
Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33, BT 1 31,018,501
It actually says But Samuel said "As your sword has killed the sons of many mothers, now your mother will be childless"
God delivers the Philistines. 1 Sam.23:2-5 1000? 31,019,501
The philistines were stealing grain from the threshing floors of Keilah
"The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 31,019,502
Samuel 25:3 Nabal, a descendant of Caleb was mean and dishonest in all his dealings
God delivers the Philistines to David (again). 2 Sam.5:19, 25 1000? 31,020,502
We've alread yestablished that the Philitines are bad people.
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 31,020,503
I will be asking
David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Samuel 12:14-18 1 31,020,504
I'm asking, there is no shame in not knowing everything
b]God sent a three-year famine because of something Saul did. 2 Sam.21:1 5000? 31,025,504[/b]
Asking
Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 31,025,511

From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 31,095,511
A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 31,095,512
Baasha killed everyone in the house of Jeroboam "according to the saying of the Lord." 1 Kings 15:29 1000? 31,096,512
Zimri killed everyone in the house of Baasha "according to the word of the Lord." 1 Kg.16:11-12 1000? 31,097,512
God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 31,197,512
God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 31,224,512
God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 31,224,513
Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kings 1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 31,224,514
Becausethe 1st comandment says "You shall have no other gods before me."
Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 31,224,616
God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 31,224,658
Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 31,224,659
God calls for a seven year famine. 2 Kg.8:1 10,000? 31,234,659
Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 31,234,660
God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 31,234,663
Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 31,419,663
Saul 1 Chronicles 10:14 1 31,419,664
God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chronicles 13:15-17 500,000 31,919,664
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 31,919,665
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 32,919,665
God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 32,919,666
God delivered the Israelites into the hand of the Chaldeans. 2 Chr.36:16-17 1000? 32,920,666
Ezekiel's wife Ezekiel 24:15-18 1 32,920,667
Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 32,920,669
Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 32,920,670

[Still editing 31-1-07]

[kimmytree]

Just because that is how the Bible depicts him, doesnt mean its true.

What's the purpose of this?

[*The Markster*]

God did each one for a reason.
I just don't know why for each one cause I never spend time to read the Bible.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

Could someone please clarify the point of this topic? I guess I just don't get it.

[*kryogenix*]

God has every right to. It's not a murder.

[Anubis_Birth]

.fire all you're saying is it's ok that god killed millions because they didn't obey him.

[flaymzofice]

I think what is intended for debate is the justification/reasoning behind the worship of God given His 'psychopathic' acts, as supported by writings in the Bible.

I have nothing to add to this discussion besides the wording of the question asked. 'Insane psychopath'. Erm, if you follow the Bible, you are (likely to be) religious, and believe the acts described in the Bible to be possible because they are done by God, whose powers are without limit. But if you refer to God as an 'insane psychopath', it is probably safe to assume you are not so religious, therefore the aforementioned acts are not possible therefore wouldn't you be the one called an 'insane psychopath' for believing?

[HakunaMatata]

Could someone please clarify the point of this topic? I guess I just don't get it.

He/She wants the question answered in the first post answered.

I shall edit this later describing why I do love Him.

And as a side note, please try not to be disrepectful. I understand that you are entitled to your own opinion and believe that I am wrong to worship my God, but calling Him an "insane psychopath" is rude and unnecessary.

[*sofakinglazy*]

Dang, God is more raw than Chuck Norris.

[Shahin]

I love me some God.

[*Intercourse.*]

Is it just me or does this look kind of like a chain letter you could see on myspace?

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

Oooooh, so you're basically asking us to justify why we believe in god, if we believe in god? The Lutheran god I'm guessing? I guess I shouldn't be posting here as I'm not of a religion.

[iROCKYOURSOCKS]

your only focusing on the bad things that God did why not focus on the good he has done? Read the Bible and get a clue. Most of these people he killed because they were horrible people, Like in Egypt many people were killed because they had jewish slaves and they were treating them worse then animals, Sodom and Gomorah people were killing war prisoners and using their heads as ornaments and everyone was having sex with anyone no matter if old guys where married they would be sleeping with little girls in the streets and causing shit where ever ,Lot's wife was not suppose to turn back because that would mean she would want to go back and share their same fate she got lucky because she was no saint but she wanted to see those people die she wanted to ENJOY their death so she shared their same fate. so actually read the Bible and get your facts.You get these things out of an internet site when you dont even know the background information for ANY of these things you listed. When you can explain each one and why he did it then i can actually debate with you. the Devil doesnt kill because he doesnt have to we are all doing the job for him Just watch the news about The war in Iraq and you will see. Get your info STRAIGHT.

And dont insult God.

[multifaceted]

I'm agnostic. So it does not bother me.

[Shahin]

your only focusing on the bad things that God did why not focus on the good he has done? Read the Bible and get a clue. Most of these people he killed because they were horrible people, Like in Egypt many people were killed because they had jewish slaves and they were treating them worse then animals, Sodom and Gomorah people were killing war prisoners and using their heads as ornaments and everyone was having sex with anyone no matter if old guys where married they would be sleeping with little girls in the streets and causing shit where ever ,Lot's wife was not suppose to turn back because that would mean she would want to go back and share their same fate she got lucky because she was no saint but she wanted to see those people die she wanted to ENJOY their death so she shared their same fate. so actually read the Bible and get your facts.You get these things out of an internet site when you dont even know the background information for ANY of these things you listed. When you can explain each one and why he did it then i can actually debate with you. the Devil doesnt kill because he doesnt have to we are all doing the job for him Just watch the news about The war in Iraq and you will see. Get your info STRAIGHT.

And dont insult God.

OR ELSE!

[Kontroll]

.fire all you're saying is it's ok that god killed millions because they didn't obey him.

When I read your first post, I was like...okay, she's got a point. But you don't. The Bible is not a book where you can take one passage and leave it at that. There might be some parts where you can, but most of the time if you did that, you'd be taking it out of context.

What we see from you A_Bath is a passionate ignorance. It seems that you just landed on some site and over read this very quickly, getting excited because it bashed God, and thought it would be good to post something you didn't know half about. If you're going to bash something make sure you know the whole story first.

To begin, do you even believe God exists? If not, then how did he kill all those people? You obviously do, if you're getting this furius about the deaths of millions thousands of years ago.

Secondly, if God created them, then they are his to judge and sentence for their sins.

So, learn your history before trying to find the psychopathic tendencies of my God.

[*IVIike*]

this should be in debate... it's actually a really good question

[*Duchess of Dork*]

I've read through this. I'm agreeing with:

this should be in debate... it's actually a really good question

This, to me is a better fit in the Debate Forum.

Dang, God is more raw than Chuck Norris.

Funny, but please stop with the spamming. Unless you have something solid to back up your claims.

----> Moved to Debate

[Anubis_Birth]

When I read your first post, I was like...okay, she's got a point. But you don't. The Bible is not a book where you can take one passage and leave it at that. There might be some parts where you can, but most of the time if you did that, you'd be taking it out of context.

What we see from you A_Bath is a passionate ignorance. It seems that you just landed on some site and over read this very quickly, getting excited because it bashed God, and thought it would be good to post something you didn't know half about. If you're going to bash something make sure you know the whole story first.

To begin, do you even believe God exists? If not, then how did he kill all those people? You obviously do, if you're getting this furius about the deaths of millions thousands of years ago.

Secondly, if God created them, then they are his to judge and sentence for their sins.

So, learn your history before trying to find the psychopathic tendencies of my God.

So your parents can kill you if you don't obey them is what you just said. I mean after all they did created your pathetic little body. Now please don't post in my topic if you are going to be idiotic.


Another thing you don't understand is this isn't about if god exist or NOT, it's about how people worship this sick freak that killed many JUST FOR NOT KISSING HIS ASS.

Let me ask, If god came down right now and said kill a new born baby would you? YES or NO

BTW sorry mods but I can't respect people who basically worship Hitler.

[*Duchess of Dork*]

&&sigh

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Less this:

Dang, God is more raw than Chuck Norris.

