Columbine High School Shooting Massacre, Way back in April 20, 1999 Options

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

Sorry if there is a topic like this!

I recently watched a documentary called Bowling for Columbine. It's basically about a high school massacre in Columbine High School and the director's thoughts on gun violence.


Anyways I really want to talk about the high school shooting a bit more. It's the second deadliest attack on a school and the deadliest school shooting. The two shooters, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and teachers and injured 24 others. The documentary I mentioned earlier has detailed footage of what had happened through the security cameras (boy were they brutal). These two students were "out-casts" of the school and were full of hatred towards their fellow students.

The Columbine High School massacre occurred on Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at Columbine High School in unincorporated Jefferson County, Colorado, near Denver and Littleton, Colorado, in the United States. Two teenage students, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, carried out a shooting rampage, killing twelve fellow students and a teacher, as well as wounding twenty-four others, before committing suicide. It is considered to be the deadliest school shooting, and the second deadliest attack on a school in US History.

The massacre provoked refined debate regarding gun control laws and the availability of firearms in the United States. Much discussion also centered on the nature of high school cliques and bullying, as well as the role of violent movies and video games in American society. Several of the victims who were believed to have been killed due to their religious beliefs became a source of inspiration to others, notably Christians, and led some to lament the decline of religion in public education and society in general. The shooting also resulted in an increased emphasis on school security, and a moral panic aimed at goth culture, heavy metal music, social pariahs, the use of pharmaceutical anti-depressants by teenagers, violent films and violent video games

here is a detailed article of it:
Wikipedia explains what happened before, during, and after the shooting
The Depressive and the Psychopath

I know this happened years ago, but I want to see if there were people who actually went to Columbine, heard of it in the news by the time it came out, and a few of your reactions (and theories as to why this happened).

[*mipadi*]

I remember it really well. I was in seventh grade when it happened. There had been a rash of school shootings in the previous months, but nothing like this. I just remember that everyone went crazy about it. Suddenly we weren't learning about fire drills or tornado drills; we were learning how to lock down doors, and where to hide in a classroom to avoid gunfire. We were learning how to signal to SWAT teams that were were in a room, or that there were wounded students with us. We were getting randomly searched for weapons, and pretty much every semi-depressed kid seemed to be a suspect for a major shooting. Teachers were required to lock their doors, except at the beginning and end of classes.

I guess the thing I remember most was that things were never quite the same again. Even years later, schools still seemed on edge. Doors weren't required to be locked, backpacks weren't searched, and dark, depressed kids weren't suspected of harboring thoughts of a bloodbath. But even so, it was still dangerous to say something like "I'm so mad I could kill that guy" or make any joke remotely alluding to blowing up the school.

I don't think about it much now (partly because I'm not in an elementary or secondary school anymore) but I still have memories of how the massacre at Columbine changed everything. It really did leave a mark all across the US.

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

^O where are you now? College?

I was in the Philippines when this happened so I really NEVER knew of this until I saw the documentary. I was just upset how people pointed fingers at certain groups and how (before the shooting) these two shooters were ignored (kinda but they were given some help that didn't change a goddamn thing). The second article kind of prooved that it was the messed up media's fault (besides the bullying) that caused this rampage. I guess it taught bullies a lesson?

[technicolour]

Don't completly trust a documentary...half the time they're souped up with crap.

Buttt...this made everyone paranoid. My school suddenly got 500x more freaky. More people brought knives, there were more drug busts..it's like all of a sudden everyone said "Let's all bring knives!" or "Drugggssss!" .

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

^HOLY shiiit seriously? So you're saying it influenced trouble makers a bit more?

And yeah true most documentaries are messed up but Michael Moore is extremely good with bring up points.

BUT WHAT REALLY UPSET ME was that the two shooters shot a few students that were innocent and never really reacted to/with them. I'm just glad those who were actually friends with the shooters were spared.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

I remember this. We discussed it a few times in elementary school when I was in 6th grade, because a man had a shotgun and he was in our field, and yeah.

In 8th grade we talked about it as well. Ive watched that same documentary I think. But, the shooting was horrible, as would anyone would think. But Im just about speechless when it comes to the topic about it. I really dont know what to say.

[technicolour]

Points that he stretches with lies.

-shuts up about it now-

Yesss it was weird! It was like all of a sudden even MORE people decided to reek havoc.

(I was in the 4th grade @ the time..but my brother was @ the HS and he told us...)

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

Points that he stretches with lies.

-shuts up about it now-

Yesss it was weird! It was like all of a sudden even MORE people decided to reek havoc.

(I was in the 4th grade @ the time..but my brother was @ the HS and he told us...)

Wait did you even watch the documentary?

//edit

I'm assuming you did

Bella, did anyone get shot????

[technicolour]

-shuts up about it now-

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

Yen - Oh, no. My school had a lot of lockdowns in elementary and a few in middle school because of "dangerous" persons lurking in the school.

[Smoogrish]

This was really scary. I think I was in first grade when this happened. All I remember is that we watched it on TV and I was really scared.. I kept thinking of all those people dying and wondering if we were going to die too.

