Createspam, Createblog has created a monster Options

[NoSex]

Alright. I have noticed recently that these boards have been suffering from an obscene amount of spam and one on one conversation based posting. The entire vibe and feel of the boards have, in my opinion, reached a kind of low. The debate threads are more stagnant than ever. The lounge is a waste of time. The entertainment threads suffer any kind of in-depth or worthwhile posts. It just seems like the community boards are really beginning to suck.

The problem is, how would we solve this problem?
Do we need to punish those spammers? If so, will traffic decrease to a useless degree?
Maybe we can try to attract some older parties?
The debate thread could become exclusive. But, then it might actually become entirely stagnant.
The idea for an art subforum seems to be a push in the right direction.
Or maybe I should just find a more suitable community board?

What do you guys think?

[*Programmer*]

i think uhhhhhh....i think hmmmmmm....i think....ughhhhhh

let me get back to you.

[AngryBaby]

its all elba

[Smoogrish]

Seriously, you're right. It makes cb more boring- even if it's exciting for the first few seconds, "ZOMG SOMEONE MADE A SCANDALOUS THREAD LOLOL!", it really gets annoying, especially when people think it's funny. IT'S NOT.

Yeah, what we need right now is more active non-idiot members. That would help a lot.

[edit]

I agree with the art subforum proposal.. a lot of the potential art subforum material is going into photography where it doesn't exactly fit. -shrugs-

[*Programmer*]

define what an idiot member is please. i am unfirmiliar with this term.

[*AngelicEyz00*]

Actually, Evan, it's not all me.

Besides, I haven't had this much fun in cB for a long time.

[*salcha4u*]

The entertainment threads suffer any kind of in-depth or worthwhile posts.

That would be us, Chinese Club


The problem is, how would we solve this problem?
We can't...or we can wait until summer's over
Do we need to punish those spammers? If so, will traffic decrease to a useless degree?
No, there is too many of us.
Maybe we can try to attract some older parties?
Hahahahaha
The idea for an art subforum seems to be a push in the right direction.
Another subforum?
Or maybe I should just find a more suitable community board?

[*incoherent*]

ill do like sally did...

The problem is, how would we solve this problem?
so many verbal warnings= some type of punishment. i think that spamming and one-on-one convos should be the least of our worries, or at least not taken so seriously. i know that it does get old and have done it myself, but sometimes its not hurting anything. if it gets too out of hand, intervention by a mod can result and verbal warnings are issued.
Do we need to punish those spammers? If so, will traffic decrease to a useless degree?
read above
Maybe we can try to attract some older parties?
sure
The debate thread could become exclusive. But, then it might actually become entirely stagnant.
dont go there, but at some point in time, things are going to seem to be less lively no matter if there are rules or not.
The idea for an art subforum seems to be a push in the right direction.
agreed
Or maybe I should just find a more suitable community board?
no, this place is fine.

define what an idiot member is please. i am unfirmiliar with this term.

you

[AngryBaby]

Actually, Evan, it's not all me.

Besides, I haven't had this much fun in cB for a long time.

lol me neither


i guess spam does suck for the people that post long ass posts and want everyone to read them.

[yummy_delight]

Mods definitely need to be stricter with punishing the spammers. A lot more warnings are definitely in order.But, the ironic thing is that a couple of the mods are actually participating in the spamming. So, I'm not sure how people would react to hypocrisy.

If we attracted older parties, I doubt they'd want to stay because the CB population is generally middle/high school kids. Worth a shot? Maybe. As long as they're not pervy ones who hang out in the booty/chest topics.

I hate to say it, but I already have been looking at other community boards because I'm frustrated with CB.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

We've had some lows before, but I think this one is particularly bad, since no ones actually trying to protest it, for fear of being a hypocrite or power hungry. Personally, I'd try harder if I hadn't lost the ability to do so about 6 months ago.

As it is, mods, f**k the tolerance thing. It's not working. It was a great idea, and some of us could have handled it, but the majority now cannot.

I also can't believe you're letting a literal spam thread stay open in forum games after all the controversy over Justin's thread. I'm not trying to blame you, it's just ridiculous.

[*AngelicEyz00*]

It's Evan's fault that I've been "spamming" lately. I usually dislike it when people have full on off topic convo's in threads.

Sorry but I can't help it when Evan keeps relpying back

[*Programmer*]

umm...some of the facts pointed out are true...some people antagonize each other into spamming...

Online. 12 user(s) are reading this topic. 0 guests, 2 anonymous members, 10 members.
jooleeah, Programmer, Libertie, L!ckitySplit, xbabyboo, Acid Bath Slayer, This Confession, SylverLunarSweetie, incoherent, peggysturr

and just by creating this topic...U've started yet another spam thread....we know it's wrong....but it's summer and most people really don't give a damn...which is sad

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Or maybe I should just find a more suitable community board?

I've had all of no luck with that one. I can't find any appealing and sufficeiently active boards that are entirely separate from cb. There is one that branched from it and is now completely independant of it, but still, I joined that through here.

[Looow]

When cB starts to get more stricter, it's when people get bored with it & leave.

[*mipadi*]

The issue has been raised before. Actually, many times before. In fact, most people feel it after a certain amount of time of being here.

I don't have the time to dig up another post I made on the issue, but it basically boils down to this: Most of cB is made up of what I call "drive-by posting". The threads are such that a person comes in, posts a response without reading any other part of the thread, then leaves, and never comes back to see how the thread develops.

