God Options

[waccoon]

i really see no reason to believe in him. there are so many arguments to his non existence. come on, you religious fanatics. bring it on.

[InfamousOwen]

My own belief is more simple , and yet, more complicated by far. I believe that dragons appeared in the world immediately after theth first reasoning race. I do not credit any god of wizards with their creation, but rather, the basic imagination,wrought of unseen fears, of those first reasoning mortals.
~Drizzit Do'Urden

Ok it may sound like blah blah blah but I think its the same thing for God or Gods depending on your religion. Humans fear to be alone because being alone leaves everything up to chance and in sense that means we are just a lucky mistake. God is the ultimate mystery, next to life after death. So the less answers the better it is because without a god to believe in people have nowhere to put their faith in a lucky chance.

I guess you can say that is my viw on it.

[dukesoccer07]

I'm only going to say one thing on this topic because I have got in on heated discussions that got me kicked off forums...

There is no reason why christians should have blind faith... there have been roman historians who have written down the account of Jesus... They wrote everything that happen... There have been historians during that time that never met Jesus but felt the earth shake and saw the sky get dark the day of the crucifixion... There are so many things in the world that show there is a God... but its up to you to believe it...

[tkproduce]

i really see no reason to believe in him. there are so many arguments to his non existence. come on, you religious fanatics. bring it on.

Until one can discover and prove every mystery there is about this universe, one does not have the right to mock or deny the beliefs of others. No one can prove that God exists, but no one can prove that he doesn't exist either. Then comes the question "what does 'existence' actually mean?" Did a sound that was never heard ever "exist"? Would this Universe "exist" if nothing was intelligent enough to understand it's "existence"? Surely God does exist as long as people believe that he does.

[Winter]

I personally don't believe in God because there's no prove that he exists, to me that is. But for the people who choose to believe, then he does exist.

[triipinfserious]

i agree with Winter ... i don`t believe he exists `cause there`s been no proof ... sorry

[InfamousOwen]

Ok I always take a defensive position so here goes

Things that need to be proved
Love
Wind

Ok those are the two easiest ones to relate what I mean. Neither is tangible, yet you believe in them. Why? cause they are what you feel and that is the only proof that anyone has to either. For some people both of those things are just further proof of god....after all what makes the wind blow? What makes the heart beat faster when seeing someone you love? Probably through out the course of my CB lifetime you will see me quote books a lot. Here is another from Drizzit Do'Urden that I think is relavent to this topic :)

What is it within us, then, that so desperately wants to deny magic and to unravel mystery? Fear, I presume, based on the many uncertainties of life, and the greatest uncertainty of death. Put those fears aside, I say, and live free of them, for if we just step back and watch the truth of the world, we will find that there is indeed magic all about us, unexplainable by numbers and formulas. What is the passion evoked by the stirring speech of the commander before the desperate battle, if not magic? What is the peace that an infant might know in its mother's arms, if not magic? what is love, if not magic?

What we take for granted as everyday happenings can be looked at through another light as magic and yet another as science and yet another as the hand of god/s. Isn't science just another religion anyway with a different type of god?

ok enough of my ramblings

[tkproduce]

I really don't think "Because there is no proof" is a valid reason for not believing in God. Most of science doesn't have a "proof". I'm not saying it's right or wrong to not believe in God, I'm just saying that I want a more convincing reason from the people don't believe in God or some other greater being.

[*Kathleen*]

But tk, there is obvious proof found by scientists of today that evolution is not that far from the truth. Also, how can you credit the intelligence of Romans back then? THEY BURNED DOWN THE GREEK LIBRARY! Heh. Kidding...except...they reall did. Onto my point - they're not as smart as we were today. Those accounts could've been simply minor things...it could've been coincidence that the sky got dark after the crucifixion (this is directed towards duke). Furthermore, scientists have used isotopes to calculate how old the earth truly is - they're saying it's about four and a half billion years old opposed to the Bible's ten thousand years or whatever it was.

[InfamousOwen]

Oh good point Kathleen. Me and my friend from BACK in the day had to argue why Science can not get rid of God for our sunday school teacher cause we both said something dumb to her lol but yea in the end the scripture is vague about the creation of the world. The bible says God created the Earth in seven days..........ok granted this is a bit of a stretch but who is to say what 1 day is to god? I mean our lifetimes could pass in the blink of an eye for someone who can create universes. And as my teahcer said....God works in mysterious ways....so who is to say that science isnt a way for god to console those who don't believe in him but need to believe in something else?


These are just theories of course. There is in the end only one way we will ever know for sure and I am FAR from ready to find out the answer that way.

[*Kathleen*]

Hmm, that's quite true - my biology teacher pointed that out. I don't think anyone said anything about that. Good job. BUT, why didn't they just say four billion years, huh?

[InfamousOwen]

Back in the day a million dollars was a huge sum of money because people just didnt think a billion was a realistic number and that was what a hundred years ago or something little like that.....now imagine over 2000 years ago where the range of living was like 50 years or something like that. Besides they needed a way to make it so people would worship god and if they had to say "And on the 4 billionth year he rested and it was his day" I doubt many people would be anywhere near as religious.


of course it could all be a merchants trick to get people to offer up money and buy things like "Holy" objects. Thats just another theory

[tkproduce]

Scientific proofs are assumptions based on experimental evidence. Further experiments are conducted either to reinforce the evidence for the initial assumption or to find a contradiction to it. Newton's Laws of motion was all there was to physics until Albert Einstein came up with relativity. Newton's Laws are all we need for everyday life, but Einstein's new ideas have given us a new way of understanding phenomena in the universe that Newton's Laws could not explain. The composition of neucleons being quarks, the nuclear strong force, black holes - they're all assumptions based on experimental evidence. There is no concrete "proof" in science. Mathematics is different - mathematical proof is absolute. Once something is proven in math, it never changes.

About evolution, though it is not far from the truth as you say, there are some evidences against it. Humans seem to evolve from certain regions in Africa and at the same time in regions of China. The chances of the same type of species evolving in completely different parts of the world are very slim.

Anyway, "proving" that evolution is true doesn't make a difference to whether God exists or not. Whatever that is written on the Bible is by humans and much of it is just human imagination. The facts are not important - the important thing is the belief that there's something "above" us that is so beautiful that words cannot explain and that someday we can see it.

[InfamousOwen]

Wow that was seriously touching. it all comes down to one word.....Faith....and no matter wether you call your religion christianity,buddism, or science in the end it al revolves around how much faith you put into them

[Spirited Away]

There is no concrete "proof" in science. Mathematics is different - mathematical proof is absolute. Once something is proven in math, it never changes.

I was never good in science, please clear this up for me just a bit: physics use math? If math is absolute, then shouldn't physics be the same?

Or, is it how math is applied that matters?

Um, okay back to topic.

THEY BURNED DOWN THE GREEK LIBRARY! Heh. Kidding...except...they reall did.

*Nods*. Human way of thought was different back then because they did not have the knowledge of science that we have today. If a phenomenon happened thousands of years ago and people thought it was an act of God, who's to say that it wasn't science that caused such phenomenon?

If I go back in time with a flashlight in hand, could I be a messager of God because I can create light with a simple switch? I think people will assume so.

What I mean is: could God be confused with science back then?

[InfamousOwen]

And in a thousand years will the science of today be looked at in the reverse sense. WHo is to say that discoveries today arent the hand of god working in some fashion?

[Spirited Away]

And in a thousand years will the science of today be looked at in the reverse sense. WHo is to say that discoveries today arent the hand of god working in some fashion?

