Pledge of Allegiance, bye bye "Under God" Options

[*NatiMarie*]

Ok, so I heard that the 'Under God' part of the Pledge of Allegiance is going to be taken off.

What do you think? Should it have stayed? Will these be action be done, or will continue to stay in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Should the Pledge of Allegiance even contain 'Under God' in it?

[EmeraldKnight]

I think it should, just because of convention and that fact that its been here the same for so long... i mean, if it offends ppl, they shouldnt force everyone to say it, but i dont think that they should change it either... i mean.. realli, we shouldnt change the pledge of allegiance, which affects thousands of kids across America, just for a minority of ppl that might be offended by it... ppl choose whether to recite it or not, but dont change it for so many others

[chimpanzee]

i dont see why it should be there. it is unnecicary and offends some people. out with it!!!

[WildGriffin]

kids have a choice to say the pledge as it is, i don't see why it has to be adjusted. if they're going to take "under god" away from the pledge, they need to go ahead and take it off the money too.

[Spirited Away]

Even though I'm not a religious person, I want to keep the "under God" part. It doesn't bother me and I think it's fitting.

[*Kathleen*]

I don't honestly see what the big controversy here is. This atheist just wants to piss off a bunch of religions to get attention. No, I don't think we should. If you don't want to say it, fine. Don't do it to get attention.

[stryker76]

i agree i see no reason to remove it...i mean no one says you have to say it...so say the pledge and skip that part....go dont say the pledge...in my school we have been sayin it every morning since Kindergarten.....so im sorry if there are some mornings i dont want to stand to say the pledge....it doesnt mean i dont love my country ne less

[strice]

i skip the pledge all together. i stopped when the war began.

[EmeraldKnight]

Why's that?

[strice]

uh, i thought it was obvious. i was very antiwar from the start and i felt betrayed by my country when we went to war.

[EmeraldKnight]

uh, i thought it was obvious. i was very antiwar from the start and i felt betrayed by my country when we went to war.

well... i didnt know you were anti-war.. and yeah.. i see how that works, i dont like how some schools force kids to say the pledge.. i mean.. they realli shouldnt alter it, but they shouldnt force it upon ppl either

[*NatiMarie*]

I just don't say the pledge of allegiance. We're not forced to in our classrooms. I just sit down. I could say it, because I don't really mind, but I choose not to. 1) Too lazy and 2) Not really that significant to me. My laziness gets to me once again.

[EmeraldKnight]

I just don't say the pledge of allegiance. We're not forced to in our classrooms. I just sit down. I could say it, because I don't really mind, but I choose not to. 1) Too lazy and 2) Not really that significant to me.  My laziness gets to me once again. 

haha well, we dont do it in high school anymore, but when i was in middle school, the had them on the announcements, and our teachers MADE us stand up and say them.. plus we'd look like a fool if we didnt

[*kryogenix*]

uh, i thought it was obvious. i was very antiwar from the start and i felt betrayed by my country when we went to war.

do you plan to move to another country?

I just don't say the pledge of allegiance. We're not forced to in our classrooms. I just sit down. I could say it, because I don't really mind, but I choose not to. 1) Too lazy and 2) Not really that significant to me.  My laziness gets to me once again.

right. imagine if our founding fathers as well as current soldiers were "too lazy" and "didn't think fighting for the US was significant."

haha well, we dont do it in high school anymore, but when i was in middle school, the had them on the announcements, and our teachers MADE us stand up and say them.. plus we'd look like a fool if we didnt

you don't have to say the pledge. if you got in trouble, you could make a big deal out of it with the school administration.

[Spirited Away]

When I was in high school, the pledge was recited once a week, and people do not have to do it. But when there's someone who decides to skip saying it, the rest of the class would glare at him/her.

I think that it's disrespectful to your country and to yourself. Kryogenix, said it, our founding fathers sacrificed their lives for this country's independence, the least you can do is show some respect for their blood. Not to mention that you (or your parents) chose to settle here. If this country is 'bad', that means your (or your parents) made a bad decision to move here. That doesn't boad to well on your part of decision making.

[*instantmusic*]

I thought they decided to keep the 'under God' part.

Anyway, I say the pledge. Its my duty and a thankyou to the ones who started America.