I love me some God.

Is it just me or does this look kind of like a chain letter you could see on myspace?

I'm agnostic. So it does not bother me.

OR ELSE!

More this:

your only focusing on the bad things that God did why not focus on the good he has done? Read the Bible and get a clue. Most of these people he killed because they were horrible people, Like in Egypt many people were killed because they had jewish slaves and they were treating them worse then animals, Sodom and Gomorah people were killing war prisoners and using their heads as ornaments and everyone was having sex with anyone no matter if old guys where married they would be sleeping with little girls in the streets and causing shit where ever ,Lot's wife was not suppose to turn back because that would mean she would want to go back and share their same fate she got lucky because she was no saint but she wanted to see those people die she wanted to ENJOY their death so she shared their same fate. so actually read the Bible and get your facts.You get these things out of an internet site when you dont even know the background information for ANY of these things you listed. When you can explain each one and why he did it then i can actually debate with you. the Devil doesnt kill because he doesnt have to we are all doing the job for him Just watch the news about The war in Iraq and you will see. Get your info STRAIGHT.

And dont insult God.

(Minus the don't insult God. This is a debate, not a fight over God)

And for goodness sake, stop with the name calling. Back up your arguments other than copying and pasting quotes from an internet site. How about telling us how he is like Hitler in your own words, instead of bashing those who are in support of God. Give reasonable and intelligent thought to this and I will keep this open. If not, it'll get closed. If you curse or call people names again here, you'll get warned.

So your parents can kill you if you don't obey them is what you just said. I mean after all they did created your pathetic little body. Now please don't post in my topic if you are going to be idiotic.
Another thing you don't understand is this isn't about if god exist or NOT, it's about how people worship this sick freak that killed many JUST FOR NOT KISSING HIS ASS.

Let me ask, If god came down right now and said kill a new born baby would you? YES or NO

BTW sorry mods but I can't respect people who basically worship Hitler.

Again, don't apologize for what other people believe in. Apologize for the immature behavior you have been exhibiting.

[*Uronacid*]

God has every right to. It's not a murder.

Agreed, God could kill you!

So your parents can kill you if you don't obey them is what you just said. I mean after all they did created your pathetic little body. Now please don't post in my topic if you are going to be idiotic.
Another thing you don't understand is this isn't about if god exist or NOT, it's about how people worship this sick freak that killed many JUST FOR NOT KISSING HIS ASS.

Let me ask, If god came down right now and said kill a new born baby would you? YES or NO

BTW sorry mods but I can't respect people who basically worship Hitler.

I don't know, but don't you think that you're taking that out of context. If you believed in God you would see him as the creator of all things, love itself, the beginning and the end, the wisest thing ever to exist.

God would not come down and tell you to kill a baby without reason. There is a situation in the Bible that is similar. God told Abraham to sacrifice his favored son Issac to Him to test Abraham's faith. God knew Abraham was faithful. The test was more for Abraham's benefit, but in the end God sent an angel to Abraham to stop him from sacrificing his son.

You should learn more about our religion before you rant and rave about how our God is the original Hitler.

[Anubis_Birth]

Agreed, God could kill you!
I don't know, but don't you think that you're taking that out of context. If you believed in God you would see him as the creator of all things, love itself, the beginning and the end, the wisest thing ever to exist.

God would not come down and tell you to kill a baby without reason. There is a situation in the Bible that is similar. God told Abraham to sacrifice his favored son Issac to Him to test Abraham's faith. God knew Abraham was faithful. The test was more for Abraham's benefit, but in the end God sent an angel to Abraham to stop him from sacrificing his son.

You should learn more about our religion before you rant and rave about how our God is the original Hitler.

Just answer yes or no. What you annoying christians do is avoid questions like these by change direction of the question. Remember your god if he wanted to can make killing babies a good thing, rape ok, stealing great, etc (As you people believe god makes the rules and can change them). If your god doesn't have the ability to change what's good or evil than your god ISN'T a god because real gods can do all.

[chibichi15]

^...ok. well, all those things are evil. and by definition: God is everything this world is not. He cannot make evil things good because it goes against who He is. And, I believe God is real. He created man and gave us a choice. He gives us a chance to come to a realization of what is right and wrong. and if we dont come to that realization and attain salvation by believeing that His Son died on a cross for the sins of this world, then He will judge us when we die and say, "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you." He apparently did not allow evil to go unpunished in the Old Testament, as you listed. He originally created this world and saw it was GOOD (Genesis 1:25). He created man in His own image, however, He also gave man a choice. Adam and Eve were tempted by Statn innthe Garden of Eden and chose to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. Because of this, God had to punish them for their sin. This is why there is sin in the world today. You don't think God delights in all the bad things going on, do you?

God has the capability to do anything. He made you and me, created this world in 6 days, and we're still alive. But, God isn't just a punisher. He also shows His grace everyday. We woke up today. We're alive. That's God's grace right there. Although someone may not have woken up today, that doesn't mean God said, "Oh, I think I want so-and-so to die today." God works all things according to His purpose. I don't know what that purpose is because my finite mind cannot grasp the infinite mind of God.

So, basically I'm just saying that God did all that because they all sinned against Him. But, they had a chance to do what is right and everyone of them had an understanding of the truth that sinning against God is wrong.

[Anubis_Birth]

Mods close this topic.

No point in debating anything if most of this site is full of religious people.

[Jinny]

it isn't god that's bad. its the people. and that's how god punishes them, they deserve it.
also, he wouldve done it for a reason. i meann.. he wouldnt just kill somebody because he felt like it, it would make no sense. and uh, no, god is NOT a "murderer".

god didn't only did bad thinks. think on the positive side

[chibichi15]

Mods close this topic.

No point in debating anything if most of this site is full of religious people.

sorry if i was just stating my opnion on the debate.

[*Intercourse.*]

^Don't be sorry at all Sharon, if this was moved to debate then you had every right to voice your opinion.

Mods close this topic.

No point in debating anything if most of this site is full of religious people.

I'm sorry but I don't get why you would want your topic to be closed? I mean you made it and you wanted others opinions in why others worship God if he killed so many people. So if you really wanted that to be answered wouldn't you need opinions out of others that actually believe in God...?

I think you need to read the rules of the debate forum as well like Rebecca suggested already, you may act one way but immature attitude against others opinions isn't going to be tolerated all the time:
http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12116

[*mishyerr*]

GOD HATES SINNERRRRRSSSSSSS

jk.

hahahahaha, God lets plenty of people die. What about all those Jews who died for him during the Holocaust? What about all those kids who have been held up to gunpoint for him? He lets them die. B/c HE is MIGHTY and in CONTROL.

I believe in God, but not exactly the Christian/Catholic one. That God must be some sort of freak, especially if his followers are all so messed up and hypocritical.

[cori-catastrophe]

So your parents can kill you if you don't obey them is what you just said. I mean after all they did created your pathetic little body. Now please don't post in my topic if you are going to be idiotic.
Another thing you don't understand is this isn't about if god exist or NOT, it's about how people worship this sick freak that killed many JUST FOR NOT KISSING HIS ASS.

Let me ask, If god came down right now and said kill a new born baby would you? YES or NO

BTW sorry mods but I can't respect people who basically worship Hitler.

You honestly have no clue what you're talking about, do you?
God has way more power than your parents. He is the ruler of the worls so explain to me how that comment makes any sence whatsoever.
This is a debate fourm, not a fourm made ot bash other people's beliefs. Please read the debate fourm rules. Also, the comment about kissing his ass, where does it say that he killed all those people because of that reason in the bible. Your first statement was based on passages out of the bible, after all. The person who made that obviously didn't have very much religious knowledge & I don't think you do either. It is obvious that oyu do not have very much knowlede in this subject so please use your common sence when posting, mkay?
Yes, I would kill a newborn baby if he said to. God has a reason for everything to happen & obviously it was the baby's time to go. And you said earlier that he killed all those people because they wouldn't worship him, am I correct? How could a baby worship him when it was just born. You are making no sence in debating that.
Please explain to me how Gos is like Hitler. Hitler was a dictator, God is a ruler. Hitler killed people for no reason, God killed people because they disobeyed him & he was ashamed he ever made them because they sinned. How do those two relate? I'd love to hear what else you have to say about this.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Just because that is how the Bible depicts him, doesnt mean its true.