And who's to say that these things called science, are actually science, and God had nothing to do with it?

I'm confused.

[LQ_Darksoul]

I'm going off a little on this subject...So bare with me.

Most people believe the universe is endless. An infinite amount of space and time. Now, if there is infinity, there will be an infinite amount of possiblities. (This isn't necessarily an alternate universe, but an infinite number of worlds with tiny changes in the(our) universe.) I can only imagine with such an amount of space, that there be a being behind it all. Maybe not a creator, but a being of more power than man could ever posses. Why? Because its in the math. There has to be one of everything, because there is an infinite number of possiblities. Now, it seems strange to say that there is one of everything, but for every thought a person has, I could only imagine somewhere, in the vastness of the infinite universe, there has to be something that is the essence of the formentioned thought. And in theory, if the universe is infinite, and every thought has substance(essence) then there would not be one God, but multiple Gods. In short, I have to believe that there is something/someone else out there, becuase of the infinite possiblities. But then again, you have to believe in infinity before you can believe in anything I just said

[Spirited Away]

Me ME! I believe in infinity. The earth's circular rotation and the circular rotation of other planets around the Sun are examples of infinity, too, I think. What's up with that?

Anyway, as there could be possibility of God's existence because of infinity, there could be a possibility that God does not exist either.

[InfamousOwen]

Thats a really good point also...kind of brings up the books of Myst to mind. If you ever read them that is. But yea math is the only undeniable prove fact........but it was made up by people so even though it is undeniabley 100% proven in the end it is just another theory. But I do agree with you. I just try my best to look at every point of view from all 360%.

[tkproduce]

I was never good in science, please clear this up for me just a bit: physics use math? If math is absolute, then shouldn't physics be the same?

Or, is it how math is applied that matters?

All sciences use mathematics, but they are not the same. Mathematics in physics is used to model the "real" world as best fit as possible so we can have a better understanding of the universe and what goes on around us. However, this model is never perfect and it is the physicists' job to improve on this. Stephen Hawking claims that someone in the near future will be able to find and prove this "perfect model" of the universe. Once that is done, then we might be able to scientifically prove the existence or non-existence of God.

There was a topic about ghosts - do they exist or not? There's experimental evidence that parallel universes may be interacting with each other (electron diffraction expoeriment), but that is just an intelligent assumption made so that the observed phenomena can be explained (i.e. it is a mathematical model trying to "match" the real world). Whether this has anything to do with ghosts, no one knows yet.

What I mean is: could God be confused with science back then?

There's enough things we don't know about this universe today to still believe that God may be responsible for things that happen around us. Not just complicated things such as quantum physics, but we don't understand seemingly simple things like emotions - such as love or hatred. How would science as we know it today explain love? Somethings might be better off not explained at all. It is up to each individual person to believe what he/she wants, but I don't think people that don't believe in God have any grounds to criticise people that do.

[xquizit]

Religion is about having faith, regardless of whether or not there is proof.

[Spirited Away]

Religion is about having faith, regardless of whether or not there is proof.

Right, but not only religion, concepts are about faith as well.

[waccoon]

okay, im gonna start something new. if i go murder some child, why should i have to go to hell for it? after all, god is perfect. god knew that i was going to kill that little kid. if he knew it was going to do it, then i couldn't have possibly changed my mind. if i changed my mind and let the child live, god would have been wrong. and god is perfect. so why should i go to hell for my 'mistakes'? i shouldn't. whoever thought up god should have thought a little harder.

[lilb]

hey nick, this is britt, do you really wanna get me started?

[cleec]

i don't know if i believe in god because the idea of him is so fake..i mean one person who created every single person on the planet and created the entire universe, i know i should believe it but i don't..maybe i do i dunno anymore.

also what i don't get is if god is supposed to forgive everyone of their sins then why is there even a hell?

[lilb]

I can explain it all...but you have to honestly wanna know. If you ask questions like that and really sincerely wanna kno the answers, read the bible, then it will all make sense.

[Fireshrieker]

If there were a solid middle ground, then I would be standing right on it.

Why, you ask? Because since I have been raised in a christian background, I have the entire god thing engrained in my mind, but I was never SERIOUSLY religious, so its not that overwhelming.

I mean, i believe the bible and everything, I just really don't like the entire book of Genesis. I'm strongly one way for evolutionism, but my idea is that if God didn't create it, then it at least HELPED us to become who we are now, as the human race. I mean, think about it- how could humans suddenly evolve from neanderthals to the extreme dominant race in such a short time? (this is looking at a universal standpoint, where a few thousand years is nothing compared to the billions of years the universe has been in existence). And so on. I really don't think I need to talk more about this.

On another note, evolution and phylogeny. Seeing as that 97% of our DNA is the same as chimpanzees and they even have a small degree of intelligence as us, how exactly did we evolve from the chimps and how did they stay as they are? Whatever happened to homo erectus, neanderthals? Shouldn't they still be alive too if chimps are? What allowed the chimps to survive with their current form? Why is there an unbridged gap (as of modern day) between us and chimpanzees? I believe this is where God comes in.


whoo. I love a good debate.

[tkproduce]

disproving what is written on the Bible does not disprove God. Like I've said, the Bible was written by HUMANS, not God. If the people who wrote the Bible believed in hell, then let it be so. God is whatever the human mind wants it to be - God could be male, female, genderless. As long as the human imagination has no limits, than there will be no limits on what God can be or do. Can you picture 4 dimensions in your head? How about 10? or 23? Whatever God is, it's beyond whatever you can picture in your mind, but isn't it assuring to feel that there is something that is just beyond our level of intelligence?

[tofumonzter]

We are all created by God, and there's God. Why?

Well, a lot of you might have think that we are form from monkeys. Yes a lot of people believe in me, but have you(people who believe in we are from monkeys) found any half monkey, half human creature? Well, if you can find me one tell me.

^ This statement can easily prove that there's a God, because we are not form from monkeys.

[waccoon]

We are all created by God, and there's God. Why?

Well, a lot of you might have think that we are form from monkeys. Yes a lot of people believe in me, but have you(people who believe in we are from monkeys) found any half monkey, half human creature? Well, if you can find me one tell me.

^ This statement can easily prove that there's a God, because we are not form from monkeys.

we were genetically mutated from monkeys over many years, so the process was gradual. it didnt go BAM theres your human, no more monkey.

[Fireshrieker]

we were genetically mutated from monkeys over many years, so the process was gradual. it didnt go BAM theres your human, no more monkey.

yes, but check my post, the second large part of it. That's my argument against evolution being the only factor in the creation of humans.


EDIT: fine, here it is.

On another note, evolution and phylogeny. Seeing as that 97% of our DNA is the same as chimpanzees and they even have a small degree of intelligence as us, how exactly did we evolve from the chimps and how did they stay as they are? Whatever happened to homo erectus, neanderthals? Shouldn't they still be alive too if chimps are? What allowed the chimps to survive with their current form? Why is there an unbridged gap (as of modern day) between us and chimpanzees? I believe this is where God comes in.

think about that.

[tofumonzter]

we were genetically mutated from monkeys over many years, so the process was gradual. it didnt go BAM theres your human, no more monkey.

Can you find me a half monkey, half human creature?

[waccoon]

i told you long, read my post. there isnt any because we slowly mutated from them. and they we are much superior in intelligence because our brain is similar, but not the same to them. we developed language and a culture, and went on from there. do me a favor, and read darwin.

[Fireshrieker]

i told you long, read my post. there isnt any because we slowly mutated from them. and they we are much superior in intelligence because our brain is similar, but not the same to them. we developed language and a culture, and went on from there. do me a favor, and read darwin.

