Are you religous?, And Why? Options

[vash1530]

because of the recent debate i've been having in the "Jesus... is he Gay?" thread, i've decided to make a new thread so that I can argue eith ppl and not be off-topic. When anyone is ready, ill start the assault.

[coconutter]

I'm not "religous" I'm standing up for what I believe in (God and that Jesus died on the cross). These topics should seriously be closed, because there is no point in arguing about it, none of this is going to change anyones mind. There's absolutely no reason for these topics, in my opinion.

[DrEaMgUy2K1]

religion shoudnt be a topic to argue about. you either accept and follow it or dont.

im not religious

[vash1530]

I'm not "religous"  I'm standing up for what I believe in (God and that Jesus died on the cross).  These topics should seriously be closed, because there is no point in arguing about it, none of this is going to change anyones mind. There's absolutely no reason for these topics, in my opinion.

Not true because I got rid of christianity in this way : i was a devout christian. I studied the bible, but as I thought about it more I questioned it more. Then I got into a argument with afriend about religion and he totally changed my mind on the subject. Given facts ad using logic, u can get rid of a person's misperceptions. If you can give me a good argument, u just may change someone's life. I mean isn't that how religions are started!

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

Not true because I got rid of christianity in this way : i was a devout christian. I studied the bible, but as I thought about it more I questioned it more. Then I got into a argument with afriend about religion and he totally changed my mind on the subject. Given facts ad using logic, u can get rid of a person's misperceptions. If you can give me a good argument, u just may change someone's life. I mean isn't that how religions are started!

That is a case by case situation. I know some people who you could argue the crap out of them and they still would never go against their religion. Some people you can convince with logic, others are too stubborn.

[*disco infiltrator*]

There's been two God threads; one with 50 pages, the other with 20.

So I'll just rename this God III, then, if we're going to debate God's existence?

[*mipadi*]

When anyone is ready, ill start the assault.

Why, did Jesus hurt you when you were a boy?

[Retrogressive]

There's been two God threads; one with 50 pages, the other with 20.

So I'll just rename this God III, then, if we're going to debate God's existence?

Hahaha, that sounds like a software.

"Hey kids I just downloaded God Beta 1.5"

[vash1530]

o god did not hurt me as a boy stupid.
i just find it a relevant topic that people will go against logic ad rason to believe these insane ideas.
o and i like the fact that ppl are saying this thread woont get anything solved because that meas you understand that some people will never give up somethig like religion no matter how much it has been disproven

[Gigi]

I'll get one thing straight right off the bat; I'm an atheist and I don't believe in a God or Higer Being/Power, etc.

HOWEVER...

what I don't understand is why people must SUPPRESS religion so. You say that people refuse to give up something even though it has been disproven - have you ever thought about why?

People simply don't care that it has been disproven. When you break it down, religion helps people. It is an emotional and spiritual crutch for people, and it guides them throughout life. I don't know about you, but that sounds like a good thing to me.

And my question is...why must you so passionately suppress a good thing?

Michael says it the best.

Why, did Jesus hurt you when you were a boy?

[vash1530]

I'll get one thing straight right off the bat; I'm an atheist and I don't believe in a God or Higer Being/Power, etc.

HOWEVER...

what I don't understand is why people must SUPPRESS religion so. You say that people refuse to give up something even though it has been disproven - have you ever thought about why?

People simply don't care that it has been disproven. When you break it down, religion helps people. It is an emotional and spiritual crutch for people, and it guides them throughout life. I don't know about you, but that sounds like a good thing to me.

And my question is...why must you so passionately suppress a good thing?

Michael says it the best.

ur getting me wrong im not trying to supress religion ( i could't do that if i dedicated my life to it) and yes i do know that religion "helps" people.(Iused to use it to guide my life and i looked for scripture when i had problems.)

anyways i dont view religion as a good thing. It clouds peoples judgement, gives them false hope, and ultimately lies to them. Its like telling a person, about to die, and someone reassuring you that you'll be fine. It's comforting but to what point and purpose?that they'll be fine. Or aYes, people have had better lives but for what purpose?God takes the individuality out of people.

[*disco infiltrator*]

But it makes people feel better. Sure, the hope may be false, but at least it's hope that something better is to come. Some people don't need that hope, but some do. Why not leave them be? Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone too.

I'm an atheist as well, but you're going a bit overboard to the offensive. You should not try to push your beliefs on others. That's like Evangelism, only..not Christianity.

There's a reason people are Christian. It gives them something to look forward to and a way to reward themselves for following moral guidelines. Some people need that. I agree people shouldn't just be a way because a book said so, but some people want to. So leave them be.

Why do you feel the need to force everyone into having the same belief system as yourself? You need to grow up and realize that you alone cannot be only and completely right about everything (weird for me to say that, cause you're 2 months older than me, according to the birthday on your profile). Be more mature about the situation, hm?

[zepfel]

whilst it may not strictly be the same as my opinion, i do kind of understand the thought behind this topic.

But it makes people feel better. Sure, the hope may be false, but at least it's hope that something better is to come. Some people don't need that hope, but some do. Why not leave them be? Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone too.?

there are other, and in some cases better, ways to gain hope. Using Christian values to live one's life, whilst practicing Buddhist meditation, for example, would not be classed as being religious, but in most cases increases the security a person feels, and makes them happier.

I'm an atheist as well, but you're going a bit overboard to the offensive. You should not try to push your beliefs on others. That's like Evangelism, only..not Christianity.?

Almost every religion tries to push it's beliefs on others. Jehovah's Witnesses are the most persistant buggers ever, but i don't dislike them in the slightest - i can tolerate them. which is what you're suggesting.
And anyway, Christianity pushes tolerance as a value, so why should Christians be particularly bothered? To me it sounds as if the most of the people arguing about this are in fact "atheists" (the quotation marks because it's touchy what an atheist really is - it's too broad an umbrella)

Why do you feel the need to force everyone into having the same belief system as yourself? You need to grow up and realize that you alone cannot be only and completely right about everything (weird for me to say that, cause you're 2 months older than me, according to the birthday on your profile). Be more mature about the situation, hm?

it's not immature to try and encourage reasoned discussion. this person has had a change of heart in their core beliefs - i don't think that it is in any way a bad thing that they should wish to share this.

[*disco infiltrator*]

But the way this guy is doing it isn't good. Sharing intelligent debate is one thing - offending others and having the "you must be this way or you're stupid" mentality is another.