I didn't like that at all.

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

^Yeah it's scary. It makes me want to console all those people the jocks make fun of in school...

[xTINAA]

I remember that shooting very well. I remember being worried thinking my friend went there (because this happened in Colorado and I live in Colorado) and I remember how people left school early because their parents were scared it could happen at our schools.

Everything I think has been changed since then. More security and rules at school for sure.

[Teesa]

Yeah, I was in the fifth grade when it happened. I live in Colorado, so everyone was so shaken up about it. Well, I know I'll never forget that day. It's really vivid. The teachers wouldn't tell us what was going on, but when I got home, my parents hugged me real tight and asked me if I was okay. I was confused, but after I watched the news all day, I just cried and cried. I was so angry at the Harris and Klebold. We went to this memorial service for all the kids and the teacher that died.
The security tightened SO much at all the schools.

[NoSex]

My school made international headlines, but we didn't have any fatalities, so we are relatively unknown. We had a religious nut try to cut up sinners with a folding tree saw and a machete. Blood everywhere in the hallways. Seven kids got sliced up pretty bad, but no one died. Mr. Gordon tackled the kid. People cry on newspapers, it was lame.

Anyways, Yeah. Columbine, I do remember rather vividly. I think I stayed home from school that day so I spent most of my time watching the reports on the news. I remember the SWAT teams not doing their jobs. I remember alot of people freaking out. Most of all I remember how extreme schools became with zero-tolerance policy. Also, the backlash against violent video games, Marilyn Manson, and homosexuality. Very odd times. Of all the crazy ass theories, it was really hard to find anyone talking about social stigmas and realities. Most seemed a hell of a lot more comfortable blaming the entire thing on a few Manson songs and Doom. Real lame.

Also, the entire situation spawned the worst movie ever made, Gus Van Sant's Elephant. I want to stab myself now. Bye.

[EddieV]

Damn that Doom Game.

[*Programmer*]

it all halo's fault

[NoSex]

Damn that Doom Game.

Word.

Hell on Mars, what blasphemy!

[EddieV]

it all halo's fault

It was Doom.

[uLoVeMikeRoch]

Sorry if there is a topic like this!

I recently watched a documentary called Bowling for Columbine. It's basically about a high school massacre in Columbine High School and the director's thoughts on gun violence.

Why are you so interested in this? Because you saw one movie?

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

YES

[*liquidize*]

nahhh i hate the columbine guys and 9/11, because after that there were like the " TERRORIST THREATS " and the " ZERO TOLERANCE " policy that was adopted...and everything got taken really seriously...


edit//
they should have been more organized...HONORABLE DEATH BY SUICIDE!

[AngelinaTaylor]

Don't completly trust a documentary...half the time they're souped up with crap.

I dug up a site for you - one that you'll enjoy, it's about the "Bowling for Columbine" documentary and how it is not "scouped up with crap".

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

I still don't understand why people (well, TEENAGERS) would pull guns out and start shooting their peers. It doesn't make sense to me. What the hell would make someone, especially at that age, kill someone else? >.<

Taylor``

[misoshiru]

^ That's because the website you got it from, was from the guy - Michael Moore who DIRECTED and PRODUCED Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 911.

Anyhow, there's a thread on Bowling for Columbine in the Entertainment section. So...

[islandkiss]

my teachers mentioned that pretty often; they said that we had to worry about the quiet kids. I guess that's a pretty sterotypical thing to say;

[d0t0rg]

Suicide is played out, if your going to die take people with you.

[parallel]

^That's real deep...

I saw that movie and I remember when it happened.
Just plain sad

[AngelinaTaylor]

^ That's because the website you got it from, was from the guy - Michael Moore who DIRECTED and PRODUCED Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 911.

Anyhow, there's a thread on Bowling for Columbine in the Entertainment section. So...

Yes, and guess what - he has back up for everything he says. Perhaps you should read it..

Especially the facts about 9/11 - some of them shocked the hell out of me..

And I know there's another thread, but someone closed it.. so where should I post?

Taylor``

[twin__cinema]

I'm not sure if I ever watched Bowling for Columbine. I think I started one time, but never finished... I don't know.

I have seen Fahrenheit 9/11 and some other Moore films. I do believe he occasionally stretches the truth to a degree, but for the most part, he does back everything he says very well. The dirt he can dig up on people amazes me. I'd love to have his job... Heh

I remember when that happened rather clearly. Of course, I didn't fully understand because I was only 9 years old, but knowing people got shot in their own place of education immedately installed fear in me. Quite unsettling... not to mention terrible for the people who were close to the victims. I can't imagine what their parents might've gone through.. Wow.