What's the purpose of this?

the bible is the "word of the lord". The bible is true (well..so I won't fire up those atheists I'll say this one line)..for Christians. However as others have said God is ruler. People who choose to live under a government and rebel against it will take consequences. He wasn't a dictator yet they were being a bitch about the world. Complaining about the lives he took doesn't matter to me. They were not my mistakes.

[*mishyerr*]

You honestly have no clue what you're talking about, do you?
God has way more power than your parents. He is the ruler of the worls so explain to me how that comment makes any sence whatsoever.
This is a debate fourm, not a fourm made ot bash other people's beliefs. Please read the debate fourm rules. Also, the comment about kissing his ass, where does it say that he killed all those people because of that reason in the bible. Your first statement was based on passages out of the bible, after all. The person who made that obviously didn't have very much religious knowledge & I don't think you do either. It is obvious that oyu do not have very much knowlede in this subject so please use your common sence when posting, mkay?
Yes, I would kill a newborn baby if he said to. God has a reason for everything to happen & obviously it was the baby's time to go. And you said earlier that he killed all those people because they wouldn't worship him, am I correct? How could a baby worship him when it was just born. You are making no sence in debating that.
Please explain to me how Gos is like Hitler. Hitler was a dictator, God is a ruler. Hitler killed people for no reason, God killed people because they disobeyed him & he was ashamed he ever made them because they sinned. How do those two relate? I'd love to hear what else you have to say about this.

Not to butt into your argument or anything, but if God is in control of everything as you say, then God was in control of Hitler. Why would he let something like the Holocaust happen? Did those 6 million Jews and 1.5 million kids deserve to die? Were they more full of sin than the rest of people around the world? Did they need to be "cleansed off" just like Hitler said they needed to be?

Oh wait, like you said, it was "their time to go." Said like a true Hitler worshipper. (p.s. that was an exaggeration, please don't take that to heart and try to convince me you hate what Hitler did)

[cori-catastrophe]

Not to butt into your argument or anything, but if God is in control of everything as you say, then God was in control of Hitler. Why would he let something like the Holocaust happen? Did those 6 million Jews and 1.5 million kids deserve to die? Were they more full of sin than the rest of people around the world? Did they need to be "cleansed off" just like Hitler said they needed to be?

Oh wait, like you said, it was "their time to go." Said like a true Hitler worshipper. (p.s. that was an exaggeration, please don't take that to heart and try to convince me you hate what Hitler did)

I wasn't argueing so you're not butting into anything dear. God is in control of everything
& everyone but he lets people have freedom. That is the reson there is sin in the world. I mean, he could force everyone to be robots & do everything he says. But he's lets people have choices. He trusts them to make the right decisions & a vast majority of the time they do not, such as the Hitler case. Those people died because of Hitler's decision, not God's. I honestly can't believe that you are comparing Hitler to God.

As for the Hitler worshipper comment, I think that you are making very ignorant statements having to do with him. I do not worship Hitler, I worship God like any sane person would. When did Hitler ever say it was their time to go? He killed all of those people because he was a man with a sick mind. He had no problem killing those people because he was insane. HE killed them, NOT God. If I wanted to, I could get into this large debate with you over the last comment you made since I am very pissed about it, but I see no reason to debate with people who compare Hitler to God. It would just be a waste of my time because you obviosuly don't have very much knowledge on the bible to make those kind of ignorent statements.

[Bunnybandit]

gods a lover mofos....


my 2 cents ;]

[*kryogenix*]

Not to butt into your argument or anything, but if God is in control of everything as you say, then God was in control of Hitler. Why would he let something like the Holocaust happen? Did those 6 million Jews and 1.5 million kids deserve to die? Were they more full of sin than the rest of people around the world? Did they need to be "cleansed off" just like Hitler said they needed to be?

Oh wait, like you said, it was "their time to go." Said like a true Hitler worshipper. (p.s. that was an exaggeration, please don't take that to heart and try to convince me you hate what Hitler did)

People have free will. It was Hitler's exercise in free will to do the holocaust, not God's.

[Stefanny]

I'm sure that God has his reasons for doing all of this. Recognize that in all of these actions, people have done many many sins, further resulting into his so called "crimes." All of his actions lead to peace, and we all know that peace doesn't last forever. Thus, God continues to make peace over and over, keeping our world sane and from leading ourselves to total war and destruction.

Remember that at the time noted in the bible, the world wasn't a very well goverened place, and it was ruled by Kings and etc. Over the centuries, people have improved on their government and made peace within their own countries. I know what you're thinking, Iraq/Iran/etc. But keep in mind that they're currently receiving help from America, and I believe that God knows it'll lead to further peace. If not, then he'd probably fix it soon enough...

Oh, by the way, God is not an insane psychopath. He created you. He created the world. Pray to him because he lets you live and has blessed you with a comfortable life.

[Kontroll]

So your parents can kill you if you don't obey them is what you just said. I mean after all they did created your pathetic little body. Now please don't post in my topic if you are going to be idiotic.
Another thing you don't understand is this isn't about if god exist or NOT, it's about how people worship this sick freak that killed many JUST FOR NOT KISSING HIS ASS.

Let me ask, If god came down right now and said kill a new born baby would you? YES or NO

BTW sorry mods but I can't respect people who basically worship Hitler.

First of all. You call me pathetic...But yet, you're posts are no better. You just bash me for what I believe. That's call persecution.

Now, if you want to dig deep into the theological word...Jesus is God, is He not? If that is what you believe.. Anyway, considering he did all of these so called "murders" He got his punishment. He died on the cross. Justice. There...are you happy?

I don't think that you understand the realm of theology and how it affects cultures. Christianity, has had it's troubles, but let's take a look at Islam...

Islam...literal translation means Submission. The quaran speaks about killing infidels that don't believe in their religion. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran came onto American soil and basically told us that he is going to kill us because of what he believes. He believes that if he kills enough people including the Jews that the saviour[don't know exactly how to spell it, or if it is a saviour. I know it's some deity] will return and make the whole world submit to Islam.

You say that the Christian God is bad? First of all, when He kills people or things, it's justified. Not just because He's GOD! but because they obviously did something wrong. Things aren't like that now.

And no, I don't feel my parents have the right to kill me because times have changed. My parents aren't my god. God is my god.

Parents aren't absolute, God is. It's bad logic you're using there. Clean it up. I know I'm not the best at what I say, but I make it as easy as I can to understand.

And don't bash. It just makes you look like you have nothing good to say, and for that fact can't think of anything to say.

Not to butt into your argument or anything, but if God is in control of everything as you say, then God was in control of Hitler. Why would he let something like the Holocaust happen? Did those 6 million Jews and 1.5 million kids deserve to die? Were they more full of sin than the rest of people around the world? Did they need to be "cleansed off" just like Hitler said they needed to be?

Oh wait, like you said, it was "their time to go." Said like a true Hitler worshipper. (p.s. that was an exaggeration, please don't take that to heart and try to convince me you hate what Hitler did)

Things don't always seem as they appear. Did you ever think that they were being punished? Did you not know that Israel became a nation in like 1948 or something like that? THings have their reasons. We might not be able to see them at first. but htey do.

[flaymzofice]

Okay, so, several things -

Firstly, I'm not religious and I see how you pointedly ignored my contribution to this debate, questioning the position which you are taking yourself. Let me repeat myself for clarity
- if you believe those acts to have been committed, you must believe in some form of God, else how else would they have occurred? If this is so, you're just contradicting your religious belief with your own agnosticism.
- if you DON'T believe in God, surely you're the 'insane psychopath' for believing those acts were committed?

