Wal-Mart Confronted on 'Happy Holidays' Options

[Chii]

Wal-Mart Confronted on 'Happy Holidays'
SACRAMENTO, Calif. - A group of religious protesters demonstrated outside a Wal-Mart superstore Saturday, hoping to turn away customers by calling attention to the retailer's decision to use "happy holidays" rather than "merry Christmas" in its seasonal advertising.

But even shoppers who agreed with the protesters weren't willing to interrupt their quest for holiday deals.

"I believe in Christ, and I don't like the use of 'xmas' or the use of 'happy holidays,'" said Steven Van Noy, 39, as he left the store loaded down with packages. "The bottom line is that they had what I needed at Wal-Mart, so I went to Wal-Mart to buy it."

Controversy over the secularization of Christmas is nothing new, but this year religious groups are publicly taking on retailers who have decided to tone down the religious aspects of the holiday in their store decorations and promotional material.

In an online petition, the American Family Association recently gathered more than 500,000 signatures asking Target to include Christmas in its promotions. Stores such as Sears and Wal-Mart are facing boycotts.

Wal-Mart spokeswoman Amy Wyatt said the company has made no effort to remove Christmas from its holiday ads. She said a promotion set to run from mid-November to early January was simply misunderstood: its slogan is "home for the holidays."

"It was a matter of choosing a slogan that carries through the entire season," Wyatt said. "The signs went up before Thanksgiving and won't be taken down until after New Year's. The idea was to focus on the family."

About 50 protesters took part in Saturday's demonstration, organized by religious leaders. d**k Otterstad of the Church of the Divide donned a Santa Claus costume and greeted shoppers with the message: Don't forget about the meaning of Christmas.

"It is insulting that Wal-Mart has chosen to ignore the reason for the season," Otterstad said. "Taking the word 'Christmas' out of the holiday implies there's something sinful about it. ... This is a part of our culture."

what is the big deal with "happy holidays"? not everyone celebrates christmas, have these people not heard of kwanzaa or hanukkah? "happy holidays" just covers all the bases.

[jennyjenny]

Exactly. Maybe people who don't celebrate Christmas should be protesting in all of the stores who use "Merry Christmas". Seriously, Wal-Mart is already crowded enough so who the hell gives a damn if they use Holidays rather than Christmas. Christmas = a holiday?

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

Wth. Thats so stupid. Why do they want to single out Christmas as the sign at the moment. Happy Holidays is so everyone, not only the people who celebrate Christmas will be wished a happy time with family. That is so stupid.

[Stephire]

Oi vey.
This is ghey.
I'm tired of the whole "political correctness".
My choir group got in trouble for saying Merry Christmas at the end of our concert.
If you're not christian then don't listen when I say Merry Christmas.
Go on with your day and deal with it. :p
But anyway, I do like the sound of "Happy Holidays" more. (:

[emazing]

Ehhck, that's pretty pointless, honestly. Who cares if Wal-Mart uses 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas'?
Like the shopper said - you come to Wal-Mart to get your stuff and go home, not listen to a bunch of protestors arguing about something that's not worth bringing up.
-
&I'm religious, btw. xD

[Heathasm]

thats how they are down here, too. even doctors and shit are always like "just pray that there may be nothing wrong with your back and god will perform the miracle" and shiz like that. people need to learn about being politically correct and more understanding/accepting of other people's beliefs

[KissMe2408]

I hate this whole fight or whatever. It is incredibly stupid.
But I do think it's stupid you have to say "happy holidays" now,
but i don't think i'd go as far as what they were doing in the article.

Otterstad of the Church of the Divide donned a Santa Claus costume and greeted shoppers with the message: Don't forget about the meaning of Christmas

.

^oh yah that really shows the true meaning. santa claus.

[*stephinika*]

^^
i agree about the santa claus bit.
but these people are ridiculous. just get over it already. there are other holidays around this time other than christmas, so it does include other things since there are other celebrations...sheesh.

[Tribal J_Rome]

people are idiots. dec. 25 isn't called HOLIDAY. nobody celebrates HOLIDAY or says merry holiday, IT'S CHRISTMAS DAMNIT! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[misoshiru]

that's ridiculous. actually, christmas is no longer exactly a holiday to remember jesus' birth, but just to celebrate opening presents and food. this really isn't a big deal. it's supposed to be "separation of church and state" so i think that these religious protestors should just forget it already. oh they're protesting because of "political correctness" more like advertising God to everyone. it's these kinds of things which made me dislike protestant/catholic groups.

[-lana]

what is the big deal with "happy holidays"? not everyone celebrates christmas, have these people not heard of kwanzaa or hanukkah? "happy holidays" just covers all the bases.

i agree.

[Rachel]

Oi vey.
This is ghey.
I'm tired of the whole "political correctness".
My choir group got in trouble for saying Merry Christmas at the end of our concert.
If you're not christian then don't listen when I say Merry Christmas.
Go on with your day and deal with it. :p

1. Oi vey is a jewish thing. Tis funny that you are saying don't listen when you say Merry Christmas, yet you use jewish sayings. Weeeird.
2. Political Correctness or just being respectful of all other religions?
3. You go on with YOUR day when I say Happy Holidays.

Seriously, what the hell is so wrong with saying Happy Holidays. It shows respect for all the other cultures and religions out there. Christianity is not the only damn religion in the country so stop acting like it! Besides, the true meaning of Christmas is lost, it is especially obvious in this stupid protest.

[*xcaitlinx*]

Another perfect example of ignorant Christians.

[sharpandcuddly]

I think it's funny. Everyone is protesting about them not saying happy holidays, yet they allow god to be in the pledge of allegiance.
I mean, there are bigger battles to fight.

HOW ABOUT WE ALL JUST SAY..
HAPPY CHRISMAHANUKWANZAKAH TO YOU? :D

[Stephire]

1. Oi vey is a jewish thing. Tis funny that you are saying don't listen when you say Merry Christmas, yet you use jewish sayings. Weeeird.
2. Political Correctness or just being respectful of all other religions?
3. You go on with YOUR day when I say Happy Holidays.

Seriously, what the hell is so wrong with saying Happy Holidays. It shows respect for all the other cultures and religions out there. Christianity is not the only damn religion in the country so stop acting like it! Besides, the true meaning of Christmas is lost, it is especially obvious in this stupid protest.

1.I do go on with my day. I just said happy holidays sounded better.
2.Oy Vey is a yiddish expression, talk about disrespectful. Not all jewish people speak yiddish. Oooh and, Jesus was a jew.
3.The TRUE meaning of Christmas is Jesus being born. Get over it.
4.It really doesn't show respect; HOLIDAY IS AN EXTRACT FROM HOLY DAY.
5.Christianity is by far the most dominant religion. :p

Step down from your soap box.

[boozLe]

ridiculous.
the only reason wal-mart uses "happy holidays" in the first place is so that people who do NOT celebrate christmas aren't offended.

religion.
whatever.

[klumzy]

these retards need to read the politically correct version of little red riding hood...

[*jooleeah*]

I heard about this on the news. The whole thing is stupid.

[*mzkandi*]

Happy Holidays encompasses everyone and not just a special group of people. Grrrrr....silly people, lets all throw snow balls at them.

[steezahh]

thats boooottyy. hes stupid

[heyyfrankie]

okay..wow. more mother f**king christians pissing me off. that is re-goddamn-diculous! ugh..it just makes me so mad. the christians want EVERYTHING to be about THEM without thinking about others. what about those people who celebrate Hannukah or Kwanza?

ugh.