WHY don't you people read what i said? grarrrrrr

[tofumonzter]

How did the evolution stop?
In the Bible it's written clearly that God created human on the 6th day.

[tofumonzter]

and how did it start?




sorry for the double posting.

[onenonly101]

I believe in God. He has always been there. He gives me the choice to make the decisions i make wether good ones or bad ones. He is a loving God for the fact that he shows us mercy and grace. Mercy is Him not giving us what we do deserve for our actions and grace is Giving us things we do not deserve. He is real. I have proof, you not might believe my proof but it is true. God has brought me through alot of things, without him I would be another one of these pregnant girls running around my school. He has given me so many miracles I cannot even reacconut them for you. God is like the wind, there but you can't see Him even though some poeple might believe he isn't there he still is. No matter what. I can't even explain everything I feel about God because it is unexplainanle. He is the reason that I am who I am today. He is the reason I am alive. He is the reason for everything there is.

okay, im gonna start something new. if i go murder some child, why should i have to go to hell for it? after all, god is perfect. god knew that i was going to kill that little kid. if he knew it was going to do it, then i couldn't have possibly changed my mind. if i changed my mind and let the child live, god would have been wrong. and god is perfect. so why should i go to hell for my 'mistakes'? i shouldn't. whoever thought up god should have thought a little harder.

What you have wrong is that we go to hell for our mistakes. You don't go to hell for your mistakes. When you become a Christian(accepting Christ into your heart because you believe he dided on the cross for all of our sins and you want the holy spirit to live in you and direct your paths) your name is written in the Book of Life. When God writes your name in it it is like inl you can't erase it. No matter what you do you will not go to hell. That is why God is a merciful God. Jesus died on the cross for all our sins because he loved us so much and in that he will never forget us. God even loves those who hate him and it is never to early to accept Him in your life. All I can say is God has always been there and will always be there.

[waccoon]

and how did it start?




sorry for the double posting.

asexual cellular reproduction? about four billion years ago. molecules could reproduce and replicate themselves, eventually creating the first cell, which in turn creates the first animal.

[onenonly101]

^^Or God made them

[Fireshrieker]

asexual cellular reproduction? about four billion years ago. molecules could reproduce and replicate themselves, eventually creating the first cell, which in turn creates the first animal.

that's true. Ever hear of Stanley Miller? He made an experiment where he emulated early earth's chemical atmospheric conditions, with no organic compounds. After he performed the experiment, he discovered something strange: amino acids were being created. As this builds, some sort of mutation would have created one-celled creatures (____ --EDIT- sorry.)and the stone rolls on.

[waccoon]

that's true. Ever hear of Stanley Miller? He made an experiment where he emulated early earth's chemical atmospheric conditions, with no organic compounds. After he performed the experiment, he discovered something strange: amino acids were being created. As this builds, some sort of mutation would have created one-celled creatures (not animals, nick.) and the stone rolls on.

i believe i said in turn. eventually.

[onenonly101]

What confuses me is how people can believe science and one cell forms in to an animal then into a human and gases composing and making the earth and what not, but people find it hard to believe in God

[Spirited Away]

What confuses me is how people can believe science and one cell forms in to an animal then into a human and gases composing and making the earth and what not, but people find it hard to believe in God

I believe it because I can see it. I can look into a microscope and see it happening, while God is no where to be seen...

Then again, I'm not saying that God doesn't exists because he cannot be seen, but usually I believe things that have been experimented many times and I can trust that if I perform the same experiement it will yield the same result.

[AmesBond]

Ok, I'm not a religious person, but I suppose there is a "God." Who am I to say that he doesn't exist. I don't know for sure. And besides, if he gives hope to billions of people, then why not let there be a "God"?

[katers]

I believe in God/Jesus. Know why, because He came into my life. Something that doesnt exist doesnt just come into your life. What Roxanne said, I totally agree with. Faith is about believing when you can't see. It's not a coincidence that so many people feel a change in their life, and feel that it's Jesus coming to them. A sad thing though is that the main cause of atheism in the world is Christians. So many Christians that give a false message of having to be good to have God in your life. Or having to be a perfect person to be a Christian. None of that is true. I pray for you guys.

[waccoon]

why do you find it hard to believe? we have proof.
there isnt a god, he gives hope to billions of people, and they're wrong, they're sheep.

[onenonly101]

I believe it because I can see it. I can look into a microscope and see it happening, while God is no where to be seen...

Then again, I'm not saying that God doesn't exists because he cannot be seen, but usually I believe things that have been experimented many times and I can trust that if I perform the same experiement it will yield the same result.

you can't look into a microscope and see evolution, or even see all cells and molecules. It is like geometry in a sense, it is all made up

why do you find it hard to believe? we have proof.
there isnt a god, he gives hope to billions of people, and they're wrong, they're sheep.

proof? you base your decisions on what others have said before you so how do you know that is true? I am a sheep it says it in the bible, The followers of Christ are sheep, and he is our shepard. He doesn't just give me hope he gives me truth, and comfort and so many other things

[katers]

and if evolution was real and there was a "big bang" things wouldnt be in order. planets would be tilted. an example is if you threw pieces of a pusszle with letters on them on the ground. they wouldnt automatically fit together. most of them wouldnt make words. some would be upside down. thats why there is a hand that puts the peices of the puzzle together, just as the world was made.

[Spirited Away]

you can't look into a microscope and see evolution, or even see all cells and molecules. It is like geometry in a sense, it is all made up

I'm not saying that I see evolution, but what do you mean I can't see cells... what were those things then in biology class I wonder?

Evolution can be seen through archeological findings.

Geometry is made up?

[AmesBond]

^^ Hey, people up there. Evolution exists. In mere couple of sentences, you try to dispel all of Charles Darwin's findings? I suggest you guys study up on the Galapagos Islands before you say anything more of evolution.

[waccoon]

and if evolution was real and there was a "big bang" things wouldnt be in order. planets would be tilted. an example is if you threw pieces of a pusszle with letters on them on the ground. they wouldnt automatically fit together. most of them wouldnt make words. some would be upside down. thats why there is a hand that puts the peices of the puzzle together, just as the world was made.

space has no direction, i hope you know that. it can be viewed from any angle, as it's space, theres no one base direction.

[onenonly101]

I believe Geometry was made up. All the theorems and postulutes and degrees measure. Someone who was bored with the way things were and how they were being taught made it up

[onenonly101]

^^ Hey, people up there. Evolution exists. In mere couple of sentences, you try to dispel all of Charles Darwin's findings? I suggest you guys study up on the Galapagos Islands before you say anything more of evolution.

That doesn't prove evolution. You believe evolution because of what someone else believed someone who came to believe in God and not even belive in what he "found"

[AmesBond]

I believe Geometry was made up. All the theorems and postulutes and degrees measure. Someone who was bored with the way things were and how they were being taught made it up

Wow. You must not be liking Geometry in school for someone who would take such a logical thing as math and say that it's "made up." Pure mockery...

[waccoon]

I believe Geometry was made up. All the theorems and postulutes and degrees measure. Someone who was bored with the way things were and how they were being taught made it up

they didnt make it up, they gave names for it. if there werent any angles, degrees or measures, there wouldn't be a world, everything has an angle.

[waccoon]

That doesn't prove evolution. You believe evolution because of what someone else believed someone who came to believe in God and not even belive in what he "found"

then why do you believe god because of what's in a book, and what someone else said, and was never proves? charles darwin is the most respectable figure ever, and he never recanted his views on evolution.