[*Kathleen*]

thought they decided to keep the 'under God' part.

Yeah - in some states, they took it out. We still have it in ours.

Anyway, I say the pledge. Its my duty and a thankyou to the ones who started America.

I completely agree...we should. I wish everyone had this thought in mind when saying it.

[strice]

do you plan to move to another country?

yes, i do.

[ThePrincessofTKD]

kids have a choice to say the pledge as it is, i don't see why it has to be adjusted. if they're going to take "under god" away from the pledge, they need to go ahead and take it off the money too.

the money part is true. ["in God we trust"...look for yourself] they would have to change many things that say "under God"...in u.s. history, we had to memorize the gettysburg address spoken by Abraham Lincoln

(taken from the gettysburg address)
"that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain--that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom---and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth"

one of my classmates doesn`t even say the pledge. it doesn`t hurt NOT to say the pledge. it`s your right to say it or not.

[*AngelicEyz00*]

i never say the pledge =\ I just stand up, put my arm over my chest, and look at the flag

[princess2113]

yes it should...this nation was found under God..n shuld continue to state that in our pledge...we dont force anyone to say anything in there or any of it at all...they can choose not to say if they wish...but those of us who believe we r a seperate nation b/c of Him have a rite to state so in there...and also it never states a specific "god"...it culd either be God...or if u want to interpret it differantly..no1 is throwing u in jail for it...only antheist n sume agnostics have a prob. with it

[juliar]

Well, I say the Pledge of ALleigance. Partly. Most of the time I stop before I get to underGod. But most of the people in my class who are religious and not religious dont care either...so its not that much of a controverst with me.

[Spirited Away]

yes it should...this nation was found under God..

I disagree, this nation was founded under the belief of freedom, not God.

and also it never states a specific "god"...it culd either be God...or if u want to interpret it differantly..no1 is throwing u in jail for it...only antheist n sume agnostics have a prob. with it

That's true, it could be any god, so I agree that "under God" shouldn't bother anyone except of Atheists.

[princess2113]

I disagree, this nation was founded under the belief of freedom, not God.



That's true, it could be any god, so I agree that "under God" shouldn't bother anyone except of Atheists.

hum yesh babe this was found under God...its history...thats y all the coins say "In God we trust" and when u go to court u swear on a Bible...in school u learn pilgrams came for religious freedom...rite? so they came to worship God

[Spirited Away]

hum yesh babe this was found under God...its history...thats y all the coins say "In God we trust" and when u go to court u swear on a Bible...in school u learn pilgrams came for religious freedom...rite? so they came to worship God

Actually, ehehe, they came here for the FREEDOM to serve God. Not under God's name. There's a difference.

I learn more about pilgrims than you'd think, but what do you know? They came here for the freedom to serve God as they wished.

And you're right, it is for religious freedom, but there were many different groups who wanted to serve God the way they wanted to. There were huguenots, quakers, puritans, and others. NOT just pilgrims, "babe".

And because of this religious freedom, you're facing the whole problem of atheists disagreeing about "Under God". They have a freedom not to pursue religious means just like you have a freedom to serve God.

There's two sides to every story, please respect that.

[princess2113]

Actually, ehehe, they came here for the FREEDOM to serve God. Not under God's name. There's a difference.

I learn more about pilgrims than you'd think, but what do you know? They came here for the freedom to serve God as they wished.

And you're right, it is for religious freedom, but there were many different groups who wanted to serve God the way they wanted to. There were huguenots, quakers, puritans, and others. NOT just pilgrims, "babe".

And because of this religious freedom, you're facing the whole problem of atheists disagreeing about "Under God". They have a freedom not to pursue religious means just like you have a freedom to serve God.

There's two sides to every story, please respect that.

they came to freely worship God...i never specified a God...also pilgirms r...A religious devotee who journeys to a shrine or sacred place.
One who embarks on a quest for something conceived of as sacred.
A traveler.
Pilgrim One of the English Separatists who founded the colony of Plymouth in New England in 1620.
frum dictionary.com
no1 ever said a certain religion...n i dunt think im being disrespectful to either side so chill...this IS debate u know...just cause im rite doesnt mean ya need to get all ansy

[InfamousOwen]

Its not that different from people who sue others for some stupid reason. Its about the attention and bragging rights for putting the nation in an uproar. And they are of course in their rights to do it. Thats the whole point of this country. We are all protected under the same rights.