"It is insulting that Wal-Mart has chosen to ignore the reason for the season," Otterstad said. "Taking the word 'Christmas' out of the holiday implies there's something sinful about it. ... This is a part of our culture."

SHUT THE f**k UP!

[mouse_3k]

I think they are wasting their time. how pointless is that? they should just get the hell ova it

[Teesa]

Happy Holidays encompasses everyone and not just a special group of people. Grrrrr....silly people, lets all throw snow balls at them.

Haha agreed :P

There's nothing wrong with saying Happy Holidays. My mom, who works at Foleys, got yelled at by a customer for saying Happy Holidays to her. I was so pissed.

[sadolakced acid]

it's amazing how vocal the misinformed can be.

christmas is no more a christian holiday than jesus was a christian.

[*mona lisa*]

5. Christianity is by far the most dominant religion. :p

That seriously has no meaning whatsoever.
-----------
This is all just silly. I wish I worked as a clerk so I can b!tch at the people who get angry because I say 'Happy Holidays' to them.

[*digital.fragrance*]

I wish people would just say, "merry christmas" - it's an official holiday anyway. It's not like Dec. 25th is marked down in calendars as "Holiday."

Also, I think Christians need to realize that "Xmas" isn't bad. The "x" is from the greek letter that looks like an "x." The letter means ichythus (sp?), which means fish (you know that the fish symbol means Christian), and is often used as an abbreiviation for the word "Christian." My Bible teacher often used that letter on the marker board, and we about died because we thought it was wrong... then he told us what it really meant.

[Mulder]

ok, i have a question.

how is it being disrespectful to christians to say "happy holidays"? holidays encompass christmas, as well as kwanzaa and hannukah. in a country where we have freedom of religion, it would make sense to make it clear that there is no "set" religion.

[*digital.fragrance*]

It's not - it's just the push to get rid of "christ" that is disrespectful.

[Mulder]

It's not - it's just the push to get rid of "christ" that is disrespectful.

how is saying "happy holidays" getting rid of christ?

christmas = one day. one day.

the season is not christmas.

the month of december is not christmas

the holidays, therefore, are not exclusively christian.

can any non-jews tell me the story of hannukah.

and yet everyone knows what christmas is.

thats disrespectful.

[Spirited Away]

3.The TRUE meaning of Christmas is Jesus being born. Get over it.
4.It really doesn't show respect; HOLIDAY IS AN EXTRACT FROM HOLY DAY.
5.Christianity is by far the most dominant religion. :p

Step down from your soap box.

3. So the meaning of Christmas is the birth of Christ, YAYAYAYAY, however, December 25th isn't Christ's birthday.
4. Respect works both ways. Christians aren't the only ones with holy days, you see, the Pagans celebrated Yule before Christians celebrated Christmas on that same day. It would be disrespectful to accept a younger religion's celebration as the only thing holy on Dec. 25th.
5. Christianity may be the most dominant religion, but the combined number of non-Christians would be dominant group.

[sadolakced acid]

jesus liked to get chitty chitty with the bang bang with men.

if you have a problem with what i just said then you can just not read it, right?

[*digital.fragrance*]

how is saying "happy holidays" getting rid of christ?

christmas = one day. one day.

the season is not christmas.

the month of december is not christmas

the holidays, therefore, are not exclusively christian.

can any non-jews tell me the story of hannukah.

and yet everyone knows what christmas is.

thats disrespectful.

They used to say "Merry Christmas" - until someone said that was religious. They ought to say Happy Hannukah too - but they aren't allowed to say that either - so I suppose that it is disrespectful to both groups - not that fact that they aren't saying "Merry whatever" but the reason behind it.

3. So the meaning of Christmas is the birth of Christ, YAYAYAYAY, however, December 25th isn't Christ's birthday.
4. Respect works both ways. Christians aren't the only ones with holy days, you see, the Pagans celebrated Yule before Christians celebrated Christmas on that same day. It would be disrespectful to accept a younger religion's celebration as the only thing holy on Dec. 25th.
5. Christianity may be the most dominant religion, but the combined number of non-Christians would be dominant group.

3. No one is quite sure when His birthday was - therefore we choose to celebrate it on Dec. 25th.
4. Then everyone needs to change the actual name of the holiday. The push to remove anything Christian is limiting our freedom - store empolyees ought to have the right to say "Merry Christmas."
5. Who cares about dominance. Every people group ought to have a voice - ought to have the right to say "Merry Christmas" at their jobs.

[Mulder]

jesus liked to get chitty chitty with the bang bang with men.

if you have a problem with what i just said then you can just not read it, right?

i love you

[*mona lisa*]

4.  Then everyone needs to change the actual name of the holiday.  The push to remove anything Christian is limiting our freedom - store empolyees ought to have the right to say "Merry Christmas."
5.  Who cares about dominance.  Every people group ought to have a voice - ought to have the right to say "Merry Christmas" at their jobs.

4. That, my friend, does not make sense. A single person did not come up with the name for this "holiday". Employees DO have the right to say Merry Christmas, but there is no reason why a Christian or any customer should be angry about Happy Holidays being said to them. No one is trying to remove any Christian meaning of any Christian holiday. Is it wrong to take into account the other holidays that take place around the same time, which happens to be celebrated by people from other cultures?

5. "Who cares about dominance"? Why did you say that Christianity is the dominant religion in the first place?

[*digital.fragrance*]

4. That, my friend, does not make sense. A single person did not come up with the name for this "holiday". Employees DO have the right to say Merry Christmas, but there is no reason why a Christian or any customer should be angry about Happy Holidays being said to them.
5. "Who cares about dominance"? Why did you say that Christianity is the dominant religion in the first place?

4. They shouldn't, but the reason behind it (they removed "Merry Christmas") should. The holiday called "christmas" is a much cultural as religious. There is no reason to remove it, but they do anyway.
5. I didn't - someone else in this thread did. I was just responding to other points made.

[Saeglopur]

I've always put it this way...

I'm Christian but not Christian to the point of recklessness.

[*mona lisa*]

4.  They shouldn't, but the reason behind it (they removed "Merry Christmas") should.  The holiday called "christmas" is a much cultural as religious.  There is no reason to remove it, but they do anyway.
5.  I didn't - someone else in this thread did.  I was just responding to other points made.

4. And there is no reason why Happy Holidays shouldn't be used. I'm not Jewish, but I'm pretty sure Hanukkah is both a religious and cultural holiday as well.
5. Oh, sorry. I thought you were the same person. Very sorry.

Anyway, this can be continued in the actual debate topic. :)

[Mulder]

4. And there is no reason why Happy Holidays shouldn't be used. I'm not Jewish, but I'm pretty sure Hanukkah is both a religious and cultural holiday as well.
5. Oh, sorry. I thought you were the same person. Very sorry.

Anyway, this can be continued in the actual debate topic. :)

oh phew! i started that topic because i thought people were starting to debate in here...

[*StanleyThePanda*]

re-goddamn-diculous!

[offtopic] thats from Anchorman! hahaha his arm gets ripped off by the bear.....[/offtopic]

I've always put it this way...

I'm Christian but not Christian to the point of recklessness.

Amen!

This is how I see it, Most stores such as, Target, Kohl's and a few others arent allowed to say "Merry Christmas", I think thats stupid. People should be allowed to say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" or which ever they prefer.
But I also think it is stupid that people flip like that and protest.

