is george bush out of control?, spying on us citizens Options

[illumineering]

Is this "War on Terror" getting out of hand? It has been disclosed that Bush ordered wiretaps against US citizens without first getting warrants. Click here to read the NY Times article.

His comment that those who oppose him are putting the nation at risk is, in my view, are way out of line. How is breaking the law going to safeguard us when it's a violation of the very liberties he is supposed to be protecting?

Arlen Specter, a PA Republican Senator, is conducting hearings next year to investigate possible illegal activity.

Personally, I'm glad the renewal of the Patriot Act is stalled and people are starting to voice concerns over this whole "War on Terror." The total cost of the war now exceeds $220,000,000,000. That's about $700 for every citizen of the US? Do you feel that much safer after shelling out that much money? Here's a link to a site that keeps a running total of the cost.

I think it's time to take a hard look at what we are willing to sacrafice in order to fight terror.

[jEllyBeaNs]

^yea, i totally agree with everything you are saying. and today my mom told me that Bush wants to put some device in peoples phones to listen to their conversations becuz of some reason that has to do with terrosit or somethin. in my opinion i really really think that is ridiculous, how is that going to solve terroism issues?! :-/

[emazing]

I was watching this debate on the news, actually, this morning.
I think it's .. crazy. There's nothing in the Constitution that makes it legal to spy on U.S. citizens, and even though the President is commander-in-chief doesn't make it any better for him to break laws like that.
It also violates our amendment to privacy.
-

I think it's time to take a hard look at what we are willing to sacrafice in order to fight terror.

Hear, hear.

[sadolakced acid]

the best way to make america safe is to make it the USSR.

but then we're not americans.

what people fail to realize is by being american we are being vulnerable. to change that is to change who we are.

[Tribal J_Rome]

i read about this on comcast.net. this is crazy, the guy needs to get assassinated lol

[_suzie_]

Its not only him, dudes. its his administration, who are ALL conservatives and are a minority in your country. you guys want whats best for the american people, right? well these guys want whats best for their own pockets, and theyre abusing every law they can to do so. THey are creating this fear to scare the people into doing what they want you to do. ignore their shit and dont take the lies
once he gets his ass kicked outa office, make sure u vote in someone who has ur interests at heart !

just dont take shit (thats kinda hard seeing as most politicians are dickheads, but its a dirty game). i feel bad for u american people at the minute, and i hope the situation gets better. theyre grossly abusing your rights dudes, u gotta stand up for em, and dont give into the false fear

[illumineering]

THey are creating this fear to scare the people into doing what they want you to do.

The ambiguous "War on Terror" is vague enough in identifying the enemy and military objectives to create fear of an unidentifiable and unseen enemy. Look how quickly the Patriot Act passed the first time around. It's amazing that people would vote to dismiss constitutionally guaranteed liberties so quickly. Are we any safer today as a result? If you listen to Bush, the answer is no. We're still involved in a war with no end in sight that has resulted in excessive loss of life, huge debt, illegal activity and spying on American citizens. Wow.

[sadolakced acid]

i read about this on comcast.net. this is crazy, he guys needs to get assassinated lol

beware, patriot act still in effect.


it seems to me that the war on terror mostly consists of spending money to protect iraq while spying on american citizens. shouldn't it be the other way around?

[illumineering]

^^ Yes, the MIB really do exist!

[verlorenrivets]

The "war on terror" was out of hand before it started, but everyone hates to listen to people who are right until shit has already hit the fan and has been splattered all over their homes. It's too late now, all of our freedoms are being sucked away, and there's no safeguards left to save us. Remember the carnivore program that was shut down because of Kevin Mitnick's radical action? Probably not, but find some news articles using google on it. You'll find that the Carnivore program severely encroached on the rights of normal citizens by destroying a form of free speech. That program has now come back under some different names since the advent of the " war on terror."

This war is against the american people. This war is fueled by our ignorance. Good job everyone who voted for (or would have voted for) Bush. Twice.

[*not_your_average*]

Yes, our president is out of control. He has gotten the entire country into a situation that we can't get out of. He has taken our worst fears and manipulated them for support from the public. Apparently, if you don't support the "War on Terror," you should be shot. That's not true at all.

Hopefully, Arlen Spector's requests for congressional hearings will be carried out.

[fameONE]

The president is a pawn for a group known as the imperialists who are tools of the Illuminati.

No bullshit.

[illumineering]

The president is a pawn for a group known as the imperialists who are tools of the Illuminati.

No bullshit.

Yeah. I've heard that, but don't know if it's an "urban legend" or something more substantial.

[HolyMoly]

This doesn't make any sense. Bush wants to "spy" on us?

[illumineering]

This doesn't make any sense. Bush wants to "spy" on us?

Click the links in the first post if you're really interested. It's all over the news. There's going to be congressional hearings at the beginning of the new year.

[fameONE]

Yeah.  I've heard that, but don't know if it's an "urban legend" or something more substantial.

I'm not paranoid but I do believe in the Illuminati's existence; just as I believe that Louis Farrakhan played a major role in Malcolm X's assassination.