[NgocQuyen]

ur getting me wrong im not trying to supress religion ( i could't do that if i dedicated my life to it) and yes i do know that religion "helps" people.(Iused to use it to guide my life and i looked for scripture when i had problems.)

anyways i dont view religion as a good thing. It clouds peoples judgement, gives them false hope, and ultimately lies to them. Its like telling a person, about to die, and someone reassuring you that you'll be fine. It's comforting but to what point and purpose?that they'll be fine. Or aYes, people have had better lives but for what purpose?God takes the individuality out of people.

oh wow, do you just WANT to argue about this? i mean there really isnt any point in argueing about this...like dreamguy was saying....but i AM RELIGIOUS. why? you may ask. because God created me. did the first people to walk this earth get here? a peanut? is that how science proved it? oh please tell me its science. entertain me a little bit. come on. PUULLEAAZEEEEeeeEe if you want to argue about it i'm ready.

on the nicer side........you can beleive whatever you want to beleive, no need to argue about it...you have the choice to beleive in whatever you want to believe. but you my friend, it sounds like you're trying to convince everyone that there is no God and he never existed and that everything you say is right and thats that.
THAT MY FRIEND IS CALLED ARROGANCE!
but yeahhh...that is all i have to say for now

[Mulder]

im agnostic.

i want to believe. i want to be just as religious as my friends. but for some reason, i cant believe.


i answered the question. what are we debating?

[verlorenrivets]

Why, did Jesus hurt you when you were a boy?

Wow, you pulled a me! Or... Have I been pulling a you this entire time? *eerie music plays*

As far as anything regarding religion, I personally don't debate about it unless someone's trying to change my views on it. I also personally don't care if this fictional character Jesus was gay or not.

[latinprep12]

a little, but i wont take jokes about my religion to serious and im real open to other religions

[vash1530]

wow..... you'd rather ppl act like sheep so that they can feel good about themselves........damn i ca't stad weak minded ppl

[verlorenrivets]

wow..... you'd rather ppl act like sheep so that they can feel good about themselves........damn i ca't stad weak minded ppl

I don't know what that was a response to, but I guess I'll share my views off of that.

I don't like Christianity. The easiest way to make a case that there is no Christian god is to read the bible. Most Christians haven't even read the damn book, and my atheist friends know more about it than the Christians do. The bible is a case against intelligence, and I can't respect that.
I respect Buddhism because it seems to carry the most truth, and is the least abraisive about the spirituality part. There are some theories in this philosophy that are fun to speculate, but are nearly impossible to prove, such as chakras and karma. All the figure heads of this religion are extremely intelligent and balanced individuals, and I hold high respect for that.

I was born and raised catholic for the first year of my life, then moved over to that general christian thing until I was in middleschool, then when I was smart enough to choose my own religion instead of subscribing to the easy answers, I chose Buddhism. Just as of recently, I've renounced my faith in anything but science and what I can see is real. This is why I don't think I have a proper footing to convince any sheep of any sort of improper thought unless I can prove the opposite of their case, which isn't possible with anything relating to faith, IMHO. Faith, once founded, is separate and sometimes an opposite to logic. Fighting something with logic that is obviously not logic at all is counterproductive, because both sides could be wrong, but neither will concede defeat, and there is no way to tell, even if a side does "lose".

[vash1530]

I don't know what that was a response to, but I guess I'll share my views off of that.

I don't like Christianity. The easiest way to make a case that there is no Christian god is to read the bible. Most Christians haven't even read the damn book, and my atheist friends know more about it than the Christians do. The bible is a case against intelligence, and I can't respect that.
I respect Buddhism because it seems to carry the most truth, and is the least abraisive about the spirituality part. There are some theories in this philosophy that are fun to speculate, but are nearly impossible to prove, such as chakras and karma. All the figure heads of this religion are extremely intelligent and balanced individuals, and I hold high respect for that.

I was born and raised catholic for the first year of my life, then moved over to that general christian thing until I was in middleschool, then when I was smart enough to choose my own religion instead of subscribing to the easy answers, I chose Buddhism. Just as of recently, I've renounced my faith in anything but science and what I can see is real. This is why I don't think I have a proper footing to convince any sheep of any sort of improper thought unless I can prove the opposite of their case, which isn't possible with anything relating to faith, IMHO. Faith, once founded, is separate and sometimes an opposite to logic. Fighting something with logic that is obviously not logic at all is counterproductive, because both sides could be wrong, but neither will concede defeat, and there is no way to tell, even if a side does "lose".

somehow you put my thoughts into words.

[Mulder]

you just seem really ignorant.

im almost athiest.. but i understand the purpose of religion. it provides people with hope, it gives them a reason to live. peoples children who die can turn to their faith for comfort..

at least understand that.

[vash1530]

you just seem really ignorant.

im almost athiest.. but i understand the purpose of religion. it provides people with hope, it gives them a reason to live. peoples children who die can turn to their faith for comfort..

at least understand that.

i understand that its convenient.
my question is can you understand that its a sad thing that people have to cloud their vision just so that they can feel good about themselves. Religion makes people so dependant, sometimes almost helpless without it.
more later(ive got hw)

[Spirited Away]

i understand that its convenient.
my question is can you understand that its a sad thing that people have to cloud their vision just so that they can feel good about themselves. Religion makes people so dependant, sometimes almost helpless without it.
more later(ive got hw)

Before I start, I'd like you to know that I'm an agnostic, who came from from a family of devout Buddhists and Catholics. I completely understand where you're coming from when you say that religion make one dependent and helpless. I'm somewhat of a humanist, and I believe that we, naturally, have strengths to overcome certain obstacles which religion claims only a higher power can help us. I also believe in the human mind, that in the right environment—not necessarily the best one, can hold together under oppression and hardships of any kind.

With that said, I think your views are somewhat similar to a philosopher I once read. He believes that religion, namely Christianity, makes man weak, corrupted even, and that those who can resist the lure religion become a "higher" type of man—one that is superior to all the rest. Though I have much respect for this philosopher, I cannot dare agree to this view completely.

If you so believe in humanity, in that a person can make his/her own decisions, and overcome all things, you have a right to believe it. However, in the same rationale, you must also trust a person, believe that he/she will make the decision that will most benefit himself, even if religion is the final decision. Choosing religion does not make him pathetic, or weak, it makes him human; a human whose mind has failed him in some way. No, that was not an insult, it was an observation. The said failing may be distrust of friends and family or disappointment in life. Instinctively, the mind reaches out for whatever it is that can right the failing. Religion, or developing all kinds of concepts and ideals, may be some things to correct it. Again, this is the human thing to do.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Nov 21 2005, 03:06 PM

[*not_your_average*]

To answer the question, no, I am not religious. I am an atheist, in fact.

Religion is a choice, just as atheism and agnosticism are choices. Everything we do in this lifetime, in my opinion, is a choice made by us. Non-harmful choices are intended to be respected and tolerated, no matter how much we may disagree with them. Therefore, if a person chooses to be religious, we cannot disregard that choice. We must accept it and respect it, no matter how much we may disagree with it.

[vash1530]

To answer the question, no, I am not religious. I am an atheist, in fact.