[Spirited Away]

They used to say "Merry Christmas" - until someone said that was religious.  They ought to say Happy Hannukah too - but they aren't allowed to say that either - so I suppose that it is disrespectful to both groups - not that fact that they aren't saying "Merry whatever"  but the reason behind it.
3.  No one is quite sure when His birthday was - therefore we choose to celebrate it on Dec. 25th.
4.  Then everyone needs to change the actual name of the holiday.  The push to remove anything Christian is limiting our freedom - store empolyees ought to have the right to say "Merry Christmas."
5.  Who cares about dominance.  Every people group ought to have a voice - ought to have the right to say "Merry Christmas" at their jobs.

Actually, they used to have a choice in saying Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays until some Christians thought it was un-Christian to say Happy Holidays. The president recently got dogged by fellow Christians for sending Happy Holidays cards.

3) Actually, it is quite certain and agreed by all religious institutions that Christ was not born on December 25th. The date is used for the convenience of conversion. That much is clear and undebatable. Christians didn't choose to celebrate on December 25th out of the blue and to claim that it's wrong to say Happy Holidays when Christians took over the holidays from Pagan traditions is RIDICULOUSLY hyppocritcal.
4) The said term isn't copyrighted. If Christians want the word to be holiday specific and not used freely by non-Christians or for commercial means, get it copyrighted or turn it into a trademark. It's NOT only non-Christians that's doing the limiting, haven't you heard that there are Christian lead movements to kick Happy Holidays out? The reason to remove Merry Christmas is simply CHOICE. If I hire you to work for me and do not like the fact that you can't say Merry Christmas, you have the CHOICE to quit.
5) Stephir did and I answered within context. Why don't you ask him/her what's that got to do with anything?

[*mona lisa*]

Fae...

Hmm... I should Google this and see what sort of results I get.

[Stephire]

5) Stephir did and I answered within context. Why don't you ask him/her what's that got to do with anything?

We live in a free enterprise nation where dominance rules.
Hence voting.
That's why it was brought up.
I'm a chick...:S
Anyway this all boils down to the AGE OLD question, Freedom or equality;;Free Enterprise or Communism?
I want the freedom to say Merry Christmas, and I want others to have the freedom to be able to say Happy Hannukkah or Merry Kwanza.
I'm not going to say "Happy Holidays" just to make other people happy.

[Spirited Away]

Fae...
Hmm... I should Google this and see what sort of results I get.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10355980/
Cracks me up that this is a religious free country, but many petty jealousies conveniently put a cap on that which the US Constitution so clearly states. There are fanatics, like a Mr. Wildmon, who would be miffed that the President helped Muslims celebrate Ramadan and wish his friends and family a "Happy Holiday Season". It seems this man is unreasonably jealous that Muslims have a place in the White House. And while Rev Jerry Falwell may believe that this is a nation "under God", not every citizen—with the same rights to liberty as he, believes so. It is discriminating, demeaningly so when he tries to pass it off as a fact. However, the one truth that we must all be subjected to, as it is HISTORY and the LAW, is the United States of America was founded on the basis of religious freedom, not the freedom to worship God alone.

The MSNBC link was an interesting read, but it expired. You can google on Bush and Happy Holiday cards and something should pop up.

Edit> here is the article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5120601900.html

We live in a free enterprise nation where dominance rules.
Hence voting.
That's why it was brought up.
I'm a chick...:S
Anyway this all boils down to the AGE OLD question, Freedom or equality;;Free Enterprise or Communism?
I want the freedom to say Merry Christmas, and I want others to have the freedom to be able to say Happy Hannukkah or Merry Kwanza.
I'm not going to say "Happy Holidays" just to make other people happy.

So it makes sense then to consider that free enterprise should allow Happy Holidays to be used since it encompasses a respect for all religions, thus giving a competitive advantage since all target markets can relate to "holidays" and not something religion specific like "Christmas".
You have the right to say Merry Christmas just as everyone else has the right to say Happy Holidays. Again, if you work for a company that CHOOSES not to allow employees to say Merry Christmas, quit and find one that will.

[Stephire]

You have the right to say Merry Christmas just as everyone else has the right to say Happy Holidays. Again, if you work for a company that CHOOSES not to allow employees to say Merry Christmas, quit and find one that will.

Not really. My whole choir group(choir is also my second hour) got bitched at by pinchy liberals in the park for saying Merry Christmas at the end of our concert. Pfft. I can't quit school. It was a christmas concert and we got yelled at, them threatening "sewing" the teachers for not teaching us "right". WTF@That.

[Spirited Away]

Not really. My whole choir group(choir is also my second hour) got bitched at by pinchy liberals in the park for saying Merry Christmas at the end of our concert. Pfft. I can't quit school.

School didn't disallow you to say Merry Christmas (no need to quit), neither did those "pinchy liberals". Just as you have the right to say Merry Christmas, people have the right to complain. Christians are doing just that about Happy Holidays.

[Stephire]

School didn't disallow you to say Merry Christmas (no need to quit), neither did those "pinchy liberals". Just as you have the right to say Merry Christmas, people have the right to complain. Christians are doing just that about Happy Holidays.

I know, I'm not disagreeing.

[*digital.fragrance*]

3) Actually, it is quite certain and agreed by all religious institutions that Christ was not born on December 25th. The date is used for the convenience of conversion. That much is clear and undebatable. Christians didn't choose to celebrate on December 25th out of the blue and to claim that it's wrong to say Happy Holidays when Christians took over the holidays from Pagan traditions is RIDICULOUSLY hyppocritcal.
4) The said term isn't copyrighted. If Christians want the word to be holiday specific and not used freely by non-Christians or for commercial means, get it copyrighted or turn it into a trademark. It's NOT only non-Christians that's doing the limiting, haven't you heard that there are Christian lead movements to kick Happy Holidays out? The reason to remove Merry Christmas is simply CHOICE. If I hire you to work for me and do not like the fact that you can't say Merry Christmas, you have the CHOICE to quit.

3. I know - they decided they needed to celebrate something on the same day. And we're not saying it's wrong to say "happy holidays." We just hate the fact that they are removing "CHRIST" out of a nationally celebrated holiday because they say it's "Christian" when it really isn't anymore.
4. I know it's not copyrighted. We don't want it to be holiday specific - we just wnat people to have the right to say it if they want to (in the context of employees). Some people really don't have the choice to quit. Many people haev different financial situations, and jobs shouldn't dictate what people have a right to say and not to say. They can't limit our freedom of speech.

[Spirited Away]

3.  I know - they decided they needed to celebrate something on the same day.  And we're not saying it's wrong to say "happy holidays."  We just hate the fact that they are removing "CHRIST" out of a nationally celebrated holiday because they say it's "Christian" when it really isn't anymore.
4.  I know it's not copyrighted.  We don't want it to be holiday specific - we just wnat people to have the right to say it if they want to (in the context of employees).  Some people really don't have the choice to quit.  Many people haev different financial situations, and jobs shouldn't dictate what people have a right to say and not to say.  They can't limit our freedom of speech.

3) Christmas is still very much Christian if it is meant to be celebrated for Christian purposes. "Christ" is removed by individual choice, just like it's individual choice to not remove "Christ" out of Christmas. That is the freedom promised by our government; the Christian God was also said to have given us free will. And just because something is celebrated nationally doesn't mean we all celebrate it for the same reason. Is your hatred, yours and other Christians, justified?

