education crisis, saw it on oprah Options

[marzipan]

i saw this thing on oprah about how badly some schools in the US are doing. they say the US isn't even in the top 20 when it comes to education or something. for example: they asked a bunch of people what the first 5 presidents in the US were. a chinese girl got them all right. george washington, john adams, thomas jefferson, james madison, james monroe....and then they asked some americans. some guessed abraham lincoln and most of them had no clue. i couldn't believe it! they live in america and don't even know the 1st president. bill gates and his wife are working to fix this educational crisis. what are your opinions on it?

(i think this should be in debate)

[demolished]

No one cares about the previous presidents unless they're historians.

it's like ... " do you know who made chocolate? it's very popular and everyone is eating it".

no one cares about that too.
---

No one cares about U.S isn’t one of the top smart counties. Not every countries like each other. Therefore, we have our own society with our form of belief that we think its best.

You can say China is one of the top smart countries but you know what sucks? Their harsh privileges are a lot different than U.S. U.S is like... mainly paradise.

I personally think U.S has a balance of education and freedom unlike China.

[marzipan]

but shouldn't everyone know that?! it's history.

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

ha, and when I first migrated here, Americans called me stupid! But man, US does have one of the best schools and most public schools are taken care of... I guess it's the kids who don't care.

[*swtcherriipie*]

i saw this thing on oprah about how badly some schools in the US are doing. they say the US isn't even in the top 20 when it comes to education or something. this is what really surprised me: they asked a bunch of people what the first 5 presidents in the US were. a chinese girl got them all right. george washington, john adams, thomas jefferson, james madison, james monroe....and then they asked some americans. some guessed abraham lincoln and most of them had no clue. i couldn't believe it! they live in america and don't even know the 1st president. bill gates and his wife are working to fix this educational crisis. what are your opinions on it?

(i think this should be in debate)

How are bill gates and his wife going to help?

The whole america not being one of the smartest of w.e thats nothing new its also not one of the most advanced or anything good or important i ♥ america but we suck! LOL i wish america was like china with the exeption that we had the freedom we have here.. i wouldnt want to have to PAY if i had like more than 2 kids or something...

[Chii]

ha, and when I first migrated here, Americans called me stupid! But man, US does have one of the best schools and most public schools are taken care of... I guess it's the kids who don't care.

No, no, no. Most public schools are NOT taken care of. I have had many teachers who could have cared less if we learned anything. It's not always the kids. Many public schools are run down and uncared for. Some schools cannot even afford books.

Is there a reason as to why you labelled the girl who got them right?

It depends on who is being asked. If the person is still in school and taking government classes, I should hope that they know. If they ask someone who is 30 then I doubt they'll know, they don't really keep that kind of stuff in their brain anymore because they don't need to use that information.

[*swtcherriipie*]

No one cares about the previous presidents unless they're historians.

it's like ... " do you know about who made chocolate?". no one cares about it too.

^^^ Hmm good point.. I guess thats true too.

[marzipan]

they're trying to spread the word and show kids at some of these schools.

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

Is there a reason as to why you labelled the girl who got them right?

I think that was just one of the many instances. But you know, education can be taken for granted by a lot of kids. the US is just slacking.

[marzipan]

Is there a reason as to why you labelled the girl who got them right?

no. i was just saying

[iDecay]

ha, and when I first migrated here, Americans called me stupid! But man, US does have one of the best schools and most public schools are taken care of... I guess it's the kids who don't care.

Heh, I don't really care about history much.. It um, bores me. I have noticed that I've gotten a little less smarter than I have before, though. It's probably all of the stress people have. *shrug* I can't concentrate or learn anything and comprehend it when I'm stressed out.

[marzipan]

yeah, they said some kids were failing and just gave up cause they thought they couldn't catch up.

[Smoogrish]

I think it's just a matter of what they're interested in. If they like American history, of course we should be ashamed of the fact that they don't know the first five presidents, but quite honestly, if you had asked me, I wouldn't know. I don't like history much, never have. Therefore, because I don't read up a lot about history on my own, I wouldn't want to remember it, if you get what I mean.

[demolished]

but shouldn't everyone know that?! it's history.