Furthermore, people are too locked into sticking to the main point or going completely off-topic. Either the thread becomes spam, or all new people come in, read the first post, respond, and leave. Few people stick with a thread to watch it evolve and have a conversation.

Interesting posts—ones that require more than a quick response—are overlooked simply because they require more time to both read and respond intelligently. Unfortunately, these are generally the more conversation-worthy threads.

Basically, the only threads that stay on the first page are ones to which people can respond quickly, such as "What's on your mind right now?" or "Anoymous shoutouts"—ones that also don't generate any real discussions.

There are also a lot of issues with cB not being a community. I actually discussed this with Dani in the IRC channel the other night. cB is unique compared to most forums I go to, in which everyone is friendly and gets along. cB has small groups of people who get along, but as a whole, I don't find much of a sense of community.

Actually, I have found my thoughts on the issue, which were posted here:

• http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...3&#entry1991983
• http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...0&#entry1999780

[*This Confession*]

The problem is, how would we solve this problem?

_ wait til' summer is over more than likely. =/
Do we need to punish those spammers? If so, will traffic decrease to a useless degree?

_Punishing them may help in some ways but also it won't They'll get mad and they will tell others and it will just end up this big discussion and people will leave and yea it will just be unactive.

Maybe we can try to attract some older parties?

_I think this would be nice, or get people to bring more new people.

The debate thread could become exclusive. But, then it might actually become entirely stagnant.

_ the debate section has been doing quite well lately, I usually stay out of it. Not that big of a debate person so I'm not answering much questions conserning the debate section.

The idea for an art subforum seems to be a push in the right direction.
Or maybe I should just find a more suitable community board?

- I think it would be neat to have one. A lot of people do come here for the art stuff and stay out of the community center and other stuff so just having that art one would be nice and more than likely will bring more memers



sorry mis-spelled stuff. I haven't slept in close to 3 days =/


I agree wtih Micheal in many ways as well

[*AngelicEyz00*]

and just by creatign this topic...u've started yet another spam thread....

What? How?

[*incoherent*]

and just by creating this topic...U've started yet another spam thread....we knows it;s wrong....but it's summer and most people really don't give a damn...

explain how this is a spam thread just because there a 12 members in here voicing their opinion.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

^I think he assumes this will be consumed like everything else

[*incoherent*]

and yet he's probably one of the only people here that has said the least about the actual topic.

i think uhhhhhh....i think hmmmmmm....i think....ughhhhhh

let me get back to you.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I know. It's quite ironic.

And once again, as I'd said before, I agree with Michael. However, we still don't seem to actually be getting anywhere with that. We may have regressed, for that matter.

If I actually thought there'd be a point, I might have even talked James and Justin into starting another revolution. Sammi's rage aside, it did kind of get somewhere. And if nothing else, it was genuinely amusing.

[*mipadi*]

I think it's also because people feel that they can't get personal here, which results in no one really getting to know each other. Few people post things like "I was at work today and I had this epiphany…" or "This happened to me, and it really made me think…" Even when people do post that stuff, they always end it with something like "Has this ever happened to you?" And then a bunch of people post answers like "Yeah, happens to me," and move on, which pretty much negates the personality of the original post.

Posts don't always have to be general. You don't always have to ask something of the members. Sometimes you have to just post what's on your mind. (But then, of course, you get people with replies like "Save it for your Xanga" and whatnot…)

Also, I think too often people try to post things that will be long-lasting—will make this "all-powerful" 20 page barrier and spawn a "v2" thread. Threads don't have to be like that. I'd rather have a short, personal, interesting, provactive thread, rather than 20 pages of "Anonymous shoutouts".

[*Statues/Shadows*]

It's never a good sign when someone starts a thread with "v1" in the title. I really hate multiple versions of threads like this in general, though. It didn't used to be that way.

In a way, things seem too chat-centric still.

[*This Confession*]

I'd rather have a short, personal, interesting, provactive thread,

I would enjoy that
I just always get quoted =/
And then something happens.

In a way, things seem too chat-centric still.

well thats when we say theres chat rooms for that
and the treads are to say whats on your mind and your opinion of the topic and the first post in it.
not what everyone else said.

Although I'm quoting you guys and saying what i just did. oh well.

[Looow]

Hahaha or you're always quoting people ..

THEN something happens.

[push kicks]

Or maybe I should just find a more suitable community board?

i would explore my options, nothing wrong with posting on more than one forum. here's my theory.

you see, cB's high point was when designers like roxanne and trish got thousands of page views per day, and advertised createBlog on their wildly popular xanga pages. there has been a mass exodus since. i myself left for a few months and when i returned, all of the contributing members left and we are left with 12 and 13 year old spammers.

what do we do? our biggest draw is of course the layouts and scripts we provide. we used to be the number one site for xanga layouts. i think we have been dethroned now in the age of myspace. we need to go back to our 'deisgn site' roots, and attract more visitors through offering better myspace skins and scripts.

When cB starts to get more stricter, it's when people get bored with it & leave.

sure, cB rules have gotten strict, but lets not confuse cause and effect. cB did not cause people to leave because of the strict rules; spammers and dumb posts caused cB to get stricter rules. now strict members? that is another story.

i think that the gap between member groups is getting too big. we got those who go off topic in every single post, those who type proper with a condescending tone, and 'dumb members'. there's a small middle class. just like in economics, the middle class sustains the board, and we have none.

It's never a good sign when someone starts a thread with "v1" in the title. I really hate multiple versions of threads like this in general, though. It didn't used to be that way.

at least that ensures conversation. it's true though, the whole board is filled with stupid threads or threads that last 6 versions. this happens because of lack of creative heads and because all the good members left. so i think we need to go back to our 'design site' roots and attract members that frequent our site because of the myspace skin and scripts section.

