Santo Subito, Immediate Sainthood of Pope John Paul II Options

[BeyondElite]

During the funeral of Pope John Paul II in Saint Peter's Basilica and Square, I noticed that thousands of People, mostly Poles, briefly interrupted the funeral of John Paul II with calls for his immediate canonization, with voices saying "Santo Subito,"(immediate Sainthood) and banners saying the same exact words. In your opinion, do you think Pope John Paul II should be decalred a Saint from his future successor? Why?

Since, according to the Vatican, it is highly possible that Pope John Paul II will be recognized as a saint, I consequently agree with the declaration of Pope John Paul II to Sainthood, because the Pope " testify to the public respect that he gained. As his mission by virtue of his office, Pope John Paul II emphasised what he called the universal call to holiness and attempted to define the Roman Catholic Church's role in the modern world. He spoke out against communism, imperialism, materialism, Nazism, racism, oppression and unrestrained capitalism. He defended traditional Roman Catholic teachings on human life by opposing abortion, contraception, human cloning, capital punishment, euthanasia, and war. He also defended traditional Roman Catholic teachings on marriage by opposing divorce and same-sex marriage." So, what do you think?

[SKDMNLE]

[image removed ] - simbaa

[XoJennaoX]

Saint : a person whose virtue and holiness was considered to be proven and who was already with God; a saint was considered capable of interceding with God on behalf of a person who prayed to them, and of performing miracles.

hmm...i'm not sure about the whole saint thing.....his views on human life and morals are stricktly the views that of the catholic church and not acceptable to everyone, considering morals are historically and geographically contingent, therfore i don't know if he is a true "saint"

of course let us not forget he is a good man to all.....but i think he is only a saint to those faithful to the roman catholic church.

[sadolakced acid]

and what's his miracle?

to be eligible for sainthood, one must have preformed a miracle.

[tmauze]

Quite frankly, I don't agree with the way that the Catholic church has to go through others in order to reach God. I believe you can talk directly to God, and I'm not close minded to other ideas, you simply have to take into consideration that in the Bible God says He wants to have a personal relationship with you and such a heirarchy makes such a task practically impossible. So making the Pope a saint would just contribute to such an idea. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I was just expressing mine.

[fameONE]

Give me an account of documented proof of JPII's miracles. Proove to me that he is God's vessel like the Saints of biblical past.

[pandamonium]

i dont think he needs to be considered a saint cause i think just his title of the "Pope" is big enough. i think pope has more meaning than a saint does. he doesnt even need pope he can be just john paul II . he is so high up there already.

[BeyondElite]

Do you need to have a miracle to be a Saint? No. And we're talking about Catholic Saint. Catholic Saints doesn't necessarily need to perform miracles so they may become Saints. They just need to be holy and do good deeds on Earth, defending their Catholic faith. For instance, Saint Cletus (third Pope of the Roman Catholic Church) became a Saint by defending his faith to Roman Catholicsm and being Holy and doing good deeds on Earth. He was declared Saint because of his martyrdom, even though he didn't perform miracles.

[*Solipsist*]

Do you need to have a miracle to be a Saint?  No.  And we're talking about Catholic Saint.  Catholic Saints doesn't need to perform a miracle so they may become Saints.  They just need to be holy and do good deeds on Earth, defending their Catholic faith.

My grandmother does all of that. Should she get sainted too when she dies?

- Solipsist

[*Fallen_Fairy*]

yeah i think he should become a saint, he was a great leader in the catholic church he did a lot of good, i'm glad i was able to live during his papacy

[fameONE]

Where my issue with 'santo subito' comes in is that JPII is not unique in being a man of God who devotes his life to serving others and working for God. By granting him immediate sainthood, we'd be overlooking all the other unknown 'servants of God' across the globe that don't get the same treatment.

[darkphyre]

Do you need to have a miracle to be a Saint?  No.  And we're talking about Catholic Saint.  Catholic Saints doesn't necessarily need to perform miracles so they may become Saints.  They just need to be holy and do good deeds on Earth, defending their Catholic faith.  For instance, Saint Cletus (third Pope of the Roman Catholic Church) became a Saint by defending his faith to Roman Catholicsm and being Holy and doing good deeds on Earth.  He was declared Saint because of his martyrdom, even though he didn't perform miracles.

WRONG

A Catholic must either have performed a miracle or died a martyr to be beatified.

One more miracle is required to be canonized.

Thus, a one must either a) die a martyr and perform one miracle or b) perform two miracles to become a Saint.

Check Wikipedia.