4) Um, no one is going to force anyone to continue working for him/her without violating some kind labor law. If it's financial reasons that a person would stay at a work environment that he/she doesn't like, then it's still by CHOICE that the person chose to stay. So yes, EVERYONE REALLY DOES have the CHOICE to quit. The law supports it; no one forbids it. If you really think that employers should not have such rights, what's the point of owning your own business if you cannot tell your employees what to do within the legal limits? Which company is forbidding their employees to say Merry Christmas? I'd like to know. As I've said, even the President was attacked by Christians when he sent "Happy Holidays" cards. Why don't Christians take a look at who's actually doing the limiting of freedom of speech on a larger scale? I haven't seen much protest for Merry Christmas, yet I've seen plenty of protest of Happy Holidays.

[Retrogressive]

It's not political corectness, it's just not excluding someone else because of their religion. I didn't celebrate Christmas until I was 10 so I understand.

But Wal*Mart will do anything to boost it's sales.

[vash1530]

wow some ppl are so stupid. r u really gonna waste ur time boycotting "HAPPY HOLIDAYS" signs. I celebrate x-mas (not christmas) but for them to exclude the other religous holidays would be even worse for the stores. I really don't understand these people at all.

[amm0439]

Happy Holidays encompasses everyone and not just a special group of people. Grrrrr....silly people, lets all throw snow balls at them.

AGREED!!!

who cares what religion is more dominant we're supposed to cover all religions so holidays pretty much covers it

[Rachel]

1.I do go on with my day. I just said happy holidays sounded better.
2.Oy Vey is a yiddish expression, talk about disrespectful. Not all jewish people speak yiddish. Oooh and, Jesus was a jew.
3.The TRUE meaning of Christmas is Jesus being born. Get over it.
4.It really doesn't show respect; HOLIDAY IS AN EXTRACT FROM HOLY DAY.
5.Christianity is by far the most dominant religion. :p

Step down from your soap box.

1. I am f**king Jewish idiot. I say it is a Jewish saying because, well, every damn Jew I know says Oy Vey. Also, it is called saracsm, get the f**k used to it.
2. I know Jesus was Jewish, good for him. That doesn't mean people should protest saying "Happy Holidays".
3. People don't love Christmas because it is the day Jesus was born, they celebrate it for the damn presents. I don't need to get over anything. Good for your religion.
4. HOLY DAY=A LOT OF DIFFERENT HOLIDAYS. HANNUKAH, KWANZA, AND OMG OMG OMG OMG CHRISTMAS. Holy shit idiot.
5. Why the hell does it matter that Christianity is the most dominant? It still isn't the only one.

Looks like you should step off your damn box woman.

[/endcaringaboutstupididiotswhotakethingstotheextremewithoutknowinganything.]

[Jorge]

A'men.

Putting Christ back in Christmas.

[Stephire]

1. I am f**king Jewish idiot. I say it is a Jewish saying because, well, every damn Jew I know says Oy Vey. Also, it is called saracsm, get the f**k used to it.
2. I know Jesus was Jewish, good for him. That doesn't mean people should protest saying "Happy Holidays".
3. People don't love Christmas because it is the day Jesus was born, they celebrate it for the damn presents. I don't need to get over anything. Good for your religion.
4. HOLY DAY=A LOT OF DIFFERENT HOLIDAYS. HANNUKAH, KWANZA, AND OMG OMG OMG OMG CHRISTMAS. Holy shit idiot.
5. Why the hell does it matter that Christianity is the most dominant? It still isn't the only one.

Looks like you should step off your damn box woman.

[/endcaringaboutstupididiotswhotakethingstotheextremewithoutknowinganything.]

Woooow, and you called me an idiot? Read my other posts. Sarcasm over the internet is usually an excuse for stupidity. The word holiday CAME FROM the words holy day. I already said why it matters that Christian is the most dominant. You took things to the extreme with out knowing anything. I wasn't even protesting, I was stating something. I do not in any way agree with the crazy christians who are doing this. FFS. Saying "f**k" makes you look so HardXcore lyke JEAHHH!!!11tartarsauce!!1</nowthatwassarcasm>

[*digital.fragrance*]

3) Christmas is still very much Christian if it is meant to be celebrated for Christian purposes. "Christ" is removed by individual choice, just like it's individual choice to not remove "Christ" out of Christmas. That is the freedom promised by our government; the Christian God was also said to have given us free will. And just because something is celebrated nationally doesn't mean we all celebrate it for the same reason. Is your hatred, yours and other Christians, justified?

4) Um, no one is going to force anyone to continue working for him/her without violating some kind labor law. If it's financial reasons that a person would stay at a work environment that he/she doesn't like, then it's still by CHOICE that the person chose to stay. So yes, EVERYONE REALLY DOES have the CHOICE to quit. The law supports it; no one forbids it. If you really think that employers should not have such rights, what's the point of owning your own business if you cannot tell your employees what to do within the legal limits? Which company is forbidding their employees to say Merry Christmas? I'd like to know. As I've said, even the President was attacked by Christians when he sent "Happy Holidays" cards. Why don't Christians take a look at who's actually doing the limiting of freedom of speech on a larger scale? I haven't seen much protest for Merry Christmas, yet I've seen plenty of protest of Happy Holidays.

3. I know - but many don't celebrate it for the same reasons. Culture celebrates it for Santa Clause and presents, etc... and Christians celebrate Christ's birth. I don't have any hatred, and I honestly don't know where you read that. Us Christians ( at least most of us) don't have any hatred - we are just extremely disappointed in this turn of events. Look at it this way - just recently in Indiana, the word "Jesus" is not supposed to be used in Congress' prayers. And then there's the whole "no God in education" issue. The nation is pushing us out completely. To be honest, it's getting quite frustrating.

For example, this is what is happening:

]After a series of reports by WND, however, Wal-Mart officials satisfied demands by the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, which had called for a national boycott after accusing the retail giant of discriminating against Christmas while promoting other seasonal holidays by name, such as Kwanzaa and Hanukkah.

Christmas is rejected and not any other holidays.

4. I suppose so, but imagine a single mother parenting two kids and that is her ONLY income (and there is no hope of getting another job), she doesn't have much of a choice. About people not being allowed to say "Merry Christmas", one of our local radio personalities called Target and said "Merry Christmas" and hte operator responded "Happy Holidays"... and it went back and forth like that, and eventually, the woman said, "Sir, what can I help you with?" and he responded, "I just hoped that in wishing you a 'Merry Christmas' that I would get one in response." ..and she said, "Sir, that's not my job."

About the protesting, that is in response to the non-use of "Merry Christmas." I still don't understand why "Merry Christmas" was removed when there wasn't any protesting about it. Christmas is a national, cultural, and religious holiday. There is no excuse to ban it.

My point is - Removing "Merry Christmas" takes away our freedom of expression. Using Happy Holidays isn't bad, it's just the act of taking away Merry Christmas that is frustrating.

[*xcaitlinx*]

Woooow, and you called me an idiot? Read my other posts. Sarcasm over the internet is usually an excuse for stupidity. The word holiday CAME FROM the words holy day. I already said why it matters that Christian is the most dominant. You took things to the extreme with out knowing anything. I wasn't even protesting, I was stating something. I do not in any way agree with the crazy christians who are doing this. FFS. Saying "f**k" makes you look so HardXcore lyke JEAHHH!!!11tartarsauce!!1</nowthatwassarcasm>

you're funny. ignorant, but funny.