[yummy_delight]

Threads don't have to be like that. I'd rather have a short, personal, interesting, provactive thread, rather than 20 pages of "Anonymous shoutouts".

Amen.

It's strange how relationships work here on CB. There are some people who make really close almost clique-ish friendships and people who are more alienated. People either get way too personal or not enough. Either way, it's self-serving. Community has lost its "community" aspect. People just want to say what THEY want to say and leave, regardless of whether or not it's actually relevant to the topic.

[*mipadi*]

at least that ensures conversation.

You're confusing "lots of posts" with "conversation". Conversation is an interactive experience that naturally grows and evolves over time. Many threads are with lots of posts is simply a long queue of posts with no interactive element—which is the crucial part for building a community.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

Actually, Evan, it's not all me.

Besides, I haven't had this much fun in cB for a long time.

Freal tho. I admit, i HAVE been spamming but i usually end the spam with a reply to a topic. ( Although I kind of splurged in spam on a few topics ) but cB has been the funnest these past few days because I don't care about an impression on here anymore. Im tired of holding my tongue and opinions cos someone might think wrongly of me. This is the internet.

[Looow]

^ Forreal. I just think you guys take this too seriously.

[push kicks]

You're confusing "lots of posts" with "conversation". Conversation is an interactive experience that naturally grows and evolves over time. Many threads are with lots of posts is simply a long queue of posts with no interactive element—which is the crucial part for building a community.

you're right. anonymous shoutouts, official confessions, i win, i lost, etc. are one sided threads in which people just post their post and leave. no conversation, no interaction, nothing. our biggest issues are that there are fewer good threads (some of this can be attributed to the loss of some members - namely brandon saunders), and fewer good members. also, cB is falling off in terms of being the #1 site for myspace layouts and scripts as previously stated. so we gotta make better threads - threads where everyone can talk and build off one another, and design better layouts. cool.

Im tired of holding my tongue and opinions cos someone might think wrongly of me. This is the internet.

this got nothing to do with being opinionated or holding your toungue. you can be opinionated without spamming. all spam does is alienate members, espeically newbies. you can have the same conversations on AIM or anywhere else. holding your toungue does not mean not spamming. come on now..

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Steven, I actually agree with pretty much everything you said.

On that note, I really loathe myspace. Let's not debate that; I just do.

I especially like your point about the growing division, though. On another board, people have sublety mentioned that they avoid certain forums because they;re overly cliquey, and generally unwelcoming. Obviously we're not going to get along perfectly all the time, but I think in general, we need to work on being civil to one another, rather than making more threads about homw much we hate each other. Thry're fun, sure, but they aren't constructive, and that's what we need: something to reuninte the community, somehow. If this mean letting go of old grudges, our biting our tounges instead of correcting someone's grammar, or improving one's own grammar for the sake of not pissing everyone else off, we should. One way or another, spam (or retaliation or aversion to the spam) needs to stop being our way of life here.


Anf those of you who are talking about this being fun: it's great once in a while, but you're driving the rest of us away. James and I got past that phase, now it's your turn.

[*mipadi*]

I think part of what leads to division in the "community" is the focus cB places on superlatives. How many threads are about the "member/staff member of the month", or who's posts you like the most, or who's posts you like the least, or who creates the most drama, or who you like the most, and so forth? I say, who cares? Do we need to devote entire threads to the most notable members of the community? Is that the sort of thing we really want to focus on? Or do we want to focus on actual content and conversation?

[*My Cinderella.*]

I've definately noticed this problem while browsing the lounge. Usually, I'd view a topic about something, and then suddenly having the whole topic discussion swallowed by random conversation.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Michael: Theoretically, maybe. Yearbook superlatives actually used to be fun, though.

I think the thread about whose posts you love/hate are pretty stupid, because if you're in that mindset,you're automatically going to write off whatever a particular person says as being stupid, or that someone else's input is predeterminitely superior. Not the threads themselves- I don't blame them- they just got me thinking. Every sisngle post a person makes is going to be different. Sometimes I'm going to sound like a condecending bitch, other times I'll just make a joke, give a thoughtful reply,say something absurd, etc etc. Between that and he cliquish member divisino, everything's becoming too black and white, and it doesn;t seem that we can reach a happy medium that way: one group overshadows the other, and then some just get lost in the shuffle.

I do feel like a bit of a dumbass promoting this bonding crap, but seriously, this is just miserable. I know it's just the internet (I hate it when people say that, by the way), but there's no harm in making something better when you have the chance.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

Steven, I actually agree with pretty much everything you said.

On that note, I really loathe myspace. Let's not debate that; I just do.

I especially like your point about the growing division, though. On another board, people have sublety mentioned that they avoid certain forums because they;re overly cliquey, and generally unwelcoming. Obviously we're not going to get along perfectly all the time, but I think in general, we need to work on being civil to one another, rather than making more threads about homw much we hate each other. Thry're fun, sure, but they aren't constructive, and that's what we need: something to reuninte the community, somehow. If this mean letting go of old grudges, our biting our tounges instead of correcting someone's grammar, or improving one's own grammar for the sake of not pissing everyone else off, we should. One way or another, spam (or retaliation or aversion to the spam) needs to stop being our way of life here.
Anf those of you who are talking about this being fun: it's great once in a while, but you're driving the rest of us away. James and I got past that phase, now it's your turn.