[sillakilla220]

really not a big deal kids get shot all the time in the hood, harris and kleibold are f**kin idiots for not blowing up those bombs in the kitchen, then they REALLY woulda been legendary

[colleen92]

i remember when it happened. i was really young. like 7 or 8. my dad was really upset about it so he bought the book "she said yes." i was too young to read it then, but i did read it last year. i made me cry. it actually changed me. and i know ppl say that all the time to be dramatic, but it really did. i began to realize that i could die at any moment. i began to pray a lot more. i'll go over the Nicene Creed in my head and say Hail Marys in class. i really loved that book.

really not a big deal kids get shot all the time in the hood, harris and kleibold are f**kin idiots for not blowing up those bombs in the kitchen, then they REALLY woulda been legendary

^i can't believe you just said that. she died because she believed in God. she didn't back down. she knew she was going to die if she said yes, but she said it anyway.

[NoSex]

i can't believe you just said that. she died because she believed in God. she didn't back down. she knew she was going to die if she said yes, but she said it anyway.

Why should we feel sorry for her then? She practically commited suicide!
That's just real crack head behavior.

“I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.”
- - - Bertrand Russell

[AngryBaby]

I remember it really well. I was in seventh grade when it happened. There had been a rash of school shootings in the previous months, but nothing like this. I just remember that everyone went crazy about it. Suddenly we weren't learning about fire drills or tornado drills; we were learning how to lock down doors, and where to hide in a classroom to avoid gunfire. We were learning how to signal to SWAT teams that were were in a room, or that there were wounded students with us. We were getting randomly searched for weapons, and pretty much every semi-depressed kid seemed to be a suspect for a major shooting. Teachers were required to lock their doors, except at the beginning and end of classes.

I guess the thing I remember most was that things were never quite the same again. Even years later, schools still seemed on edge. Doors weren't required to be locked, backpacks weren't searched, and dark, depressed kids weren't suspected of harboring thoughts of a bloodbath. But even so, it was still dangerous to say something like "I'm so mad I could kill that guy" or make any joke remotely alluding to blowing up the school.

I don't think about it much now (partly because I'm not in an elementary or secondary school anymore) but I still have memories of how the massacre at Columbine changed everything. It really did leave a mark all across the US.

yeah thats pretty much exactly how it was for me.
they even had a fake predator to test us...

[colleen92]

Why should we feel sorry for her then? She practically commited suicide!
That's just real crack head behavior.

“I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.”
- - - Bertrand Russell

she didn't commit suicide. she was willing to die for what she believed in. she loved God that much. i respect her because, i love God and i would like to think that i would die for him, but i think i would freak. i respect her because she didn't lie even though she knew it would cost her life.

[NoSex]

she didn't commit suicide. she was willing to die for what she believed in. she loved God that much. i respect her because, i love God and i would like to think that i would die for him, but i think i would freak. i respect her because she didn't lie even though she knew it would cost her life.

It's like, lie or get shot in the face? Sorry, but I think I would rather lie. Also, do you honestly think God is so egotistical and insane that he would rather have you shot in the face? Wait, yeah. You're probably right. I'm sure God was very pleased.

[colleen92]

It's like, lie or get shot in the face? Sorry, but I think I would rather lie. Also, do you honestly think God is so egotistical and insane that he would rather have you shot in the face? Wait, yeah. You're probably right. I'm sure God was very pleased.

how did even get from the things that i've said that i think God is egotistical and insane? that's bull. and are you honestly telling me that you think she died for nothing? if she died for nothing why would anyone have made such a big deal about it in the first place? answer me that.

[d0t0rg]

really not a big deal kids get shot all the time in the hood, harris and kleibold are f**kin idiots for not blowing up those bombs in the kitchen, then they REALLY woulda been legendary

Yeah but their bitch asses don't rack up big numbers. All they do is shoot, run/drive away. You don't see that in the hood, do you.

[*Libertie*]

Man.. I remember it, as well. I was in seventh grade and it was my first year in a new school. I had just started going to a new church with a friend of mine on Wednesday nights and I was brainwashed (pardon my choice of words) into being terrified of the same thing happening to me. I actually quite liked Bowling for Columbine. I know that every year on 4/20 from then on in school we had a moment of silence at.. 9:02, was it?

Bit of useless information, April 20th is my engagement anniversary.

[NoSex]

how did even get from the things that i've said that i think God is egotistical and insane? that's bull. and are you honestly telling me that you think she died for nothing? if she died for nothing why would anyone have made such a big deal about it in the first place? answer me that.

Try to go back and read the posts. You might be able to catch on. I'm suggesting that any kind of decent God would have rather had her lie and save her life than die by uttering his name. I'm saying any God that would rather have her shot in the face would be sick, twisted, egotistical, and insane.

Also, yes. I think she clearly died for nothing. It's unfortunate she was made to feel so guilty in respect to fairy tale characters. People make big deals out of all sorts of things, that doesn't ever mean anything. This happens to be one of those things. It's like an argument from popularity.

Heck, the real fuss and "big deal" being made out of this should be an open dialouge on how easily she could have saved her life as opposed to praising her for doing something so foolish. If we could look at this more seriously, practically, and sensibly, then maybe we can cut down on all that silly martyrdom. Save a few lives. I mean, I hate to apologize for rather having the girl alive than dead. I guess, if you truly like her better that way.

But, I guess that would be taboo to say she died for nothing. So I better not say it, huh?

Popular sure doesn't mean right.