[Spirited Away]

3. I know - but many don't celebrate it for the same reasons. Culture celebrates it for Santa Clause and presents, etc... and Christians celebrate Christ's birth. I don't have any hatred, and I honestly don't know where you read that. Us Christians ( at least most of us) don't have any hatred - we are just extremely disappointed in this turn of events. Look at it this way - just recently in Indiana, the word "Jesus" is not supposed to be used in Congress' prayers. And then there's the whole "no God in education" issue. The nation is pushing us out completely. To be honest, it's getting quite frustrating.

I got "hate" from this:

3.  I know - they decided they needed to celebrate something on the same day....
We just hate the fact that they are removing "CHRIST" out of a nationally celebrated holiday because they say it's "Christian" when it really isn't anymore.

Who "decided" to celebrate on the same day? Lets clear this up a bit. CHRISTIANS decided to CONVERT Pagans and what better way to do it than to PRETEND that Christ's birth is on December 25th, which is Yule, a celebration that went on CENTURIES BEFORE CHRIST.

Why are you disappointed in something that was never meant to be in the first place? Remember that our Founding Fathers insisted on Seperation of Church and State, and the State provides public education. Do you see where I'm going with this? By the way, schools can teach about religion, just not preach for them. God is still introduced, and if students are interested they have the choice to learn more about God on their own. If students are forced to listen to a teacher preach about God, where's choice in that? Where's freedom?

For example, this is what is happening:

QUOTE([url=http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47634)
]After a series of reports by WND, however, Wal-Mart officials satisfied demands by the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, which had called for a national boycott after accusing the retail giant of discriminating against Christmas while promoting other seasonal holidays by name, such as Kwanzaa and Hanukkah.
Christmas is rejected and not any other holidays.

Discriminating against Christmas? HOW? For saying HAPPY HOLIDAYS is DISCRIMINATING CHRISTMAS? And saying Merry Christmas isn't discriminating other religions?!?! People are so full of themselves and does logic not exist? So if you come to my house and I wish you Happy Holidays, I'd be discriminating Christmas even though I don't celebrate it? Oh, that must means Hallmark is discriminating Christmas because it prints Happy Holidays cards. Walmart must also be discriminating against Atheists and Agnostics, too, because they don't wish us a merry or happy or not happy merry anything!

4. I suppose so, but imagine a single mother parenting two kids and that is her ONLY income (and there is no hope of getting another job), she doesn't have much of a choice. About people not being allowed to say "Merry Christmas", one of our local radio personalities called Target and said "Merry Christmas" and hte operator responded "Happy Holidays"... and it went back and forth like that, and eventually, the woman said, "Sir, what can I help you with?" and he responded, "I just hoped that in wishing you a 'Merry Christmas' that I would get one in response." ..and she said, "Sir, that's not my job."

She doesn't have a choice? No one is going to gut her if she step up to her supervisor and say I quit because you do not allow me to say merry Christmas. Even if her situation is dire, she STILL HAS CHOICE. She can stay, suck it up and she'll be able to feed her kids, or she can leave and be in trouble for a while. See the two choices, not much, I know, but there they are.

I would have said more nasty things to the man had he put me in that situation. No one's going to force me to say Merry Christmas just as I'm not going to force anyone else to say Happy Holidays. If my employer, the YMCA, requires that we greet with Merry Christmas, I'd have choice to suck it up and do, or leave, or continue on with my Happy Holidays until they fire me. And I would be in a dire situation being a commuting full time student and all. Simple.

About the protesting, that is in response to the non-use of "Merry Christmas." I still don't understand why "Merry Christmas" was removed when there wasn't any protesting about it. Christmas is a national, cultural, and religious holiday. There is no excuse to ban it.

Because it's a choice to target ALL groups of people, not just Christians and since Holidays include Christmas, it makes sense to use it. Also, the only day that Walmart observes is Christmas. HOLIDAYS isn't religion specific. It can apply to Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Agnostics, Pagans, and of course Christians... etc. That isn't discriminating. The excuse not to use it is simply giving respect to all religions, not just one.

My point is - Removing "Merry Christmas" takes away our freedom of expression. Using Happy Holidays isn't bad, it's just the act of taking away Merry Christmas that is frustrating.

But it isn't taken away, it exists in HAPPY HOLIDAYS.

[Stephire]

you're funny. ignorant, but funny.

You're not funny.
Anyway, I'm done with this thread. :p >reason & also because people are having an intelligent argument that I'd rather not interrupt.
No offense to actual mentally disabled people.

[*digital.fragrance*]

Who "decided" to celebrate on the same day? Lets clear this up a bit. CHRISTIANS decided to CONVERT Pagans and what better way to do it than to PRETEND that Christ's birth is on December 25th, which is Yule, a celebration that went on CENTURIES BEFORE CHRIST.

Why are you disappointed in something that was never meant to be in the first place? Remember that our Founding Fathers insisted on Seperation of Church and State, and the State provides public education. Do you see where I'm going with this? By the way, schools can teach about religion, just not preach for them. God is still introduced, and if students are interested they have the choice to learn more about God on their own. If students are forced to listen to a teacher preach about God, where's choice in that? Where's freedom?

Discriminating against Christmas? HOW? For saying HAPPY HOLIDAYS is DISCRIMINATING CHRISTMAS? And saying Merry Christmas isn't discriminating other religions?!?! People are so full of themselves and does logic not exist? So if you come to my house and I wish you Happy Holidays, I'd be discriminating Christmas even though I don't celebrate it? Oh, that must means Hallmark is discriminating Christmas because it prints Happy Holidays cards. Walmart must also be discriminating against Atheists and Agnostics, too, because they don't wish us a merry or happy or not happy merry anything!

She doesn't have a choice? No one is going to gut her if she step up to her supervisor and say I quit because you do not allow me to say merry Christmas. Even if her situation is dire, she STILL HAS CHOICE. She can stay, suck it up and she'll be able to feed her kids, or she can leave and be in trouble for a while. See the two choices, not much, I know, but there they are.

I would have said more nasty things to the man had he put me in that situation. No one's going to force me to say Merry Christmas just as I'm not going to force anyone else to say Happy Holidays. If my employer, the YMCA, requires that we greet with Merry Christmas, I'd have choice to suck it up and do, or leave, or continue on with my Happy Holidays until they fire me. And I would be in a dire situation being a commuting full time student and all. Simple.
Because it's a choice to target ALL groups of people, not just Christians and since Holidays include Christmas, it makes sense to use it. Also, the only day that Walmart observes is Christmas. HOLIDAYS isn't religion specific. It can apply to Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Agnostics, Pagans, and of course Christians... etc. That isn't discriminating. The excuse not to use it is simply giving respect to all religions, not just one.

But it isn't taken away, it exists in HAPPY HOLIDAYS.

Okay, I apoligize for using a strong word - I didn't intend it to mean hatred. My fault.

Separation of church and state was intended to protect our future by making a national church impossible (like that of the Anglican Church of England). The founding fathers were protecting America from becoming a government like England in the 1790's. That's why so many people came here in the first place - for religious freedom. Public schools, at least where I'm from, can't talk about God. They can get in serious trouble if they do, and then they teach evolution like it's the only way (this is where Intelligent Design comes in, but not in this topic). Can you at least see where we are coming from? After 2 + centuries of complete freedom, the nation is shoving us out (figuratively, of course).