The under god thing is just like the constitution....it is pretty general so that as times change so do they. Our forefathers were pretty smart peoples :)

[Spirited Away]

Hehe, it's kind of funny that you say you're right.. but okay. An opinion's an opinion, that's all.

I can't help it but to say that you're historically... off. But anyway, you had to look up the definition of a pilgrim, and you're talking about them? Whoa.

Anyway, back to topic. Like I said, there are other sides, not just your side. Just because you believe in something, it doesn't make it "right". There's a freedom to say "under God" and there is a freedom to not say it.

Um, by the way, you only mentioned pilgrims, and not other religions, so I figured you favor one over the others. Please be specific next time.

Call me 'ansy' if you want, but i thought that was disrespectful.

[princess2113]

Hehe, it's kind of funny that you say you're right.. but okay. An opinion's an opinion, that's all.

I can't help it but to say that you're historically... off. But anyway, you had to look up the definition of a pilgrim, and you're talking about them? Whoa.

Anyway, back to topic. Like I said, there are other sides, not just your side. Just because you believe in something, it doesn't make it "right". There's a freedom to say "under God" and there is a freedom to not say it.

Um, by the way, you only mentioned pilgrims, and not other religions, so I figured you favor one over the others. Please be specific next time.

Call me 'ansy' if you want, but i thought that was disrespectful.

i looked up the definition to put a souce b/c it seems like every1 likes that. ur wrong n ur talking abt them...pilgirm isnt a religion...and i said the same thing abt freedom..i said u have a rite to say it but we dunt force ne1 they have a right to remain silent...i dunt FAVOR one over the other...n it wasnt disrespectful i have a right to my opinions...if u dunt like hearing them either deal with it or go to a differant section b/c ur in debate...n this is like the 3rd post where uve written extreamly rudely to me n i'd appriciate if u were nicer or dunt comment at all

[Spirited Away]

n it wasnt disrespectful i have a right to my opinions...

I wasn't the one who called someone 'ansy' because that person didn't believe the same thing as I. I believe that person was you. You're saying I'm rude, when I believe that you're rude. But that's okay.

Did I say that pilgrims is a religion? You're the one who brought it up.

I'm confused now...

Anyway, back to topic. There's nothing wrong with keeping "under God" in the pledge. I just hope that people who are religious do not think that this is some sort of victory over non-religious people.

[onenonly101]

You don't have to say the pledge so why take out "under God". if you don't like then don't say it.

[divinity_star]

I have just thought about something since we just finished Mock Trials...When a witness goes up to the stand the clerk asks them "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God"... I wonder if people will try to have the word God removed from their too.

[whomps]

Whenever we stand up to recite the pledge of the allegiance at first period.. I just say "under God".. in fact, I don't even notice I'm saying it. It's just like "blah blah one nation under god indivisible with liberty and blah blah blah"

Yeah.
I kinda think it should be taken out..

[angel-roh]

heehee i forgot how to say it...lols HAHAHA i forgot how it goes-_-;;

[princess2113]

You don't have to say the pledge so why take out "under God". if you don't like then don't say it.

my point exactly

[cornflakes]

It doesn't belong there. It was added late in the 1900's I believe.
This nation should not sanction one religion, it is a government free from religion, or used to be.

btw:uninspiredfae you are very smart, sorry I said what I said in the other thread ;)

[ryfitaDF]

i have the right to not resite or stand for the pledge of allievgence and i take full advantage of it.

besides it was manifest destiny that told us to take over this hunk of dirt. why not mension god in the pledge?

[shawty_redd]

yes, i do.

ur moving because of the war?

[*Kathleen*]

It doesn't belong there. It was added late in the 1900's I believe.
This nation should not sanction one religion, it is a government free from religion, or used to be.

You don't have to say it if you don't want to, you know.