Are you talking about ... everyone in the whole world should know aboyt it?

Well, people who had took U.S history classes should know it. Not necessarily recalled it or to remember these facts forever.

[marzipan]

no, not everyone in the world! but sry, i just thought it was common knowledge in the US that george washington was the 1st president. and that was just an example. the president thing. i was posting this to ask what ppl's opinions were about education in the US

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

yeah, they said some kids were failing and just gave up cause they thought they couldn't catch up.

I think it really depends on the parents who raise the kids. With a lot of Americans getting divorced everyday and other crisis (not saying divorce is a crisis..things like child abuse or child neglect) going on, it does put a lot of pressure on kids. Eveyrone's parents signficantly affect their lifestyle depending on how they raised the kid.

Oh by the way...

Just yesterday I heard this kid say, "I wish I got shot 9 times so I can be as cool as 50 cent." that made me laugh and I had to add that.

[marzipan]

^ hahahaha.

[beambitious]

Oh yeah, I heard about this. It was also on an episode of 20/20. They gave this test to some American teens and some teens in a European country (I forgot which one), and the Americans did so bad the teens from Europe were mocking them. It's pretty pathetic. Some of them didn't even know what the Civil War was about. I pity them

[*Zatanna*]

Moved to Debate

[AngryBaby]

meh, jesus we're not that dumb.

we know more than our parents generation did when they grew up...

most of our work they have know clue how to do, so why do they make us feel so dumb?

[demolished]

no, not everyone in the world! but sry, i just thought it was common knowledge in the US that george washington was the 1st president. and that was just an example. the president thing. i was posting this to ask what ppl's opinions were about education in the US

Yes. it's a common knowledge but ... how does that apply to life? In what ways does it benefit us. No, i'm not yelling at you :]

i think that episode is making U.S look like a dumbass. :]

[julianaaa]

i think it's because since we're in America, they teach us the history of America differently than they do in China or any other country. maybe in other countries, they focus more on the names of the presidents&their order, and possibly their main accomplishments. in my school, they mainly focus on different historical events and the presidents that were in office at that time, and the actions of the president. personally, i dont think anyone cares about the order in which the presidents were in office.

[illumineering]

It's ironic that rote memorization is lauded as the benchmark of educational achievement. What happened to problem solving skills, communication and computation?

[*CrackedRearView*]

Leave it to Bill and Melinda Gates to politicize an already recognized topic. They recycle issues such as poverty in India, problems in Sudan, and issues with inner-city Chicago educational systems and all of a sudden they're Time Magazine's 'People of the Year'.

Don't get me wrong, I respect the fact that their charitable organization filters $29 billion directly into social problems, but why does it have to take Oprah and Bill Gates for anything to be done about it?

[jue]

does the order of president really matter?
but then again its kinda sad to see that a girl from another country can answer that question, but kids that are from america can't. I think i also heard somewhere that like people who take the US citizen test thing, they know more about america's history then people who originate from here.

Thinking about this, maybe education does need some changes. 'Cause im noticing me, myself slacking off in school. From the previous years to now, my grades have gone down like heck. =T

[*CrackedRearView*]

does the order of president really matter?
but then again its kinda sad to see that a girl from another country can answer that question, but kids that are from america can't. I think i also heard somewhere that like people who take the US citizen test thing, they know more about america's history then people who originate from here.

Thinking about this, maybe education does need some changes. 'Cause im noticing me, myself slacking off in school. From the previous years to now, my grades have gone down like heck. =T

The ability to rattle off the names of the first five presidents of the United States does not equate to intelligence, however, and it is certainly not indicative of any problem with American students. It's really all about the person you're quizzing. You have to realize that shows like Oprah display an immense amount of selection bias and that the experiments they conduct on that show are hardly viable indicators of anything.

1) Oprah is on TV because she gets enough ratings.

2) Oprah gets ratings because of edgy, grippy shows (much like the one aired about the state of the United States' education system).

3) Those specials are edgy and grippy because they display extreme amounts of inadequacy (often misleading amounts at that).

4) Without displaying the absolute extremes, Oprah doesn't get ratings and henceforth, doesn't have a show.