So you're saying we should hold back our thoughts and opinions and bite our tongue for the sake of pissing somebody else off ?

But otherwise I also do agree. We probably shouldn't have thread likes anonymouse shoutouts and who's posts we love/hate to read, because they dont get us to interact much, and we should have more threads where we delve deeper into our minds to connect. But to me, this is just an online forum. I really don't take it too seriously, while others take it way to seriously.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Um, no.

But following rules might be good.

Again, slightly hypocritical, but I can recognize not only that but also when I've gone too far. Knowing limits is very helpful.

[*mipadi*]

b' date='Jun 21 2006, 12:06 AM' post='2103455']
So you're saying we should hold back our thoughts and opinions and bite our tongue for the sake of pissing somebody else off ?

Not pissing someone else off != holding back one's thoughts. I think everyone should feel free to express his thoughts and feelings; Nicki is just suggesting it be done in a respectful manner. In other words, it's alright to tell someone that you disagree with his point of view and find it to be misguided; it's not alright just to call someone a bitch.

Of course, sometimes the mere act of disagreeing with someone does piss him off, but such a person just needs to deal with the fact that sometimes, people will disagree with him.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

Um, no.

But following rules might be good.

Again, slightly hypocritical, but I can recognize not only that but also when I've gone too far. Knowing limits is very helpful.

I have followed rules my entire time at cB. Only these past 3/4 days I have gone a a little overboard with the spammage and cB errupts into topics like this. I used to look at yours and James posts and be like "Omg ... why aren't mods stopping them ? Why havent they been suspended or anything for having ongoing conversation in lots of threads ? Why isn't she following the no spams rule, isnt she a mod ? " But now that im doing that im just like lighten UP. Maybe it's cos its the first time i've ever gotten off topic in threads but damn. cB like ... reacts crazy and says we are flooding boards with nonsense and we should all together eliminate certain things and focus back to only skins and layouts and womp womp.

I know my limit, but once in a while nobody can help but go over the line. I know right now people are talking about Me Lorena Elba and Evan but it's not like we've done this aaall the time. If it causes too many problems then maybe mods should PM us and ask us to stop instead of creating full out topics.

Not pissing someone else off != holding back one's thoughts. I think everyone should feel free to express his thoughts and feelings; Nicki is just suggesting it be done in a respectful manner. In other words, it's alright to tell someone that you disagree with his point of view and find it to be misguided; it's not alright just to call someone a bitch.

Of course, sometimes the mere act of disagreeing with someone does piss him off, but such a person just needs to deal with the fact that sometimes, people will disagree with him.

In my entire time at cB I have never gotten rude or called anyone out of their name. I think that is going overboard and I haven't done that.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

^It's a good thing I never accused you of doing otherwise, then. I'm speaking generally. Don't take it so personally. Same with Michael. We don't mean you, so there's no need to be that defensive.


But let's put it this way:

I'm not on particularly good terms with Jason or Steven. We all know this, whatever, doesn't matter anymore.

However, Jason responds to everything I say with excess curse words and name calling.

Steven is capable of intelligent speech and will still act respectfully.

Thus, I have no respecy for Jason whatsoever, no matter how many times he tries to tell me he's not actually an idiot, whereas I know Steven isn't an idiot, and although we don't usually agree, we respect each other enough that we are capable of doing so.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

^It's a good thing I never accused you of doing otherwise, then. I'm speaking generally. Don't take it so personally.

Let's put it this way:

I'm not on particularly good terms with Jason or Steven. We all know this, whatever, doesn't matter anymore.

However, Jason responds to everything I say with excess curse words and name calling.

Steven is capable of intelligent speech and will still act respectfully.

Thus, I have no respecy for Jason whatsoever, no matter how many times he tries to tell me he's not actually an idiot, whereas I know Steven isn't an idiot, and although we don't usually agree, we respect each other enough that we are capable of doing so.

Yeah I agree with you about Jason. In his posts he seems to take everything to the butt and starts calling people bitches and assholes and all these other obscenities. I didn't mean to seem to take it personally, cos I didn't. But when you said that for the sake of others we should bite our tongue, i got the impression you were saying we should not express our full opinion. I'm sorry i mistook your sentence/phrase or general meaning.

[*Libertie*]

Okay, this is gonna sound rude, and I'm honestly not trying to single anyone out. That's my disclaimer.

It's not about us trying to silence anyone with a bunch of rules or anything like that. Fact is, it's annoying. It's annoying having to scroll down past posts that I can't even attempt to relate to, and by the time I get to the bottom of the thread I realize that there's not a point in even trying to come up with a response.

I agree that the spam has gotten out of hand. I agree that cB on the whole is much too cliquey. It's rare for me to agree to something like this, because I tend to prefer taking a more laid-back approach, and the last thing I want to do is keep someone from speaking his or her mind. I think we can still have fun on the boards even if we have to restrain ourselves just a little bit in order to follow the rules.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

Ah, when I said that particular bit, I just meant that no matter how fun it is, the spam has to stop at some point, because the rest of us will go mad otherwise. That was all, and I speak from experience. I know I've had awful spam bursts, but that was far from my entire participation on the boards.

[NoSex]

We can all be candid without being malicious. We can speak our minds freely while still following the rules. The idea that this is a dichotomy between spamming and biting our tongues is absurd. Eitherway, I don't think anyone wants you to not speak your mind. But, if what we all have been seeing on the boards is the contents of everyone's mind, we don't have a prayer.