I think it should, just because of convention and that fact that its been here the same for so long... i mean, if it offends ppl, they shouldnt force everyone to say it, but i dont think that they should change it either... i mean.. realli, we shouldnt change the pledge of allegiance, which affects thousands of kids across America, just for a minority of ppl that might be offended by it... ppl choose whether to recite it or not, but dont change it for so many others

it has only been here for 54 years, and while we leave that in our PLEDGE which REPRESENTS! our country, why dont we just adopt religious laws??

You don't have to say it if you don't want to, you know.

sorry double posting but!!

okay new citizens, whom are mainly NOT CHRISTIAN! must recite the pledge to become a citizen, so basically they are pledging their allegegince "under god"

i am sorry but that just disturbes me..

[*Kathleen*]

So what do you suggest they do? Honestly, it makes me mad when anyone doesn't say the pledge. Okay, okay, if you're stubborn, fine, don't say "under God", but other than that, I think everyone should recite the pledge.

[ComradeRed]

So what do you suggest they do? Honestly, it makes me mad when anyone doesn't say the pledge. Okay, okay, if you're stubborn, fine, don't say "under God", but other than that, I think everyone should recite the pledge.

You can't force people to take an oath, except when asking for public office. It says so in the Constitution.

[Spirited Away]

Ahem, I was naturalized about 6 years ago, and I recited the pledge with pride, 'under god' and all, even though I'm not a Christian.

It is NOT promising allegiance to God, but rather, to a country that was founded by those who harbored a wish to have freedom (and for the majority of them, it was freedom of religion).

This country allows them to serve whatever religion they wish, saying 'under God' is an option.

[*Kathleen*]

Blah but I doubt the people that wrote the Constitution were thinking about all the people who are too lazy to say it, or the ones that are so incompetent they don't know why they're not saying it.

[orlando_bloom_lu...]

wow... i learn soo many new things everyday... i never knew that...... so instead of saying "under God" then what do we say?


<------stupid

[Spirited Away]

wow... i learn soo many new things everyday... i never knew that...... so instead of saying "under God" then what do we say?


<------stupid

You don't say anything in its stead. You just don't say 'under God' in the pledge, you would skip it and continue with 'indivisable'.

Edit:: if you're willing to learn, you won't remain stupid...

But I don't think you're stupid.

[iloveudouloveme]

well you see. This topic came up rather shocking to me. I wonder if you read the entire article ?From my side and point of view, from the article I understood and read in history, this is a Supreme court case. It is not yet to be decided upon until mid June or so. An atheist father has brought his case to court and they have not ruled. The 'under God' part of the pledge is only banned in a select states, I recall nine or so. This is so because of the tied vote of the supreme court justices 4-4, and these certain states have their 'law' (I can't quite remember) that considers the tie decision a ruling unless the case is thrown out. Also under question is the athiest father's ability to even take this case into court, he wishes to not have his daughter's school say the pledge the original way. Although, the child's mother wishes to have her daughter say ' under God' in the pledge and has full custodial rights. So if the case is thrown out because of the father's questionable right, or another constitutional reason no matter, because this will no longer be an issue. Everyone who recites the pledge should say it right. with the words ' under God'. This is how our founding fathers recited it, this is how it shoud be read. The constitutional right in my mind of this father is absent.

[Retrogressive]

no! even if some people don't belive in god, it's a peice of america's history. why should our history be cut off? this country was founded on god and that pledge has been said proudly by our fore fathers. this country was founded on god, can't change that without a time machine...

[rabidsquirrels99]

This atheist just wants to piss off a bunch of religions to get attention.

I don't believe in god, but I believe in freedom. I recite all of the pledge except for the "under god" part. That way, I'm letting people say what they believe in, and keeping my beliefs. And I don't think the people who started this issue are trying to piss anyone off or get attention. They just have different opinions than your own and want to voice them, just like everyone else. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[PinoyOtaku]

It is NOT promising allegiance to God, but rather, to a country that was founded by those who harbored a wish to have freedom (and for the majority of them, it was freedom of religion).

Nevermind, she got what I was about to explain..

[stryker76]

After much thought i feel that the pledge needs or should be an optional thing for students.....much like it is after school...you dont have to say it....but i mean think about it...it almost sounds like government brain wash we have to say the pledge every day at the beginning of school or we get yelled at...ill be 19 in 6 days and i have had to say the pledge every day of my life that spent in school i think it is quite advice that im not goin to do nething against my country and that i do have respect for those that defend my country....my not sayin the pledge in the morning does not show how much i care for my country it just shows that i am easily controlled by my government......

