L.A. police kills toddler, =o.. Options

[emazing]

What do you guys think of this?

LOS ANGELES - A toddler was shot and killed when her father used her as a shield in a gunbattle with police following an hours-long standoff, officials said. The man also died and an officer was wounded.

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The man killed Sunday night after an hours-long standoff was identified as Jose Raul Lemos, and the girl, about 17 months old, was his daughter, police said. The officer, who was not immediately identified, was shot in the shoulder and was expected to recover.

"He was using the baby as a shield," Assistant Police Chief Jim McDonnell said.

"We showed a tremendous amount of restraint, but unfortunately the suspect's actions dictated this," he said. "It's a true tragedy."

The child's mother, Lorena Lopez, said she pleaded with officers to hold their fire.

"He had problems with depression, his business was not doing well," Lopez told KNBC-TV. "I told them that he needed help, he needs a psychologist, but please don't shoot. They didn't understand, and the police fired, like, 300 shots."

It was unclear who fired the shot that hit the girl, but officers were struggling with the thought that they killed a baby, McDonnell said.

"The officers are taking it very hard," he said. "Anytime you have a baby killed, it takes its toll."

The standoff began at around 3:50 p.m. when officers responded to an area in South Los Angeles west of Watts after residents reported an armed man standing near an intersection with a toddler and behaving erratically and aggressively.

There were three exchanges of gunfire between police and Lemos, who was about 35, McDonnell told reporters. In the final exchange, at around 6:20 p.m., Lemos held the girl as he shot.

"We did everything we could to hold our fire," McDonnell said.

At one point, Lemos retreated into an apartment building, where police said he held the girl hostage.

Police called in a SWAT team and tried to speak with the man; when they at one point attempted to help a neighbor escape the area, he fired at them and they fired back, McDonnell said.

Under police regulations, officers may only fire "when it reasonably appears necessary" to protect themselves or others from death or serious injury.

The man had a 9 mm handgun and a shotgun and was intoxicated on drugs and alcohol, police said.

I think the police officer should've held his fire rather than kill the toddler. o.o

[The-Mach-Hare]

thats really stupid that they kept shooting. id honestly sue. here in kc, 2 police officers are going to jail for crashing into a car while in a car chase and killing 2 girls. i thought that was whack, even though the cops should have been aware of their surroundings, as of the girls.

[illumineering]

That's horrible! The cops are supposed to set a better example than that

The father must have been really wacked to do that to his child. I feel bad for Lorena Lopez. She lost a son and grandchild

"We did everything we could to hold our fire," McDonnell said.

That's

"I told them that he needed help, he needs a psychologist, but please don't shoot. They didn't understand, and the police fired, like, 300 shots."

That's completely excessive and wrong!
300 SHOTS

[*mipadi*]

It's not the cops' faults; it's the guy who was using his kid as a shield.

[*jooleeah*]

I understand what your saying, but I don't think that it's the cop's fault....the father shouldn't have put the toddler up as a shield.

[heyyfrankie]

well, none of us were there so we don't really know the WHOLE story but 300 shots is completely ridiculous. that makes me mad.

[illumineering]

It's not the cops' faults; it's the guy who was using his kid as a shield.

Killing a toddler is completely wrong. The police did not need to shoot. The guy was messed up on drugs and booze. They are supposed to diffuse those types of situations, not escalate them into a violent gun battle that kills innocent people. It's their job to protect people from each other and themselves if necessary. After Rodney King they were supposed to be trained to not use excessive force.

[iheartjohn]

It's sad that things like this don't surprise me.

[sadolakced acid]

1. if someone is high and is running at you shooting with a gun, is it unreasonable to shoot back, even if he's using a shield?

2. 300 shots isn't a lot. probably 3 seconds to get that many. 27 rounds in a magazine; probably 15 or so officers

if you start shooting, why stop? if you didn't kill him, he has a gun and will shoot you.

[*mipadi*]

well, none of us were there so we don't really know the WHOLE story but 300 shots is completely ridiculous. that makes me mad.

I think she's exaggerating; I highly doubt 300 shots were fired.

[*lolita kitty*]

*sighs* people these days. that guy is an idiot, along wih all the police -_-;;

[*disco infiltrator*]

1.  if someone is high and is running at you shooting with a gun, is it unreasonable to shoot back, even if he's using a shield?

2. 300 shots isn't a lot.  probably 3 seconds to get that many.  27 rounds in a magazine; probably 15 or so officers

if you start shooting, why stop?  if you didn't kill him, he has a gun and will shoot you.

exactly. what were they supposed to do; stand there and get shot at?