Religion is a choice, just as atheism and agnosticism are choices. Everything we do in this lifetime, in my opinion, is a choice made by us. Non-harmful choices are intended to be respected and tolerated, no matter how much we may disagree with them. Therefore, if a person chooses to be religious, we cannot disregard that choice. We must accept it and respect it, no matter how much we may disagree with it.

accept it yes
respecting it depends on the case

[vash1530]

Before I start, I'd like you to know that I'm an agnostic, who came from from a family of devout Buddhists and Catholics. I completely understand where you're coming from when you say that religion make one dependent and helpless. I'm somewhat of a humanist, and I believe that we, naturally, have strengths to overcome certain obstacles which religion claims only a higher power can help us. I also believe in the human mind, that in the right environment—not necessarily the best one, can hold together under oppression and hardships of any kind. 

With that said, I think your views are somewhat similar to a philosopher I once read. He believes that religion, namely Christianity, makes man weak, corrupted even, and that those who can resist the lure religion become a "higher" type of man—one that is superior to all the rest. Though I have much respect for this philosopher, I cannot dare agree to this view completely.

If you so believe in humanity, in that a person can make his/her own decisions, and overcome all things, you have a right to believe it. However, in the same rationale, you must also trust a person, believe that he/she will make the decision that will most benefit himself, even if religion is the final decision. Choosing religion does not make him pathetic, or weak, it makes him human; a human whose mind has failed him in some way. No, that was not an insult, it was an observation. The said failing may be distrust of friends and family or disappointment in life. Instinctively, the mind reaches out for whatever it is that can right the failing. Religion, or developing all kinds of concepts and ideals, may be some things to correct it. Again, this is the human thing to do.

im not trying to say that im overall a better person than a religous person (thats an opinion) i do believe however that i am a free-thinker because i use reason and logic instead of beliefs and opinions which drive any major religion.

[verlorenrivets]

Actually, not_your_average, you've stated a common misconception. In regards to theism, you are either an Atheist or a Theist. Agnosticism is a theory of knowledge. Look it up sometime, and stop using it in debates on religion if you can't use it right. If you don't absolutely, 100% believe in that a god exists, you are an Atheist.

From Wikipedia, because I'm tired of explaining this to people:
"Agnosticism, focusing on what can be known, is an epistemological position (dealing with the nature and limits of human knowledge); while atheism and theism are ontological positions (a branch of metaphysics that deals with what types of entities exist). Agnosticism is not to be confused with a view specifically opposing the doctrine of gnosis and Gnosticism—these are religious concepts that are not generally related to agnosticism.

Agnosticism is distinct from strong atheism (also called positive atheism), which denies the existence of any deities. However, the more general variety of atheism, weak atheism (also called negative atheism, and sometimes neutral atheism), professes only a lack of belief in a god or gods, which is not equivalent to but is compatible with agnosticism.

Agnostics may claim that it isn't possible to have absolute or certain spiritual knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no such knowledge. In both cases, agnosticism involves some form of skepticism towards religious statements."

Don't take the above as the absolute answer either, there are plenty of other definitions that you should look through before you come to a conclusion on what agnosticism is, and what points you can and cannot use it for.

All I'm asking is that you know what you're talking about before you say it.

[*not_your_average*]

deleted.

[Spirited Away]

im not trying to say that im overall a better person than a religous person (thats an opinion) i do believe however that i am a free-thinker because i use reason and logic instead of beliefs and opinions which drive any major religion.

I am not saying you are either. I am saying, that as a free-thinker, who have faith in humanity, it is logical, and rational to believe that turning to religion is something that humans do because it is the decision that best suited him/her. To say that the decision is 'sad' is illogical when you have so much faith in the human mind.

[*not_your_average*]

From Wikipedia, because I'm tired of explaining this to people:
"Agnosticism, focusing on what can be known, is an epistemological position (dealing with the nature and limits of human knowledge); while atheism and theism are ontological positions (a branch of metaphysics that deals with what types of entities exist)."

So, according to that, agnosticism focuses on what can exist, and atheism focuses on what does exist?

[*mipadi*]

Don't take the above as the absolute answer either, there are plenty of other definitions that you should look through before you come to a conclusion on what agnosticism is, and what points you can and cannot use it for.

All I'm asking is that you know what you're talking about before you say it.

It's still useable with regards to theism; it would mean, then, that a person who is agnostic (in regards to theism) holds the belief that knowledge of deities cannot be known; therefore, such a person is "noncommittal" or "unconvinced" about religion. From the Wikipedia: "Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth values of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods, or deities—are unknown, inherently unknowable, or incoherent, and therefore, (some agnostics may go as far to say) irrelevant to life. The term and the related agnostic were coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869, and are also used to describe those who are unconvinced or noncommittal about the existence of deities as well as other matters of religion." [1] Agnosticism can be used in a broader philosophical sense, but since religion could be considered a subset of philosophy in general, it can easily apply to a discussion about religion and a person's stance towards religious deities.

[verlorenrivets]

So, according to that, agnosticism focuses on what can exist, and atheism focuses on what does exist?

Correct, on the terms that you're applying agnosticism to human knowledge alone. Agnosticism is not a religious choice, like theism and atheism. People commonly misuse it because they hold a negative connotation of atheism, but don't want to be known as a Theist.

[*mipadi*]

Correct, on the terms that you're applying agnosticism to human knowledge alone. Agnosticism is not a religious choice, like theism and atheism. People commonly misuse it because they hold a negative connotation of atheism, but don't want to be known as a Theist.

It can, however, be used to describe one's stance towards the existence of a god or gods.

[verlorenrivets]

It can, however, be used to describe one's stance towards the existence of a god or gods.

Yes, of course, that was the original intent, even. I just didn't want people to sling around the word as an answer to everything.

[*not_your_average*]

Correct, on the terms that you're applying agnosticism to human knowledge alone. Agnosticism is not a religious choice, like theism and atheism. People commonly misuse it because they hold a negative connotation of atheism, but don't want to be known as a Theist.

Ah, I see what you're saying now.

It can, however, be used to describe one's stance towards the existence of a god or gods.

That was the context in which I was using the term 'agnosticism.'

[*disco infiltrator*]

im not trying to say that im overall a better person than a religous person (thats an opinion) i do believe however that i am a free-thinker because i use reason and logic instead of beliefs and opinions which drive any major religion.

No. That's not free-thinking. That's the "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality.

Christianity is not wrong. If your mind works in the way that [actual] Christians do, then that would seem to make most sense. It is logical, just, not to you and me. To those who strongly believe in a God and/or Gods, that's what makes most sense. It works and connects to them. Just because you don't agree with it or just because it seems ridiculous to you (as it does to me), that still doesn't make it wrong. It's merely differing mindsets.

This is what you have yet to understand. Just because you may think differently than someone else does not make them any less intelligent.