[azndragn]

i think it should stay why are they taking it out? i dont get it...this nation was founded under God....why change it now? if ppl dont like it...dont say it....simple as that

[m@dcow]

SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE!!!!!
that's all

[shortie09]

i saw a story of how a man ((athiest)) didn't want his daughter to recite the 'under God' part of the Pledge of Allegiance because of his religion, while the girl's mother didn't mind. this man went to the supreme court to argue his case...


and to ask for the removal of the 'under God' phrase from the Pledge.


our nation was made with its countrymen with strong belief in God, but a lot changed since then; it's confusing, and since all of this free religion and etc., there's been much controversy. i've no right to say if we should have it or not. quite a load for president bush since his presidency, don't you think?

[bibliomania]

I think that it sholudn't say "under God" because every time I say the pledge, I feel like I'm brainwashed... I don't even believe in God... I mean... including those words, "Under God" makes the pledge even more meaningless for me.

[DesperateXMeasur...]

I say that it should stay.
No one ever said that they had to say the pledge.

[Yemmerz]

it should stay. it took me long enough to remember it that way.

but really....if you dont wanna say it dont say it. because the fact is that this country was founded by christians. and we cant change that. changing the under God part would be disrespectful to our founding fourfathers.

[tWinKliEmE]

erm, i think they should keep the under god part because .. these kids have freedom to not say the pledge... no ones makin them .. so they dont even have to say the pledge... and like i think it fits there..

[BeyondElite]

I think it should not! Man has no power to be a god. Therefore they should respect it, for many american people believe in God.

[divinity_star]

Why is it such a big deal now? Did you have problems reciting it in elementary school? Did you run home crying because it offended you? Why is it so different now because you can think about things?...I really don't get why it should be taken off...people have nothing better to do than to create problems in the world...

[LatinaLady]

i beliveit should be taken out. i belive in god but manyothers dont and i always think of the poepl who dont and that is why i dont say the pledge no more. i did wheni was yuong cuz i didnt understand it

[DisneyPrincessKa...]

This country was based on Christianity. Like it or not. Look on the dollar bill, it says "In God we trust" and if you go to DC there are a lot of religious references on the buildings. So, are we going to remodel DC and change our currency? Doubtful. Why should we change the Pledge?

Honestly, this won't affect me directly though. I go to Catholic school and we say the pledge like we've always said it. When I have a Civil Air Patrol meeting we keep the part that says "One nation under God."

Another note about this- have you ever noticed how people usually say it "One nation (pause) under God." Did you know that's wrong? A lot of people put the pause there but it isn't supposed to go there. I learned that at camp.

[sadolakced acid]

i skiped under god for a while, cus it implied one god. i got tired of that and stoped saying it altogether. they still make me stand up and face the flag.

[JlIaTMK]

wasnt it taken off because someone that was atheist complained that they didnt want their daughter to say the word god in the pledge?

i agree with that.... its freedom of speech

neway, it also mentions 'one nation under god' so i dont think that is true

wouldnt, if u think about it this way, all nations be under god

[Spirited Away]

^ No, "under God" stays because the atheist father "didn't have legal authority" to speak for his daughter, and she's the one who has to say it, not him.

[inn0centmarianne]

I say that it should stay.
No one ever said that they had to say the pledge.

I know, its been here longer than all those people who don't want to recite it, so sit your butt down, and dont speak it,just sit there and look dumb. actually I had a friend in elementary who was jahovahs witness and he just stood up, and didnt say anything because it was against his religion, but okay. I dont care, I been saying it since I was four, I dont have a problem with it. freedom of speech, for those who want to say it, let them, you dont have to.

[xoirene]

i think it should stay because america was founded under religion, it's main purpose was for religious freedom, so even if some people don't believe in a god, america was still started because the idea that there is a god, whether or not there really is.

