Is War Justified Murder? Options

[Kontroll]

I feel that the killing or for specific terms, murder of one soldier by another soldier is justified. The soldier is protecting our society, he is protecting our individual rights as a citizen of a certain country. If I've forgotten more then tell me. But I'm sure you all have the point. I feel that it's justified, but some people don't.

If a citizen or ordinary person killed or murdered another person to save another person from losing his life is he right?

I really want to see how people view this topic. If I have not made myself clear, then just ask me to clarify. Thanks.

[sakaitone]

If a citizen or ordinary person killed or murdered another person to save another person from losing his life is he right?

I don't think so because how can you measure a value of one person's life to another? If you were killed to save someone from losing thier life could you honestly say that it was right? That his/her life is more valuable than yours? I think as a society we should refrain from killing people (not saying that we should stop it all together because sometimes a bullet is the only way to stop some crazy sicko) because there is no coming back from death.

[Shahin]

I wouldn't dub it murder. The word murder implies that an individual or a group of individuals kill an unsuspecting or helpless individual or group of individuals.

That said, soldiers by the nature of the job, knowingly put themselves in situations where death is a very real possibility. If a soldier kills a soldier from an opposing army, then of course I think it is justified.

If a citizen or ordinary person killed or murdered another person to save another person from losing his life is he right?

It really depends on the situation. I wouldn't have hesitated to pop the kids that shot up Columbine with a couple slugs.

[*kryogenix*]

Murder and justified don't belong together.

[vash1530]

if u think that one person deserves to live more than another, then yes you can justify. but like everything else, thats ur opinion and ppl prolly wouldn't take too kindly to it.

[sakaitone]

if u think that one person deserves to live more than another, then yes you can justify. but like everything else, thats ur opinion and ppl prolly wouldn't take too kindly to it.

Like I said before, how can you measure the value of someone's life compared to another? Just because they've accomplished more or it's because you like them better? How can you decide who's life is important and who's is not?

[xourzestt]

No. because you choose to walk towards your death and there are rules to war so it's kind of like your choose to play in that game. So if you die then that's your fault.

[demolished]

Like I said before, how can you measure the value of someone's life compared to another? Just because they've accomplished more or it's because you like them better? How can you decide who's life is important and who's is not?

emotions that drives you.

[fameONE]

War is murder?

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this.

Oh, is killing someone else in combat considered murder? Is that the question? No. You have a job to do, you get the job done. Lives are taken. Shit happens.

[sweetfeet]

The soldier is protecting our society, he is protecting our individual rights as a citizen of a certain country.

In cases where the soldier is protecting his country, I agree with you.

Most of the time, they are not protecting their country but only its leaders and their prestige.

Participating in a war of aggression like the US war in Iraq IS like murder.

[think!IMAGINARIL...]

War is murder?

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this.

Oh, is killing someone else in combat considered murder? Is that the question? No. You have a job to do, you get the job done. Lives are taken. Shit happens.

First of all, why would someone join the army? Sure you can just get drafted randomly or whatever, but a lot of people do it for the pride of their country.
Murder is manslaughter (yeah, I know it's contradictory, but I couldn't think of a better way to put it), but with premeditation. People who fight for their country know what they're getting themselves into. They know that they're gonna kill someone.
War strategies are related to murder. I mean, strategies are plans, premeditation. War strategies are basically plans to kill people and achieve your objective. If look at a person, point a gun at them, and shoot, that's murder. Most likely, you've though about it for a split-second, and that's still murder because that split-second is premeditation.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

It's not murdering, it's killing.

I disagree when you say that they knew what they were getting themselves into. When you join you know of the possiblity of war, not the degree of violence that is going to be involved in that war.

[think!IMAGINARIL...]

But a large portion of the wars in the past were violent.

And even if they didn't know what they were getting themselves into, it'd still be murder.

There's a very thin line between killing and murder.
Killing is more like manslaughter.
Murder is killing with premeditation.

When you shoot someone or drop a bomb (and someone dies) it's murder. It was planned and premeditated. You had the intention to kill someone.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

I have never been to war, obviously. I don't really think it's anyone's place to call people who are over there busting their asses day and night so people in America can still sleep in their own beds murders. I guess it's more a a kill or be killed. Even if it's premeditated I don't think it will matter to say "Oh, at least we didn't murder anyone" when some terrorist decides to make an attack on America 100 times worse than 9/11. But that's just my opinion. I can understand why you would say even if it's for a split second you knew you were going to kill them, I don't think many of the soldiers WANT to kill them though. The motive for murder during war is much different than some woman murdering a woman that her husband cheated on her with... she wants her dead.