[_suzie_]

it doesnt matter whether he's in the iluminati or not. he's still a d1ckhead who doesnt care about his people.

i doubt he's in it, as its an organisation promoting a single world order, something which cant be brought about by Bush's idiotic way of doing things and creating wars and hate, which in turn creates bad relationships between the US and other countries. all going against one order.

unless theyve all changed their minds and want an order which is only good for their own pockets and not good for anyone else. actually yeah that makes sense

[acid_high]

bush is a stupid ass cracker i hope he burns in hell for one saying god told him to do it and two being himself

[glit_gal]

Seriously, what else does this President have to hide? It seems like every week there is something new about him that makes us hate him even more. I wish September 11th hadn't happened in the first place but it's a shame to see the government, particularly Republicans, use it as a tool for blackmail to pass laws and acts like the Patriot Act and wage a war in Iraq to supposedly "protect our country." How is it that you can protect our country but not protect the basic rights of all Americans. The same rights that this country was based on and has fought to protect. It is a shame to see that Bush is still in office after this, why can't those Bush supporters realize what their president has been doing to them!?!?!

[fameONE]

it doesnt matter whether he's in the iluminati or not. he's still a d1ckhead who doesnt care about his people.

  i doubt he's in it, as its an organisation promoting a single world order, something which cant be brought about by Bush's idiotic way of doing things and creating wars and hate, which in turn creates bad relationships between the US and other countries. all going against one order.

unless theyve all changed their minds and want an order which is only good for their own pockets and not good for anyone else. actually yeah that makes sense

Actually, it does matter. Do you really think Bush is making the bulk of the presidential decisions? Illuminati theory aside, he still isn't the primary decision maker. His administration makes the important decisions. His father, Condoleeza Rice and d**k Chaney are the president. Bush is a pawn. He has an arrogant American chamr because he's a proud Texan, so his homegrown conservative image is what sold him to the American public. But if you really think Bush is the 'mastermind' behind these lackluster initiatives to "better our country and countries in need" then you're sadly mistakened.

[_suzie_]

Its not only him, dudes. its his administration, who are ALL conservatives and are a minority in your country.

^ thats what i said, if you'd have read my first post in here, instead of repeating hte exact same point i made..

[megumint]

I think it's time to take a hard look at what we are willing to sacrafice in order to fight terror.

Hasn't it been time for that for a long while?

Well, sure, he's out of control. But that's what a lot of people have been saying along. Finally, more are beginning to realize.

But then why are his approval ratings going up?!? I saw that on the news the other day, that he went up like 10% or something.

Sobsob. We're all screwed. So bad.

[HybridCountdown5]

I agree with you, Bush is way out of hand. I hope people are finally beginning to realize their error in electing him as our leader.
I do not support any war or anything that causes people to die (capital punishment etc.) but even so, here's my views:
The war in Iraq isn’t accomplishing what it was intended to when it begun, it’s not little more than a personal vendetta of Bush and his cabinet.
At this point we seem to be repairing the damage we ourselves inflicted.
I truly pity the soldiers who are wasting their lives for an ideal cause that doesn’t exist in this war. For the victim’s families, it’s a lot easier to say that their family member died heroically for the good of their nation than to say that they were killed in a corrupt war because our leader didn’t care or was too stupid to care.

Although they’re comedy shows, The Daily Show with John Stewart and The Colbert Report make valid points, I recommend those who share these views watch (not to mention they’re mad funny)

[*mipadi*]

Well, as Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) recently said, "None of your civil liberties matter much after you're dead."[1]

[f4113n]

even b4 this, patriot act the police can search ur house w/o a warrant, now they can listen 2 ur fone convos.....next will be telescreens

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU
....if not, at least listening

fighting terror? what terror? the suicide bombings that r on the other side of the earth? the bush administration is causing more terror than anything else.

[*mipadi*]

And now the Justice Dept. is investigating the leak that led to the domestic spying disclosure, which is scary--illegal government activities are exactly the sort of thing that the First Amendment is meant to protect.

[The_AZN_Godfathe...]

Yeah, I heard about that on the news a while ago.

Can't believe they're spying on us without even telling us first hand.

Jeez...

Con is the opposite of pro. So... what's the opposite of progress?

Interesting quote I saw on somebody's away message.

[faithin_felix]

So, just play around on those sites and tell me if you believe or not?
and i'm pretty sure it's not photoshopped..i have video and i saw some from the news.
i have a whole video on it but i guess you can view it from these sites?

How could 19 Arab hijackers possibly thwart the entire $40 billion a year U.S. intelligence apparatus?

Why, against all standard protocol, did NORAD fail to respond on that awful morning?

What was the role of the four simultaneous war games on the morning of 9/11?

Why did WTC building 7, which was not hit by a plane, mysteriously fall in a symmetrical implosion eight hours after the attacks?

Where is the investigation into the massive 9/11 insider trading scandal?

Why did the Bush Administration fight to the hilt against any investigation into the attacks?