[Lena]

yes it should...this nation was found under God..n shuld continue to state that in our pledge...we dont force anyone to say anything in there or any of it at all...they can choose not to say if they wish...but those of us who believe we r a seperate nation b/c of Him have a rite to state so in there...and also it never states a specific "god"...it culd either be God...or if u want to interpret it differantly..no1 is throwing u in jail for it...only antheist n sume agnostics have a prob. with it

"antheists" okaaay...I'll admit that I definately make type-o's cause I'm usually writing these up pretty quickly...but could you give a little more respect to the "antheists" out there and spell it right? let's jsut hope that was a type-o.

personally I don't really care...under god...under pudding...under bloomberg...under bush...under clinton...under chocolate...whatever you want. i think of the pledge as poetry...and we need poetic lisence!

well...actually i was hoping to quote a post that mentioned that you swear on the bible in court. it's not there...oh well. it's late...i'm tired...I don't quite remember what exactly you say (cause I don't like killing things I do not recall perfectly) but you don't have to swear to the bible. You can say something else. Personally I wouldn't make a big deal of it on the stand...cause it doesn't really make a difference...cause it's just tradition that doesn't really hurt anybody.

[shortie09]

^ No, "under God" stays because the atheist father "didn't have legal authority" to speak for his daughter, and she's the one who has to say it, not him.

he should have considered it first, i guess. but other parents are arguing over this too, so it's 'it's good' vs. 'it's wrong'.


proposal denied

local parents' views

[ryfitaDF]

Actually, ehehe, they came here for the FREEDOM to serve God. Not under God's name. There's a difference.

I learn more about pilgrims than you'd think, but what do you know? They came here for the freedom to serve God as they wished.

And you're right, it is for religious freedom, but there were many different groups who wanted to serve God the way they wanted to. There were huguenots, quakers, puritans, and others. NOT just pilgrims, "babe".

And because of this religious freedom, you're facing the whole problem of atheists disagreeing about "Under God". They have a freedom not to pursue religious means just like you have a freedom to serve God.

There's two sides to every story, please respect that.

testify!

but i still stand with my "manifest destiny told us to take america from the indians" so "under god" is ok.

[Spirited Away]

testify!

but i still stand with my "manifest destiny told us to take america from the indians" so "under god" is ok.

which part?

IF you have noticed that was a reply to a Bible thumper, but I'll be glad to clarify things if you would like.

Maybe it's the part about people coming to America for religious freedom? I said "the freedom to serve God" because in general, colonists were people who served God. Do you disagree with that?

he should have considered it first, i guess. but other parents are arguing over this too, so it's 'it's good' vs. 'it's wrong'.


proposal denied

local parents' views

I bet he did consider it extensively before bringing this to court. And I disagree with the article "proposal denied" just a bit. I didn't think it was a ruling for the wrong reason... I think it was kind of smart to rule that way because it appeases the Atheists somewhat (as in it didn't offend them except for the fact of losing the case).

[shortie09]

I bet he did consider it extensively before bringing this to court. And I disagree with the article "proposal denied" just a bit. I didn't think it was a ruling for the wrong reason... I think it was kind of smart to rule that way because it appeases the Atheists somewhat (as in it didn't offend them except for the fact of losing the case).

probably. even though he hadn't won his case, other atheists are coming out about that, so...eh.

[ThunderEvermore]

Note: Im new to the convo so I'm just starting over.

IN 1982, ON THE CELEBRATION of his ninetieth birthday, Dumas Malone, noted historian and Thomas Jefferson biographer, was asked, "What is the most fortunate aspect of American history?" Malone replied,
The fact that we became a nation and immediately separated church and state—it has saved us from all the misery that has beset mankind with inquisitions, internecine and civil wars, and other assorted ills.

Considering that the phrase consists of only two words, it implies a lot:

That a deity exists: Traditionally, God is viewed as at least omniscient (all knowing) and omnipotent (with infinite powers). Many religions add other attributes, such as all-loving.
Maleness: "God" implies a male deity. There is no room in the Pledge for any female deity/deities who are normally called "Goddesses."
Uniqueness: The phrase implies monotheism: that there is only a single deity who one who rules over America.
Omnipresent: The phrase implies that God rules over all of America, and is present everywhere.
Control: Most Americans probably believe that the phrase indicates a God who interferes with events on earth, guiding the U.S. in the direction that he wishes.