[*mipadi*]

The story that the girl died because she professed her belief in God is a nice story, but it's not true, by all witness accounts.[1] (Some, however, do attribute the exchange to a girl who, in fact, survived—which can bring up a whole new element in this discussion, it would seem, but that's tangential to the point at hand.)

Of course, it seems dishonorable to her memory, at least in this context, to discuss the irrationality of her actions (assuming the story is true, which it is not) and whether or not she deserved to die because of her assertions.

[camerafanny]

hey thats my birthday... i turned 8 that day.

[colleen92]

Try to go back and read the posts. You might be able to catch on. I'm suggesting that any kind of decent God would have rather had her lie and save her life than die by uttering his name. I'm saying any God that would rather have her shot in the face would be sick, twisted, egotistical, and insane.

Also, yes. I think she clearly died for nothing. It's unfortunate she was made to feel so guilty in respect to fairy tale characters. People make big deals out of all sorts of things, that doesn't ever mean anything. This happens to be one of those things. It's like an argument from popularity.

Heck, the real fuss and "big deal" being made out of this should be an open dialouge on how easily she could have saved her life as opposed to praising her for doing something so foolish. If we could look at this more seriously, practically, and sensibly, then maybe we can cut down on all that silly martyrdom. Save a few lives. I mean, I hate to apologize for rather having the girl alive than dead. I guess, if you truly like her better that way.

But, I guess that would be taboo to say she died for nothing. So I better not say it, huh?

Popular sure doesn't mean right.

How can you call martrydom foolish? It takes so much wisdom to be able to choose what's more important: your soul or your life. Your soul lasts forever; your life doesn't. She knew she'd go to Heaven, so she didn't hesitate. She knew it'd be ok. How can you call someone that made that kind of choice foolish? They had to make a harder choice than you and I will probably ever have to make. I wouldn't second guess someone like that.

I hate to apologize for rather having her be proud of her beliefs. I'd much rather have had her cower... I don't see how you can't have the least bit of respect for her.

I'm not saying you can't say she died for nothing, I'm saying I can't believe you actually did.

[NoSex]

Believe it now motha f**ker!

Tonto to jump on it! Jump on it! Jump on it!
Kimosabi jump on it! Jump on it! Jump on it!
Coaster jump on it! Jump on it! Jump on it!
Apache jump on it! Jump on it! Jump on it!



Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[*Weird addiction*]

Ok...She died for her beliefs, that IS a good thing, nobody should question it. If you won't die for your beliefs (if you have one), that's your shit...now leave the dead girl's shit alone.

[NoSex]

Ok...She died for her beliefs, that IS a good thing, nobody should question it. If you won't die for your beliefs (if you have one), that's your shit...now leave the dead girl's shit alone.

You're so right! Dieing for your beliefs is always a good thing and no one should ever ever question it!

I guess she didn't even die the way we have been told for so many years. It's just a nice, sweet, and "uplifting" urban legend. She said nothing.

Ahunga Ahunga Ahunga!

[Edit; 4/7/2006 1:57PM: At this point I don't care anymore. If you havn't noticed. I'm awfully sleep deprived and these comments are making me sick. So, instead of taking them seriously, I'm making it a huge joke. At what exspense? Eh. And the real irony: In the time I explained myself here, I could have taken this more seriously at this point and avoided the problem altogether. Whatever, that's just what I believe. I guess I'll go die for it now. Be proud!]

[*Weird addiction*]

...damn...just damn. Soooo...

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

What I don't get is how this argument started (I only read up to the post after sillakilla's). This girl quoted Sillakilla saying how harry and kleibod were idiots for not bombing the cafeteria and all of a sudden she says, "That girl died for her beliefs"...what the hell?

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

^^^what she said. Also, I have lots of respect for the two shooters. Not only did they plan an efficient attack they executed it smoothly (except for the bombs). It also took alot of balls to do what they did. I don't want people to think I'm glad people got killed, but those kids showed some balls and brains to do that.

[*Blow_Don't_SUCK*]

^I would've agreed with you but they commited suicide. If they didn't kill themselves after the whole shiit then I would consider them brave enough to go to jail.

[tanichick]

Oh my gosh.. I remember this... it happened to me when I was in 5th grade, everybody's backpacks were searched. And everyone was incredibly paranoid.

[colleen92]

Ok...She died for her beliefs, that IS a good thing, nobody should question it. If you won't die for your beliefs (if you have one), that's your shit...now leave the dead girl's shit alone.

i agree. she did what she did and we shouldn't be arguing about a decision that's already been made. i'm sorry if i stirred up an arguement, but i just felt it was wrong what people were saying. i'll believe what i believe and you believe what you believe

[jue]

I've heard of it, and it sort of reminds me of 911. But anywhoo's >_>
i think over the time period, things have changed and there is more security added to every school to prevent an event like that to happen again. Hmm and as for the 2 kids that went around shooting people, im thinking that they were upset at the fact that they were out-casts of the school and many made fun of them?
And thats why bullying and labels are so gay >_>

[CHiiCKENBUTT]

Why should we feel sorry for her then? She practically commited suicide!
That's just real crack head behavior.

