fur, what's your stand Options

[eunie03]

fur farm

It's not for the weak-hearted.

[karrar]

omfg where is this taking place ?

[racoons > you]

i am very much against fur...
especially the way things like those fur farms are run

i mean to raise animals for pelts is one thing, but a lot of countries have no kinds of standards to ensure these animals are kept in any kind of decent conditions.

urgh it makes me sick

[angel-roh]

I know same here! It makes me sick of watching them taking off
the animal's fur from its body. I'm against it.
I mean they need fur more than us. I do want the fur coats to stop.
I know it makes rich people look more fabalous and richer looking.
But still, I feel bad for the animals... well I eat meats and they are animals ehh... But whoever eats sheeps? eck.... or moose...
ewwwww. So yeah I feel bad for them only haha.
Ok I'm confusing myself. I'll just stop right here.
.
.

[ryfitaDF]

i'm against fur. theres no need for it anymore.
but then again, i'm very for meat. so i don't know how valuable my opinion is.

[racoons > you]

^^ they are tw different things
meat eating serves apurpose, fur for the most part doesnot

[angel-roh]

I'm only against with furs,
but not meats. We need meats!!!

[sadolakced acid]

i hardly trust the anything comming from PETA.

i could take a video of police brutality, stick an acronym on it and say look, police are evil.

but it wouldn't mean it's true...

[eunie03]

Well, police brutality is out of the norm.... not all cops are like that.

I hardly doubt theres any other way to skin a living animal.

But I do agree PETA is a little manipulative sometimes. I just think this video exposes the fur industry to its most shameful extent.

[racoons > you]

^^

well PETA will inevitably exagerate their side of the case, i mean they're hardly an unbiased source, they want to present an argument...

[RandomHero]

Yeah sometimes PETA can be way out there.
I don't care for fur & I don't know why we're still making/buying it. Do we really need it?

[william]

i think fur is stupid and unnecessary also. i saw that video this summer, it was disgusting. we went to this play/dinner thing last night and a bunch of the actors had real coat furs on, i wanted to throw my salad on them.

[sammehmyst]

omg. that's so sad.

they should leave those animals alone. :(

[aznxdreamer]

NO NONO NONONONONONONON NON NO NO NONO NON NON O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *SOBS FRANTICALLY* i couldnt watch the whole thing...

i am so against fur. my friend had this sheep skin in her room and i started petting it and scolding her for getting it.

[Freakerr]

i sound very air-headed by saying this, but fur is ugly.

I'll stick to cotton. Cotton>fur.

It's really dumb to do that to animals.

[mysticbreeze]

I'm completely against fur. It's horribly cruel, selfish, and unecessary. There is nothing to justify fur in today's society. Faux fur is just like the real thing only without the death.

[heyyfrankie]

<< that is how i feel right now!

after seeing that, it kinda makes me disturbed! whenever i saw them banging the animals on the ground i was like i am about to turn it off but then i thought that i would TRY to watch it but them i saw them scraping the fur off their bodies and i had to close the video! that is so sad! they need to find better, safer, less painful way to take the fur off.
BUT... i am strongly against fur being used for coats or rugs! it is just not right! i don't even think it is that good looking. it looks good on the animal but not on people! people need to leave the animals alone!

there there little abused animals!

Faux fur is just like the real thing only without the death.

in the video, that first animal they were skinning wasn't dead!

[nevernothere]

*sighs* That's depressing and inhumane... but it's legal to use fur and should be legal.

[gigiopolis]

I don't see a huge problem if the fur is coming from animals that are raised for food, because all the parts of the animal are being used, and food is necessary.

But to skin an animal alive just for the fur? That's just cruel.

[heyyfrankie]

I don't see a huge problem if the fur is coming from animals that are raised for food, because all the parts of the animal are being used, and food is necessary.

But to skin an animal alive just for the fur? That's just cruel.

very good point. if people are going to be killing the animal anyway, that i guess it is alright. as long as the animal is dead before they start skinning it! but if they are going to be skinning it and keep it alive, that is cruel. (just as you said)

[kokosofly]

Oh my... had to stop watching.
They definately should not be doing that

[demolished]

oh man, that's very sad .... i'm so much against it, just likeMarchHare2UrAlice ... why do they have to killl it ,, they can just trim it or at least dont kill it ..