Have you ever thought that maybe they are the strong ones? Try thinking about it. I mean, we don't have the strength to take that leap of faith and believe in something that might be wrong, simply on chance. I know I couldn't believe in something based solely on faith. That's why I don't. It's not in me to follow something I have no evidence of. I don't have a strong enough mind to resist the alternate theory and take that leap.

Look at things from another point of view before you go off calling others weak and stupid simply for having differing opinions. They are just as equal as you (if they know what they're talking about). They just are not you.

[vash1530]

it is actually not logical at all to educated people. Yes their false hope in god gives them a sort of strength because they believe that go has their back but, in the end, this will backfire when they begin to rely on him too much.
O and, since you haven't read some of my previos posts, i was a devout christian not too long ago so i still have somewhat of an idea of their mind-set. But, now that i can see without religion clouding my judgment, i have recognized that religion gives you misconceptions and takes the thinking out of things.

[illumineering]

i have recognized that religion gives you misconceptions and takes the thinking out of things.

Religion does not have the capacity to give or take anything from anyone. It is the choice of an individual to accept or reject anything that is a function of a belief. Additionally, the ability to use one's mind exists regardless of personal beliefs regarding religion or anything else.

Because you chose to "give away" your individuality to religion, you can't claim it back because you reject religion now. It never took it in the first place. All you've done is move along the same continuum of choice. Nothing is fundamentally changed with regard to how you view the nature of power, choice or free will. The nature of your argument throughout this thread is illogical.

[*disco infiltrator*]

That is because you are you, and not someone else. Other people can think differently than you. Stop discrediting anything anyone else to say and thinking it's wrong without even taking the time to really listen and comprehend. Just because someone thinks differently than you does not make it wrong, stupid, incompetent, etc.

It's not logical to you. Fine. But what makes you think you're so incredibly educated? From what I've seen, you're rebellious and stubborn, yes, but in no way does that make you far more intelligent than any other person, much less any religious person I've met. You are the same age as me, though I seem to be comprehending more.

Religion is not only based on hope either. People believe it because it makes sense to them. No one would really believe in something if it made no sense to them. People follow Christianity because it provides answers that the alternative cannot. Some people don't need those answers, because what is provided of the alternative is satisfactory information; people like you and me. However, some people are searching for answers, and if religion is the answer provided, it will be understood more than nothing would be.

Do you know anything about any other religion besides Christianity? Do you know what belief system they are based on? Do you know what guidelines they follow? Do you know why they follow them?

[Spirited Away]

it is actually not logical at all to educated people. Yes their false hope in god gives them a sort of strength because they believe that go has their back but, in the end, this will backfire when they begin to rely on him too much.
O and, since you haven't read some of my previos posts, i was a devout christian not too long ago so i still have somewhat of an idea of their mind-set. But, now that i can see without religion clouding my judgment, i have recognized that religion gives you misconceptions and takes the thinking out of things.

... well, isn't that the most illogical thing I've ever heard from a free-thinker.

There are doctors, philosophers, famed writers, and so many more people—credited with intelligence, who believe in God. Are you telling me that they are all uneducated?

[illumineering]

Disco Infiltrator was that post for me or the person above me?

[*disco infiltrator*]

Person above you.

[Mulder]

to the person who started this topic..vash----:

once again, i will say that you are very ignorant of other people's beliefs, religions, cultures...

before attacking everyone who is even slightly religious, try to understand where they're coming from.

i certainly understand where you're coming from. i am not religious at all, and yet i completely disagree with you, because i understand other's opinions. i know why they believe what they do, and i respect that.

not everyone is you. every person is unique. try to grasp that.

[The_AZN_Godfathe...]

I personally don't like to get into religion that much.

Whenever you get into religion, it always seems like you have to be part of a "team."

I mean, seriously, look at how many people are killed because of religion.

Fanatics...

I'll stop here.

[HuGzNKissEs]

I'm just going to say this the way my dad always said it

"If you don't believe in God, you BETTER be right"

Meaning that if you spend your life here on Earth not believing in God....when you die ....what if by some chance there IS a god?.......& everything about Heaven & Hell IS true?

[*disco infiltrator*]

And what if there isn't? You just spent your whole life basing what you did off of a fictional person's wishes, hoping to go somewhere after you die when you're only gonna rot in the ground. That would kinda suck. Spent your life thinking you were higher than others because you followed someone who didn't even exist. People make fun of others who are really into Lord of the Rings or something, and they wish they could be in that world, and believe that it could have been true. It's essentially the same way. They base their lives off of it. You think it's ridiculous, but it's the same thing.

Are you saying people should just believe in God because it's "safe"? That wouldn't be real belief anyway. Not everyone believes it. You can't make someone believe it, and they can't make themselves believe it if they don't, in their hearts.

So, your little statement there works both ways.

[The_AZN_Godfathe...]

If we knew what happends after we die, then I'm sure they're wouldn't be all this fuss about religion. But we don't... so we do have all this fuss about religion.

Something will still affect you, even if you didn't know about it, or you don't believe in it.

[HuGzNKissEs]

Spent your life thinking you were higher than others because you followed someone who didn't even exist. People make fun of others who are really into Lord of the Rings or something, and they wish they could be in that world, and believe that it could have been true.

I beg your pardon i DO NOT think I am better than anyone. & FYI I do not make fun of anyone for their own beliefs or customs of any sort.... even those into things such as Lord of the Rings(which i LOVED) or Harry Potter.

I do not believe in God to "be safe". I believe in God for the sole purpose that I have seen more than one miracle occur after a large group gets together & prays to him. Personally, I choose to believe that the miracles are related to the prayers. I happen to find happiness and bliss in my belief of God & Jesus Christ & I will continue to worship & praise him for the good he's done in my own life and in the lives of my friends & family.

I do not cut you down for your own beliefs, for they are yours, not mine.
I also do NOT seek to "make" people believe in God....I personally COMPLETELY disagree with pushing a belief on anyone, especially a religious belief.

[Spirited Away]

I also do NOT seek to "make" people believe in God....I personally COMPLETELY disagree with pushing a belief on anyone, especially a religious belief.

So you don't agree with evangelism?

[NoSex]

I also do NOT seek to "make" people believe in God....I personally COMPLETELY disagree with pushing a belief on anyone, especially a religious belief.

Which is cool and all, but... don't you also believe that everyone who does not believe what you believe is going to burn in hell forever because of it?

If so, don't you almost think it is kind of sick to disagree with "pushing" religious beliefs on others? Don't you think it seems a bit immoral that you do not seek to make people believe?

Because, under your own belief, if you don't, they will all burn in hell forever.

How exactly do you reconcile that?

Or, are you for spreading the word, just not being that aggressive about it?

[oXMuhNirvanaXo]

I am

[HuGzNKissEs]

Because, under your own belief, if you don't, they will all burn in hell forever.