[Spirited Away]

I believe Geometry was made up. All the theorems and postulutes and degrees measure. Someone who was bored with the way things were and how they were being taught made it up

WOW. You're saying something like the Pythagorean Theorem was made up? It's a proof, a fact.

Well then according to you, shapes and sizes that we see in everyday life is made up? Geometry has to do with these things... I don't see how it can be.

I could conclude then, that all math was made up, too, since 'someone had to be bored with the ways things were' or someone was just curious on how to things work and made it up.

[AmesBond]

That doesn't prove evolution. You believe evolution because of what someone else believed someone who came to believe in God and not even belive in what he "found"

I never said "God" didn't exist. I just think that evolution is more logical than a gigantic hand coming from the sky and placing everything in order. I believe in evolution and I'm not just going to pretend it doesn't exist when there is evidence out there supporting this. The "God" you believe in is so abstract, but do I tell you he doesn't exist? You need to accept other people's point of views and opinions and stop being so close-minded and one-sided.

[*AngelicEyz00*]

Ever since i took biology in 9th grade, I've believed in evolution. I still believe that there's a god, because that's how I was brought up you know? But I don't believe in all the catholic stories and stuff, because some of these seem really, um rediculous?

Ok, back with Galileo, everyone thought earth was the center of the universe, and all the planets and the sun revolved around it... why? Because that's what the church wanted them believe. But then Galileo discovered that the sun was the center of the earth... The church freaked out, and held on tight to their own little story or whatever... They were naiive, they didn't know any better, how could they? Science wasn't really out there like it is today ya know?

So, now that we have all this scientific knowledge, or theories about things, I believe that evolution is just how we kinda got here as humans. However, I do believe that everything had to have started with something. If we all came here from one little gas, or one little cell or whatever, then how did the cell get there?? That is where I say that I believe that there is something that must have created that one thing that we all evolved from, and that's were my belief in some sort of god comes in....

[waccoon]

I never said "God" didn't exist. I just think that evolution is more logical than a gigantic hand coming from the sky and placing everything in order. I believe in evolution and I'm not just going to pretend it doesn't exist when there is evidence out there supporting this. The "God" you believe in is so abstract, but do I tell you he doesn't exist? You need to accept other people's point of views and opinions and stop being so close-minded and one-sided.

please ames, watch the member bashing

[*AngelicEyz00*]

That doesn't prove evolution. You believe evolution because of what someone else believed someone who came to believe in God and not even belive in what he "found"

but you believe in god because someone told you to, so what's the difference??

[tkproduce]

This topic is going way off track. We are not meant to believe everything that is in the Bible - we are meant to read and understand parts of it. Different people will be affected by different parts of the Bible. A lot of the old testamnet is fantasy. God made the world in 6 days? Every religion has some sort of myth behind the creation of Earth. Now that science has developed, we know more things, many of which contradicts the bible in many ways. But like I've said before, HUMANS WROTE THE BIBLE! GOD DIDN'T!!!!! There are bound to be mistakes.

But just because science has developed, that doesn't mean we can explain everything - and I believe that somethings will never be explained. That's God. Evolution? Maybe that was God's way of "creating" us humans. I mean, compared to the life of the Universe, or even Earth, humans existence is insignificant.

[AmesBond]

please ames, watch the member bashing

Was I bashing? Sorry, got a little heated there...

[*AngelicEyz00*]

This topic is going way off track. We are not meant to believe everything that is in the Bible - we are meant to read and understand parts of it. Different people will be affected by different parts of the Bible. A lot of the old testamnet is fantasy. God made the world in 6 days? Every religion has some sort of myth behind the creation of Earth. Now that science has developed, we know more things, many of which contradicts the bible in many ways. But like I've said before, HUMANS WROTE THE BIBLE! GOD DIDN'T!!!!! There are bound to be mistakes.

But just because science has developed, that doesn't mean we can explain everything - and I believe that somethings will never be explained. That's God. Evolution? Maybe that was God's way of "creating" us humans. I mean, compared to the life of the Universe, or even Earth, humans existence is insignificant.

I find your argument to be very reasonable

[tkproduce]

I find your argument to be very reasonable

Thank you.

Why do I thank you? To show my appreciation. Why do I feel appreciated? Because I felt good about your comment. Why did I feel "good"? Can you scientifically and rationally explain my feelings? Probably not. That's where God comes in

[Spirited Away]

Why do I thank you? To show my appreciation. Why do I feel appreciated? Because I felt good about your comment. Why did I feel "good"? Can you scientifically and rationally explain my feelings? Probably not. That's where God comes in

No, you are definately harder to crack then she is.. Ignorance (her) I can deal with, but logic is logic.

I question that, too. How do we explain feelings.

[waccoon]

a chemical is released in the brain, and a chemical reaction occurs.

[tkproduce]

a chemical is released in the brain, and a chemical reaction occurs.

why is this "chemical" released? Surely if the main aim for living things on Earth is to reproduce and pass on their genes for the survival of their own species, then there is no point in this "chemical" being released? Surely it is energetically unfavorable and it is just wasting time which could be spent reproducing for the survival of human species?

[dukesoccer07]

If evolution is true then things would not rot, they would evolve....

[waccoon]

why is this "chemical" released? Surely if the main aim for living things on Earth is to reproduce and pass on their genes for the survival of their own species, then there is no point in this "chemical" being released? Surely it is energetically unfavorable and it is just wasting time which could be spent reproducing for the survival of human species?

is sending a signal to let you know that you're hungry, or you have the sensation to go to the bathroom - is that an unfavorable ability?

[AmesBond]

why is this "chemical" released?  Surely if the main aim for living things on Earth is to reproduce and pass on their genes for the survival of their own species, then there is no point in this "chemical" being released?  Surely it is energetically unfavorable and it is just wasting time which could be spent reproducing for the survival of human species?

Sympathetic nervous system releases the stress hormones epinephrine and norepinephrine from the nerve endings in the inner part of the adrenal glands...these stress hormones enter the bloodstream...increases heart rate and respiration, diverts blood from digestion to the skeletal muscles, dulls pains, and releases sugar and fat from the body's stores--all to prepare the body for...stress response.

-- Psychology, 7th ed., David G. Myers

There's the chemical you're looking for.

[*CrackedRearView*]

You want a good reason to believe in the being God?

Take a look at Jesus.

How do we know Jesus existed?

Read the Bible.

Why's that important?

Because the New Testament consists of hundreds of different testimonies from hundreds of different, credible sources who lived hundreds of miles from each other.

It's not like they all sat down at a table and started making up a story. It was an individual thing.

You think it's just some weird coincidence that hundreds of people decided on the same idea?

Also,

we were genetically mutated from monkeys over many years, so the process was gradual. it didnt go BAM theres your human, no more monkey.

Maybe you should read up on Charles Darwin a bit.

First, that moron claimed that humans were descendants of the Neanderthals, even though new scientific skull findings show that neanderthals and modern day homo sapien sapiens could not even possibly be genetically related. Furthermore, DNA samples of the skulls showed Neanderthal/Homo Sapien interbreeding. So, if two mass, I repeat, mass species (because this was a study of thousands of skulls) lived at the same time, how can you claim such a gradual change?

Second, didn't you know that the founder of these preposterous ideas began to doubt them on the eve of his death? Darwin knew he was an idiot.

[Spirited Away]

How do we know Jesus existed?

Read the Bible.

The Bible was written by man in the age where science wasn't very acceptable.