Secondly, not bashing on anyone but someone said God killed those people because they were 'horrible people'. Let's be clear; God, doesn't kill anyone. And also, being a 'horrible person' doesn't justify death.

Thirdly, God isn't defined by his ability to change all. A 'real' god isn't one who can change all the rules and get rid of all the evil that men do. Again, I'm not of any religion but I think, as a general belief, God does no more than oversee our existence; being there for those who ask for him to be, in their time of need. He doesn't intervene but his followers are free to interpret any actions as a sign of His intervention.

And really, faith is about the most abstract thing; how can anyone possibly justify their beliefs to anyone else to such an extent as to convince them of an alternative position? Nobody should have to do that; it's the beauty of free will.

[Dizzi]

God created us, so why wouldnt he have the say in everything?

[sweetangel2128]

God created us, so why wouldnt he have the say in everything?

There is no actual proof that he did. Just faith!.

[Dizzi]

There is no actual proof that he did. Just faith!.

yes true...but theres no actual proof that he didnt either. just theories. :)

[cori-catastrophe]

There is no actual proof that he did. Just faith!.

That's the entire point of Christianity, is it not?
Being faithful to your God & trusting him with everything.

[NoSex]

That's the entire point of Christianity, is it not?
Being faithful to your God & trusting him with everything.

Well, that's pretty idiotic. Ain't it?

[Kontroll]

Well, that's pretty idiotic. Ain't it?

YES! Acid Bath...I love you. Haha. But, to quote you...it isn't idiotic to believe in something like God created us. It betters a person. If there was no God, I'd still listen to what the Bible says because it does have a good moral standpoint. Right?

Secondly, flaymzofice.. God doesn't change. Things have changed from what He made them to be. The world was perfect, but now due to sin it's corrupt. He does change things, but you're right...He's not defined by changing all. And he does more than oversee. He uses people for His plan. I know most of you don't believe that, but most of you don't believe in it at all. That's why I think this debate is wholey directed towards Christians. I have to say that you do need to read more about God and His role and relationship with us. That's the point of Christianity. To have a relationship with God. Up until the time of Martin Luther, God was seen as wrathful for the most part and it's changed because people read the Bible and saw it for themselves.

I don't know. I'm not good at debating on something that is impossible to know. Am I right, Acid Bath?

[flaymzofice]

Hmm, well I don't think it's necessary to submit to the Christian faith in order to participate in this debate. One of my devout Christian friends says I'm basically Christian in my beliefs, but because I'm a cynic and a follower of free will, that obviously renders it impossible for me to be a 'true' Christian (and also explains why I am not a believer of God's Plan).

And I also think the exact opposite (that this debate is directed wholly at Christians); Anubis_Birth seems to find it impossible to believe why anyone would follow God and it would seem to me as a result that it would require precisely a non-follower (per se) to explain the apparently inexplicable actions of those who believe in the 'insane psychopath'. However, I contradict myself because as I have said, nobody should have to explain their beliefs to anybody.

[*mishyerr*]

And don't bash. It just makes you look like you have nothing good to say, and for that fact can't think of anything to say.
Things don't always seem as they appear. Did you ever think that they were being punished? Did you not know that Israel became a nation in like 1948 or something like that? THings have their reasons. We might not be able to see them at first. but htey do.

Actually, by "Were they more full of sin than the rest of people around the world?" I was implying that God was punishing them for their "sins."

I understand that some things have their reasons, but I don't believe that there is a God controlling everything and doing "stuff" for "reasons." It's kind of sad that Israel became a nation after an attempted genocide of the Jewish race.

I don't even believe that God is a murderer; I believe in a God that lets things happen the way it happens. Life happens how we choose it to. When events occur, there is no turning back or reworking it. (I don't believe in a Christian /Catholic / religious God).

Oh, and I completely agree that bashing you for "worshiping some freak" is unnecessary and immature.

[*Uronacid*]

Mods close this topic.

No point in debating anything if most of this site is full of religious people.

Omg, you're are queer I hate you, but God... he loves you. Although, he may kill you because he loves all of us... Religion is a very complicated subject, and if you don't know your stuff you're gonna get burned.

[*mishyerr*]

Omg, you're are queer I hate you, but God... he loves you. Although, he may kill you because he loves all of us... Religion is a very complicated subject, and if you don't know your stuff you're gonna get burned.

That's not nice!; I highly doubt you "know our stuff" about religion and that God would ask you to call someone a queer. Doesn't Jesus teach about loving your neighbor and all that other wonderful good stuff?

[flaymzofice]

^ LOL. This topic walks some fine line between serious debate and a pretty amusing joke.

[*.fire*]

God did each one for a reason.
I just don't know why for each one cause I never spend time to read the Bible.

Romans 10:17(NIV)
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

Still editing my post...

[sweetangel2128]

Omg, you're are queer I hate you, but God... he loves you.

I am not a Christian anymore but I was one for almost 2 1/2 years and I know in the Bible it says that you should respect others because Jesus loves everyone and he asks us to be more like him and obey his commandments. For one..."love your neighbor" is one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS which means if you don't go by it as a Christian, you are making one of the biggest sins of all since it is one of the 10 commandments. Just thought I'd point that out to ya!

[cori-catastrophe]

I am not a Christian anymore but I was one for almost 2 1/2 years and I know in the Bible it says that you should respect others because Jesus loves everyone and he asks us to be more like him and obey his commandments. For one..."love your neighbor" is one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS which means if you don't go by it as a Christian, you are making one of the biggest sins of all since it is one of the 10 commandments. Just thought I'd point that out to ya!

In God's eye, every sin is the same. I know it sounds weird but it's true. On Earth, people "rate" sins. Such as, if you lie it's not such a big thing, although it's still a sin whereas if you commit murder, it is considering very bad. God does not rate any sins, nor does he compare them. So basically, as far as God is concered lying & murder are equal & will be punshied the same. Therefore, just because love your neighbor is a commandment doesn't make it any worse if you commit that sin than any other.

[*mishyerr*]

In God's eye, every sin is the same. I know it sounds weird but it's true. On Earth, people "rate" sins. Such as, if you lie it's not such a big thing, although it's still a sin whereas if you commit murder, it is considering very bad. God does not rate any sins, nor does he compare them. So basically, as far as God is concered lying & murder are equal & will be punshied the same. Therefore, just because love your neighbor is a commandment doesn't make it any worse if you commit that sin than any other.

Someone else told me that being homosexual is an "untolerable" sin, while murdering and lying are "tolerable." I know this is completely off topic, but how come being homosexual is "more" of a sin than murdering and lying if all sins are equal?

[*Podomaht*]

HEY HE CAN COPY AND PASTE.

[NoSex]

In God's eye, every sin is the same. I know it sounds weird but it's true. On Earth, people "rate" sins. Such as, if you lie it's not such a big thing, although it's still a sin whereas if you commit murder, it is considering very bad. God does not rate any sins, nor does he compare them. So basically, as far as God is concered lying & murder are equal & will be punshied the same. Therefore, just because love your neighbor is a commandment doesn't make it any worse if you commit that sin than any other.

So, if God rates different sins equally, how could he ever be held as being just, nonetheless perfectly just?

[cori-catastrophe]

Someone else told me that being homosexual is an "untolerable" sin, while murdering and lying are "tolerable." I know this is completely off topic, but how come being homosexual is "more" of a sin than murdering and lying if all sins are equal?

That someone that told you that was incorrect. I'll try & get the verse later but as for not, I'm sleepy.
Homosexuality is rated the same.

So, if God rates different sins equally, how could he ever be held as being just, nonetheless perfectly just?

What are you asking? As I said, I'm sleepy & when I'm sleepy my brain doesn't function properly.

[*mishyerr*]

That someone that told you that was incorrect. I'll try & get the verse later but as for not, I'm sleepy.
Homosexuality is rated the same.

What are you asking? As I said, I'm sleepy & when I'm sleepy my brain doesn't function properly.

Don't worry about it; thank you for answering my q, though! ^_^

[*kryogenix*]

Sins are not equal. There is a distinction between venial and mortal sin.