How exactly do you reconcile that?

Actually rather than condeming them for their beliefs I pray for them in hopes that maybe something will change their minds. & i truthfully dont believe just because someone doesnt have the exact same beliefs as me that they are going to hell. Besides...you have until the day you die...& so i have to have hope that a lot of people will change. I try to be optimistic. But as for me I feel that my part in it is just to pray, being that is my belief.


O yeh..& wuts evangelism? i need a larger vocabulary

[NoSex]

Actually rather than condeming them for their beliefs I pray for them in hopes that maybe something will change their minds.

That may be so, however, in the end, God will condenm them for their beliefs. If they do not bow before his majesty, like a jealous meglomaniac child, he will throw them down into the eternal fires of hell so that they may suffer forever.

Not cool.

[HuGzNKissEs]

thats kinda scary when u think about it...but i think there is hope enough for everyone. Like my brother, for instance. He is a non-believer. I just pray for him & i know that things will get better ....Please dont burst my lil bubble I am in my happy place

[Spirited Away]

O yeh..& wuts evangelism?  i need a larger vocabulary

What the heck? Are you not a Christian? If you are, you've just contradicted your own faith when you said you do not agree with pushing your belief on others. Evangelism is very much a part of Christianity.

[Mulder]

thats kinda scary when u think about it...but i think there is hope enough for everyone.  Like my brother, for instance.  He is a non-believer.  I just pray for him & i know that things will get better ....Please dont burst my lil bubble I am in my happy place

im sorry...but im not religious, and i dont want you to pray for me.

im not going to say you're wrong for believing. your beliefs are your own. dont try to change mine.

[PiGo]

That may be so, however, in the end, God will condenm them for their beliefs. If they do not bow before his majesty, like a jealous meglomaniac child, he will throw them down into the eternal fires of hell so that they may suffer forever.

Not cool.

I'm not an expert on Bible scriptures, but in the Beatitudes during the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus gives a description of what a person should be like for them to go to heaven.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land.
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

He doesn't once say "Blessed are they who accept me, and only me as their God" or something like that.
I've always thought that the idea of "All non-Christians will go to hell" was something that "believers" have come up with, not the religion itself.

[Spirited Away]

I've always thought that the idea of "All non-Christians will go to hell" was something that "believers" have come up with, not the religion itself.

Thank you. That made sense to me.

[NoSex]

He doesn't once say "Blessed are they who accept me, and only me as their God" or something like that.
I've always thought that the idea of "All non-Christians will go to hell" was something that "believers" have come up with, not the religion itself.

- "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John.3:31).

- For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life... He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John.3:16,18)

- Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John.14:6)


Countless other areas of the Bible condemn non-believers and those who worship other gods. Refering to them as "doomed", incapable of "doing good", as well as commanding that they be stoned to death and murdered for their offense to the one and only true God.

[Spirited Away]

So then what is true in Christianity if all are contradictions?

[illfadedsoldier]

hey dude i dont get y ppl care about something that u cant see or anything...all ur doin is believing in something thats not there. ur lying to urself about soemthing that u never know sum1 way back coulda wrote a funny comic about soemthing and then he turned it into a story that turned into the bible. i dont get y ppl care so much and are like oh if u uh go steal a penny off the ground in the middle of new york gods gunna strike u down oh its over. and y should u devote to something that doesnt change anything... it puts confidence in u that shouldnt be there. tellin a person wut u did wrong might help u out but it puts them into a bind. going to church and just sitting and stuff and listening to wut he has to say i hav eno problem with that but devoting ur life to it is retarded. sorry ppl i dont hate religion but im mad at the fact that ppl make their life revolve around soemthing that u cant see or hear or feel or anything

[*disco infiltrator*]

I beg your pardon i DO NOT think I am better than anyone.  & FYI I do not make fun of anyone for their own beliefs or customs of any sort.... even those into things such as Lord of the Rings(which i LOVED) or Harry Potter. 

I do not believe in God to "be safe".  I believe in God for the sole purpose that I have seen more than one miracle occur after a large group gets together & prays to him.  Personally, I choose to believe that the miracles are related to the prayers.  I happen to find happiness and bliss in my belief of God & Jesus Christ & I will continue to worship & praise him for the good he's done in my own life and in the lives of my friends & family.

I do not cut you down for your own beliefs, for they are yours, not mine. 
I also do NOT seek to "make" people believe in God....I personally COMPLETELY disagree with pushing a belief on anyone, especially a religious belief.

Hm, I beg YOUR pardon, but was I talking about YOU, specifically? Was I replying to YOUR post? Perhaps, maybe, you could read the post I was replying to, and then you would have an idea of what I was saying in my post.

Nowhere have I EVER said that every single Christian thinks they are better than others, or makes fun of others, or believes to be safe, nor have I ever said that every single Christian follows strict Evangelism.

And, since I don't think you've been told yet, Evangelism is the spreading and attempting to convert others to the Christian faith, in the slightest of words.

Perhaps you should read the thread a bit, before just picking out some random post and feeling offended by it. I don't just say things randomly; most of the time, someone else has to say something for me to respond to it.

I really have no problem with you if you're Christian. That's a-O.K. I don't cut down on you either, do I? Have I ever insulted you, or your faith? Oh, I think the answer is no, I have not. So why are you making me out to be the bad guy?

[PiGo]

So then what is true in Christianity if all are contradictions?

There are many contradictions, because the bible was written by different people, and changed over the years (whether on purpose, or mistakes in translation).

For example, Acid Bath Slayer used all of his quotes from the gospel of John. Large portions of this gospel are even said to have been written years later (at a time when John the Apostle would atleast have to have been 90) Also it's so different than Matthew, Marc, and Luke. John's book doesn't follow the same order and it focuses on different things. It also seems to be written by a man with higher education that the actual John would have had (he was a fisherman). I on the other hand chose a text from the gospel according to Matthew who was a completely different person, so of course his writings might be different.

[Spirited Away]

There are many contradictions, because the bible was written by different people, and changed over the years (whether on purpose, or mistakes in translation).

For example, Acid Bath Slayer used all of his quotes from the gospel of John.  Large portions of this gospel are even said to have been written years later (at a time when John the Apostle would atleast have to have been 90)  Also it's so different than Matthew, Marc, and Luke.  John's book doesn't follow the same order and it focuses on different things.  It also seems to be written by a man with higher education that the actual John would have had (he was a fisherman).  I on the other hand chose a text from the gospel according to Matthew who was a completely different person, so of course his writings might be different.

So what is true?