Imagine, for a moment, that you are a Jewish student. You have the choice of
Reciting a pledge that an Atheist -- a person who has no belief in the existence of a God -- wrote: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, without God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Refusing to recite it, and leaving yourself open to being belittled, harassed, insulted, assaulted, etc.
As the Pledge of Allegiance Restoration Project writes: "Would you repeat all the words? Would you skip over the phrase "without God?" Would it make you feel comfortable about being an American?" Or, as one person posting to a forum said, would you recite "under all."

Imagine that you are a Christian, and you were forced to read a pledge written by an Muslim -- a person who believes in the existence of Allah: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under Allah, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Imagine that you are a Muslim, and you were forced to read a pledge written by an Wiccan -- a person who follows an earth-centered religion, and believes in the existence of a God and a Goddess: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under the God and Goddess, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Imagine that you are a Wiccan, and you were forced to read a pledge written by an Christian: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I guess I'll leave it at that right now..

Source

[dasturbd]

I think that there is way too much political correctness now and days. You can't say squat without someone taking it personally and getting on their soapbox of how they are being abused, discriminated...etc.

People always have the choice of not saying the pledge or at least not saying that part and if they want to be true to their religion they can always insert their God...Allah, whoever it may be. God is used as a general statement and back then they didn't have as many denominations as we do today.

They can change it if they want, I really don't care, but I'll be sticking with the old version because I choose to!

[ThunderEvermore]

but I'll be sticking with the old version because I choose to!

Technically the old version didnt have "under god" in it.

[F_L_I_P]

Iono its been there too long to take out. i mean im kinda used to it by now. and whenever i say the "pledge of allegiance" improbably gonna be blurting out "Under God"

[ur_my_sweety20]

im catholic..and proud of it...i think we should keep it how it is...its stood up for over 200 years so...keep it

[Spirited Away]

i think we should keep it how it is...its stood up for over 200 years so...keep it

I understand that you would want to keep it for religious sake, but to say "lets keep it" because it's been around for a long time is very problematic.

If tradition has it that a woman must eat dirt every time she leaves her home, and this tradition has been around for hundreds of years, would you really want to continue keeping it?

Or if slavery has been around since the dawn of man and it is a tradition, would you want to keep it?

But I do agree that there's really nothing wrong (unless one could convince me of otherwise) with keeping "under God" in the pledge.

[CrimsonArchangel]

im catholic..and proud of it...i think we should keep it how it is...its stood up for over 200 years so...keep it

The pledge of alliegance didn't always have " under God" in it. It was put like 20 or 30 years ago.

And I say keep it the way it is. People can choose to whether say the pledge or not. It's up to them. And this may sound wrong, and I'm sorry if it does, but the concerns of the few shouldn't affect the choices of others. Just because a couple of atheists don't like the phrase when most of the people are ok with it doesn't mean they have a right to try to change it.

[AZN_DRAGON]

it matters to ppl to take out under god bcuz theres ppl that dont worship him but it should jus stay...bcuz thats the original version they shuldnt take it out n give it credit to another person

[ThunderEvermore]

The bottom line is that everything the government does that involves religion must pass strict requirements. Quite franly I dont belive this does. It must be secular, and unless Im misinformed on the definition of secular I dont believe it is. Ask your Political Studies teachers.

[EmeraldKnight]

This is still around? wow..

The bottom line is that everything the government does that involves religion must pass strict requirements. Quite franly I dont belive this does. It must be secular, and unless Im misinformed on the definition of secular I dont believe it is. Ask your Political Studies teachers.

Strict requirements? And well, alright, by the separation of church and state, this does not belong.. but the thing is.. its been around for so long.. generation after generation.. I'm highly doubtful that parents.. citizens who've grown up with it.. would like to see it altered.. its fine the way it is.. because schools don't mandate that you recite it

[ThunderEvermore]

its been around for so long.. generation after generation.. I'm highly doubtful that parents.. citizens who've grown up with it.. would like to see it altered..

Generation after generation? Its been fifty years. Thats maybe two real generations if someone is born on that day.

Sure, people have grown up with it, but what about those who are inconvenienced by this? What of the people who dont say "Under God" and has it pointed out by their classmates, Christians and the like, and are made fun of, preached to, having their lives changed due to the simple fact that they dont believe in God, or believe in Allah, or follow Buddha, etc etc.