However, you can say that some sins are equal because mortal sin results in a schism between yourself and the body of Christ. That is why people who are not in a state of grace cannot receive Holy Communion. Doesn't matter if you kill one person or kill one million people; you're cut off either way.

Then there's the whole notion of the "unforgivable" sin. Don't know the exact verse, but it has something to do with denying the Holy Spirit. There's an unfortunate fad on youtube with people denying the Holy Spirit (taking the no-win option in Pascal's Wager). Personally, I believe that there is no "unforgivable" sin. However, this sin can be unforgiving because if you deny the Holy Spirit, you probably aren't going to be looking for forgiveness or you are arrogant and/or so filled with despair that you believe that it is beyond God's help. Only thing we can do is pray for these people, that they will see that they're wrong and they'll ask for forgiveness.

[*mishyerr*]

I am officially confused. Every Christian has a different answer about what sin is, how it's rated, and etc.

[*kryogenix*]

I am officially confused. Every Christian has a different answer about what sin is, how it's rated, and etc.

You can thank Martin Luther for that.

[*mishyerr*]

You can thank Martin Luther for that.

lol

[sweetangel2128]

In God's eye, every sin is the same. I know it sounds weird but it's true. On Earth, people "rate" sins. Such as, if you lie it's not such a big thing, although it's still a sin whereas if you commit murder, it is considering very bad. God does not rate any sins, nor does he compare them. So basically, as far as God is concered lying & murder are equal & will be punshied the same. Therefore, just because love your neighbor is a commandment doesn't make it any worse if you commit that sin than any other.

I know that. I was a Christian for 2 1/2 years.

[iROCKYOURSOCKS]

So, if God rates different sins equally, how could he ever be held as being just, nonetheless perfectly just?

ehhhhh??

i get the first part but the "just nonetheless perfectly just" is confusing...

Well I dont think that God rates sins and as long as you ask for forgiveness for you sins he will be just and forgive you...murder however is another story.

[sweetangel2128]

[size=1]
Yes, I would kill a newborn baby if he said to.

That's sick right there. So, your saying you would ACTUALLY kill an innocent little baby because God told you to? I'm sorry but when you said that it just made me so sick to my stomach...actually no I am not sorry this is a debate and I think that is totally disturbing. Anybody who follows a God that says he'd kill someone if God told him too, such as a newborn child, is mentally disturbed.

One other thing I'd like to point out you made in a earlier post is that you say any sane person would follow God, does that mean that anyone who wishes not to follow YOUR God is an insane person?

[espressive]

I am not a Christian anymore but I was one for almost 2 1/2 years and I know in the Bible it says that you should respect others because Jesus loves everyone and he asks us to be more like him and obey his commandments. For one..."love your neighbor" is one of the 10 COMMANDMENTS which means if you don't go by it as a Christian, you are making one of the biggest sins of all since it is one of the 10 commandments. Just thought I'd point that out to ya!

Just because that was in the 10 commandments doesn't give the sin a value, because our sins don't have value. Sins are sins. They are equal. Like if two people are wrong about something, one is not "more wrong" than the other. The fact of the matter is - y'all were wrong.

Someone else told me that being homosexual is an "untolerable" sin, while murdering and lying are "tolerable." I know this is completely off topic, but how come being homosexual is "more" of a sin than murdering and lying if all sins are equal?

Who the fudge told you that?! Sins are flippin sins. Refer to what I said before.

Then there's the whole notion of the "unforgivable" sin. Don't know the exact verse, but it has something to do with denying the Holy Spirit. There's an unfortunate fad on youtube with people denying the Holy Spirit (taking the no-win option in Pascal's Wager). Personally, I believe that there is no "unforgivable" sin. However, this sin can be unforgiving because if you deny the Holy Spirit, you probably aren't going to be looking for forgiveness or you are arrogant and/or so filled with despair that you believe that it is beyond God's help. Only thing we can do is pray for these people, that they will see that they're wrong and they'll ask for forgiveness.

That is somewhat true. The unforgivable sin deals more so with blasphemy.

"Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation..." - Mark 3:28-29

You can thank Martin Luther for that.

Martin Luther said nothing about the rating of sins, as far as I know.

BTW sorry mods but I can't respect people who basically worship Hitler.

Hitler is a human whom, by the way, did not create the world and killed people because he wanted to create this perfect society.

God is divine, created the universe, and had every right to do what he wanted. He wasn't trying to create a perfect society. If he wanted a perfect society (one that worships him, one that doesn't sin), he would've done so in the first place instead of allowing humans the freedom of choice. When humans chose the wrong path, death was the punishment. God's plan for saving us from death was to send Jesus Christ, his only son, to die on the cross for us. Jesus's blood washed away our sins, so that we did not have to die for sinning.

If you can't show respect to others, especially by the request of a mod, then honestly, don't bother posting.

God's law demanded, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might" (Deuteronomy 6:5). But we have all loved other things more. This is what sin is—dishonoring God by preferring other things over him, and acting on those preferences.Since our sin is against the Ruler of the Universe, "the wages of [our] sin is death" (Romans 6:23). Not to punish would be unjust. So God sent his own Son, Jesus, to divert sin's punishment from us to himself. God "loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation"—the wrath-absorbing substitute—"for our sins" (1 John 4:10). Then God publicly endorsed Christ's accomplishment by raising him from the dead, proving the success of his suffering and death.

[sweetangel2128]

The thing that doesn't make any sense to me is why homosexuality is a sin. I mean every Christian is like well because God created man and woman, not man and man and not woman and woman. But still, homosexuals are human and some are actually born that way and cannot choose what they feel. Believe me, I have friends who were actually born into it. If God is so loving like everyone claims why would he say homosexuality is sinful, why would he judge them for that? It's just not right in my opinion. Which is one reason why I am no longer a Christian.

[datass]

Why in fact are you so anti-god?

I hate how people are against and diss other's religions, they can believe whatever they like to.

[cori-catastrophe]

That's sick right there. So, your saying you would ACTUALLY kill an innocent little baby because God told you to? I'm sorry but when you said that it just made me so sick to my stomach...actually no I am not sorry this is a debate and I think that is totally disturbing. Anybody who follows a God that says he'd kill someone if God told him too, such as a newborn child, is mentally disturbed.

One other thing I'd like to point out you made in a earlier post is that you say any sane person would follow God, does that mean that anyone who wishes not to follow YOUR God is an insane person?

Actually, yes I would. As I said in that post, God would obviously havea purpose for telling me to do that. God has a point for everything. He had everything planned out before we were even born. And if you think that my choice was disturbing, oh well. I follow God with all of my heart & if he tells me to do something, I do it. It called trusting & obeying hun, the entire point of Christianity.
And as for the comment I made, it didn't mean that persae. It's really hard to explain. But no, that's notwhat I meant.

Sins are not equal. There is a distinction between venial and mortal sin.

However, you can say that some sins are equal because mortal sin results in a schism between yourself and the body of Christ. That is why people who are not in a state of grace cannot receive Holy Communion. Doesn't matter if you kill one person or kill one million people; you're cut off either way.

Then there's the whole notion of the "unforgivable" sin. Don't know the exact verse, but it has something to do with denying the Holy Spirit. There's an unfortunate fad on youtube with people denying the Holy Spirit (taking the no-win option in Pascal's Wager). Personally, I believe that there is no "unforgivable" sin. However, this sin can be unforgiving because if you deny the Holy Spirit, you probably aren't going to be looking for forgiveness or you are arrogant and/or so filled with despair that you believe that it is beyond God's help. Only thing we can do is pray for these people, that they will see that they're wrong and they'll ask for forgiveness.

The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy, knowing the Holy Spirt is exsistant but denying him nontheles.

I know that. I was a Christian for 2 1/2 years.

If you knew it, why'd you make the comment? That contridicts itself.