[HuGzNKissEs]

disco infiltrator:

I do appologize. After my post on "If you dont believe in God, you better be right" your post had a lot of the use of the word "you" & i happened to take offense to that. If your intentions were not against me personally then I do appologize for over reacting. I did not mean to rub you the wrong way. Well I hardly know you to judge you now dont i? Sorry for the misunderstandings

[fameONE]

My humanistic ideals are accredited to my belief in Buddhism. However, I personally feel as though religion isn't a necessity to be a good person and for self actualization. But if someone is genuinely a better person thanks to religion without sacrificing an open mind, then whatever the religion is, I'm in full support.

I'm well aware of the inaccuracies of Christianity, but historical semantics cannot discredit spiritual fulfillment. Put into that perspective, religion as a whole, is false and its replacement should be scientific knowledge and common logic.

[vash1530]

But if someone is genuinely a better person thanks to religion without sacrificing an open mind, then whatever the religion is, I'm in full support.

You can't have a truly open mind and be religous because every religion has guidelines tat you must follow.

[*mipadi*]

You can't have a truly open mind and be religous because every religion has guidelines tat you must follow.

That's not always the case. Take Buddhism, for example: it is easily integrated with many other religions. It's not exclusive.

But I think all Brandon meant to say is that you can hold a belief, yet still understand and tolerate the beliefs of others. That's keeping an open mind.

[fameONE]

That's not always the case. Take Buddhism, for example: it is easily integrated with many other religions. It's not exclusive.

But I think all Brandon meant to say is that you can hold a belief, yet still understand and tolerate the beliefs of others. That's keeping an open mind.

[*kryogenix*]

Not true because I got rid of christianity in this way : i was a devout christian. I studied the bible, but as I thought about it more I questioned it more. Then I got into a argument with afriend about religion and he totally changed my mind on the subject. Given facts ad using logic, u can get rid of a person's misperceptions. If you can give me a good argument, u just may change someone's life. I mean isn't that how religions are started!

Well, can you give me the opportunity to change your mind back?

[NoSex]

Well, can you give me the opportunity to change your mind back?

And how exactly do you plan on going about that?

[xosteffanator]

Me= not religous, says god, doesn't go to church, but still prays a bit, and believes in god.

[*kryogenix*]

And how exactly do you plan on going about that?

Words.

[ComradeRed]

I have this friend who is quite religious and while we are good friends and I value his friendship, it's always awkward when he tries to convert me.

But I'm all for religion if it makes you feel better and it makes you a better person, go for it.

[NoSex]

Words.

So, if I were to ask you again, "how exactly do you plan on going about that," what would you say? By moving your mouth?

I'm looking for a real answer. What method do you think you could use to change someones mind on the issue? Reason, emotionalism? Do you have an idea? I'm curious.

Could you maybe present your argument here on the debate threads so we can see just how convincing it may be?

[omgah_itsmaggiex]

no. im not. i used to beleive in god, attended summer bible school, mass, and some other church events on the weekdays. as i got older, i just stopped believing.

i dont understand how there are so many other gods that other religions believe in where as christians believe in their one and only god. also, the whole adam and eve hooking up together and having like..390 different races of kids? it doesnt really seem true.

[f4113n]

religion is a way to explain what common sense cant, its just that when people believe too deeply their respective religions and disagree with each other on who created the earth or whatev, sometimes things get a little violent and a little bloodshed happens. totally not worth defending ur belief about who makes rain fall or whatever

sorry if i offend anyone but i dont really see the big deal about it all....lets just all be friends, regardless of who we believe created humans or w/e

[ComradeRed]

Everything in moderation; I've never met an atheist who couldn't be improved by some faith or a fundamentalist who couldn't be improved with some doubt.

[unicocira]

You can't have a truly open mind and be religous because every religion has guidelines tat you must follow.

In the bible it clearly states that God wants us to be open-minded, to gain knowledge.
Turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding - Proverbs 2:2

[FoxBandCutie08]

I am agnostic, raised in a Catholic house, and I decided to not be christian because I decided I can't find any proof that can convince me of God's existence.

I agree in the fact that religion is a comfort for many people, and I think deep down that some of them know that it's just a concept to help people emotionally. As far as christianity goes (I know nothing about Buddhism) most of the religions in it are very controlling. I think if there was a God, he would be open and understanding, but the people who worship him are often greedy and mean, and intolerant of other people's religious beliefs. They say such things as, you will burn in hell, for eternity, etc. That's not being very tolerant, OR trying to help them.

I think that we should get more people to believe in themselves instead of worshiping things they can't see. If you have strength in yourself, you have enough confidence to not have to pray and go to church all the time to make you feel better.

[yo pusha]

I am not religeous. I think that more and more religeous type people are using god as an excuse for their own mistakes, that is where the phrase "god has a reason for everything" comes into play. I believe that you manufacture your own luck, luck is labor under correct knowledge. I believe in hard work; the harder you work the luckier you get. There is nothing to convince me that God ever existed, and yes Kryogenix, try your best to change my mind. I am pretty open minded, and I am very interested in what you have to say.

If religeon helps you be a better person and is beneficial to you, then enjoy it. I, myself will rely on my values and my morals to help me be the person that I want to be.

respecting it depends on the case

Does their beliefs harm you in any way? What if there was such thing as God? Then we would all look stupid. And visa versa. So yes, I do not have to agree with your opinion, but I see no harm in respecting it.

peace

[Mulder]

no. im not. i used to beleive in god, attended summer bible school, mass, and some other church events on the weekdays. as i got older, i just stopped believing.

i dont understand how there are so many other gods that other religions believe in where as christians believe in their one and only god. also, the whole adam and eve hooking up together and having like..390 different races of kids? it doesnt really seem true.

well thats not exactly how its described in the torah.

though im not an expert. i havent been to services for like 4 years..

but..
basically god "created" the different races and languages from the people that already existed. dont remember why though. some form of punishment.


im still agnostic.

[NoSex]

well thats not exactly how its described in the torah.

though im not an expert. i havent been to services for like 4 years..

but..
basically god "created" the different races and languages from the people that already existed.  dont remember why though. some form of punishment.

It was because they built the tower of babel and tried to reach heaven. I guess back then the tower of babel was infinitely taller than our tallest buildings, cause God had to knock that f**kin' tower down. He even seperated these people by moving them all across the planet. He went as far as to change their languages and cultures so they would be so different that they wouldn't ever be able to build such a tall building again and reach heaven.

Oh, and the Bible is literally true.

[*kryogenix*]

It was because they built the tower of babel and tried to reach heaven. I guess back then the tower of babel was infinitely taller than our tallest buildings, cause God had to knock that f**kin' tower down. He even seperated these people by moving them all across the planet. He went as far as to change their languages and cultures so they would be so different that they wouldn't ever be able to build such a tall building again and reach heaven.

Oh, and the Bible is literally true. 

God didn't knock the tower down. The people stopped building the tower because they couldn't communicate anymore. The tower just became dilapidated.

[NoSex]

God didn't knock the tower down. The people stopped building the tower because they couldn't communicate anymore. The tower just became dilapidated.