Because the New Testament consists of hundreds of different testimonies from hundreds of different, credible sources who lived hundreds of miles from each other.

And these hundreds of people ALREADY believed in the same thing, so ofcourse, they'll testify to things that's in accord with their beliefs.

You think it's just some weird coincidence that hundreds of people decided on the same idea?

It wasn't a coincidence. But how did these people know about God? They heard it from someone, who heard it from someone else. How reliable is that?

Maybe you should read up on Charles Darwin a bit.

Maybe you should, too. Why don't you try to discredit Darwin about the Gagalapagos islands.

I don't see how he's a moron if he's able to write up something that would cause this much of a controversy. We wouldn't be learning from him in classrooms if he was an idiot.

[likeachild]

okay, im gonna start something new. if i go murder some child, why should i have to go to hell for it? after all, god is perfect. god knew that i was going to kill that little kid. if he knew it was going to do it, then i couldn't have possibly changed my mind. if i changed my mind and let the child live, god would have been wrong. and god is perfect. so why should i go to hell for my 'mistakes'? i shouldn't. whoever thought up god should have thought a little harder.

He gives you free will
so you can do whatever you please

but whatever you do
is part of a way bigger plan that no human can comprehend

perhaps the death of that little child would cause something else...

How do we know Jesus existed?

Read the Bible.

The Bible was written by man in the age where science wasn't very acceptable.

the Bible was written by hundreds of men over thousands of years...and yet it still proves itself true it ... fits together perfectly

explain that.

[tofumonzter]

He gives you free will
so you can do whatever you please

Except sins.

[likeachild]

Except sins.

no. including sins
if you want to sin
He wont stop you
He wont make you do anything

is a forced obedience really obedience?

God is like a gentleman, He stands at the door and knocks
it's your choice to answer Him
if you slam the door in his face and flip Him off
He will still love you
He will always be there, waiting for you


The gift has already been given, it is up to YOU to accept it

[*islandgirl4eva*]

I do believe there is SOMETHING to worship, but I don't necessarily believe God is the only one. Wher I come from there is a history of ancestral worship. However, I am Catholic, so I better watch what I say...

[tofumonzter]

no. including sins
if you want to sin
He wont stop you
He wont make you do anything

is a forced obedience really obedience?

God is like a gentleman, He stands at the door and knocks
it's your choice to answer Him
if you slam the door in his face and flip Him off
He will still love you
He will always be there, waiting for you


The gift has already been given, it is up to YOU to accept it

^ That was what i meant.

But one thing,
when you accept Him,
you will not want to sins anymore,
and God or Jesus did not say you can sins more or less.
Jesus forgive your sins, save you.
Why do you still want to sins before God?

[likeachild]

Proving the Existence of God

When asked how he could be so certain that God exists, one great theologian responded with a 2 word answer, "The Jew." The continued survival of the Jewish people in spite of numerous and concerted efforts to exterminate them unequivocally demonstrates God's existence, His presence in the world and His involvement in the affairs of man.

First let's understand that the Jewish people were chosen by God to accomplish four things:

To be a witness for Him (Isaiah 43:10)
To show forth His blessings (Isaiah 49:3)
To be a repository for His Word (Isaiah 42:9), and

Because He instilled in them a desire to be so meticulous in preserving His word, we have in the Old Testament a document that when compared to secular accounts of world history provides irrefutable evidence of God's existence.


Is That You, God?

Let me put it this way. If someone came to you and claimed to be God, what would be the most convincing proof he could offer to convince you that he really was? Many people I've asked have responded that if he could tell them things no one could know they would be impressed enough to at least give him the benefit of the doubt. When I say "What if he told you things that haven't happened yet? And then when the events he predicted came to pass just as he described them with 100% accuracy, would that persuade you?" Invariably the answer I get is "Yes."

Well that's exactly what God has done. Listen to His claim from Isaiah 42:8-9. "I am the Lord, that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. See, the former things have taken place (what I told you would happen has happened) and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you.

Of all the so-called Holy Writings, only the Bible authenticates itself like this. In fact God challenges anyone else claiming to be like Him to prove himself this way. "This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty. I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people and what is yet to come – yes. Let him foretell what will come" (Isaiah 44:6-7). If you want to be God, there's a two-question qualification exam. First recount in detail everything that has happened in the past, and then predict everything that will happen in the future. By the way, the only acceptable score is 100%. (Deut 18:21-22)


Knowing The End From The Beginning

We call this means by which God authenticates Himself predictive prophecy. By most accounts the Bible is 30-40% predictive prophecy by volume. A lot of it has been fulfilled and is there waiting to be compared to history as evidence of God's existence. Much more is being fulfilled right before our eyes through the Nation of Israel as irrefutable proof. But just for the purpose of illustration let me site 3 passages.

According to historical records, when Cyrus the Persian conquered Babylon in 535 BC, Daniel the prophet asked him to release the Jews who had been captive there for 70 years. "Why should I?" asked Cyrus. In response Daniel read him a passage from Isaiah written nearly 250 years earlier. In the passage Cyrus was mentioned by name, and the method by which he had just conquered Babylon was described in detail (Isaiah 45:1-7). This fulfilled prophecy persuaded Cyrus and he freed the Jews.

When Alexander the Great read Daniel's vision of the Ram and the Goat (Daniel 8:1-8), he became convinced that the vision spoke of the way Greece had conquered Persia under his leadership, and from that time forward afforded the Jews special treatment. Upon entering Jerusalem, Alexander bowed before the High Priest and spared the city. He appointed Jewish administrators over much of his kingdom, and it was in the city of Alexandria that a grandson of Alexander's had the Old Testament translated into Greek so the world could read it. By the way Daniel had his vision over 200 years before Alexander was born.

The first 35 verses of Daniel 11 document in advance the history of the Middle East from the death of Alexander to the arrival of the Romans in such great detail that unbelievers have spent hundreds of years trying to prove that it was written after the fact. As a result Daniel is the most historically documented book in the entire Old Testament


Controlling The Masses

World leaders have long known that the way to repress the people is to keep them ignorant. This principle was developed by Satan himself and is being used most effectively on our generation. In the early days of the church, he persuaded Gentile leaders to separate the church from its Jewish roots, ignore the Old Testament and jettison 4000 years of Jewish commentary on life in a covenant relationship with God. (As a result the Gentile world has spent much of the last 2000 years re-discovering principles of sanitation, health, and inter-personal relationships that Moses first wrote about in the wilderness.) During the Dark Ages the Bible was available only to monks in monasteries and the church itself became an instrument of incredible repression and persecution. In our century the Bible has been so thoroughly discredited by the introduction of the Documentary Hypothesis and Modern Rationalism into our seminaries that much of the Church no longer regards either Testament as relevant to our times. And of course the elimination of even the mention of God's name from our schools means that many in our current generation have never even seen a Bible and probably wouldn't know where to find one, much less how to read it.

Even this was prophesied in Scripture: "The days are coming," declares the Sovereign Lord, "when I will send a famine through the land – not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the Lord." (Amos 8:11). Never in the history of the world has spiritual ignorance been so prevalent. It's remarkable when you think of it, because our current state of ignorance has been created only recently. Many of our great universities, like Harvard, Princeton and Yale were founded as seminaries that subscribed to a literal interpretation of God's word. Our public school system began in churches, and the earliest primers, used to teach children to read, were adapted from the Gospel of John. Our nation's departure from its Christian heritage has taken place in the span of just 2 generations.