Sorry to be cynical, but it is beginning to seem hopeless. We need more meaningful, more honest, and more friendly threads and posts. The lounge is expected to be laid back, but that doesn't mean we should vandalize it.

I think we have capable and well-intentioned posters. But, I think we need a lot more. Although there have been a great number of useful and worthy suggestions relating to the boards, I think our biggest issue is our members. Very few members seem interested in actually creating a strong and meaningful community here. "Drive-by-posting" isn't the worst thing that could happen, but when nearly all the board consists of it, everything becomes characterized by monotony.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

Okay, this is gonna sound rude, and I'm honestly not trying to single anyone out. That's my disclaimer.

It's not about us trying to silence anyone with a bunch of rules or anything like that. Fact is, it's annoying. It's annoying having to scroll down past posts that I can't even attempt to relate to, and by the time I get to the bottom of the thread I realize that there's not a point in even trying to come up with a response.

I agree that the spam has gotten out of hand. I agree that cB on the whole is much too cliquey. It's rare for me to agree to something like this, because I tend to prefer taking a more laid-back approach, and the last thing I want to do is keep someone from speaking his or her mind. I think we can still have fun on the boards even if we have to restrain ourselves just a little bit in order to follow the rules.

And I agree with you about the spam getting out of hand, because I have been partly resposible for that. But then again, it's only been around 2/3 days that spam has gone overboard ( with me at least ) and cB reacts like this.

Ah, when I said that particular bit, I just meant that no matter how fun it is, the spam has to stop at some point, because the rest of us will go mad otherwise. That was all, and I speak from experience. I know I've had awful spam bursts, but that was far from my entire participation on the boards.

I understand that and agree.

[pshaa.shauna]

[enters conversation]

This is actually why I don't spend a lot of my time on cb anymore. The spamming and arguements...it gets irritating. Very irritating. I know it does.


But honestly, there isn't anything we can do about it because the people who do spam, honestly don't care. If they get suspended, they make another account, adidng more spam for revenge. It's a vicious cycle.

Also, this place isn't very newbie friendly. Just...it isn't.

This sound ridiculous, but separate the Lounge into two different forums. One for the "Anonymous Shoutouts" and others like it, and then one for the topics with serious discussion. Yeah, it's a bad idea, but really there's nothing else you can do.

[*Libertie*]

b' date='Jun 20 2006, 11:26 PM' post='2103497']
And I agree with you about the spam getting out of hand, because I have been partly resposible for that. But then again, it's only been around 2/3 days that spam has gone overboard ( with me at least ) and cB reacts like this.

Ah, I know you guys haven't been doing it for very long, it's mainly timing in this case. It's been going on for a while with other people, in more ways than just conversing back and forth between threads.. It's just that you happened to be doing it when this thread was made. I'd rather not point fingers anyway, I'd just like for there to be a general understanding with everyone that if we want cB to stay active, the spam needs to stop.

@Shauna - I've seen other forums (one other forum, but I won't say the name) that have one forum for General Discussion and another for Extended Discussion. It seems to work pretty well, but as a general rule the people who visit one forum don't mix well with the people who visit the other forum. It's already like that here to some extent. I don't think it's a bad idea, though, and it probably wouldn't hurt to send some of the threads in the Lounge to the Sandbox. =\

[push kicks]

yo, not to put anybody on blast or nothing but i have rarely if at all seen L!ckitySplit make any non spam posts. lol

[sadolakced acid]

spam is delicious.

the problem is, there aren't enough people to eat it, so it starts stinking.

seriously, without all the idiots on the boards, i would not enjoy it.

but you do have to have people to make snarky remarks in thier general direction.

seriously. spam is delicious.

expecially in debate. i mean, what fun is it when everone agrees? it's better when you have a worthy adversary, but that will almost always end in a stalemate. No, what's fun is when you're up against idiot spammers who stick around to make fools of themselves. Then you can beat them, and feel good about it.

there is , of course, a line between being snarky to spammers and just a plain ass. but hey, all the more fun.

[Tribal J_Rome]

This sound ridiculous, but separate the Lounge into two different forums. One for the "Anonymous Shoutouts" and others like it, and then one for the topics with serious discussion. Yeah, it's a bad idea, but really there's nothing else you can do.

It's a bad idea becuase it won't work.

[pshaa.shauna]

^Mmhmm

That's the point I was making, that's the only option really. And it's a bad option.

[push kicks]

DUH!

That's the point I wa smaking, that's the only option really. And it's a bad option.

why is it the only option?

[Tribal J_Rome]

Then why do it if it wont' work? How is THAT an option?

[pshaa.shauna]

...



I didn't mean for them to actually do it.

[*mipadi*]

I think we have capable and well-intentioned posters. But, I think we need alot more. Although there have been a great number of useful and worthy suggestions relating to the boards, I think our biggest issue is our members. Very few members seem interested in actually creating a strong and meaningful community here. "Drive-by-posting" isn't the worst thing that could happen, but when nearly all the board consists of it, everything becomes characterized by monotony.

That is the problem though: Most of the threads are "drive-by" threads. Look at the first page of any forum; very few of the threads feature actual discussion.

Look in Entertainment, for example. One of the active threads is "What's your favorite band?" or something like that. How much more general can one get? The thread is four pages long now. That's at least 76 posts, maybe as many as 100 replies. Do you think there is any discussion in that thread? Not likely. No one is going to read who 76-100 people like to listen to. No one cares about the majority of the members in that thread (no offense to anyone who posted, but it's the truth). It's not meaningful discussion.

Most of the threads on the first page of The Lounge exhibit the same behavior.