“I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.”
- - - Bertrand Russell

she didn't commit suicide she died for god. there's nothing wrong with that. this was a really sad story. & i wouldn't lie about someone like god just to save my life. that's crack head behavior. TELL THE TRUTH about god. jeez people.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

^^^ well if you want to die for a God that you don't even know exists, then thats all you. It's not crackhead behavior to deny God to save your life. f**k that.

[kimmytree]

Yeah, I remember. It happened when I was in 4th grade. I dont think the school really planned on telling us. But when we were about to watch a movie in class... the vcr was messing up and we saw clips of it on the news while the teacher was trying to fix the tv. So when ended up watching the news in class. It was pretty scary, especially for a bunch of 9 year olds.

my teachers mentioned that pretty often; they said that we had to worry about the quiet kids. I guess that's a pretty sterotypical thing to say;

Lmao. If that was necessarily true, I would have done something years ago. I'm freakishly quiet. XD

[NoSex]

i agree. she did what she did and we shouldn't be arguing about a decision that's already been made.

I think it's important. Very.

Have you not even been reading the thread? Did you not notice the rather thorough artical post by Mipadi concerning the story behind her "decision?" Did you entirely miss that the incident never even happened? It's a made up story. Did you really miss it, or did you just ignore it?

she didn't commit suicide she died for god. there's nothing wrong with that. this was a really sad story. & i wouldn't lie about someone like god just to save my life. that's crack head behavior. TELL THE TRUTH about god. jeez people.

Refer to the above.
Also, I'm going to go strap some bombs to my chest now.

Life to Allah! Allah lives!

[*I Shot JFK*]

she didn't commit suicide she died for god. there's nothing wrong with that. this was a really sad story. & i wouldn't lie about someone like god just to save my life. that's crack head behavior. TELL THE TRUTH about god. jeez people.

you, my dear, would make a great little terrorist.

Also, I'm going to go strap some bombs to my chest now.

Life to Allah! Allah lives!

how dissapointing... it had already been said

[colleen92]

I think it's important. Very.

Have you not even been reading the thread? Did you not notice the rather thorough artical post by Mipadi concerning the story behind her "decision?" Did you entirely miss that the incident never even happened? It's a made up story. Did you really miss it, or did you just ignore it?


Life to Allah! Allah lives!

i ignored it because it's one of the most true stories around. read She Said Yes. it tells that she did in fact say "yes" on several accounts. maybe when you read it you'll realize that it most definately was a true story and maybe you'll end up respecting her a little more than you do now.


by the way, i'm done arguing with you on this. we obviously have different points of view and we both are too stubborn to see the other side. so i'm done.

[NoSex]

i ignored it because it's one of the most true stories around. read She Said Yes. maybe you'll realize that it most definately was a true story and maybe you'll end up respecting her a little more.
by the way, i'm done arguing with you on this. we obviously have different points of view and we both are too stubborn to see the other side. so i'm done.

How is it one of the "most true stories around?" How exactly do you know such things?

Do you honestly not realize the dangerous implications your statements have? Don't you also notice that you assuming that there is indeed a god, without any real reason, and believing that this god is a particular Christian God which would favor someone dieing over them lieing about their belief in him.

What if she was a hindu and was asked if she believed in Brahma? Would it have been foolish of her to say yes then? I take it you don't believe in Hinduism.

The foolishness in praising martydom is powerful, and plentiful. This is why this is important, this is why it's dangerous.

I'm not stubborn or close minded or anything. I can definately see your side. But, I don't think it is correct. I would read the book, but I just read an article explaining why it isn't true. Although, I would still love to hear what the book has to say exactly about it (Meaning the evidence proving it ever occured in the first place).

Take a look at it. Expand your mind. By ignoring it, you're just admiting your close-minded and willing ignorance.

Here, look (From Wikipedia):

Official reports state that Harris then walked over to the table across from the lower computer row, slapped the top twice with his hand, knelt down, and said "peek-a-boo" before shooting Cassie Bernall in the head. The recoil from the weapon hit his face, breaking his nose. Although it is popularly believed that Bernall was the individual who was asked "Do you believe in God?", the official investigation has attributed this remark not to Bernall but to a surviving student, Valeen Schnurr (see below). Three students who witnessed Bernall's death, including the person that was hiding under the table with her, have testified the exchange did not occur.[16] Nevertheless, others who were in the library asserted the exchange occurred, though none of these students physically witnessed it. They may instead have heard the later exchange between Klebold and Schnurr and been mislead by news reports attributing the words to Bernall. This misunderstanding sparked much debate as to whether the official investigation thoroughly assessed all possibilities.

The official investigation into the shootings concluded that Cassie did not have the exchange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Hig...of_the_shooters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

either way she got shot in the face. damn, kleibold and harris sure knew how to get their gangsta on

[*Statues/Shadows*]

either way she got shot in the face. damn, kleibold and harris sure knew how to get their gangsta on

Do shut up.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

Do shut up.