Is it bad to celebrate something on the same day? It's impossible to set a date on when Christ was born (with the calender's and translations being so different) - yet Christ was born, and we might as well celebrate sometime.

Did I say somone was discriminating by saying Happy Holidays? I have nothing against "Happy Holidays" itself. No - Walmart forbid their employees to say Merry Christmas, while they allowed them to say Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanza, and Happy Holidays. Excluding "Merry Christmas" and nothing else is discrimination.

About the woman and her choice - she should be protected from a situation like that... taking away her freedom is taking advantage of a person in that situation.

The man wasn't forcing the operator from Target - he just found out what he wanted, that Target wasn't allowing their employees to say "Merry Christmas."

I have nothing against saying "Happy Holidays." It's just fact that they are doing it instead of Christmas (like they used to) is bothering me. They can say Happy Hannukah, or Happy Kwanza..... just not Merry Christmas.

Not allowing employees to say "Merry Christmas" is taking away some freedom, no matter how much the term "Happy Holidays" encompasses. It's still something they can't say because it's not "politically correct."

[Spirited Away]

Okay, I apoligize for using a strong word - I didn't intend it to mean hatred.  My fault.

Separation of church and state was intended to protect our future by making a national church impossible (like that of the Anglican Church of England).  The founding fathers were protecting America from becoming a government like England in the 1790's.  That's why so many people came here in the first place - for religious freedom.  Public schools, at least where I'm from, can't talk about God.  They can get in serious trouble if they do, and then they teach evolution like it's the only way (this is where Intelligent Design comes in, but not in this topic).  Can you at least see where we are coming from?  After 2 + centuries of complete freedom, the nation is shoving us out (figuratively, of course).

Yes yes, no need for a history lesson. I've said the same things in the debate forum too many times already. And though I understand you may not have mean "hate" in that context, you can't say the same for other Christians. I know for certain that there are Christians who truly hate it, or else why would they go through the trouble of protesting?

No, I don't see where Christians get the idea that it's okay to be angry at folks who say Happy Holidays when they have the same freedom to say Merry Christmas whenever they want to. I would like to know which US shools forbid students to pray to God or to talk about God without evangelizing. I would agree with you that your freedom is threaten if that is the case, however, I've never heard of any school that forbid just talking about God. Maybe you could tell me since I haven't read about it. After two centuries of religious freedom, Americans can finally SHARE the Winter Holidays and not just celebrate for the sole reason of Christ's supposed birthday.

Is it bad to celebrate something on the same day?  It's impossible to set a date on when Christ was born (with the calender's and translations being so different) - yet Christ was born, and we might as well celebrate sometime.

I've already mentioned this, though it's not possible to agree on a specific date, it is a fact accepted by all credible religious institution that Christ was not born on December 25th and that the reason December 25th was chosen was for the conversion of Pagans. Again, this cannot be refuted. Yes, it should be celebrated sometimes, but when the Church thought it'd be convenient to celebrate it on Decemeber 25th, they should have taken into consideration that not everyone will want to hold celebration in the name of Christ since not everyone is Christian. It's kind of like first come first serve. However, the first comer in this case was "shoved out" of the way by force ("figuratively, of course").

Did I say somone was discriminating by saying Happy Holidays?  I have nothing against "Happy Holidays" itself.  No - Walmart forbid their employees to say Merry Christmas, while they allowed them to say Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanza, and Happy Holidays.  Excluding "Merry Christmas" and nothing else is discrimination.

You didn't, but the SOURCE you provided did. Don't tell me you didn't read the source you gave. Here, I'll quote it again.

]After a series of reports by WND, however, Wal-Mart officials satisfied demands by the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, which had called for a national boycott after accusing the retail giant of discriminating against Christmas while promoting other seasonal holidays by name, such as Kwanzaa and Hanukkah.

About the woman and her choice - she should be protected from a situation like that... taking away her freedom is taking advantage of a person in that situation.

If you think the woman should be protected from that, the people at Walmart should be protected from angry "Merry Christmas" loving Christians, too. I mean, if she deserves more choices, then shouldn't Walmart, too?

The man wasn't forcing the operator from Target - he just found out what he wanted, that Target wasn't allowing their employees to say "Merry Christmas."

No, you said the lady said "it's not my job". It's another way of saying, I don't want to have to wish you a Merry Christmas. Have you, for a moment after hearing that guy on the radio, thought that maybe the lady isn't Christian and is adverse to saying Merry Christmas? No. Everyone assumes that she isn't allowed to say Merry Christmas. Even if that is the case, had she been a real Christian, she wouldn't have mind wishing the man a Merry Christmas. If she is terminated for that, she could sue and I'm sure the nice, Christmas-loving radio man would have paid for her lawyer expenses. This reminds of a story when I was a hostess at Pappadeaux Seafood Kitchen. A customer spilled his drink on the table and screamed at me to clean it up and I told him, you guessed it, "it's not my job, sir, but I'll get someone in a second". Hmm, I could never stand those uptight snobs.

I have nothing against saying "Happy Holidays."  It's just fact that they are doing it instead of Christmas (like they used to) is bothering me.  They can say Happy Hannukah, or Happy Kwanza..... just not Merry Christmas.

So they used to say Merry Christmas ALL THE TIME, maybe it's time for a new way to celebrate. A way that's inclusive, not exclusive.

Not allowing employees to say "Merry Christmas" is taking away some freedom, no matter how much the term "Happy Holidays" encompasses.  It's still something they can't say because it's not "politically correct."

That's true, but I've yet to read anything that says Walmart or any company that forbids its employees to say Merry Christmas. I've heard that Walmart encourages its employees to say Happy Holidays, but I've yet to hear anything about it completely forbiding employees from Merry Christmas. Where are you guys getting these news?

[Retrogressive]

^^ They are fighting for what they believe in. Although I may not agree with it, I find it admirable. So few people fight for what thy believe in these days.

[Spirited Away]

^^ They are fighting for what they believe in. Although I may not agree with it, I find it admirable. So few people fight for what thy believe in these days.

If everyone fights for what he/she believes in, we'd have chaos. When it's a logical, meaningful fight then sure, that's admirable, but as I've pointed out before, there's nothing logical about this.

[Retrogressive]

No it's absolutly narrow-minded and self-centered. I'm just saying, people seem to rarely care about things. I think that it's good they have passion for what they believe in, everyone should in my opinion.

[Spirited Away]

No it's absolutly narrow-minded and self-centered. I'm just saying, people seem to rarely care about things. I think that it's good they have passion for what they believe in, everyone should in my opinion.

Ah, you mean that kind of fighting. Well, I agree that having passion for what you believe in is good, however, twisted passion isn't. *Sigh*. Haha, I've read that they're calling this the "Christmas War". Self-centered is a good term.

[medic]

Exactly. Maybe people who don't celebrate Christmas should be protesting in all of the stores who use "Merry Christmas". Seriously, Wal-Mart is already crowded enough so who the hell gives a damn if they use Holidays rather than Christmas. Christmas = a holiday?

They want to make a huge statement, so they hit the largest retailer in the world. If they can get Wal-Mart to do it, they think they an get all the other retailers to do it.

[heyyfrankie]

should i move this to the debate forum now or later..?

[Retrogressive]

Ah, you mean that kind of fighting. Well, I agree that having passion for what you believe in is good, however, twisted passion isn't. *Sigh*. Haha, I've read that they're calling this the "Christmas War". Self-centered is a good term.