"Drive-by posting" isn't a bad thing if it happens in limited doses, no; but it's out of control on cB, and that is the problem. You're absolutely right when you say that few members seem interested in creating a strong and meaningful community, and that is exactly what I was getting at in the posts I cited back in the first post in this thread. The problem isn't just drive-by posting, but it's that everyone is so focused on that, that no one is interested in actually doing anything interesting. Perfect example: I tend to be verbose in my posting, and I've received a number of responses that say something along the lines of "Wow, I didn't read that whole thing, but…" And that's one post: Think about threads that stretch to two or three pages. No one is going to put effort into reading that, so long threads that require continuous involvement quickly die.

[NoSex]

b' date='Jun 20 2006, 11:26 PM' post='2103497']
But then again, it's only been around 2/3 days that spam has gone overboard ( with me at least ) and cB reacts like this.

I made this post in response to the entire atmosphere and condition of the community forums as of the past few months. This post, despite its topic title, is not just about spam nor was it made solely because of spam related concerns. I made this because I wanted everyone to have an open dialouge on the condition of these forums. I have enjoyed my time here, but have been disapointed recently by the declining quality of Creatblog. I want Createblog to be more welcoming, more enjoyable, more interesting, and more friendly and intimate than it has been.

[Tribal J_Rome]

...
I didn't mean for them to actually do it.

Thanks for wasting our time with that.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

spam is delicious.

the problem is, there aren't enough people to eat it, so it starts stinking.

seriously, without all the idiots on the boards, i would not enjoy it.

but you do have to have people to make snarky remarks in thier general direction.

seriously. spam is delicious.

expecially in debate. i mean, what fun is it when everone agrees? it's better when you have a worthy adversary, but that will almost always end in a stalemate. No, what's fun is when you're up against idiot spammers who stick around to make fools of themselves. Then you can beat them, and feel good about it.

there is , of course, a line between being snarky to spammers and just a plain ass. but hey, all the more fun.

Not this many. It's not right proportionately.


Also, all the new members I notice these days start acting just like them, because to fit in ther's nothing better to do.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

I want Createblog to be more welcoming, more enjoyable, more interesting, and more friendly and intimate than it has been.

Why of course. Back in 04, I remember cB being very welcoming. Everything was very layout heavy. People would make extremely beautiful vectors in which almost everyone seem to enjoy. As obvious as this sounds, I think cB is basically sucked out of fun and now people are getting bored. So people thus create spam in order to entertain themselves.

[NoSex]

"Drive-by posting" isn't a bad thing if it happens in limited doses, no; but it's out of control on cB, and that is the problem.

Absolutely.

So, I think our goal should seem obvious: Discourage meaningless impersonal "drive-by posting," while encouraging meaingful and personal posting.

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

[*mipadi*]

There's also the point that cB might simply be too big to be a cohesive community. cB has almost 250,000 members, and over 2 million posts. It's hard to keep up with the personal lives of even a fraction of the members on the board on a regular basis. I have no statistics on how many members are active on at least a weekly basis, but even if it's only 0.25%, that's still over 600 active members, which is a lot. That's as large as my high school, and I certainly didn't build lasting bonds with everyone else in my high school.

There might come a point where, yes, a group of members with common interests and goals do have to break off and form their own community, be it another forum, an AIM chat, an IRC chat, or just a close email connection.

Absolutely.

So, I think our goal should seem obvious: Discourage meaningless impersonal "drive-by posting," while encouraging meaingful and personal posting.

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

Fundamentally, I like that idea. I think it would do a lot to help build bonds. But I also don't like layering more and more rules onto the community. I don't like saying "This is what you can and can't post." I think the community needs to do the work. Don't like "drive-by" threads? Then don't post in them so much. Reward threads that add a personal element to cB by posting in them. Rules can only go so far in shaping a board's personality and culture.

[push kicks]

dude we got like 50 active members, don't worry

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I think I'll start going through old topics to see how things used to be, and what we used to talk about and whatnot. Tomorrow. Now I'm tired. But since we don't have a real idea of how to resolve things, we should at least view these good times to which we refer.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

I have just re-started 'Getting to know cB' from there, i think we can all make an effort to start bringing the community closer.

[*Libertie*]

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

I agree with that.. Actually, I posted it but it's way back on page 2, I'm used to getting overlooked.. but anyway. I think the Lounge should be a place where we can have actual meaningful discussion. Back when we started the "leniency" thing, I thought that if anything, the Lounge should stay as is and the Sandbox needs to be the unmoderated forum. Eh. Anyway, we've pretty much given up on that since it clearly didn't work.

[*mipadi*]

I think I'll start going through old topics to see how things used to be, and what we used to talk about and whatnot. Tomorrow. Now I'm tired. But since we don't have a real idea of how to resolve things, we should at least view these good times to which we refer.

And feel free to bring back any gems you find, or at least use them as inspiration!

[NoSex]

There's also the point that cB might simply be too big to be a cohesive community. cB has almost 250,000 members, and over 2 million posts. It's hard to keep up with the personal lives of even a fraction of the members on the board on a regular basis. I have no statistics on how many members are active on at least a weekly basis, but even if it's only 0.25%, that's still over 600 active members, which is a lot. That's as large as my high school, and I certainly didn't build lasting bonds with everyone else in my high school.

Which is hilarious, because I keep thinking we need more active members.
I think this is because we have so many members that don't ever seem to stand-out or really post anything worthwhile (or anything at all). I'm familiar with a decent amount of members, but only because I see them post everywhere, not really because I have found what they have posted to be interesting (in most cases it's the exact opposite). And, these members seem to show up most in those pesky "drive-by threads."