But the evidence of predictive prophecy still remains. We haven't burned our books yet, so all you have to do to convince yourself that God exists is to pick up a few of them. Get a Study Bible, a competent volume on world history, and a reference book or two such as the Complete Works of Flavius Josephus to tie them together. Then begin reading. You'll soon discover that by whatever standard you decide to use, rules of evidence as used by an attorney, statistical probability as used by a mathematician, or forensic logic as used by a debater, the evidence of God's existence will become as obvious as the nose on your face. You can take His word for that: "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13).

[*islandgirl4eva*]

Proving the Existence of God

When asked how he could be so certain that God exists, one great theologian responded with a 2 word answer, "The Jew." The continued survival of the Jewish people in spite of numerous and concerted efforts to exterminate them unequivocally demonstrates God's existence, His presence in the world and His involvement in the affairs of man.

First let's understand that the Jewish people were chosen by God to accomplish four things:

To be a witness for Him (Isaiah 43:10)
To show forth His blessings (Isaiah 49:3)
To be a repository for His Word (Isaiah 42:9), and

Because He instilled in them a desire to be so meticulous in preserving His word, we have in the Old Testament a document that when compared to secular accounts of world history provides irrefutable evidence of God's existence.


Is That You, God?

Let me put it this way. If someone came to you and claimed to be God, what would be the most convincing proof he could offer to convince you that he really was? Many people I've asked have responded that if he could tell them things no one could know they would be impressed enough to at least give him the benefit of the doubt. When I say "What if he told you things that haven't happened yet? And then when the events he predicted came to pass just as he described them with 100% accuracy, would that persuade you?" Invariably the answer I get is "Yes."

Well that's exactly what God has done. Listen to His claim from Isaiah 42:8-9. "I am the Lord, that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. See, the former things have taken place (what I told you would happen has happened) and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you.

Of all the so-called Holy Writings, only the Bible authenticates itself like this. In fact God challenges anyone else claiming to be like Him to prove himself this way. "This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty. I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people and what is yet to come – yes. Let him foretell what will come" (Isaiah 44:6-7). If you want to be God, there's a two-question qualification exam. First recount in detail everything that has happened in the past, and then predict everything that will happen in the future. By the way, the only acceptable score is 100%. (Deut 18:21-22)


Knowing The End From The Beginning

We call this means by which God authenticates Himself predictive prophecy. By most accounts the Bible is 30-40% predictive prophecy by volume. A lot of it has been fulfilled and is there waiting to be compared to history as evidence of God's existence. Much more is being fulfilled right before our eyes through the Nation of Israel as irrefutable proof. But just for the purpose of illustration let me site 3 passages.

According to historical records, when Cyrus the Persian conquered Babylon in 535 BC, Daniel the prophet asked him to release the Jews who had been captive there for 70 years. "Why should I?" asked Cyrus. In response Daniel read him a passage from Isaiah written nearly 250 years earlier. In the passage Cyrus was mentioned by name, and the method by which he had just conquered Babylon was described in detail (Isaiah 45:1-7). This fulfilled prophecy persuaded Cyrus and he freed the Jews.

When Alexander the Great read Daniel's vision of the Ram and the Goat (Daniel 8:1-8), he became convinced that the vision spoke of the way Greece had conquered Persia under his leadership, and from that time forward afforded the Jews special treatment. Upon entering Jerusalem, Alexander bowed before the High Priest and spared the city. He appointed Jewish administrators over much of his kingdom, and it was in the city of Alexandria that a grandson of Alexander's had the Old Testament translated into Greek so the world could read it. By the way Daniel had his vision over 200 years before Alexander was born.

The first 35 verses of Daniel 11 document in advance the history of the Middle East from the death of Alexander to the arrival of the Romans in such great detail that unbelievers have spent hundreds of years trying to prove that it was written after the fact. As a result Daniel is the most historically documented book in the entire Old Testament


Controlling The Masses

World leaders have long known that the way to repress the people is to keep them ignorant. This principle was developed by Satan himself and is being used most effectively on our generation. In the early days of the church, he persuaded Gentile leaders to separate the church from its Jewish roots, ignore the Old Testament and jettison 4000 years of Jewish commentary on life in a covenant relationship with God. (As a result the Gentile world has spent much of the last 2000 years re-discovering principles of sanitation, health, and inter-personal relationships that Moses first wrote about in the wilderness.) During the Dark Ages the Bible was available only to monks in monasteries and the church itself became an instrument of incredible repression and persecution. In our century the Bible has been so thoroughly discredited by the introduction of the Documentary Hypothesis and Modern Rationalism into our seminaries that much of the Church no longer regards either Testament as relevant to our times. And of course the elimination of even the mention of God's name from our schools means that many in our current generation have never even seen a Bible and probably wouldn't know where to find one, much less how to read it.

Even this was prophesied in Scripture: "The days are coming," declares the Sovereign Lord, "when I will send a famine through the land – not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the Lord." (Amos 8:11). Never in the history of the world has spiritual ignorance been so prevalent. It's remarkable when you think of it, because our current state of ignorance has been created only recently. Many of our great universities, like Harvard, Princeton and Yale were founded as seminaries that subscribed to a literal interpretation of God's word. Our public school system began in churches, and the earliest primers, used to teach children to read, were adapted from the Gospel of John. Our nation's departure from its Christian heritage has taken place in the span of just 2 generations.

But the evidence of predictive prophecy still remains. We haven't burned our books yet, so all you have to do to convince yourself that God exists is to pick up a few of them. Get a Study Bible, a competent volume on world history, and a reference book or two such as the Complete Works of Flavius Josephus to tie them together. Then begin reading. You'll soon discover that by whatever standard you decide to use, rules of evidence as used by an attorney, statistical probability as used by a mathematician, or forensic logic as used by a debater, the evidence of God's existence will become as obvious as the nose on your face. You can take His word for that: "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13).

Wow! That's really long. Sorry, I couldn't read it all, but I respect your opinion.

[waccoon]

no. including sins
if you want to sin
He wont stop you
He wont make you do anything

is a forced obedience really obedience?

God is like a gentleman, He stands at the door and knocks
it's your choice to answer Him
if you slam the door in his face and flip Him off
He will still love you
He will always be there, waiting for you


The gift has already been given, it is up to YOU to accept it

let me get this straight. he gives us free will, and is perfect. isn't being perfect knowing what you'll do next? every hour, minute, second. so if he knows what we're going to do, then that means we have no free will. at all. so why should i have to pay for my sins, when he knows im going to commit the sin?

[*AngelicEyz00*]

let me get this straight. he gives us free will, and is perfect. isn't being perfect knowing what you'll do next? every hour, minute, second. so if he knows what we're going to do, then that means we have no free will. at all. so why should i have to pay for my sins, when he knows im going to commit the sin?

Nick you confuse me, lol

please dont use G-d's name in vain. and all of you who spell it out you should be ashamed!! what if this page was to be destroyed?? would you want His name to be destroyed too??

QUOTE (v@por @ May 12 2004, 5:34 PM)
no. including sins
if you want to sin
He wont stop you
He wont make you do anything

is a forced obedience really obedience?

God is like a gentleman, He stands at the door and knocks
it's your choice to answer Him
if you slam the door in his face and flip Him off
He will still love you
He will always be there, waiting for you


The gift has already been given, it is up to YOU to accept it 


^ That was what i meant.

But one thing,
when you accept Him,
you will not want to sins anymore,
and God or Jesus did not say you can sins more or less.
Jesus forgive your sins, save you.
Why do you still want to sins before God? 

i dont belive in jesus. i belive that beliving in jesus and mary is idol worship.
and what they said about "the gift" not everyone here is christian. please watch what you say.