[illumineering]

Under police regulations, officers may only fire "when it reasonably appears necessary" to protect themselves or others from death or serious injury.

I guess they forgot the protection clause.

[mouse_3k]

Ha, I love California...my home state...

Poor baby but the guy dead, once less bad guy in the world.

[bfleenor]

they were only doing their job. just not doing it right..... like i am told think before you do...

[PinkTrash]

The dad shouldn't have done that, use your daughter as a sheild? shame. And the police were really just doing their job; and i feel bad that they feel all guilty now.

[pshaa.shauna]

Again. People amaze me with their stupidity everyday. It is the cops fault. They are trained to not shoot unless their lives are being threatened, and they are NOT supposed to shoot when a civilian's life is at stake. It's the cops stupidity that got the kid killed. And again I state: I don't like stupid people, I am going to take a stand and say that they are bad.

[*anubis*]

they must feel pretty bad.

shooting a little girl like that.

i don't know how i'd live

[love_101_213]

A they could of shot the man in his foot or something
I'm shure they could of done some thing elce than kill the child
if they was think real hard i'm shure it did not have to end in death

[[Deep]Thought63]

horrible

[*incoherent*]

thats really whack. youd figure people would stop shooting if someone is in danger that shouldnt be.

[AngryBaby]

Awful

[[Scr3amin][Horro...]

^Bad Evan you spam.

Poor kid.
Just because of her dad.
SUE! Is alway the answer.
Okay maybe not alway but SUE!

[AngryBaby]

haha i was playin a game with Suzzette post wars lol

[sadolakced acid]

Again. People amaze me with their stupidity everyday. It is the cops fault. They are trained to not shoot unless their lives are being threatened, and they are NOT supposed to shoot when a civilian's life is at stake. It's the cops stupidity that got the kid killed. And again I state: I don't like stupid people, I am going to take a stand and say that they are bad.

well, how about when the target had a gun and is about to shoot you? like in this case?

the guy already shot one cop. should the others just stand there and let him keep shooting them?

A they could of shot the man in his foot or something
I'm shure they could of done some thing elce than kill the child
if they was think real hard  i'm shure it did not have to end in death

you're forgetting. he had a 9mm and a shotgun so you shoot him in the foot and he keeps shooting the officers.

thats really whack. youd figure people would stop shooting if someone is in danger that shouldnt be.

you'd figure you'd shoot if a person with a gun and hostage started shooting at police officers.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

"We did everything we could to hold our fire," McDonnell said.


That's 

i agree, thats CACA!

poor little girl.. why did they fire SO many shots ? if they had to absolutley KiLL the man, why not one clear shot to the head or something ? 300 , 30 or 3 were not need, but thats only in my opinion.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

"We did everything we could to hold our fire," McDonnell said.


That's 

i agree, thats CACA!

poor little girl.. why did they fire SO many shots ? if they had to absolutley KiLL the man, why not one clear shot to the head or something ? 300 , 30 or 3 were not need, but thats only in my opinion.

[dani41790]

Oh my gosh that's so wrong. I feel sorry for the kids mother.

[PiGo]

A police officer should never shoot if there's a child in the line of fire

period.

[sadolakced acid]

a man has a shotgun and a 9mm automatic pistol. he has his 17 month old todler and starts shooting at the police. what the f**k are the police supposed to do? just stand there and let him shoot him?

with handguns, you don't just shoot once. he may still be alive, and will probably still be able to shoot. you make the decision to take out someone with a gun- you fire as many shots as you can.

i'd like to see everyone who says the police did wrong to be given a gun, and have someone start shooting at them. are you sure you'd hold your f**king fire?

[Chii]

1.  if someone is high and is running at you shooting with a gun, is it unreasonable to shoot back, even if he's using a shield?

2. 300 shots isn't a lot.  probably 3 seconds to get that many.  27 rounds in a magazine; probably 15 or so officers

if you start shooting, why stop?  if you didn't kill him, he has a gun and will shoot you.

i completely agree...they didn't just go "hey this dude is annoying, let's kill him," they tried talking to the man for HOURS but that didn't work.

you can't help it if someone puts another person's life in danger. the man kept firing off his gun, if the police didn't try to stop him he could've taken many lives. including his little girl because he obviously did not care about her welfare when he used her as a shield.


i hate it how the woman is probably going to sue for millions, it's just ridiculous. money isn't going to make your daughter come back and if you really, truly felt bad about the incident how are you going to bring yourself to spend that money?