I think we just need more capable, well-intentioned, and dedicated members. Sometimes it feels like trying to find a needle in a haystack around here.

[Spirited Away]

Absolutely.

So, I think our goal should seem obvious: Discourage meaningless impersonal "drive-by posting," while encouraging meaingful and personal posting.

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

Discouraging "drive-by posting" means strict rules. While I have no problem with it, I am reminded by Jusun's thread about making the lounge an "anything-goes" zone.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Yeah, I remember a time, maybe a year to a year and a half ago, where everyone on the boards knew eachother and talked to eachother. The community was very tight-knit. And, people still followed rules. It was so much better then...

I think that the amount of active members we have now has made things difficult. When there is a large volume of people, there will inevitably be small "groups" because there's just no possible way that everyone can be friends with everyone.
graphics and html and so on and so forth. The focus is no longer on that. However, CB can still be fun.

Things I feel need to stop, very quickly:
- praising so called "bluntness"; it's not blunt, it's mean.
- spambombing; it's not funny, never has been.
- posting inside jokes from your own CB clique
- stop fighting for the sake of fighting, or entertainment

Things I feel need to happen:
- mods need to crack down on things that are happening so often and are against the rules; username sharing to avoid suspension and spamming are two of those. without cracking down, they'll just continue to happen because people can get away with it.
- more connection between mods & members; mods are sometimes alienated from members and members seem to have an extreme dislike for the mods they don't know and really like the ones they've talked to. i think we all just need to talk more, off the forums. i've been making an effort myself to go into chat more, but since i seem to be one of the most disliked mods for whatever reason, that hasn't changed much...

Yeah, that's all I can come up with right now...

[*mipadi*]

I think we just need more capable, well-intentioned, and dedicated members. Sometimes it feels like trying to find a needle in a haystack around here.

Precisely. I think partly the problem is the over-organization on cB. We have subforums for many, many topics, and I think some people start to post things just because we have a subforum for it, making it hard to find the meaningful threads. There are a lot out there, they're just scattered.

But aside from that, you're exactly right—well-intentioned threads are often drowned out by the habitual posting that happens.

Discouraging "drive-by posting" means strict rules. While I have no problem with it, I am reminded by Jusun's thread about making the lounge an "anything-goes" zone.

You posted my exact thoughts. I'm not in favor of layering more and more rules on cB; I think the community needs to take it upon themselves to reward "good" threads by posting in them and making them active—or making new good threads to replace the old. It shouldn't be a duty of the moderators to enforce good posting, and I also don't think we should sequester good posting into yet another forum.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I don't think we need more active members, so much as different active members. New blood. Or old blood. Just some change to shift the balance a bit. When Kathleen and Ariel came back for a bit, I enjoyed that, because we made silly topics that served to entertain us, yet weren't exclusive or spam.

A while back in forum games we had "forum dare or dare" which was really fun till we got shut down for making too many stupid topics, but still some interesting stuff came out of it, like the topic I had Sammi make on how to choose a sexual harrassment victim. However, when I tried to bring back the topic, it didn't work, and I am 99.9% that or that sort of thing wouldn't work now, either, knowing people's enthusiasm and what sort of crap they find funny

Which reminds me, the owls in member photos have got to stop. That stopped being funny...well, it wasn't ever funny, but now it's just reallu played out.

[sadolakced acid]

the problem isn't the village idiot. it's we don't have a villiage to properly make fun of them.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

We did until people started caring about Jason. And Jay left a while ago. Yen made friends. Susan got run off. Let's see, who else...

[NoSex]

I think some people start to post things just because we have a subforum for it, making it hard to find the meaningful threads.

I definately agree. The kind of topics (most of which are "drive-by") we have in many of the subforums seem as if they would never have existed given that the subforum was not present. Plus, many of these threads really confuse me as to what everyone's intent is with their creation. It couldn't possibly be a genuine interest, given the nature and way people treat the threads.

But aside from that, you're exactly right—well-intentioned threads are often drowned out by the habitual posting that happens.

Agreed, and that is why I feel we need to start placing these general and impersonal "drive-by threads" inside of the sandbox. However that needs to be done, whether or not that means more rules, I think is becoming necessary. I don't think I could cringe at a rule that will, ultimately, benifit the community greatly without any kind of censorship or extreme control. I mean, the "drive-by threads" could live and breathe, but they would have to find living quarters inside the Sandbox, so that we can have room for more meaningful threads.

I don't think we need more active members, so much as different active members. New blood. Or old blood.

Agreed. We just need some new members who actually remain active and contribute to the community. In order for that to happen, we may need to fix our biggest problems first, so this place is that much more welcoming, entertaining, and interesting - for everyone (or at least, more people, different people. Can't make everyone happy).

[sadolakced acid]

i ahve a feeling i'm getting ignored.

it's not a good feeling.

i would like it to stop now.

[*mipadi*]

I think two issues are the general community's obsession with post count and attention. I've often considered in my mind the idea of removing post count from user info displays and profiles. I think the idea would be highly controversial, but I think removing any indication of a user's post count status might help reduce spam and nonsense posting. Let's be honest—many people post simply to increase post count. I say let's remove it entirely.

The other issue is attention. A lot of people post crap just to get their name out there. As cB grows, it becomes harder and harder to gain notice, so people resort to tacky strategies: posting excessively, picking fights, spamming, and so forth. I think this goes back to cB's focus on superlatives: So many members are trying to be the best or most prolific member, and the only way to do that is to drown out everyone else.