My bad. Still. Super silly.

[vash1530]

^i love ur care free tone!!!

[pshaa.shauna]

vash----

To tell you the truth, athiesism is just as ridiculous as religion is. there is so many things both of them have not explained.

On the religious side, religion was in fact made by ancient people who needed to explain all of the miracuous things that were happening around them. How the sun came up, life grew, etc. Now that we can explain these things with science, some of the things in our "holy scripts" are wrong, but that's to be excepted. these texts were written by man, supposedly holy men, but man nonetheless.

On the other hand, science has prooved that there is no such thing as spontaneous cgeneration, so how do you explain how life was made in the first place? Plus, there are still many unexplained things on the planet, random miracles where people can see by being touched by a "healer" (granted, most of the time this is faked, but it has happened), "ghosts", "seerers". (Also, what I have listed could be classified as satanic in many religions, but the point still stands)

And again, is there is a higher being, I highly doubt any religion knows about it, there are so many, with so many contradictory beleifs, it's ridiculous. So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all.

[NoSex]

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]To tell you the truth, athiesism is just as ridiculous as religion is. there is so many things both of them have not explained.

All atheism is required to explain is why we should not believe in a God. And, that is an easy one, there is no reason to believe in a God in the first place. An athiest is not obligated to explain or justify anything aside from his lack of belief in a God in order for his atheism to remain rational.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]On the other hand, science has prooved that there is no such thing as spontaneous combustion, so how do you explain how life was made in the first place?

Spontaneous combustion is actually a reality. You may also know it as Spontaneous Human Combustion. It happens.

Anyways, I believe you were refering to spontaneous generation. Yes, spontaneous generation was debunked, for the most part, in 1859 by Louis Pasteur. However, this has very little to do with "how life was made in the first place."

This is an issue for science, but not so much for the atheist. The atheist simply does not believe in a God. How does the problem of the emergence of life challenge the idea that we have no reason to believe in God?

You have also failed to observe the exstensive studies in abiogenesis, the emergence of life from non-life, and the reality of virtual particles in the universe. Although spontaneous generation is not a reality, this does little to complicated the origin of life.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]Plus, there are still many unexplained things on the planet

Ok? Sure. We don't even understand how gravity exactly works. Now, how is this a serious argument against atheism? Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. All an atheist needs to do is justify being irreligious. Which, isn't hard.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]random miracles where people can see by being touched by a "healer" (granted, most of the time this is faked, but it has happened)

Uhhhmm? How do you know it has happened? Prove it to us.
Recreate it in a controled enviroment. Record it so we can all see. Give us all the data available surrounding the situation.
There is a reason no one has been able to do this, cause these things most likely do not truly happen.

As David Hume has always said, in any given situation where a "miracle" is claimed, there will always be more evidence that someone has simply lied, created a hoax, or hallucinated, rather than that the laws of the universe have overturned for a moment in time. As, we know that people lie, create elaborate hoaxes, and hallucinate. On the other hand, we have never documented the laws of the universe being overturned, and if we were to grant such an instance, what would become of scientifc vigor?

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM] "ghosts", "seerers". (Also, what I have listed could be classified as satanic in many religions, but the point still stands)

Again, prove it.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

Go take James Rani's million dollar challenege. You would be a first if you won.

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all.

Ok. This has got to be the worst statement of them all.

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

So it is close-minded not to have a firm belief in something for which there is no proof?!

[Spirited Away]

shauna,Jan 30 2006, 10:02 PM]To tell you the truth, athiesism is just as ridiculous as religion is. there is so many things both of them have not explained.

As I've mentioned before somewhere in this forum, atheism (and/or secular affiliates) doesn't (do not) claim to know all, the religion Christianity, along with Islam and Judaism, claim that their God is Almighty in power and knowledge...etc. So, while it's acceptable, plausible, and even excusable for atheism to miss the mark on knowing everything there is to know, I cannot say the same for some religions.

On the religious side, religion was in fact made by ancient people who needed to explain all of the miracuous things that were happening around them. How the sun came up, life grew, etc. Now that we can explain these things with science, some of the things in our "holy scripts" are wrong, but that's to be excepted. these texts were written by man, supposedly holy men, but man nonetheless.

As noted above, to claim that one's God knows all and that one's Holy Scripture contains the words of one's God made everything you said very contradicting. No, claiming truth while truth falls far, in the context that you said certain things are wrong, SHOULD NOT be "excepted" (I'm guessing you meant expected) when such deceit impacts so many, many lives, as well as the pursuit of truth and knowledge.

[pshaa.shauna]

All atheism is required to explain is why we should not believe in a God. And, that is an easy one, there is no reason to believe in a God in the first place. An athiest is not  obligated to explain or justify anything aside from his lack of belief in a God in order for his atheism to remain rational.

And a religious person has to only explain why they beleive as they do for them to remain rational. I stated it as irrational because vash---- seems to be under the impression that religion is ridiculous, but not taking in the flaws atheism has.

Spontaneous combustion is actually a reality. You may also know it as Spontaneous Human Combustion. It happens.

Anyways, I believe you were refering to spontaneous generation. Yes, spontaneous generation was debunked, for the most part, in 1859 by Louis Pasteur. However, this has very little to do with "how life was made in the first place."

On the contrary, Spontaneous Combustion has not been prooven, give me proof and I'll retract my statement but untill then, it's not possible.

And I did mean regeneration,sorry for that. But it has plenty to do with "how life started in the first place". If you are an athiest, you most likely beleive in evolution, unless you have some other unknown theory, because you aren't going to be belive Intellegent Design. So evolution states that every being evoled from another, and science has proven that billions of years ago, there was no life. Earth was a humongous ball of unihabital fire. So somehow, little tiny micro-organisms sprang to live, and no one knows how. It's unexplainable.

Ok? Sure. We don't even understand how gravity exactly works. Now, how is this a serious argument against atheism? Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. All an atheist needs to do is justify being irreligious. Which, isn't hard.

I'm not argueing against athiesm my dear, if you noticed, I also pointed out the flaws in religion. Religion was createed so primatives species had something to explain what went on around them, and now that we know (for the most part) we still have grown out of it. I'm simply stating both sides because many athiests tend to be arrogant, and think that science can explain what goe son. To be quite honest I am athiest.

Uhhhmm? How do you know it has happened? Prove it to us.

Again, prove it.

The point is you can't. Yes people lie, but people also tell the truth sometimes. We can't proove what they say is true, so we say that it isn't, but many people don't seem to realize that there are still many things that we can't proove, but that doesn't mean they aren't true.

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

So it is close-minded not to have a firm belief in something for which there is no proof?!

Okay so my point wasn't as clear as I thought it was, let me reiterate:

So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all, if you aren't willing to accept that what you belief doesn't explain anything.