[likeachild]

please dont use G-d's name in vain. and all of you who spell it out you should be ashamed!! what if this page was to be destroyed?? would you want His name to be destroyed too??


i dont belive in jesus. i belive that beliving in jesus and mary is idol worship.
and what they said about "the gift" not everyone here is christian. please watch what you say.

don't take offense to it
i'm just telling you
it's your choice to believe it or not

[*krnxswat*]

The ones who believe in the existence of God, especially Christians, have written many long books, short articles, and everything else in between trying to prove God's existence to the doubters. They have used examples from nature; they have constructed logical arguments using scientific facts and theories and philosophical considerations. The nonbelievers have also written many books and articles trying to show that God does not exist. The believers remain believers; the doubters remain doubters. Usually, nothing much is gained for either side by these arguments.

[Spirited Away]

the Bible was written by hundreds of men over thousands of years...and yet it still proves itself true it ... fits together perfectly

explain that.

I'll gladly explain why it doesn't fit for me.

Those who have written these verses have long believed in the same faith. They grew up already believing or were already looking for something/someone for salvation. God was the perfect choice because they were taught that He is loving and kind. These hundreds of thousands of men who wrote it doesn't convince me of God's existence because they're only saying that they've experience this 'revelation' of knowing God exist >>>

I can't believe something that only someone else have said, therefore, I don't believe in the Bible.

What I do believe in is that there a possibility that God does exist because no one can disprove that concept.

[likeachild]

I'll gladly explain why it doesn't fit for me.

Those who have written these verses have long believed in the same faith. They grew up already believing or were already looking for something/someone for salvation. God was the perfect choice because they were taught that He is loving and kind. These hundreds of thousands of men who wrote it doesn't convince me of God's existence because they're only saying that they've experience this 'revelation' of knowing God exist >>>

I can't believe something that only someone else have said, therefore, I don't believe in the Bible.

What I do believe in is that there a possibility that God does exist because no one can disprove that concept.

what i'm saying is that it proves itself

like for example in a book in the old testament
it talks jesus being sent to earth
now that was written like 1000 BC

then, 1000 years later
in the new testament
people write about jesus and his teachings and how they've seen miracles

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Faith in God as Creator is reasonable because creation requires a creator. If one sees a lovely, well built house, he does not say, "I wonder how that house came into existence." He knows that the existence of the house means that someone built it. This is also true of our world. The fact that it exists requires that there must be one who built it. "For every house is built by someone, but he that built all things is God" (Hebrews 3:4).

Faith in God as the Creator of all things is reasonable because life can only come from life! Everyone understands that that which is dead can not produce that which is alive. In Europe during the Middle Ages, people were very ignorant. They believed in "spontaneous generation," that is, that non-living things could give birth to living things. Louis Pasteur, a great French scientist in the 19th century, proved that spontaneous generation is false. Only life can produce life!

Let us make application to the world and the people in it. How did it come to be? There are only two possibilities. Either the world and all living things in it came from dead, non-living, non-thinking matter, or it came from mind, intelligence, life, therefore God. What do you think? Does a nest create a bird to sit in it, or does the bird, a living being, create the nest? Does a car make a man to drive it, or does the man who is living and intelligent create the car? It is totally unreasonable to believe that the earth which is filled with living plants, animals and persons was brought into being by dead matter. However, it is very reasonable to believe that a supreme, intelligent being, God, brought into existence the universe and the wonderful varieties of life which live in it.

It is also reasonable to believe in God as Creator because of the plan and purpose in the universe. The universe operates according to law. Scientists are busy discovering these laws which they use for man's benefit. The order and design of the laws point to a mastermind who originated them. It is not possible that our orderly universe happened by chance. For example, the earth is 93,000,000 miles from the sun. If the earth were closer, it would burn up. If it were farther away, the earth would freeze. Did this just happen by chance? Or, did a living Mind, God, design this?

Did the complex universe which operates in such orderly fashion, according to definite laws, just happen by chance? Or, is it the result of an intelligent God who created it? It would be more reasonable to assume that the telephone directory of Sydney, Australia, a city of 4,000,000 people, just happened by chance than to assume that the orderly universe came into existence by chance!

It is reasonable to believe that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1). Only a powerful, highly intelligent God could have created the wonderful, complex world in which we live. Truly, "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" (Psalms 14:1).

[waccoon]

what i'm saying is that it proves itself

like for example in a book in the old testament
it talks jesus being sent to earth
now that was written like 1000 BC

then, 1000 years later
in the new testament
people write about jesus and his teachings and how they've seen miracles

it's not like they havent heard the old testament before. they're continuting the story.

[Luster Soldier]

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and.....

Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son?
Student :  Yes, sir.
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student: Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student : Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student :Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student : No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student : From...God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student :Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student : No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality.You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God.You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not  teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face
unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir.. The link between man and god is FAITH.
That is all that keeps things moving alive.

Something I read from my friend's xanga.

All you need is faith. If you believe in Jesus, he's there for you. If he exists or not doesn't matter as long as you have faith.

[onenonly101]

Alot of Christian did not grow up believing. Many people came to see the works of God, that's why they believe now. I brought up believeing in evolution becaus eof what someone else said as how can you say you can't believe the bible and God when it has been proven. The bible was written by man, but God spoke through the men to have his Word for everyone to have a reference to. I have more but Ihave to do a project

[likeachild]

let me get this straight. he gives us free will, and is perfect. isn't being perfect knowing what you'll do next? every hour, minute, second. so if he knows what we're going to do, then that means we have no free will. at all. so why should i have to pay for my sins, when he knows im going to commit the sin?

i will get back to you

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and.....

Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son?
Student :  Yes, sir.
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student: Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student : Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student :Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student : No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student : From...God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student :Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student : No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality.You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God.You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not  teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face
unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir.. The link between man and god is FAITH.
That is all that keeps things moving alive.

Why is there evil and suffering in the world?

1. The question implies that if a good God exists, then evil shouldn't because God being all powerful should stop it.
2. We need to ask and answer two questions. First, what is evil? It is that which is against God. It is anything morally bad or wrong. It is injurious, depraved, wicked. Some acceptable examples might be murder, rape, stealing, lying, and cheating. Second, if we want God to stop evil do we want Him to stop all evil or just some of it? In other words, if just some of it then why? If He were to stop only part of the evil, then we would still be asking the question, "Why is there evil in the world?".
Let's suppose that someone was about to commit murder. God would have to stop him, maybe whisper in his ear, or if that didn't work do something a little more drastic like have something fall on him, or stop his heart, or make his hands suddenly fall off. Anyway, God would have to do something.
What if somebody wanted to steal? God would have to stop him too, right? Undoubtedly, God's imagination would permit a more practical method than I have suggested, but the end results would be the same.
What about lying? If someone were to tell a lie, then to be consistent wouldn't you want God right there to stop that person from lying? After all, He couldn't let any evil occur could He?
Let's take it a step further. Suppose someone thought something evil. Then, of course, God would have to step in and prevent him from thinking anything bad at all, right? The end result would be that God could not allow anyone to think freely. Since everyone thinks and no one thinks only pure thoughts, God would be pretty busy and we wouldn't be able to think. Anyway, at what point do we stop, at the murder level, stealing level, lying level, or thinking level? As your questions implies, if you want God to stop evil, you would have to be consistent and want Him to do it everywhere all the time, not just pick and choose. It wouldn't work.
Evil is in this world partly because we give it its place but ultimately because God, in His sovereignty, permits it and keeps it under His control.
Then you might say, "Couldn't He just make us perfect and that way we wouldn't sin?" He already did that. He made a perfect angel, Satan, but he sinned. He made a perfect man, Adam, and he sinned. He made a perfect woman, Eve, and she sinned. God knows what He is doing. He made us the way we are for a purpose. We don't fully understand that purpose, but He does.
3. God is sovereign; He has the right to do as He wishes. He has the right to permit evil for accomplishing His ultimate will. How can He do that? Simple, look at the cross. It was by evil means that men lied and crucified Jesus. Yet God in His infinite wisdom used this evil for good. It was on the cross that Jesus bore our sins in His body (1 Peter. 2:24) and it is because of the cross that we can have forgiveness of sins.
4. Consider the biblical example of Joseph in the Old Testament. He was sold into slavery by his brothers. Though they meant it for evil, God meant it for good (Gen. 50:20). God is so great that nothing happens without His permission, and in that permission His ultimate plan unfolds. In His plan He is able to use for good what man intends for evil. God is in control.