[think!IMAGINARIL...]

I have never been to war, obviously. I don't really think it's anyone's place to call people who are over there busting their asses day and night so people in America can still sleep in their own beds murders.

I agree with you on that. They're not murderers in Americans' eyes.. But to the other country, soldiers may be viewed as murderers.

Even if it's premeditated I don't think it will matter to say "Oh, at least we didn't murder anyone" when some terrorist decides to make an attack on America 100 times worse than 9/11. But that's just my opinion.

Umm, I didn't exactly understand that. Can you clarify it?

I can understand why you would say even if it's for a split second you knew you were going to kill them, I don't think many of the soldiers WANT to kill them though. The motive for murder during war is much different than some woman murdering a woman that her husband cheated on her with... she wants her dead.

The motive doesn't matter. Murder is still murder.

In English law, murder is considered the most serious form of homicide where one person kills another either intending to cause death or intending to cause serious injury in a situation where death is virtually certain (originally termed malice aforethought even though it requires neither malice nor premeditation). Following the Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Act 1965, the mandatory sentence is life imprisonment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

In war, soldiers intend to kill people. According to the passage above, it's murder.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Murder yes; justified, no.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

The motive doesn't matter. Murder is still murder.

So are you saying that there's no such thing as murder in self defense?

[fameONE]

First of all, why would someone join the army? Sure you can just get drafted randomly or whatever, but a lot of people do it for the pride of their country.
Murder is manslaughter (yeah, I know it's contradictory, but I couldn't think of a better way to put it), but with premeditation. People who fight for their country know what they're getting themselves into. They know that they're gonna kill someone.
War strategies are related to murder. I mean, strategies are plans, premeditation. War strategies are basically plans to kill people and achieve your objective. If look at a person, point a gun at them, and shoot, that's murder. Most likely, you've though about it for a split-second, and that's still murder because that split-second is premeditation.

*ding

I hope you're ready beacuase you've opened a can of worms that I'm not sure you can handle.

When engaged in combat, you are not actively seeking people out and murdering them. That would be a crime. A murder is one sided. The victim either cannot defend themselves or does not see it coming. A killing that occurs in combat is under the agreement and knowledge that, of the two sides, one has to win. If you got shot at, would you sit there and hope that a 7.62 does rip through your skull and splatter your brains all over your platoon Sergeant's face, or do you fight back and end the lives of all those who threaten the safety of you or your Marines?

Exactly.

[think!IMAGINARIL...]

So are you saying that there's no such thing as murder in self defense?

Self defense wouldn't be murder at all, but the person who shoots the first bullet (and kills someone) would be a murderer because they weren't really defending themselves.

*ding

I hope you're ready beacuase you've opened a can of worms that I'm not sure you can handle.

When engaged in combat, you are not actively seeking people out and murdering them. That would be a crime. A murder is one sided. The victim either cannot defend themselves or does not see it coming. A killing that occurs in combat is under the agreement and knowledge that, of the two sides, one has to win. If you got shot at, would you sit there and hope that a 7.62 does rip through your skull and splatter your brains all over your platoon Sergeant's face, or do you fight back and end the lives of all those who threaten the safety of you or your Marines?

Exactly.

That's defense.
Someone has to start the fighting. It's not like both sides charge at the same time and start shooting.. Now, if someone is killed with lets say.. a sniper rifle, starting a battle, that'd be murder.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

Self defense wouldn't be murder at all, but the person who shoots the first bullet (and kills someone) would be a murderer because they weren't really defending themselves.

Well, when you said that even if a person thinks about it for a split second it was premeditated, which makes it wrong. If you're trying to defend yourself... for example if someone is trying to kidnap you and you fight back and kill them that would be murder, right? Because when you were fighting back you knew, even if for a split second, that they were going to die. Whether you physically fought that person or actually shot them or stabbed them.

I still stick by what I've said... killing in war is different than killings/murders that happen here. It's kill or be killed.

[fameONE]

Sniper fire is a strategic tactic of combat. The fighting doesn't commence when someone fires the first round, the fighting commences in the offices of elected leaders throughout the world. Real talk.

[Simba]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

In war, soldiers intend to kill people. According to the passage above, it's murder.

A soldier "murdering" a soldier of the opposition, according to law, which is what you were referring to, so that's what I'll go by, is indeed justified. I mean, it has to be, otherwise there would be quite a few soldiers and veterans in trouble...