If you don't like my opinion you don't have to respond to it. You post some stupid things too y'know.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I don't doubt that, in fact I'm perfectly well aware of it, but that hardly gives you the right to be repulsive.

[Tribal J_Rome]

If you don't like my opinion you don't have to respond to it. You post some stupid things too y'know.

[colleen92]

How is it one of the "most true stories around?" How exactly do you know such things?

Do you honestly not realize the dangerous implications your statements have? Don't you also notice that you assuming that there is indeed a god, without any real reason, and believing that this god is a particular Christian God which would favor someone dieing over them lieing about their belief in him.

What if she was a hindu and was asked if she believed in Brahma? Would it have been foolish of her to say yes then? I take it you don't believe in Hinduism.

The foolishness in praising martydom is powerful, and plentiful. This is why this is important, this is why it's dangerous.

I'm not stubborn or close minded or anything. I can definately see your side. But, I don't think it is correct. I would read the book, but I just read an article explaining why it isn't true. Although, I would still love to hear what the book has to say exactly about it (Meaning the evidence proving it ever occured in the first place).

Take a look at it. Expand your mind. By ignoring it, you're just admiting your close-minded and willing ignorance.

Here, look (From Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Hig...of_the_shooters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall

And I can see your side, too. I just don't agree with it either. I do wish you would read the book because it was written by her mother and has more than enough people that have said what happened in it.

I read the article. I think it is interesting there are two extremely different sides of the story. All over whether she said the word "yes" or not. Either way I'd like to share with you a quote from the book that I have been referring to this entire time:

I couldn't see anything when those guys came up to Cassie, but I could recognize her voice. I could hear everything like it was right next to me. One of them asked her if she believed in God. She paused, like she didn't know what she was going to answer, and then she said yes. She must have been scared, but her voices didn't sound shaky. It was strong. Then they asked her why, though they didn't giver her a chance to respond. They just blew her away. (Bernall, 14)

The boy that said this was under a desk about 25 feet away.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

I don't doubt that, in fact I'm perfectly well aware of it, but that hardly gives you the right to be repulsive.

I'm repulsive b/c I say Kleibold and Harris were gangsta for shooting some bitch in the face? Ok. That makes perfect sense. Oh wait, no it doesn't.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

You're repulsive for respecting psychotic murderers. Also, "gengster" really isn't the best way to describe them. But I'm not going to argue with the deluded.

[*jooleeah*]

this somewhat relates, i guess.

soooo. this happened somewhat recently at a friend's school:

Centennial High Teen Charged With Terroristic Threats
(WSB Radio) Roswell Police have arrested a Centennial High School sophomore accused of making online threats against school staff and classmates.
WSB's Richard Sangster reports the 16-year-old boy had a sort of Internet "hit list" on his myspace.com web blog which also named different school groups.

Authorities say, however, a search turned up no weapons or bomb-making material.

"He felt like that he was being mistreated by some of the students, and maybe by some of the staff," says Roswell Police Sgt. B. C. Brackett, "and this was the way he wanted to vent."

The boy was threatening to attack the school on next month's anniversary of the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado. He is charged with making terroristic threats, a felony.

"The student will go through our normal tribunal process, and we'll take appropriate action," says Fulton Schools spokeswoman Mitzi Edge.

At Fulton County Juvenile Court, the 16-year-old's attorney said the boy has been severely bullied and teased about his cochlear implant.

"I never knew how depressed I was. I've always been a good kid. I never felt accepted or loved by anyone except my family," the teen said in court.

The judge ordered the boy may be released to his parents, probably Saturday, under several conditions: The teen must be under adult supervision 24 hours a day; he must get psychological treatment at an inpatient facility or be electronically monitored; he cannot return to Centennial High or have contact with anyone on the "hit list;" and he cannot have access to a computer.

The teen's attorney, Lee Whiteside, says the boy's parents are distraught and that the next step is to "get him the proper counseling and attention that he needs."

A tentative trial date is set for May 26.

Friday, 3.17.2006

Yeah. My friend [who is a sophomore there] said that the kid was planning to shoot all sophomores there. Bleh.

[NoSex]

And I can see your side, too. I just don't agree with it either. I do wish you would read the book because it was written by her mother and has more than enough people that have said what happened in it.

I read the article. I think it is interesting there are two extremely different sides of the story. All over whether she said the word "yes" or not. Either way I'd like to share with you a quote from the book that I have been referring to this entire time:

I couldn't see anything when those guys came up to Cassie, but I could recognize her voice. I could hear everything like it was right next to me. One of them asked her if she believed in God. She paused, like she didn't know what she was going to answer, and then she said yes. She must have been scared, but her voices didn't sound shaky. It was strong. Then they asked her why, though they didn't giver her a chance to respond. They just blew her away. (Bernall, 14)

The boy that said this was under a desk about 25 feet away.