You know what irks me-- the fact that they are being complete morons when there are other things so much more dire to fight for. People in AMERICA are starving, won't get to celebrate christmas, have loved ones fighting in a senseless war or have lost someone in said war. That's what really pisses me off. Yes, I admire that they are standing up for what they "believe" in. I can't believe anyone has the nerve to call this the "Christmas War". My God, how pathetic can Americans get? Are we really going to be blinded by all of this bullshit and not see what really matters??

---woah, I missed the name change Fae!! +wave+ Remember me?

should i move this to the debate forum now or later..?

........

[klumzy]

okay..wow. more mother f**king christians pissing me off. that is re-goddamn-diculous! ugh..it just makes me so mad. the christians want EVERYTHING to be about THEM without thinking about others. what about those people who celebrate Hannukah or Kwanza?

not all christians are like that.. dont stereotype us with those weirdos

[Retrogressive]

not all christians are like that.. dont stereotype us with those weirdos

Yes, that was very stereotypical. Because of religious zelots like these, Christians get a bad name.

[sadolakced acid]

A'men.

Putting Christ back in Christmas.

christ was never in christmas, not more than i was in the bible.

[vash1530]

xmas ppl! we should all celebrate xmas like in the future as seen in futurama!!!! Then everyone would be happy!!! YAY!!!!!

[Retrogressive]

christ was never in christmas, not more than i was in the bible.

I'm sure Jesus wasn't even born around December.

[Spirited Away]

---woah, I missed the name change Fae!! +wave+ Remember me?

I do, actually. Though we've never really talked before, I've definitely seen you around the forum.

not all christians are like that.. dont stereotype us with those weirdos

That's true. And I'd have to bring this up again because it's so interesting to me, sorry for the repetition. President Bush got flamed by those "weirdos" for sending Happy Holidays cards.

[Retrogressive]

I do, actually. Though we've never really talked before, I've definitely seen you around the forum. 

I used to lurk in debate..

That's true. And I'd have to bring this up again because it's so interesting to me, sorry for the repetition. President Bush got flamed by those "weirdos" for sending Happy Holidays cards.

What weirdos specifically? Surely not the same ones that are involved with the Wal+Mart scandle.

[*digital.fragrance*]

Yes yes, no need for a history lesson. I've said the same things in the debate forum too many times already. And though I understand you may not have mean "hate" in that context, you can't say the same for other Christians. I know for certain that there are Christians who truly hate it, or else why would they go through the trouble of protesting?

And if you read my previous post, I said the "most" Christians do not hate this. They are extremely perplexed. Big difference. And I can speak for a lot - they are my friends, my fellow church members - my peers. I can't speak for all, but I can for some. We protest because we feel as if anything "Christian" is being taken out of everything - schools, government buildings, stores... heck, even nativity scenes have come under fire. If you don't want to see see those, just ignore them.

No, I don't see where Christians get the idea that it's okay to be angry at folks who say Happy Holidays when they have the same freedom to say Merry Christmas whenever they want to. I would like to know which US shools forbid students to pray to God or to talk about God without evangelizing. I would agree with you that your freedom is threaten if that is the case, however, I've never heard of any school that forbid just talking about God. Maybe you could tell me since I haven't read about it. After two centuries of religious freedom, Americans can finally SHARE the Winter Holidays and not just celebrate for the sole reason of Christ's supposed birthday.

Okay, schools forbid teachers from talking about God. My fault - no clarification.

That's true, but I've yet to read anything that says Walmart or any company that forbids its employees to say Merry Christmas. I've heard that Walmart encourages its employees to say Happy Holidays, but I've yet to hear anything about it completely forbiding employees from Merry Christmas. Where are you guys getting these news?

[

About discrimination - you misunderstood me - leaving out Merry Christmas and not other holidays is discrimination. Walmart did that - check my source.

No, I don't see where Christians get the idea that it's okay to be angry at folks who say Happy Holidays when they have the same freedom to say Merry Christmas whenever they want to.

I didn't say that - we are not angry at that. We are angry that people aren't allowed to say Merry Christmas - like that Target operator I mentoned before and WalMart employees.

No, you said the lady said "it's not my job". It's another way of saying, I don't want to have to wish you a Merry Christmas. Have you, for a moment after hearing that guy on the radio, thought that maybe the lady isn't Christian and is adverse to saying Merry Christmas? No. Everyone assumes that she isn't allowed to say Merry Christmas. Even if that is the case, had she been a real Christian, she wouldn't have mind wishing the man a Merry Christmas. If she is terminated for that, she could sue and I'm sure the nice, Christmas-loving radio man would have paid for her lawyer expenses.

Or it could be a better say to say, "I'm not allowed." In the context of hte radio discussion, trust me, it was obvious. I suppose it's just the way you can take things. The lady could have been a Christian and in that case, this chapter in the Bible explains it all - Romans 13. It tells us to submit to our authority.

I've already mentioned this, though it's not possible to agree on a specific date, it is a fact accepted by all credible religious institution that Christ was not born on December 25th and that the reason December 25th was chosen was for the conversion of Pagans. Again, this cannot be refuted. Yes, it should be celebrated sometimes, but when the Church thought it'd be convenient to celebrate it on Decemeber 25th, they should have taken into consideration that not everyone will want to hold celebration in the name of Christ since not everyone is Christian. It's kind of like first come first serve. However, the first comer in this case was "shoved out" of the way by force ("figuratively, of course").

Okay, so what's so bad about a religion doing what they believe in? For Christians, we are supposed to share God's love and tell them about how Jesus died on the cross for them. I guess Yule wasn't a good celebration because the World switched to Christmas. There was no "conspiracy" to get the world to
switch holidays.... how did we force them to get out of the way....?

If everyone fights for what he/she believes in, we'd have chaos. When it's a logical, meaningful fight then sure, that's admirable, but as I've pointed out before, there's nothing logical about this.

No it's absolutly narrow-minded and self-centered. I'm just saying, people seem to rarely care about things. I think that it's good they have passion for what they believe in, everyone should in my opinion.

So now I'm not logical... and I'm narrow-minded, self-centered. Man, you guys really now how to flame somebody. I'm sticking up for my beliefs - I'm not trying to make "christmas" the only holiday. I love "Happy Holidays," and it's a great inclusive term. I just wish people were permitted to say "Merry Christmas" at their jobs.

[EddieV]

America is a mixed nation. Christmas isn't the only Holiday around this season. There's also Kwanzaa and Hanuka, and don't forget New Years. Those Christians are forgeting that this time of the year there's many Holidays going on not just one that rules them all. All the Holidays are important to different cultures. If they're just going to say "Merry Christmas". How about the people that don't celebrate Christmas, but instead they celebrate Hanuka? What would they think? I pretty much just repeated everything that everyone said. But yeah, those Christians are being unfair.

[Spirited Away]

1) And if you read my previous post, I said the "most" Christians do not hate this.  They are extremely perplexed. Big difference.  And I can speak for a lot - they are my friends, my fellow church members - my peers.  I can't speak for all, but I can for some.  We protest because we feel as if anything "Christian" is being taken out of everything - schools, government buildings, stores... heck, even nativity scenes have come under fire.  If you don't want to see see those, just ignore them. 

2) Okay, schools forbid teachers from talking about God. My fault - no clarification. 