[ThunderEvermore]

Basically, its been changed once. And that time it was instilled for EVEN LONGER.

[ThunderEvermore]

I'm sorry, I do this way too fast.

Now, what of the writer of the pledge?

Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

The whole point of the pledge is to form a unity of those in this country. From different races, background, RELIGIONS, etc, they all fall under the term "American". The addition of "under God" just splits this unity in two. Whats the point of patriotism if it isnt going to apply to all?

HAHA. FOUND IT. Ahem...sorry. The Lemon Test. Those strict requirements I was talking about.

1) It must have a secular purpose.
2) Its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion.
3) It must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."

You have to ask yourself if this passes the test.

[EmeraldKnight]

I'm sorry, I do this way too fast.

If you do it too fast, just go back and edit it.. please dont triple post..

1) It must have a secular purpose.
2) Its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion.
3) It must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."

Hm.. could you tell me where you found this?

And the flag does pass the so-called lemon test..

[muahmuah5]

hAvEnT pEoPlE fOrGoTtEn ThAt GoD cReAtEd ThE wOrLd?

they should stay with it

[Spirited Away]

hAvEnT pEoPlE fOrGoTtEn ThAt GoD cReAtEd ThE wOrLd?

they should stay with it

Um.. mAyBe ThErE ArE PeEpz WhO DoN't BeLiEvE iN GoD?

Let me share with you a little something: You're not the only person in existence in the good ole US of A.

There are different religions and beliefs OTHER THAN your own. It's not that people "forgot" that God created the world, but there are people DO NOT BELIEVE in God.

[ThunderEvermore]

If you do it too fast, just go back and edit it.. please dont triple post..

Sorry, Im not used to posting in forums where you can edit posts.

And I was speaking of "Under God" in the pledge, not the flag itself...

The Lemon Test

[xHalf nHalf]

it pisses me off because its not even the students that have a problem with it. this whole thing started because of atheist parents not wanting their children saying "under God". i mean, hello youre not in school anymore. their children have the right to believe and say whatever they want the majority of all students dont mind saying it or it being in the pledge. and most of the ones that dont want to say it dont even care cause theyre not forced to

[ThunderEvermore]

it pisses me off because its not even the students that have a problem with it. this whole thing started because of atheist parents not wanting their children saying "under God".

Uh...no.

Youre speaking of one case, IE the latest and most talked about case with Mike Newdow or whatever his name was.

There are more cases, Im sure, where its just as much the kids as it is the parents.

[xHalf nHalf]

There are more cases, Im sure, where its just as much the kids as it is the parents.

id sure like to learn more about a case where a student was bothered by it. and if it wasnt started from someone complaining, where did this whole thing come from?

[ThunderEvermore]

id sure like to learn more about a case where a student was bothered by it. and if it wasnt started from someone complaining, where did this whole thing come from?

1) When I said case I wasnt referring to legal cases.

2) I never said it wasnt from someone complaining. But change requires complaining.

[kyuubi319]

hell no.
1) why would it affect someone? wouldnt it affect the people who are christian, are comfortable saying God, and believe in it? are we gonna change it when we start getting madd too?
2) It's been there for years, just as something we practice, everytime we take away something from American History it's erased like it never existed. so piece by piece, like a little child with a jigsaw puzzle, the pieces are lost and never found.
3) remember a while ago when that guy complained that his daughter was uncomfortable saying the pledge of alliegance? well it just happened that he was athiest and didnt believe in God, so he decided to create a ruccus. his daughter even said she had no problems saying it.
4) a while ago a third grade girl was taken away from her lunch room for saying Grace before she ate. where is the justice in that. it made no one uncomfortabel, we're all just too damn uncomfortable to speak out. and it was unfair for that little girl just because she did somethings differently than others. not fair at all. why did they pander to everyone else in the lunchroom?
4) shut up, i dont know why i remember all this stuff

[rnrn897]

no they're not -- they're still negociating it
and since im a christian i obviously think it shouldnt be taken off..
and does it literally mean under GOD? or does it have symbolism?

[Spirited Away]

and does it literally mean under GOD? or does it have symbolism?

What kind of symbolism?