[vivieeeen]

*shrugs*

i say, can't blame the police
honestly, you cannot have a diognised man waving a gun around.

it's a 'you die, or i die' situation. besides, they paid their debt. They're going to live with it for the rest of their lives.

but the kid.. damn, that's so unfair!

>=[

unfair unfair unfair unfair unfair unfair!

[jaeman]

It was just one of those un-necessary mistakes that the police had to overcome.

[BrokenDream]

he was using his baby as a freakin shield?! geez, what do fathers do these days? why did they shoot 300 shots? that's not right. by the way, I never read that. where did you find it?

[toodlepops.]

Well, the father should've saved his child rather then being a chicken and using the toddler as a shield.
Plus, if the officer knew there was a child, why the hell did he comtinue shooting?

[*kryogenix*]

Also, it's unknown whether it was a police bullet or the father's bullet that killed the child.

[miss barnes]

oh i heard about this yesterday...so damn sad

[sadolakced acid]

he was using his baby as a freakin shield?!    geez, what do fathers do these days? why did they shoot 300 shots? that's not right. by the way, I never read that. where did you find it?

300 shots aren't a lot if there were 30 policemen.

[[Mediocre]Artist]

don't police have bullproof vests? An intoxicated man with a crappy little handgun shouldn't do THAT much damage. Why didn't they try to taser him or send in a team to surround the guy and shoot him from behind where it might not harm the child or shoot him in the foot so he dropped the kid? Something?!

[*kryogenix*]

don't police have bullproof vests?  An intoxicated man with a crappy little handgun shouldn't do THAT much damage.  Why didn't they try to taser him or send in a team to surround the guy and shoot him from behind where it might not harm the child or shoot him in the foot so he dropped the kid?  Something?!

So quick to judge. It is not our place to make judgements on this issue, yet so many people do. You weren't there. I wasn't there. Therefore, I give the police the benefit of the doubt.

And even still, you didn't even bother to read. If you did, you would have seen: "The man had a 9 mm handgun and a shotgun and was intoxicated on drugs and alcohol, police said."

A shotgun! That's lethal force.

[sadolakced acid]

don't police have bullproof vests?  An intoxicated man with a crappy little handgun shouldn't do THAT much damage.  Why didn't they try to taser him or send in a team to surround the guy and shoot him from behind where it might not harm the child or shoot him in the foot so he dropped the kid?  Something?!

imagine you're wearing a bulletproof vest. hang on... you relize it's a vest, right? waist down, neck up, sholders out aren't protected.


what would happen if a man shoots a shotgun at the head of someone with a bullet proof vest?

and a bullet proof vest isn't like, bullets just bounce off of you. it's like the bullet hits you. and cuts into the vest. and pushes in a grapefruit size hole in you. the bullet stays lodges, your body bounces back, but is heavily bruised.

[[Mediocre]Artist]

He was drunk! And high! I've got relatives that can't shoot someone standing right in front of them when they're "intoxicated"! I guess if this guy somehow had the ability to accurately shoot under those conditions, then fine - The cops can kill him. He'll rot in hell anyway for using a human (toddler at that) shield. *shrug*

[sadolakced acid]

Artist,Jul 12 2005, 12:33 PM]He was drunk!  And high!  I've got relatives that can't shoot someone standing right in front of them when they're "intoxicated"!  I guess if this guy somehow had the ability to accurately shoot under those conditions, then fine - The cops can kill him.  He'll rot in hell anyway for using a human (toddler at that) shield.  *shrug*

he doesn't have to hit a cop.

he has to hit any random person within firing distance.

if he was firing towards like... 5 civilians, the cops would fire regardless of the girl.

triage. minimize losses.

[mocassinsx29]

That poor baby, how can someone use a baby as a shield??! I'm not a baby-fanatic myself, but it's just a baby, c'mon.

[quyen101]

Sad society hahahah.

[shortiiex]

omg that is so sad..another life wasted
cops should held their fire tsk tsk

[*kryogenix*]

Sad society hahahah.

What The F?

  omg that is so sad..another life wasted
cops should held their fire tsk tsk

And have more lives killed?

[MarilynMonroe]

Jeebus.

That horrible.

[enyceXaddiction]

300 shots? unbelievable!

[*salcha*]

Eh, the police didn't really have a choice, but 300 shots is beyond crazy.

[sadolakced acid]

he shot at police twice, threatened his own family members twice, and then threatened to shoot his daughter, and then shot at police again.