3) About discrimination - you misunderstood me - leaving out Merry Christmas and not other holidays is discrimination. Walmart did that - check my source.


4) I didn't say that - we are not angry at that.  We are angry that people aren't allowed to say Merry Christmas - like that Target operator I mentoned before and WalMart employees.
Or it could be a better say to say, "I'm not allowed."  In the context of hte radio discussion, trust me, it was obvious.  I suppose it's just the way you can take things.  The lady could have been a Christian and in that case, this chapter in the Bible explains it all - Romans 13.  It tells us to submit to our authority. 


5) Okay, so what's so bad about a religion doing what they believe in?  For Christians, we are supposed to share God's love and tell them about how Jesus died on the cross for them.  I guess Yule wasn't a good celebration because the World switched to Christmas.  There was no "conspiracy" to get the world to
switch holidays....  how did we force them to get out of the way....?


6) So know I'm not logical... and I'm narrow-minded, self-centered.  Man, you guys really now how to flame somebody.  I'm sticking up for my beliefs - I'm not trying to make "christmas" the only holiday.  I love "Happy Holidays," and it's a great inclusive term.  I just wish people were permitted to say "Merry Christmas" at their jobs.

1) You said most Christians do not hate this, yet you do not know most Christians. Someone mentioned that Christianity is the dominant religion in the world, do you know how many Christians that is? Your number of friends and family and fellow church goers does not tantamount to most Christians. You must also consider that there are people in the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, Reverends, American Family Association in Tupelo, Miss., and even people who writes books to protest the use of Happy Holidays. [source]
And in your logic, if these Christians don't want to see or say "Happy Holidays", just ignore it!

2)... no, you've misinterpreted the law. Teachers CAN talk about God just as they can talk about Buddha and/or Shiva. Going further than this would violate the establisment clause (seperation of Church and State). They can speak about religion because it's our history and culture. Students have the right to dig deeper if they are interested on their own.

3) But CHRISTMAS wasn't left out. Again, Happy Holidays is INCLUSIVE, not exclusive, thus there is no discrimination.

4) Again, have you thought about the possibility that she simply didn't want to say Merry Christmas? Though Romans 13 tells you to submit to your authority, it doesn't tell you to submit to authority at the price of God. Also Romans 13 says you should owe no man anything but love and that he who loves fulfilled the law. Thus, if she were Christian and loved in the contexted of this discussion, nothing would have stopped her from wishing evil-radio-man a Merry Christmas. She would have fulfilled a "higher" spiritual law.

5) Easy for the ones with Money and Power to say that people turned to them in the end because they didn't have enough to go on. You're saying that Yule wasn't good enough so people turned to Christianity, right? I'm guessing you're not at all familiar with the ways of conversion and the history of Christianity in Ancient Rome. Pagans, better known to Christians as heathens and witches, were *gasp* discriminated! Emperor Constantine FORCED pagans to be baptized and accept Christianity. Yea, right, according to you then, being forced is simply "switching" to Christanity. Right. Lets continue on though. These Pagans begin attend church after a while because to them, they're still worshiping idol-gods. While this is going on Church adopted PAGAN TRADITIONS of celebrating Yule—calling it Christmas, gift giving—calling it gift giving to baby Jesus, the mother-Goddess and the birth of her child0—callling it the nativity scenes, the evergreen tree that symbolizes immortality and fertility—calling it a Christmas tree. I assure you, any educated and true theologian or historian will tell you this history. You needn't hear this and believe me. And so, it looks more like Christians "switched" to paganism to appease the Pagan in order to convert them. What sly planning.

And not to mention how easy it could be to "switch" a pagan when they will believe anything clergymen say because they can't read and write latin.

So, how did Christians force them? How else do you think? Read up on history.

6) Again, would you tell me which company doesn't allow employees to say Merry Christmas? That radio man example is faulty. The lady never admited that she is not allowed to say Merry Christmas, therefore we can assume that she simply didn't want to.

[heyyfrankie]

not all christians are like that.. dont stereotype us with those weirdos

us..? i'm a christian..

and i think you may of gotten the wrong idea of my post or perhaps i just worded it wrong but i know that all christians aren't like that. but the ones that are, like the ones in the story, really piss me off.

i didn't mean to offend.

[klumzy]

us..? i'm a christian..

and i think you may of gotten the wrong idea of my post or perhaps i just worded it wrong but i know that all christians aren't like that. but the ones that are, like the ones in the story, really piss me off.

i didn't mean to offend.

no offense taken, guess i misunderstood what you were trying to say

and yes, the over-zealous christians piss me off too..

[dreamergirl]

This whole thing is a scheme my eztreme liberals to take Christ out of everything possible. My cousin is a teacher and she cant even say Merry Christmas or ask if someone has a "Christmas" tree because of this thing. Its sick, all of it. And just in case the liberal media doesnt know it Holiday means Holy Day. So HAHA.
Im a Christian, and I say Happy Holidays, the thing that really really ticks me off is when they make it illegal to say in schools: just like the Bible, the Ten Commandments, and prayer. To all you fellow Christians out there, Jesus is definately coming back very soon!!

[sadolakced acid]

if you read the thread, you can find out why you're wrong.

of course, it's not debate, so you're not required to read the thread... ehhh.

anyways. jesus has been back for a while.

i am jesus.

and you know what? there is no one in the world pure enough to save.

[dreamergirl]

Christians arnt trying to advertise God to people by wanting to keep Dec 25 --- Christmas, or to say Merry Christmas. Its not just Christians that say Merry Christmas, millions and millions of other people have said it and are saying it. And has far as " political correctness" goes its the liberals who started the whole thing, not Christians. And WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT A HOLIDAY HAS TO DO WITH """SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE""""??????? GOOD GOD this whole thing makes me mad. And to all you people who think " its no big deal " or " the Christians just need to forget it" IT IS A BIG DEAL. Why should anyone care if its called Christmas, ITS BEEN THAT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS!!!!!!

[*mona lisa*]

Christians arnt trying to advertise God to people by wanting to keep Dec 25 --- Christmas, or to say Merry Christmas. Its not just Christians that say Merry Christmas, millions and millions of other people have said it and are saying it. And has far as " political correctness" goes its the liberals who started the whole thing, not Christians. And WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT A HOLIDAY HAS TO DO WITH """SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE""""??????? GOOD GOD this whole thing makes me mad. And to all you people who think " its no big deal " or " the Christians just need to forget it" IT IS A BIG DEAL. Why should anyone care if its called Christmas, ITS BEEN THAT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS!!!!!!

Just asking. Have you read the whole thread?

Debate here please.

[xosteffanator]

Gosh, those darn religous fanatics

[Spirited Away]

Christians arnt trying to advertise God to people by wanting to keep Dec 25 --- Christmas, or to say Merry Christmas. Its not just Christians that say Merry Christmas, millions and millions of other people have said it and are saying it. And has far as " political correctness" goes its the liberals who started the whole thing, not Christians. And WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT A HOLIDAY HAS TO DO WITH """SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE""""??????? GOOD GOD this whole thing makes me mad. And to all you people who think " its no big deal " or " the Christians just need to forget it" IT IS A BIG DEAL. Why should anyone care if its called Christmas, ITS BEEN THAT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS!!!!!!

Since I brought it (establishment clause) up, I'd like to give you an answer: read the damn post fully before acting stupid.

Yule existed CENTURIES before Christmas. Do you know what "centuries" mean? It means hundreds of years. Go learn your Christian history, little girl.