The thing that doesn't make any sense to me is why homosexuality is a sin. I mean every Christian is like well because God created man and woman, not man and man and not woman and woman. But still, homosexuals are human and some are actually born that way and cannot choose what they feel. Believe me, I have friends who were actually born into it. If God is so loving like everyone claims why would he say homosexuality is sinful, why would he judge them for that? It's just not right in my opinion. Which is one reason why I am no longer a Christian.

That is something I don't understand either. I mean, certain people chose to have relationship sa that, but others say they have no choice. And I don't see how people think some of them chose that. For instance, I live in a town with al ot of rednecks, which are strongly against homosexuality for anyone that didn't know. There are several gay guys at my school & they get called names & made fun of all the time. Why the heck would they CHOSE that for their life? I've asked my preacher & he was no help so I have no clue.

[flaymzofice]

This is testy stuff.

Isn't homosexuality a sin as prescribed by followers of God since it wasn't an issue 'back then' and therefore not addressed in the Bible? So people take it being a sin as per their own interpretation of the Bible? (an innocent question before anyone leaps on me for being ignorant/anti-God etc)

[sweetangel2128]

Why in fact are you so anti-god?

I hate how people are against and diss other's religions, they can believe whatever they like to.

Not sure who that was pointed towards, but I don't diss other religions if you were referring to me. I am just stating why I don't agree with the Christian religion. And I am not anti-God, I am anti-Religion at this point and time. I do believe there is a possiblity of God, I just don't believe in the Christian God exactly. I actually like learning about different religions, it's rather interesting.

Actually, yes I would. As I said in that post, God would obviously havea purpose for telling me to do that. God has a point for everything. He had everything planned out before we were even born. And if you think that my choice was disturbing, oh well. I follow God with all of my heart & if he tells me to do something, I do it. It called trusting & obeying hun, the entire point of Christianity.
And as for the comment I made, it didn't mean that persae. It's really hard to explain. But no, that's notwhat I meant.
The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy, knowing the Holy Spirt is exsistant but denying him nontheles.
If you knew it, why'd you make the comment? That contridicts itself.
That is something I don't understand either. I mean, certain people chose to have relationship sa that, but others say they have no choice. And I don't see how people think some of them chose that. For instance, I live in a town with al ot of rednecks, which are strongly against homosexuality for anyone that didn't know. There are several gay guys at my school & they get called names & made fun of all the time. Why the heck would they CHOSE that for their life? I've asked my preacher & he was no help so I have no clue.

I posted that because that's what I believe in and sorry if I worded it wrong I've been in a lot of pain lately.

I just believe if your God tells you to kill, then theres something not right here. If I was in your shoes and someone asked me if I'd kill a child if God told me to. I'd respond with - "No, I wouldn't because God would never tell me to do that!". Not - "Yes, I would".

The whole gay thing will not be answered by a preacher because most preachers will tell you it's a sin because the Bible tells you so. I just don't understand why God would judge them...I guess we'll never know until we die and ask that question.

So people take it being a sin as per their own interpretation of the Bible?

What I've been trying to say all along. Everyone has there own interpretation of what the Bible or what God is trying to tell them. One person could believe being homosexual is ok while another finds it wrong. In my opinion I think God intended it that way (if he exists) and I believe that anything mentioned in the Bible such as - "don't steal, don't cheat, don't kill" are good rules to live by...I follow them even without God, I was brought up to follow those simple rules but all the other stuff like - "don't have sex before marriage because it's a sin, don't lust after someone" and all that in my opinion shouldn't be sinful in God's eyes...afterall, we ARE human.

This question is for everyone who claims that these are sins..if God didn't want us to do these things, why did he create them? I know your probably going to say free-will. But why would he even give us free will if these things are so bad..?

[ClaudelGFX]

Why do you kids always have to take HIM responsible for your own mistakes? for your own choices, good or bad, its up to you, you are the one and only responsible, stop finding others guilty of what you do, you are the black sheep not them.

This question is for everyone who claims that these are sins..if God didn't want us to do these things, why did he create them? I know your probably going to say free-will. But why would he even give us free will if these things are so bad..?

Life is like gambling you gotta evan the odds, but its up to you what to choose what's best for you.

Forget the past... and LIVE the future.

[sweetangel2128]

Why do you kids always have to take HIM responsible for your own mistakes? for your own choices, good or bad, its up to you, you are the one and only responsible, stop finding others guilty of what you do, you are the black sheep not them.

Forget the past... and LIVE the future.

This kinda reminds me of my ex-best friend who is a hardcore Christian girl. She believes every mistake she makes, whatever goes wrong in her life that God will fix it and make it better, she believes he helps you do EVERYTHING...but I was brought up to believe that - "God helps those who help themselves".

[ClaudelGFX]

That's exactly what i've said, you help yourself thinking HE will help you but in the end you have the good feeling that "someone" is looking after you and you are not alone, and that's the whole point, for some it matters for others it doesn't, in the end noone cares if you are like it or not, they will still belive in "something" no matter if you like it or not, if you dislike it or just hate it. It's their belief, its their choice and you can't do anything about it.
What you should take as granted is the fact that no matter whats your skin color nor what religion you follow, we are all humans and that's the only thing you should judge, evan if you have no right to do so.

[sweetangel2128]

That's exactly what i've said, you help yourself thinking HE will help you but in the end you have the good feeling that "someone" is looking after you and you are not alone.

Exactly! Now me, I try to live my life for myself and when I make a mistake, I correct and understand it was my fault for making it not Gods plan.

[ClaudelGFX]

LoL, what makes you think that everything that happens around you its a part of HIS plan? HIS plan was 7 days long and it was somewhere way back in the past, now its up to you, to make your own plan, wich eventually its your own life, deal with it.

[cori-catastrophe]

Not sure who that was pointed towards, but I don't diss other religions if you were referring to me. I am just stating why I don't agree with the Christian religion. And I am not anti-God, I am anti-Religion at this point and time. I do believe there is a possiblity of God, I just don't believe in the Christian God exactly. I actually like learning about different religions, it's rather interesting.
I posted that because that's what I believe in and sorry if I worded it wrong I've been in a lot of pain lately.

I just believe if your God tells you to kill, then theres something not right here. If I was in your shoes and someone asked me if I'd kill a child if God told me to. I'd respond with - "No, I wouldn't because God would never tell me to do that!". Not - "Yes, I would".

The whole gay thing will not be answered by a preacher because most preachers will tell you it's a sin because the Bible tells you so. I just don't understand why God would judge them...I guess we'll never know until we die and ask that question.
What I've been trying to say all along. Everyone has there own interpretation of what the Bible or what God is trying to tell them. One person could believe being homosexual is ok while another finds it wrong. In my opinion I think God intended it that way (if he exists) and I believe that anything mentioned in the Bible such as - "don't steal, don't cheat, don't kill" are good rules to live by...I follow them even without God, I was brought up to follow those simple rules but all the other stuff like - "don't have sex before marriage because it's a sin, don't lust after someone" and all that in my opinion shouldn't be sinful in God's eyes...afterall, we ARE human.

This question is for everyone who claims that these are sins..if God didn't want us to do these things, why did he create them? I know your probably going to say free-will. But why would he even give us free will if these things are so bad..?

It's fine. =]
It's really hard to express yourself online because you can never think of the right words.
I understand what you're saying, that no God worth worshiping would ever kill a newborn baby. I know that. But that was just an example. I was saying that if God told me to do anything I would, not just kill a newborn baby. He tests people all the time to see if they are truly faithful. And you never know, if he DID tell someoen to kill a baby, they may just be an illusion or something. They may not even exist or they are already an angel.

[sweetangel2128]

It's fine. =]
It's really hard to express yourself online because you can never think of the right words.
I understand what you're saying, that no God worth worshiping would ever kill a newborn baby. I know that. But that was just an example. I was saying that if God told me to do anything I would, not just kill a newborn baby. He tests people all the time to see if they are truly faithful. And you never know, if he DID tell someoen to kill a baby, they may just be an illusion or something. They may not even exist or they are already an angel.