Nate, in the beginning, you noted that one solution might be to form another, smaller community. I used to be opposed to that idea, but lately I've been feeling it's not a bad thing. I belong to several other forums and several IRC-based communities. Some of them are so small that they're barely active, and that's no fun. The ones that are the most fun are the ones that have enough members that you can expect to see a few dozen new posts a day, but few enough that you can, in essence, keep up with the personal details of each member, or at least the most active ones; and be sure that the new posts are interesting, insightful, and engaging. I feel those have the most sense of community.

Some members might see users like Dani and I talk about the IRC channel a lot. The IRC channel is often times dead; mostly it's just populated by Dani and I, or more likely just Dani, or in some cases just me. But when there are a few people in there—two or four or six or eight—it's a lot of fun. I think Dani and others would agree we have some really interesting discussions. Sure, it's small, but it's small enough to be personal, and that's what makes it interesting.

So maybe your suggestion, which seemed to be more of a "Plan B" sort of idea, isn't such a bad idea at all. Forming a smaller, more personal community with like-minded members (such as what happened with Hitherston, and I know I'm probably putting my neck out there by even suggesting the founders had the right idea) isn't a bad idea if it means forging more personal connections—and it also doesn't mean abandoning cB entirely. You may have been on to a really good idea by posting that suggestion.

[sadolakced acid]

and the feeling keeps continuing.

i propose a split of different sorts.

split cB into houses.

i shall, of course, be in the black house.

each house would have thier own lounge. maybe other stuff can come later, but the main point is for smaller communities within the whole.

yea, i say get rid of post counts. Keep those little blue boxes though.

[pshaa.shauna]

I'm paying attention you Justin. Can I be in the black house? NO THE CHOCOLATE HOUSE!

And yes, Hitherston did have the right idea. The competition did bring us together. *is not crossing a line is not crossing*

[chillwiththespam]

^

haha. you're the best.

[sadolakced acid]

mm.

and we could use a myers-briggs test to put you in a house with people you'd get along with.

so cool!

we could Dr. Phil the newbies!

[SarahxJoy]

"Dr. Phil the newbies", haha.
Love that. Although I'm not sure that'd keep them around for long.

[NoSex]

Let's be honest—many people post simply to increase post count. I say let's remove it entirely.

No aversion to such an idea.

I think this goes back to cB's focus on superlatives: So many members are trying to be the best or most prolific member, and the only way to do that is to drown out everyone else.

I would have to agree that this attention obsession is definately a huge problem. We have to trash this middle school popularity contest mentality.

So maybe your suggestion, which seemed to be more of a "Plan B" sort of idea, isn't such a bad idea at all.

Although I don't believe I explicitly suggested the creation of an entirely new community, I am not in any way opposed to it. An experiment of sorts would actually be a welcomed thing on this side. Sounds like we could all form something great.

[pshaa.shauna]

we could Dr. Phil the newbies!

That would keep the newbies away.

[chillwiththespam]

..and inevitably this thread is turning into a spam topic.

[sadolakced acid]

i hate that feeling.

[SarahxJoy]

I would have to agree that this attention obsession is definately a huge problem. We have to trash this middle school popularity contest mentality.

..I think that'd be just a tad difficult, seeing as how a great deal of our members are IN middle school.

[sadolakced acid]

me want attention now!!

well, actually, just more opinions abotu my idea?

seperate houses, each have a private forum, a bit of competition between them.

seperate member groups, even.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

How would you distribute them? How would one be sure someone would not skip to another group? Would people be able to switch groups?

[chillwiththespam]

^

you're not funny anymore. you can stop.

[pshaa.shauna]

^x3 I honestly like that idea, but it's too much work, we have 398465239845629 members.

[NoSex]

..I think that'd be just a tad difficult, seeing as how a great deal of our members are IN middle school.

I would suggest an age limit. But, I think I know how impossible that would be.
Either way, I think an age limit could actually help.

[sadolakced acid]

not that many active ones though.

cut the active ones up, have a "feral" group, and anyone alive in the feral group can get put in a new one if they wake up.


the thing about an age limit is, if people lie and say they're older, they'll usually act a bit older.

[*disco infiltrator*]

I would suggest an age limit. But, I think I know how impossible that would be.
Either way, I think an age limit could actually help.

We have one. 13+. People don't follow it.
I don't think we should move it up, though. I joined when I was 13...

[pshaa.shauna]

I say let's do it. And if other people don't like I'm doing it anyways. I'm in the Chocolate house. Justin, you're the God of Chocolate, you're the head.

[chillwiththespam]

lalallalala
seon ho complains about spam and then spams

[sadolakced acid]

but chocolate melts! didn't willy wonka warn you?

[*Libertie*]

We have one. 13+. People don't follow it.
I don't think we should move it up, though. I joined when I was 13...

I agree, and people like Tina are 13 and still mature enough to still positively contribute. =]

[NoSex]

We have one. 13+. People don't follow it.
I don't think we should move it up, though. I joined when I was 13...

Opps.
Somehow though, the surface evidence doesn't seem to suggest any such limit.

I actually wouldn't hate seeing it moved up though.
Even if it was for just a single year.

I agree, and people like Tina are 13 and still mature enough to still positively contribute. =]

Alright. I take it back.
No concerns over an age limit.
How about a maturity limit, now how impossible is that?!

[pshaa.shauna]

Pshhhh, then you drink it, but fine, IM IN YOUR HOUSE THOUGH!