[heyyfrankie]

i tryed to watch a little bit more of the video and it seems more like they are torturing the animals instead of skinning them.

[redderstarr]

omg... the poor animals...

[racoons > you]

I don't see a huge problem if the fur is coming from animals that are raised for food, because all the parts of the animal are being used, and food is necessary.

i agree... you can get leather which comes from food-cows, thats fine, food's necessary, ad it beats jsut throwing the skin away

[*kryogenix*]

that video was disappointing. they didn't even take the chainsaw out on that raccoon.

[aznxdreamer]

i couldnt believe the thing was still alive after it got its skin ripped off. then i saw a little scene of this beautiful white dog and i just couldnt bear to see what they were gonna do to it.

thats the seccond time i saw an animal get skinned alive.

[mysticbreeze]

i agree... you can get leather which comes from food-cows, thats fine, food's necessary, ad it beats jsut throwing the skin away

I understand your point but I read that a lot of the leather sold in the United States often does not come from animals killed for food: Here

*sighs* That's depressing and inhumane... but it's legal to use fur and should be legal.

Why should it be legal?

Also I understand some people's views against PETA but there isn't much they could have done to create an untrue look into the world of fur. Fur is obviously collected by subjecting animals to horrible cruelty no matter what organization's source it's coming from. The bottom line is the fur industry is vile and 100% uneccessary.

[Teesa]

the poor things..what they're doing is so cruel, I cannot believe it.

[*jooleeah*]

Oh, my. I saw the scene where they showed the raccoon. The poor thing was still alive, too. And when I saw a little of the white dog, I closed it. I couldn't stand watching that dog get hurt.
Er, please don't mind my ignorance, but is that even legal? If it is....isn't it animal cruelty? I know that's illegal. Again, sorry for my ignorance.

[racoons > you]

I understand your point but I read that a lot of the leather sold in the United States often does not come from animals killed for food: Here

oh i understand that... i only said that it is obtainable, and that it is not unjustified in those circumsatances... i wasnt implying that all leather does come from food cows

Er, please don't mind my ignorance, but is that even legal? If it is....isn't it animal cruelty? I know that's illegal. Again, sorry for my ignorance.

different countries have different laws.

and keep in mind that that may not be the norm... i suspect PETA went to an underground operation and presented the extremity of it as normality to anger people and bolster their cause

[*kryogenix*]

i'm sure what those guys did in that video is illegal. but, i'm pretty sure not all fur is obtained this way.

[Rachel]

ugh, i couldnt even get past the poor thing getting skinned alive. i am sick to my stomach just watching that. i will never ever EVER buy fur, it is one of the most disgusting fashion trends i can think of. just thought of WEARING an animal that was killed so some flaming designer can get paid makes me sick.

[sadolakced acid]

fur that doesn't come from food animals isn't all bad.

minks are used for fur coats, etc. and they farm minks, and kill them for thier fur.

HOWEVER, the skinned mink bodys are (in some cases) then sold to a biological science provider who preserves them and sells them for dissection classes.

[racoons > you]

^^

lol because disection hasnt proved at all controversial on here tho...

as long as the animals are put down before they are skinned, then it can be acceptable. its wone of those things 'i respect teh right to choose, but i would never choose it' kinda thing.

and the majority of fur farms will treat the animals fairlywell, because one of the first signs of an unhealthy animal is poor coat quality, which is exactly what they dont want...

however, to me personally there is justsomething warped abotu wearing the flesh of another living (well, once living) being

[eunie03]

however, to me personally there is justsomething warped abotu wearing the flesh of another living  (well, once living) being

And for what..... a fashion statement

For the illegal statement, it's not illegal in China (which is where it was filmed). We often import it from them.

[mysticbreeze]

Wearing fur is wrong no matter if the animals were treated "well" (yeah right) or not. It's selfish and faux fur IS AVAILABLE. There is no need for fur what so ever!

[sadolakced acid]

faux fur is sythetic.

my religion prohibits me from wearing synthetics. *
therefore i must use real fur.
*not really.

you need to find a bettter argument than 'there is faux fur'

[largosama]

It's not so much as as wasteful; they chuck this away

[sadolakced acid]

no, they don't.

there is no way a sane person would chuck that away.
there's good meat there!
it probably ends up in dog food or something of the sorts.

anywyas: it's a PETA ad; i doubt thier facts.