It's clearly alright. I'm actually VERY sick...not in the throwing up sense but a different pain and it's hard to get my point across when all of a sudden I'll get this aweful pain but anyways...but i also believe if a God tells you to do something so aweful when it says - "do not kill" then God would be contradicting himself and I don't think I could live for a God like that.

[cori-catastrophe]

It's clearly alright. I'm actually VERY sick...not in the throwing up sense but a different pain and it's hard to get my point across when all of a sudden I'll get this aweful pain but anyways...but i also believe if a God tells you to do something so aweful when it says - "do not kill" then God would be contradicting himself and I don't think I could live for a God like that.

Hm. Good point. I've never thought off it like that.
And yeah, I'm pretty sick myself.
I'll look it up when I get home if I remember. But like I said, the "newborn baby" he tells you to kill may not actually exist. Do you get what I'm saying?

[sweetangel2128]

Hm. Good point. I've never thought off it like that.
And yeah, I'm pretty sick myself.
I'll look it up when I get home if I remember. But like I said, the "newborn baby" he tells you to kill may not actually exist. Do you get what I'm saying?

Yeah, I get you. But if the baby doesn't exist why would he ask you to kill it? What would be the purpose? What's the test? Ah...I don't know what mine is it's like a sudden pain, not constant but sudden, like muscles in my back and upper stomach tightening, it's hard to explain but it hurts like hell. It only lasts a few seconds. It's been doing this for like 2 days now. Rolaids help for a short time.

[cori-catastrophe]

Yeah, I get you. But if the baby doesn't exist why would he ask you to kill it? What would be the purpose? What's the test? Ah...I don't know what mine is it's like a sudden pain, not constant but sudden, like muscles in my back and upper stomach tightening, it's hard to explain but it hurts like hell. It only lasts a few seconds. It's been doing this for like 2 days now. Rolaids help for a short time.

It is to test your faithfulness toward God to see if you really trust him. Below is a passge out of the bible. Notice the bolded verse. In him saying WE will come back, he obviously had faith that God was going to rise him from the dead or that he would stop him. That is the point. And yeah, I know what mine is. It's that time of the month again.

1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!"
"Here I am," he replied.

2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you."

3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."

6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"
"Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.
"The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.

9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
"Here I am," he replied.

12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."

15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

19 Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set off together for Beersheba. And Abraham stayed in Beersheba.

[sweetangel2128]

It is to test your faithfulness toward God to see if you really trust him. Below is a passge out of the bible. Notice the bolded verse. In him saying WE will come back, he obviously had faith that God was going to rise him from the dead or that he would stop him. That is the point. And yeah, I know what mine is. It's that time of the month again.

1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!"
"Here I am," he replied.

2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you."

3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."

6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"
"Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.
"The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.

9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!"
"Here I am," he replied.

12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."

15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

19 Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set off together for Beersheba. And Abraham stayed in Beersheba.

Yeah, I think I've read that story before

[cori-catastrophe]

Yeah, I think I've read that story before

Yeah. There's others one too that are similar.

[sweetangel2128]

Yeah. There's others one too that are similar.

Yeah, but my other question is. Well, I've heard other Christians say that God knows all about us because he created us, if he does then why would he have to test our Faith if he knows our hearts already?

[*mishyerr*]

After reading the dialogue between "Heath21" and "obscure enigma" I am so confused again by the Christian religion!

But Heath21, you do bring up great questions! :]

[sweetangel2128]

After reading the dialogue between "Heath21" and "obscure enigma" I am so confused again by the Christian religion!

But Heath21, you do bring up great questions! :]

Haha thanks for the comment. BTW, I am not a Christian just in case you didn't know. I'm Agnostic.

[*mishyerr*]

^ Me, too :)

[NoSex]

It is to test your faithfulness toward God to see if you really trust him.

You Christians really need to learn to get your stories straight.
God is either omniscient or not. He either knows everything and requires no tests, or he is does not know everything and most entertain tests with his children.

God is either all just, or he isn't. Either he weights crimes and good deeds accordingly and matches them to appropriate rewards and punishments, or he doesn't. You can't have it both ways. A just God can't rate different sins as equal.

Further, you have a lot of speculation. But, you have yet to substantiate anything you have said at all. God telling you anything, let alone to kill a child, is a far cry. Hell, God could easily not even exist. But, to face the reality of the biblical representation of the Christian god: WHy would you hold different moral standards to your fellow man in comparison to your king or your god? What would permit a God to kill millions while a human being could not? How does it make any sense that the law makers be inherently exempt from the laws? Further, and more disturbingly, how is it that a perfect, all-loving, omni-benevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent god chooses violence as a means to an end? Why would a god, who is supposed good and right in all aspects and within all reason, not simply snap his fingers or cure a problem peacefully? Why must god execute his own children by the millions? And, even if such a god exists, why should we worship him?

"Strange! that you should not have suspected years ago -- centuries, ages, eons ago! -- for you have existed, companionless, through all the eternities. Strange, indeed, that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane -- like all dreams: a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell -- mouths mercy and invented hell -- mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!" - - - Mark Twain

[cori-catastrophe]

Yeah, but my other question is. Well, I've heard other Christians say that God knows all about us because he created us, if he does then why would he have to test our Faith if he knows our hearts already?

Mish is right, you do come up with great questions.
God gives you free-will. If he wanted, he could've made us all mindless zombies that bow down to him. But he lets us have choices & trusts us to make the right decisions.
Why are you so confused, Mish?

[NoSex]

Mish is right, you do come up with great questions.
God gives you free-will. If he wanted, he could've made us all mindless zombies that bow down to him. But he lets us have choices & trusts us to make the right decisions.
Why are you so confused, Mish?

Cute. But, wholly fallacious.
Perfect divine foreknowledge and omniscience is mutually exclusive to free will. It's an incompatible property. If you want to argue the point, go to the right thread.

The Theological Problem of Free Will

Not to mention, you avoided the question.
Why would an all-knowing God acquire a test?

[flaymzofice]

^ because once having left His side, humans are prone to corruption by the natural evil which exists to provide for the operation of free will (to choose between good and evil)? - devil's advocate suggestion; not necessarily a response I endorse.

WHy would you hold different moral standards to your fellow man in comparison to your king or your god? What would permit a God to kill millions while a human being could not? How does it make any sense that the law makers be inherently exempt from the laws?

King and God are not comparable ideas; in this day and age, king as a representative/vessel of God on earth is an obsolete idea.

As for the different moral standards between God and man - well, if you follow religion then God created man, automatically rendering man subservient to God. It would not then seem right to treat as equal the one who alone had the power to create you? (if you follow religion).

And one would not 'permit' God to kill millions; as a higher being, His choices/decisions/actions are not accountable to man since again, subservience.

And as for law makers being inherently exempt from those very laws of their creation, well, in any progressive (and by this, I mean Western; I will readily admit to thinking a great majority of the states in the other direction operate a dated legal system) country this is not the case. Quite the contrary - accountability is very high on the agenda (though may not necessarily be conducted in the most effective manner). Indeed, in many states, lawmakers are held to a higher degree of accountability precisely because they are lawmakers.

[Kontroll]

You Christians really need to learn to get your stories straight.
God is either omniscient or not. He either knows everything and requires no tests, or he is does not know everything and most entertain tests with his children.

God is either all just, or he isn't. Either he weights crimes and good deeds accordingly and matches them to appropriate rewards and punishments, or he doesn't. You can't have it both ways. A just God can't rate different sins as equal.

Further, you have a lot of speculation. But, you have yet to substantiate anything you have said at all. God telling you anything, let alone to kill a child, is a far cry. Hell, God could easily not even exist. But, to face the reality of the biblical representation of the Christian god: WHy would you hold different moral standards to your fellow man in comparison to your king or your god? What would permit a God to kill millions while a human being could not? How does it make any sense that the law makers be inherently exempt from the laws? Further, and more disturbingly, how is it that a perfect, all-loving, omni-benevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent god chooses violence as a means to an end? Why would a god, who is supposed good and right in all aspects and within all reason, not simply snap his fingers or cure a problem peacefully? Why must god execute his own children by the millions? And, even if such a god exists, why should we worship him?