Why has the media refused to address these and other critical questions?

http://reopen911.org/
http://lonelantern.org/911news.html

[*anubis*]

umm... can someone kill him already?

[fameONE]

umm... can someone kill him already?

You're an idiot if you think that an assassination attempt (successful or not) will make a difference.

After Kennedy was killed, LBJ still ran things just the way JFK would've wanted them to be run.

[artislife90]

umm... can someone kill him already?

less blunt things than that have gotten people investigated.

[illumineering]

And now the Justice Dept. is investigating the leak that led to the domestic spying disclosure, which is scary--illegal government activities are exactly the sort of thing that the First Amendment is meant to protect.

It's tragic that the whistleblower is being presented as the "criminal" rather than those who are responsible for the domestic spying.

[*xcaitlinx*]

Why the hell hasn't he been impeached yet??

[*kryogenix*]

Why the hell hasn't he been impeached yet??

Because he hasn't been found guilty of an impeachable offense?

fighting terror? what terror? the suicide bombings that r on the other side of the earth? the bush administration is causing more terror than anything else.

Actually, Cheney's arguement is that because the administration is doing all of these things, there hasn't been any terror attacks.

Although, I'm starting to question the extent of what the government is doing, if it is true.

[xosteffanator]

I didn't like him since the begining. He's a liar and a cheat and should be impeached.

[*mipadi*]

Because he hasn't been found guilty of an impeachable offense?

No, it's because charges haven't been brought against him--because his party controls Congress. The violation of the domestic surveillance law is only the first of a string of "high crimes and misdemeanors" Bush has violated. If Clinton can be impeached for lying about a sexual relationship, I think Bush should be impeached for lying to the American public and breaking federal law. But will that happen? Not when a single party controls Congress.

[*kryogenix*]

No, it's because charges haven't been brought against him--because his party controls Congress. The violation of the domestic surveillance law is only the first of a string of "high crimes and misdemeanors" Bush has violated. If Clinton can be impeached for lying about a sexual relationship, I think Bush should be impeached for lying to the American public and breaking federal law. But will that happen? Not when a single party controls Congress.

Is there absolutely concrete evidence? I'll admit that I haven't been paying too much attention to the news lately. If it's true, then he does deserve to be impeached. What other high crimes and misdemeanors has he commited though?

[*mipadi*]

Bush has admitted to allowing the NSA to spy on the American people. The Justice Department "interpreted" the law to allow Bush to circumvent the court that was set up to monitor such surveillance--which is funny how the Justice Department keeps "interpreting" American law to allow for domestic surveillance, torture of prisoners (who are arguably illegally detained), the detention of foreign nationals who are not soldiers, allowing for such detainees to be classified as "enemy combatants", rather than POW's, and thus arguing they are not subject to the rights accorded prisoners of war... So yes, there is no question that Bush authorized domestic surveillance. And there's really not a question of legality--it's illegal. End of story.

As for lies, start with lying to Congress about the reasons for the war in Iraq, and move up from there. Since then, there's been a string of lies in order to justify the war. Let's see, the reasoning originally was that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. Bush claimed we had solid, irrefutable evidence--evidence that suddenly evaporated once we actually occupied Iraq. I can't even remember all the reasons that have been used since then. I think the current one is "Bringing democracy to the Iraqi people." (I guess torture and illegal detention are considered a way to spread democracy.)

And what of the Valerie Plame affair? Scooter Libbey has already been indicted. Karl Rove likely had something to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if the masterminds are even higher up. Of course, this hasn't been proven--yet--so it's not an impeachable offense, but it's just another illustration of the abuses of power of the Bush administration since it came to power. And besides, it doesn't matter if it's not impeachable--there are enough other impeachable offenses that the House of Representatives should seriously consider drawing up articles of impeachment, if only to save their own skin--there's growing discontent with the Republican Party and their insistence on "toeing the party line," no matter how out of control the Congressional and Presidential leaders are.

Of course, examining Congress leads to a whole other list of offenses and corruption--Tom DeLay being but one of them--but we don't even need to examine that in order to see how out of control the current administration is.

[aznxdreamer]

bush is psycho.

[WHOngos144]

Bush is crazy.

[sadolakced acid]

Why, against all standard protocol, did NORAD fail to respond on that awful morning?

What was the role of the four simultaneous war games on the morning of 9/11?

Why did WTC building 7, which was not hit by a plane, mysteriously fall in a symmetrical implosion eight hours after the attacks?

i believe you misunderstand the purpose of NORAD.

NORAD doesn't protect america from passenger planes.

they protect north america from soviet nuclear bombers and missiles.

and as far as WTC 7, you've heard of fire, haven't you?

[*kryogenix*]

i believe you misunderstand the purpose of NORAD.

NORAD doesn't protect america from passenger planes.

they protect north america from soviet nuclear bombers and missiles.

and as far as WTC 7, you've heard of fire, haven't you?

It's not him talking, I think he's just copying and pasting.

[vash1530]

this is old news. the patriot act has been allowing bush to spy on us since it was first passed.