I will look at the book since you spent some time to look at the article. But, consider this:

That boy was named Craig Scott. Craig hid under a desk 25 feet away from the desk that Cassie Bernall and Emily Wyant were hiding under. Emily Wyant is the prime witness and only person to have actually seen the death of Cassie Bernall and live to tell about it. She sat right next to her under the desk and experienced each moment with both her eyes, and her ears. Craig only heard an exchange of words between who he thought was Emily and the shooter. Emily Wyant has come out to say that no such exchange occured. The official account holds that the two girls ducked below the desk and Cassie began to pray aloud: "Dear God. Dear God. Why is this happening? I just want to
go home."

At that moment Harris slapped the top of the desk twice, knelt down, and said "peek-a-boo" before shooting Cassie in the head. No exchange of words were heard or recognized by Emily and several other witnesses have confirmed the same.

Emily Wyant's mother accounts her daughter's story:

Emily was right there next to her, and in fact, she was looking right in
her eyes, so you'd think she would be able to hear that, being right next
to her, if anything was exchanged. And she can't remember anything being
said

In the same room was a girl named Valeen Schnurr. She had been wounded by a shotgun blast and layed nearby Cassie and Emily aside another desk. Valeen prayed aloud: "Oh, my God, oh, my God, don't let me die." Harris made his way to Valeen and asked her if she believed in God. Startled for a moment she thought. She said that, "Yes," she did. Harris preceeded to ask, "Why?" Injured, afraid, and startled, Valeen thought and quickly blurted out, "Because I believe and my parents brought me up that way." Harris reloaded his gun and turned away, he then left the room. Her life was spared and she is still alive today. This is how this story is retold; straight from the horses mouth.

Other students heard this exchange and confirmed its existence. Most of which were in range and vantage to see the entire incident. However, several students could not see it, but only hear it. The same way students could not see Cassie's death. One of those students was Craig Scott; the boy you quoted.

Craig said that he had recognized Cassie's voice. However, when investigators took Craig back to the scene to recount exactly what had happened, the news reports followed:

"He did not actually see
the individuals involved ... Investigators said Scott was asked to point
out where the gunmen were at the time, and he indicated a table where
Valeen Schnurr -- not Bernall was hiding."

Craig misheard. The area he thought the exchange had happened was actually where Valeen hid. Why don't we read about this in "She Said Yes?" Why don't we hear about this at all? Why doesn't the book account dissenting views on the matter? It's because the book isn't an objective study on what actually happened. It's a tool to soothe broken hears, broken minds, broken souls, and to share that mourning with the world in the sensation of it all. It's easier to get over the death of your daughter if you feel she had died for a cause. As that cause didn't truly exist, her mother created it for her. Although this may not be so. Her mother could have been a true believer, because news reports became very mixed early after the incident. However, Cassie's mother would be aware of these dissenting views because the first paper to detail the events published Emily Wyant's version of events, not Craig Scott's.

Here it is, and exert from Valeen's graduation speech from 1999 (The year of the shooting):

Then we heard the gunmen – who we later learned were two boys from our own school – enter the library. They laughed as they shot students at random. I cried and hid my face behind the thick beam that went across the underside of the table. I continued to pray desperately.

Then I felt searing pain as gunfire hit me. The force of it knocked me out from under the table.

“God help me!” I screamed, and then looked up, directly at the gunmen.

“Do you believe in God?” one of them demanded.

At first I was terrified to say yes, but then knew I couldn’t lie.

“Yes,” I said.

“Why?” they asked, taunting.

I mumbled, now in a daze from my wounds, “It’s what my parents have taught me. It’s what I believe.”

Then I hid under the table again, weak from blood loss and hoping they would leave me alone.

Miraculously, they turned away and eventually left the library.

Official reports deny the charge that attacks were calculated in the end. No one had seemed to die for anything other than being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Sorry, as much as you seemed to have wished for it, no martyrs here. No wonderful, bitter sweet, delicate, spiritual victories. It was just a horrible and detestable event. Maybe it would be nice to believe otherwise, but let's face reality, shall we?

We know Valeen's story. She was lucky enough to be able to tell it. Now, even if we grant that Cassie may have been shot for answering the same question in the same way Valeen had, against a heap of evidence that she never did, we would have to ask ourselves a vital question, why? If they were killing for a "yes" answer, why is Valeen still able to tell her story today? Why didn't they shoot her? Why did they then leave the library? Could the opposite hypothesis be drawn? Did Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold instead respect the "yes" answer rather than despise it? If so, isn't that a scary thought?

[colleen92]

Now I don't know what to think. I find your last post very interesting, but why would Craig Scott have heard a shot after Valeen (if that's who said it) said "yes?" Because the two students never shot Valeen.

[TeeNage_WasTeLan...]

who cares??? You guys are making such a big deal over such a meaningless point. What good is it if there are obviously conflicting stories. Just believe whatever one YOU want to believe because obviously from the posts there are many stories to what really happen, and guess what? you will never know because you weren't standing right there.

[colleen92]

who cares??? You guys are making such a big deal over such a meaningless point. What good is it if there are obviously conflicting stories. Just believe whatever one YOU want to believe because obviously from the posts there are many stories to what really happen, and guess what? you will never know because you weren't standing right there.

maybe we've fought ourselves into longing to know the truth? right now i don't know what to believe. so i'd like to find out.