"Strange! that you should not have suspected years ago -- centuries, ages, eons ago! -- for you have existed, companionless, through all the eternities. Strange, indeed, that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane -- like all dreams: a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell -- mouths mercy and invented hell -- mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!" - - - Mark Twain

Well, if you look at the story of Jonah, God allowed the Ninevites one last chance to repent before He would act out against them.

Also, God isn't human. As humans we all follow rules. Even those who make the rules. But I know what you're saying. It really isn't logical for the creator of a law to break the laws himself.

[Kontroll]

Cute. But, wholly fallacious.
Perfect divine foreknowledge and omniscience is mutually exclusive to free will. It's an incompatible property. If you want to argue the point, go to the right thread.

The Theological Problem of Free Will

Not to mention, you avoided the question.
Why would an all-knowing God acquire a test?

What if God were to give man any number for every situation he was too encounter? That would eliminate the contradiction.

Also, dude. Are there any books you recommend? I was blown away with your Theological Problems of Free Will. I know you didn't just think of that crap all by yourself. You must have read some stuff.

[*mishyerr*]

Mish is right, you do come up with great questions.
God gives you free-will. If he wanted, he could've made us all mindless zombies that bow down to him. But he lets us have choices & trusts us to make the right decisions.
Why are you so confused, Mish?

B/c everyone has different interpretations of the Bible; the Bible is confusing simply because of the many different things it tells us.

I guess I'm not as much confused as having many questions. But I don't really care about my questions anymore because I don't need the answers, hehe. :)

[NoSex]

^ because once having left His side, humans are prone to corruption by the natural evil which exists to provide for the operation of free will (to choose between good and evil)? - devil's advocate suggestion; not necessarily a response I endorse.

Clearly, a perfect all-knowing and all-loving god could find better means to the same end. Further, we are just as prone to said evils today. Why not flood the earth again?

King and God are not comparable ideas; in this day and age, king as a representative/vessel of God on earth is an obsolete idea.

As for the different moral standards between God and man - well, if you follow religion then God created man, automatically rendering man subservient to God. It would not then seem right to treat as equal the one who alone had the power to create you? (if you follow religion).

And one would not 'permit' God to kill millions; as a higher being, His choices/decisions/actions are not accountable to man since again, subservience.

And as for law makers being inherently exempt from those very laws of their creation, well, in any progressive (and by this, I mean Western; I will readily admit to thinking a great majority of the states in the other direction operate a dated legal system) country this is not the case. Quite the contrary - accountability is very high on the agenda (though may not necessarily be conducted in the most effective manner). Indeed, in many states, lawmakers are held to a higher degree of accountability precisely because they are lawmakers.

The problem with this is that no meaningful ethical system works from an authoritative and totalitarian position. Ethics and moral actions are not derived from obedience and subservience. Further, there is nothing which suggests that an immoral act committed by one party is inherently moral given it is committed by a higher authoritative party, even if that party happens to be the highest of all authoritative parties. Either morality is absolute or it isn't. Can't have it both ways.

We can say God is above man, but that's an excuse, not an explanation. How, exactly, is it that murder is justified in God but unjustified in man?

What if God were to give man any number for every situation he was too encounter? That would eliminate the contradiction.

Also, dude. Are there any books you recommend? I was blown away with your Theological Problems of Free Will. I know you didn't just think of that crap all by yourself. You must have read some stuff.

I'm not so sure that eliminates the contradiction. So long as god is omniscient, man can not make a free choice as he has no options.

Uhhmm, I thought of a lot of that myself, ergo the intentional emphasis in deductive and analytical positions. Further, the analogies and arguments I brought forth are of my own for the most part, however this is not to say very similar or near identical comparisons have been made, as I'm sure they have. The argument isn't very rare, but I certainly expanded on it freely.

But, if you want some good reading, I'll suggest a few books:
Why I Am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell.
Atheism: The Case Against God by George H. Smith.
The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine.
Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche.
An Enquiry concerning Human Understanding by David Hume.

For the most solid and less poetic of arguments, I would suggest Smith's work.

[sweetangel2128]

Not to mention, you avoided the question.
Why would an all-knowing God acquire a test?

I was actually thinking the exact same thing before I read your answer lol.

[flaymzofice]

Clearly, a perfect all-knowing and all-loving god could find better means to the same end. Further, we are just as prone to said evils today. Why not flood the earth again?

The problem with this is that no meaningful ethical system works from an authoritative and totalitarian position. Ethics and moral actions are not derived from obedience and subservience. Further, there is nothing which suggests that an immoral act committed by one party is inherently moral given it is committed by a higher authoritative party, even if that party happens to be the highest of all authoritative parties. Either morality is absolute or it isn't. Can't have it both ways.

We can say God is above man, but that's an excuse, not an explanation. How, exactly, is it that murder is justified in God but unjustified in man?

Why not indeed? However, if God flooded the earth every time enough people were 'corrupted'/failed His 'tests', He wouldn't really be leading by example. That's essentially saying, when in doubt run/start from scratch. Again, argument for argument's sake.

But I'm not talking about any system operating from an authoritative/totalitarian basis. I was referring to subservience in terms of man's relationship with God. As far as lawmakers and politics go, I, to an extent, am a follower of social contract theory - that we give up certain rights to receive protections and in due course, subject ourselves to governance. I agree that ethics and morals are indeed not derived of obedience of subservience - there is no positive correlation for this relationship. Neither did I necessarily say the commitment of an act regarded as immorally wrong by one party, could be inherently moral when committed by the highest party such as God. I am simply saying that for those who worship such figures as God, there is no questioning of the moral nature of the act, whether it be right or wrong by our code, because He is superior.

The analogy wouldn't really work nowadays, but it's similar to not really being able to question the authority of one's parents. I'm sure they are guilty of numerous acts which are contrary to the child's moral code of conduct, but the child is in no position to question that because the relationship which exists between them is not one which, for example, resembles social contract. In other words, the simple parent-child relationship is one in which the parent will always outrank the child because the child will always lack authority upon which the claims/arguments could be made.

In this way, no amount of theorising can change the fact that those who follow God, believe him to occupy a pedestal of the variety which grants him freedom from human judgement. So it's not that there are multiple moral codes; it is simply that the ability to measure God's acts by the moral worth of our own, is unavailable. Ergo I am saying, murder is not justified by God; followers of God are simply not permitted an option to doubt it.

[espressive]

Why do you kids always have to take HIM responsible for your own mistakes? for your own choices, good or bad, its up to you, you are the one and only responsible, stop finding others guilty of what you do, you are the black sheep not them.

I'm guessing "him" is God. If you're saying that Christians blame their sins on God and make God the guilty person, that is not how Christianity works. We are to accept the consequences of our actions/choices, but we must also repent for sinning against God and learn from those mistakes. God sent his son to die for us SO that we could repent for our sins, and not die because of it. I do think that some Christians take repetance for granted. They say "forgive me this and that. thank you, amen." and have no intention on changing their behavior whatsoever. That is not the way it works, but who am I to say, "You are a bad Christian for doing that!" I am not one to judge. I just don't approve of it.

This question is for everyone who claims that these are sins..if God didn't want us to do these things, why did he create them? I know your probably going to say free-will. But why would he even give us free will if these things are so bad..?

God has the power to create a perfect society, but that was not his intention. He could create a society that worships him, free of sin, and are just perfect in every single aspect, but he loved us so much that he gave us free will. He wanted us to come to him, not make us come to him by force. But in turn, free will also leads to "these things [that] are so bad", as you mentioned. We, humans, chose some of these bad things from our free will. So I once heard of this analogy by a fellow small group leader: You love someone. Would you rather have him/her be with you by free will or force him/her to be with you? Forcing him/her may lead into an unhappy relationship, one that is not desired. Free will, on the other hand, gives the person a choice - one that will lead to a healthy, desired relationship.