Again, I could name all 43 U.S. presidents and I'm not Asian, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm a political nut. Surveys like the one conducted on Oprah take ratings and money into account and not circumstance and truth.

[marzipan]

but then again its kinda sad to see that a girl from another country can answer that question, but kids that are from america can't. I think i also heard somewhere that like people who take the US citizen test thing, they know more about america's history then people who originate from here.

that's why i stated the president thing. guys, i wasn't saying it was a way to decide someone's intelligence. like i said, i just created this thread to discuss what your opinions are on education in the US, etc.

[*Indiscriminate Soul*]

Personal interests has a lot to do with knowing the first five presidents. I personally have no interest in U.S. history...so I don't know the first five presidents. Intelligence and the quality of education are hard to measure I think. Standardizing people is something I don't like.

[*mipadi*]

Having spent a couple years in college, I am inclined to agree that, for the most part, the public school system in the United States is not as good as it could be, for several reasons:

1. Standardized tests. Much of the educational resources go towards teaching students to do well on standardized tests. As a result, students' attentions are focused on rote memorization, not acquiring actual skills (e.g. problem-solving or truly understanding a concept). Standardized tests reward those who can spit back information in a standard way—not necessarily the same people who are "outside the box" thinkers, which is the type of thinking that thrives in the real world.
2. Exceptional students are not encouraged to learn. Emphasis is placed on catching failing students up to their peers, but in public high schools, exceptional students are not encouraged to be lifelong learners—once they get older, at least. For example, in my school, I was in the gifted program. From first to fifth grade, I had a special class every week for half a day. We learned lots of cool stuff I never learned in school: Fibonacci numbers, Pascal triangles, roots, Venn diagrams, the Dark Ages and the Renaissance, how to make movies, stuff about art and literature, and so forth. It was a lot of fun, and I was really encouraged to learn about things on my own. Every year each of us did a big research project that was actually fun because we got to do whatever we wanted. We also had an "Invention Convention" where we invented a new gadget, and a problem-solving night.
   
   Of course, that ended when I got to middle school. Suddenly, it seemed like no one cared if I learned. I wasn't really encouraged to excel. By high school, everything was so easy for me that I ended up never doing any work, which put me at a disadvantage in college. I blame a lot of it on the fact that the school didn't do a lot to encourage me to learn on my own, yet no one ever told me that I wasn't applying myself hard enough. I had a 4.0 GPA—how was I supposed to know I was being lazy? Plus I was a high school kid. I wanted to hang out with friends. And since I was doing well in school, how was I to know I was putting myself at a great disadvantage?
3. No Child Left Behind. This is sort of a combination of 1 and 2. No Child Left Behind focuses on poor students, while largely ignoring exceptional ones. It also places great stress on teachers to teach for tests, rather than to teach for life (and lifelong learning). It looks good in politics, but absolutely fails in the real world.

I went to a public high school, and graduated 7th in a class of 140. I go to a nice private school where a large percentage of students went to private schools or prep schools for high school. Honestly, I often feel like the "dumb kid" compared to them, and largely feel its because of the lackluster secondary education I received.

The US educational system is not terrible, not in the least, but there are a few key areas where it could stand to improve.

[x1049]

We watched that in my Sociology class. It thoroughly disturbs me that a girl from China can name off the first five American Presidents with minimal difficultly, and some students in the U.S. start off with Lincoln as their first guess.

>_<

[imnoxonesmemory]

i'm english. i've heard PUBLIC schools in the US are pretty bad. i saw someone said that "who cares they're history" or something, referring to the presidents. but some people would consider it very important to know the history of their country>!

[*disco infiltrator*]

I agree with Michael wholeheartedly. I had a gifted program for one year of elementary school, 5th grade, and we didn't really do anything and the only reason the program was in place was because my mom begged them. It was taken away after I went to middle school. I suffer now as a result of never having to try or do any work throughout all of elementary and middle school. I'm still not used to having to do homework. I used to be the "smart girl" in my grade - everyone would come to me for help, everyone would look up to me, all of my teachers loved me...now I'm ranked 34 out of my class of 135. I'm sure if I had been kept at MY pace of learning as a youngster, I would be much higher now.