[*CrackedRearView*]

Those who have written these verses have long believed in the same faith. They grew up already believing or were already looking for something/someone for salvation. God was the perfect choice because they were taught that He is loving and kind. These hundreds of thousands of men who wrote it doesn't convince me of God's existence because they're only saying that they've experience this 'revelation' of knowing God exist >>>

Excuse me unispiredfae?! Have you even read the Bible?

For one, the men who wrote the Gospel of Jesus (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were born around and even before Jesus. So, tell me how they "grew up already believing" that Jesus was the son of God?

They didn't.

They all four, along with thousands of other people witnessed Jesus and the two criminals crucified on Calvary Hill and wrote their own accounts, seperate from each other, about what they saw. Amazingly, four men (and these are only the one's whose testimonies were saved) not even communicating with each other at the time all witnessed the exact same thing; that the marginally larger than thousand pound boulder which covered the entrance to Jesus' tomb was moved, and his body was gone.

Since you're so intent on logically proving something -- logically prove to me how one man, two thousand and four years ago, moved a stone of that size.

The pulley wasn't invented. Nor cranes. You can't fit 1,000 men on either side of the boulder to move it.

Just because it may be beyond your 2004 logic-thumping mentality and your insatiable desire to explain things like the philosophes and Voltaire in the 1700's. They got nowhere, and neither are you.

You ever comprehend that some things that are beyond your understanding, like the rising of Jesus from his tomb to Heaven, may not be a load of nonsense just because your so-called "advanced knowledge" and 2,004 year headstart have their skepticisms?

It's called open mindedness. You might try it sometimes, Voltaire.

[Spirited Away]

Alot of Christian did not grow up believing.

Most do not need to. As with propaganda in politics, I've seen enough commercials and/or advertisement about this church and that church to be curious about it. If I were a child, and I see these ads, I'd be swayed to go and find out more about it. And once I'm in a Church, I am promised that there is He, who loves me unconditionally. And as a child, I would think, what a good deal this is. I can't go wrong with my Heavenly father who would ensure a place for me in Paradise and all I have to do is believe in him...

If I were that child, I'd change/convert my faith in an instant.

Many people came to see the works of God, that's why they believe now.

But some haven't seen God's miracles but they claim they do to please their parents/neighbors/friends. Religion is almost like a drug and there's peer pressure. Trust me on this as I've experienced discrimination of this kind for not being a Catholic.

The bible was written by man, but God spoke through the men to have his Word for everyone to have a reference to. I have more but Ihave to do a project

I have said that unless I've experienced it for myself, I wouldn't believe it. I don't have much faith in Man and their talks of religion, because we are flawed and are prone to greed and sometimes, we too much of the truth.

[Spirited Away]

Excuse me unispiredfae?! Have you even read the Bible?

For one, the men who wrote the Gospel of Jesus (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were born around and even before Jesus. So, tell me how they "grew up already believing" that Jesus was the son of God?

They didn't.

Shows what you know.

Many parents take their children to Church since they were babies, do they not? That is an act brainwashing in itself. As a child grows, these thoughts of God will be instilled in him/her because he/she has grown up knowing only this God.

If I'm wrong, then how do you explain children who goes to war in the name of Allah? They were taught to do so, and they were taught that since they were very little.

Since you're so intent on logically proving something -- logically prove to me how one man, two thousand and four years ago, moved a stone of that size.

I suppose I can't, but then again, I never said I didn't believe in God. . You should get to know me more before you attack me on these things.

The pulley wasn't invented. Nor cranes. You can't fit 1,000 men on either side of the boulder to move it.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to God.

Just because it may be beyond your 2004 logic-thumping mentality and your insatiable desire to explain things like the philosophes and Voltaire in the 1700's. They got nowhere, and neither are you.

I'm afraid, your anger on my disbelief is getting you no where either. To contrast that, explanationss about God's existence gets no where either because there are proofs to disprove those claims and vice versa.

You ever comprehend that some things that are beyond your understanding, like the rising of Jesus from his tomb to Heaven, may not be a load of nonsense just because your so-called "advanced knowledge" and 2,004 year headstart have their skepticisms?

I don't understand it. But then again, I don't believe in Jesus, so I don't care to understand it. AND SINCE WHEN HAVE I SAID ANYTHING about "ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE"?

It seems like you're the one who's trying to pressure everyone into accepting your beliefs and that's what narrow-mindedness is.

So judge yourself, before you judge others. I'm sure the Bible explains something along those lines somewhere.

[*CEP*]

God, for me, is man's answer to questions he doesn't understand.
I mean, sure it's healthy that something can make you feel good, but living your according to teachings from an EDITED book is pretty damned stupid.

- Chinkieeyedpnoi

[strice]

God? if anything sounds more like BIG BROTHER, for those whohave read 1984.

[so0o_contagious]

well.. yeah, g-d didnt actually walk on water, or caused locusts to take over, its just an example of how strong and powerful his beliefs were. over the years, the story kinda gets modified by exaderation (dammit.. sp) like.. lets say.. you en this person is dating. en say this was in 6th grade, an you tell someone.. they tell other people. en the story becomes: omg! they hugged and kissed and madeout en stuff.. argh.. i lost my point. lol.

[tkproduce]

There's a perfectly legitimate scientific theory that our universe is constantly splitting into other ones. In one universe, you had bacon and eggs this morning, while in another universe, you just had cereal. In another universe, you might not exist at all because your parents decided not to have any children. In fact, this splitting of universes occurs every time a single electron "makes" a choice. This concept of parallel universes is one of the few ways scientists have managed to explain the electron diffraction phenomena where electrons seem to have a mind of its own.

So if the universe is constantly splitting into other ones, then whatever choice you make in this universe, you'll be making a different one in another universe. You just hope that you've made the right choice in the universe you are in. For us humans, who are "built" to think in 3D, it's quite hard to grasp this concept. And since we're built in 3D, it'll probably be impossible for us to interact with the other universes. So what can? God? I don't know. But I'd like to believe that there's something connecting all these "parallel universes" together and that some super-human being can freely interact with all of them.

Someone disprove me parallel universes, before you even TRY to disprove God.

Jews do not casually write any Name of God. This practice does not come from the commandment not to take the Lord's Name in vain, as many suppose. In Jewish thought, that commandment refers solely to oath-taking, and is a prohibition against swearing by God's Name falsely or frivolously (the word normally translated as "in vain" literally means "for falsehood").

Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing a Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better.

don't take offense to it
i'm just telling you
it's your choice to believe it or not

well i dont belive in jesus christ. actually thats not true. from the day he was born to the day that he died jesus was jew.