Sorry for the confusion.

[*disco infiltrator*]

1) People need to start proofreading their posts. ><

^ Illiterate? You mean reiterate?

2) ACTUALLY, the current upheld theory DOES explain where life came from.

Millions and millions of years ago, when the Earth was cooling down from the large blast that had created it, many large asteroids were still flying around space from the blast. As would be expected, some of them ran into Earth. These asteroids contained the nucleotides that are found in DNA (Thymine, Cytosine, Adenine, etc.). These nucleotides synthesized themselves along with the elements present from the blast to form a sort of "molecule soup". Over time, the "soup" grew and formed into tiny matters of life. So, the theory that I accept as truth (because, to me, that makes a lot more sense than 'this guy came out of nowhere and created everything with his awesome powers and stuff') does indeed present an answer the formation of life.

3) The point Nate was trying to make about atheism not having to explain things is that the view doesn't try to explain things. Just because most atheists accept evolution as truth does not mean they are one in the same. Most religions present an explanation for life and to be a follower of that religion, you must accept that religion's explanation as truth. Atheism does not require you to have any view on the origin of life except for that a god did not create life.

4) Miracles are unexplained? Ever heard of coincidences? Sometimes, things just happen. Events don't need assistance to occur.

My "belief" does explain things. There's no need for me to accept something that isn't true. Having no faith in a god isn't stupid; it's logical.

[De112]

aight so where did this "large blast" come from? just popped up?

[*disco infiltrator*]

A giant star died. When large stars die, they explode. It happens all the time. People have seen it happen.

[NoSex]

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]And a religious person has to only explain why they beleive as they do for them to remain rational.

Granted, of course. However, a religious person has a greater amount of assumptions than an irreligious person. The burden of proof is much heavier on the religious individual. All an atheist has to justify is a lack of belief in God, which makes rather decent sense as we have little-to-no evidence of any religious claims. However, a religious individual must validate and make reasonable a great number of seemingly absurdist claims, ideas, and propositions.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]I stated it as irrational because vash---- seems to be under the impression that religion is ridiculous, but not taking in the flaws atheism has.

What exactly are the flaws of atheism?

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
On the contrary, Spontaneous Combustion has not been prooven, give me proof and I'll retract my statement but untill then, it's not possible.

It has not exactly been proven, however it has been demonstarted to be at least reasonably possible by the "wick theory" in which human fat, or other living fat cells, burn in a peculiar fashion.

However, most cases are just emphasized by an unknown source of ignition.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
And I did mean regeneration,sorry for that. But it has plenty to do with "how life started in the first place". If you are an athiest, you most likely beleive in evolution, unless you have some other unknown theory, because you aren't going to be belive Intellegent Design. So evolution states that every being evoled from another, and science has proven that billions of years ago, there was no life. Earth was a humongous ball of unihabital fire. So somehow, little tiny micro-organisms sprang to live, and no one knows how. It's unexplainable.

1. An atheist is not required to believe in evolution or any particular theory of the origin of life.
2. This does not threaten the original atheist proposition that "there is no good reason to believe in God."
3. Read about abiogenesis.

We can create the building blocks of life in a lab.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
The point is you can't. Yes people lie, but people also tell the truth sometimes. We can't proove what they say is true, so we say that it isn't, but many people don't seem to realize that there are still many things that we can't proove, but that doesn't mean they aren't true.

The burden of proof is still with those proposing a miracle.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
Okay so my point wasn't as clear as I thought it was, let me illiterate:

So it can be stupid to strictly follow one of these religious, but it's also extremely close-minded to have no faith at all, if you aren't willing to accept that what you belief doesn't explain anything.

I'm a rationalist. Of course I don't believe that what I believe can explain or does explain even half of everything.

shauna,Jan 31 2006, 7:12 PM]
Sorry for the confusion.

Not a problem at all.

[*kryogenix*]

A giant star died. When large stars die, they explode. It happens all the time. People have seen it happen.

Where'd this star come from?

[pshaa.shauna]

1) People need to start proofreading their posts. ><

^ Illiterate? You mean reiterate?

*sigh* Yes, sorry. Dang it.

2) ACTUALLY, the current upheld theory DOES explain where life came from.

Millions and millions of years ago, when the Earth was cooling down from the large blast that had created it, many large asteroids were still flying around space from the blast. As would be expected, some of them ran into Earth. These asteroids contained the nucleotides that are found in DNA (Thymine, Cytosine, Adenine, etc.). These nucleotides synthesized themselves along with the elements present from the blast to form a sort of "molecule soup". Over time, the "soup" grew and formed into tiny matters of life. So, the theory that I accept as truth (because, to me, that makes a lot more sense than 'this guy came out of nowhere and created everything with his awesome powers and stuff') does indeed present an answer the formation of life.

Where is this at? I'm not saying you're lieing, I just would like to know more about it.

3) The point Nate was trying to make about atheism not having to explain things is that the view doesn't try to explain things. Just because most atheists accept evolution as truth does not mean they are one in the same. Most religions present an explanation for life and to be a follower of that religion, you must accept that religion's explanation as truth. Atheism does not require you to have any view on the origin of life except for that a god did not create life.

Ah, okay. I didn't gather that.

4) Miracles are unexplained? Ever heard of coincidences? Sometimes, things just happen. Events don't need assistance to occur.

That's your opinion. Question: Have you ever heard of the Chaos Theory?

My "belief" does explain things. There's no need for me to accept something that isn't true. Having no faith in a god isn't stupid; it's logical.

I never said it was stupid, again I say, that I am an athiest. The wole reason i posted was that vash seemed to be a bit arrogant in the matter.

[sheridan_whitesi...]

Listen kids, when you get to college, you will learn all the science needed to prove the vast amounts of mysteries concerning the origins of life, the universe and everything. You might not understand these things, that's because they take the knowledge of more than thirteen years. On the other hand, the idea that a big guy in the sky did it can be understood by the average three year old. Due to religious indoctrination at a young age, people cling to the idea they heard first. Luckily, the first explanation I got was the real one, and when I started kindergarten at a Lutheran school and they told us about Adam and Eve during story time, I turned to my neighbor and said: "That's not how it happened." Of course, everyone else thought it did, and it seems that an embarrasingly large percentage of adults still think so. The only hope is for smart people to reproduce and introduce your children at an early age the wonders of science like my parents so graciously did.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Er, Shauna, it's still wrong. Sorry.

Me: oh my god
Me: i corrected that chick on "reiterate"
Me: she still did it wrong
Me: she had "illiterate"
Me: now she has "re-literate"
Me: noooo
John: re literate? To once again be literate?
Me: i guess.
John: like if I forgot how to read, but then figured it out again
Me: haha

[De112]

Where'd this star come from?

that's exactly what I'm saying. Sorry but everything points to a creator.