[NoSex]

Now I don't know what to think. I find your last post very interesting, but why would Craig Scott have heard a shot after Valeen (if that's who said it) said "yes?" Because the two students never shot Valeen.

My suggestion would be that Craig was deeply shocked by the entire event and was just simply mistaken. Witness accounts are often very inaccurate. They would be expected to be that much more inaccurate in such stressful and chaotic situations, and even that much more inaccurate given the fact that both of the shooters were firing their weapons rather randomly and there was much commotion. Note also the significance of a distance upwards to 25 feet during all this. It could have been that Craig did indeed hear a shot fired after Valeen said "yes." But, since both gunmen were firing their guns off at random and still attacking other students, the shot he heard may have come from another gun aimed somewhere else. And even beyond these considerations, the pressue the media could have placed on these children and parents for sensational stories could have been amazingly powerful, especially during such a trying time in their lives.

[*Weird addiction*]

Woot...cB's new sherlock holmes(')...I'm proud of you all kiddos...

[colleen92]

My suggestion would be that Craig was deeply shocked by the entire event and was just simply mistaken. Witness accounts are often very inaccurate. They would be expected to be that much more inaccurate in such stressful and chaotic situations, and even that much more inaccurate given the fact that both of the shooters were firing their weapons rather randomly and there was much commotion. Note also the significance of a distance upwards to 25 feet during all this. It could have been that Craig did indeed hear a shot fired after Valeen said "yes." But, since both gunmen were firing their guns off at random and still attacking other students, the shot he heard may have come from another gun aimed somewhere else. And even beyond these considerations, the pressue the media could have placed on these children and parents for sensational stories could have been amazingly powerful, especially during such a trying time in their lives.

maybe, but didn't it say that they just left the room? it said they reloaded their gun and left. where would the shot have come from? surely he wouldn't think a shot from another room was just 25 feet away. it's not that far. it's like me talking to someone on the other side of my living room. i'm sure he was scared and shocked, but could he have messed the story up that bad?

[NoSex]

maybe, but didn't it say that they just left the room? it said they reloaded their gun and left. where would the shot have come from? surely he wouldn't think a shot from another room was just 25 feet away. it's not that far. it's like me talking to someone on the other side of my living room. i'm sure he was scared and shocked, but could he have messed the story up that bad?

Well, he seems to have at least messed up a few things. If Valeen and Emily's accounts are true, Craig is just mistaken that he heard Emily's voice and that she got shot for her answer. If Craig's account is true, he still misheard in a sense, in that he reported that the area from which he heard the exchange was not the area where Emily was killed, but where Valeen experienced her exchange with Harris. Also, they did leave the library after the incident with Valeen, however, only a single gunmen was asking her the questions. The other gunmen was still firing his weapon into desks and at random.

Also, we can not be 100% positive on either way. You simply have to weigh the evidence. It seems that the evidence is pointing towards Emily and Valeen's account of the events as opposed to Craig's.

[SleepyWoodson]

This is another example of the "after the fact" reaction. They should have been, and should now be, working on preventing this sort of thing at all costs.

[bpgoalie24]

remember that

[lcjv040507]

Sorry if there is a topic like this!

I recently watched a documentary called Bowling for Columbine. It's basically about a high school massacre in Columbine High School and the director's thoughts on gun violence.
Anyways I really want to talk about the high school shooting a bit more. It's the second deadliest attack on a school and the deadliest school shooting. The two shooters, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and teachers and injured 24 others. The documentary I mentioned earlier has detailed footage of what had happened through the security cameras (boy were they brutal). These two students were "out-casts" of the school and were full of hatred towards their fellow students.
here is a detailed article of it:
Wikipedia explains what happened before, during, and after the shooting
The Depressive and the Psychopath

I know this happened years ago, but I want to see if there were people who actually went to Columbine, heard of it in the news by the time it came out, and a few of your reactions (and theories as to why this happened).

I remember what had happened on that day as if it were about an hour ago. I was in the 5th grade when it all happened. I was so sad and scared because my cousin was right in front of the school waiting for his "girlfriend" Cassie Bernall.(not really sure if thats true but its what my family believes) I went to the original memorial where the Columbine song was first sung. I was a little sad because there were protesters everywhere saying how much God didn't love us. As they were playing the Columbine song there were 13 balloons that were released into the sky. You could tell that it was a sad day because it was very gloomy outside. When those balloons were released the clouds parted in the spots where the balloons were floating and as soon as the last balloon drifted up, the clouds closed again. Since then I have been affected by this massacre. I feel that all of this could have been prevented if there were just some others that could have reached out to Harris and Klebold. I am in no way saying that any of this was the victims' fault I just feel that if those boys were to ever feel an ounce of acceptance then maybe just maybe something could have stopped them.

[huskar]

Well there's no straight forward solution to gun shootings . Taking away guns wouldn't work in a society which already has high number of guns per capita it only make the law abiding people at a disadvantage . A better psychological help unit for schools/colleges and regular help for people who are starting to devlop problems might help .