[*kryogenix*]

Do you need to have a miracle to be a Saint?  No.  And we're talking about Catholic Saint.  Catholic Saints doesn't necessarily need to perform miracles so they may become Saints.  They just need to be holy and do good deeds on Earth, defending their Catholic faith.  For instance, Saint Cletus (third Pope of the Roman Catholic Church) became a Saint by defending his faith to Roman Catholicsm and being Holy and doing good deeds on Earth.  He was declared Saint because of his martyrdom, even though he didn't perform miracles.

Karol Wojtyla did not die a martyr. Nor did he produce any miracles. He was a great man, and an even better pope, but I do not think he should become a saint.

[PinoyOtaku]

Karol Wojtyla did not die a martyr. Nor did he produce any miracles. He was a great man, and an even better pope, but I do not think he should become a saint.

Ditto on that. He is a man that not only leads, but represents what us Catholics should uphold. I look back at the family of the person from my HS who was killed in a car crash and I still remember reading articles about them wanted to press charges beyond all recognition to the man of the car that slammed into their late child's pickup. He had a funeral in one of our local Catholic churches and our HS (Catholic...) pretty much had a memorial mass but yet...I think about it...the thought of WWJD would linger. You could either forgive those that have done so much damage, to the extent of costing your life or of a loved one or to have them punished and condemned... Pope John Paul II chose the former, and that's what I wish to see among not only Catholics. Sorry for going off topic, but he does stand out among Catholics not only because he was our Holy Father, but by the compassion he shared. I'm not saying that he dosen't deserve becoming a saint, and of course I'd celebrate with fellow Catholics if he ever does become canonized, but yet...whatever happened to "humble servant"? He does deserve to be known through generations as a man of compassion, along the lines of Gandhi and King, but I dunno when I picture a saint, I would imagine it of a person who instead vowed to live where humanity's ignored live instead of lavish and prestigious surroundings, where the feel of death linger stronger than compared to St. Peter's Square. People like Mother Teresa and Archbishop Romero. But then again, it isn't I that should judge his possibility of sainthood and whatever decision it may become, I'll do my best to support and accept it. Again it's going to be hard to accept when we have Catholics worldwide living and dying in worse conditions but yet withold their faith but yet we don't hear any echo of "sainthood" going to them. JPII was an excellent leader for our Church and future Pontiffs should at continue on his legacy.

[Spirited Away]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7838982/

Latest news.

"Benedict overrides 5-year waiting period"

Not only miracles ARE NEEDED for sainthood, such miracles must occure AFTER John Pauls death.

Thus far, no such thing has been proven.

[*not_your_average*]

Although John Paul II was a great man, so many other people on this Earth have the potential to be good and defend their faith. Because of this, I don't think doing good should be a huge feat. Of course, in this kind of world nowadays, it surely is.

[madchenallein]

What uninspiredfae said is correct. It's not really a question of what Catholics the world over, or in Poland, or wherever, want. The Catholic Church has a process for canonizing people and it's necessary to have a waiting period. Partly because one of the requirements for sainthood is having miracles attributed to a soul's intercession with the Holy Spirit after that person has died, and partly because the Church wants to be sure that people and events around the candidate's life span do not unduly influence their canonization. On an interesting side note, check into the role of the devil's advocate (not the movie), which is a real job within the Catholic Church. The Church values accuracy and is careful about affirming what may or may not manifest God's presence or love.

In that light, the whole concept of canonizing someone officially is for the benefit of the Catholic people-those people who accept the tenets of the Catholic Church, so whether a person attains 'sainthood' as given by the Church, or not really only matters to Catholics. It's not a question of someone having the potential to do good or saying a dead person was or wasn't good, or 'good enough'.

The Church, in canonizing someone, is only saying they are in heaven, not they are the ONLY ones in heaven.

The technical definition of saint can vary, I suppose, but I have always understood it to have at least two meanings: 1 a person, living or dead, who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ in their heart and manifests those teachings in their daily lives in issues large AND small, and 2 a person canonized by the Catholic Church.

I am not saying Pope John Paul II does not deserve canonization, I'm just saying, let the Church do what it does and be patient.

Finally, I have read a lot of misconceptions about the Catholic faith here in this thread. The Catholic catechism, official teaching of the Church, does NOT say we have to go through someone else to talk to God. NOR does it say a priest forgives us of our sins. Contrary to what many non-Catholics and probably even some Catholics believe, the Church does not say you have to have the rite of reconciliation (Confession) to be forgiven. They encourage it often, but REQUIRE it at least once a year, because one of the main jobs of the Church is to foster the spiritual growth of its members, and if we have sin in our hearts, we are growing apart from God, not closer. Confession has roots in the Bible and in psychology.

Catholic or nonCatholic, don't make sweeping generalizations about the Church without consulting the catechism, not your best friend, or your priest, or your mom, or the internet.

Best wishes.