First of all, according to law, soldiers in war technically do not commit murder. Murder is a form of homicide, and homicide is the killing of a human being. Murder is just the most serious and inexcusable form. It even says so in that passage you referred to. So, supposedly, soldiers in war are committing homicide.

Though, it's justifiable homicide. In criminal law, justifiable homicide excuses what would have been considered intentional killing.

Where a state is engaged in a war with a legitimate casus belli, a soldier from one of the combatant states may lawfully kill a soldier in the army of the opposing state so long as that soldier has not surrendered. This principle is embedded in public international law and has been respected by most states around the world. Thus, if there is no formal declaration of war or the casus belli is not legitimate, all those who engage in the fighting and kill combatants could theoretically be prosecuted. Otherwise, protecting the national interest against external aggressors will be considered an excuse on utilitarian grounds, i.e. the greatest public good will be derived from the defeat of the enemy.

Passage from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_h...t_jurisdictions

And that would be the condition that soldiers in war meet, thus making their homicide justified, except in the case that the soldier who was the victim of the homicide surrendered beforehand.

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

If a citizen or ordinary person killed or murdered another person to save another person from losing his life is he right?

From a legal viewpoint, it'd depend on the circumstances under which person A terminated with person B's life, such an act being conditioned by the level of danger person C's life was under. With the present evidence it is impossible to reach a conclusive veridict.

Ethically speaking, there's no way to reach solid conclusion either mainly for the same reasons; even using the most pragmatic ethical standards, there doesn't seem to be a direct relation between person B and person C's endangered life. The answer seems to be "No, under the present case there's no evidence that suggests killing person B will have any kind of effect on person C's life (lest we resort to the use of vague hypothesis, which is also unlikely to produce an objective answer)."

[faded23]

Murder and justified don't belong together.

word.

[YourSuperior]

I say, if you're fighting for your country in a war, expect people to get killed because that's what's supposed to happen. I don't think that killing another person to save your country is wrong. It's definately not murder, because both participants in the war are killing eachothers men. This can go both ways.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

I say, if you're fighting for your country in a war, expect people to get killed because that's what's supposed to happen. I don't think that killing another person to save your country is wrong. It's definately not murder, because both participants in the war are killing eachothers men. This can go both ways.

I agree. I think people are killed in war, though, not really murdered. -shrug-

[*T0rmented_Soul*]

I feel that the killing or for specific terms, murder of one soldier by another soldier is justified. The soldier is protecting our society, he is protecting our individual rights as a citizen of a certain country. If I've forgotten more then tell me. But I'm sure you all have the point. I feel that it's justified, but some people don't.

If a citizen or ordinary person killed or murdered another person to save another person from losing his life is he right?

Well I can say it all depends on the situation, You can't deny that some wars were useless and not worth fighting for, would you justify that our country murdered our men or would you blame that the other country killed our men. Alot of people think differently and alot of people don't see the view points of others. Everybody's life is worth living for and maybe saving for. You can't though judge the value of a person's life. Some act on instinct that it may be the right thing to do to save another one's life in risking your own. While others may think that your life is more valuable than theirs that you shouldn't do anything to prevent the victim from being killed. If I were to be put in a situation where my life would be in danger in saving another I would take the risk in saving that one's life, I would rather feel as if I tried to save someone, than just stare at a person get killed. It's neither right or wrong decision, it depends on the person but I also believe that it's an instinct that we were born with.

[*Uronacid*]

War.... I don't think that soldiers killing people that are endangering their lives are murderous. They are merely defending our country/themselves/others.

Some people mentioned the war in Iraq. We aren't murdering people in Iraq. We aren't attacking civilians. We are attacking the people that are murdering the citizens of their own country.

Personally, I think we should pull out and let God handle it before we catch an STD.

[*WHIMSICAL 0NE*]

We aren't murdering people in Iraq. We aren't attacking civilians.

Actually, there has been plenty of cases where a soldier kills someone who's innocent. There's been men tried for murder during the war. Some soldiers also do inhuman things to "pass the time" while in Iraq...

[*Uronacid*]

Actually, there has been plenty of cases where a soldier kills someone who's innocent. There's been men tried for murder during the war. Some soldiers also do inhuman things to "pass the time" while in Iraq...

Those men are put on trial for "war crimes". You can murder someone in any situation. I think that the killing Jake is talking about occurs when a soldier kills an enemy soldier.