[mysticbreeze]

faux fur is sythetic.

my religion prohibits me from wearing synthetics. *
therefore i must use real fur.
*not really.

you need to find a bettter argument than 'there is faux fur'

Uh...I don't see you bringing up any points in this debate. The best argument in this debate is fur is not necessary what so ever and it's horribly cruel. How do you justify the fur industry? Are you debating against me because you are pro-fur or something? You act like Peta is as bad as the people who are actually murdering the animals or something.

[sadolakced acid]

Uh...I don't see you bringing up any points in this debate.  The best argument in this debate is fur is not necessary what so ever and it's horribly cruel.  How do you justify the fur industry?  Are you debating against me because you are pro-fur or something?    You act like Peta is as bad as the people who are actually murdering the animals or something.

PETA bombs buildings where humans work.
(ok fine they don't, thier members do and PETA provides the adresses of those places.)

I personaly prefer cotton and other fibers. I have no need for a fur coat or anything.

i'd like to point out i HAVE presented facts; maybe you didn't see them.

  fur that doesn't come from food animals isn't all bad.

minks are used for fur coats, etc. and they farm minks, and kill them for thier fur.

HOWEVER, the skinned mink bodys are (in some cases) then sold to a biological science provider who preserves them and sells them for dissection classes.

the fur industry is, to me, moral.

the only furs alloweed to be imported to the US are from animmals that can be used as food.

which means; rabbits are allowed, cats and dogs are not.

anyways: i'm trying to get you to present facts so there can be more debating. don't take it as a personal attack. it's a debate forum. support your opinions.

[largosama]

so um... foxes shouldn't be used I suppose.

Fur's been a symbol of the rich... there's no way the industry will stop so long as the upper class are willing to pay for stuff to stand out as "upper". The industry must go on... -_-

[sadolakced acid]

i dunno. maybe people eat foxes somewhere?

[eunie03]

Who decides what animals are okay to eat and not to eat? To skin or not to skin?

One of my main reasons why I became a vegetarian was when the whole "Koreans eat dogs" thing came about... I was like.. what's the difference between dogs and cows anyway? Some people keep cows as pets just like we keep dogs as pets.

I'm not saying it's wrong to eat cows (whatever makes you happy), but I don't see how "its okay" to use cow-hide for leather and not skin a dog for fur.

PETA (err... members of PETA) do bomb buildings. I'm not for that whole... passion-on-overdrive thing. I think it's insane. But to be fair, non-members of PETA bomb buildings too. We're human. Some of us are like that. What're you gonna do? Just because a few bad apples are in an organization doesn't mean the entire group stands for it.

[sadolakced acid]

well, i could forgive the group when their members do the whole bombing thing; but not when they pass out graphic pamphlets to children.

like "your mommy kills animals" with graphic pictures of women killing animals.

yes; it happens in the world. but that's no reason to show 1st or 2nd graders that graphic material.

most thier campaigns are graphic and some are directed at kids. Most of them contain wrong facts.

as a result; i think that PETA is not a reliable source. I also believe that they should not be distributing that content to children.

locally, a PETA group convinced a 12 year old girl to demonstrate with them outside a KFC. Without her parent's permission. So the police showed up ( mainly becuase they were on public property) and stuff.

thier message is fundamentally based on a good idea- that humans and animals are equal and should be treated like such- but thier presentation is too militant- religous for me.

[mysticbreeze]

the fur industry is, to me, moral.

the only furs alloweed to be imported to the US are from animmals that can be used as food.

which means; rabbits are allowed, cats and dogs are not.

Foxes, coyotes, raccoons and chinchilla aren't used for food and fur coats are made out of them in the United States. Besides who are we to say which animals should be killed and which shouldn't be killed for fur? Fur clothing has no purpose but to make selfish people who don't care about anything look rich. The animals were killed for clothing, clothing that has alternatives. We aren't freaking cavemen here.

PETA (err... members of PETA) do bomb buildings. I'm not for that whole... passion-on-overdrive thing. I think it's insane. But to be fair, non-members of PETA bomb buildings too. We're human. Some of us are like that. What're you gonna do? Just because a few bad apples are in an organization doesn't mean the entire group stands for it.

True. The Peta website has a page about etiquitte when conducting a demonstration or protesting. They don't say anything about "bombing building" blah blah. The people who do those things are extremists and don't represent the company.

well, i could forgive the group when their members do the whole bombing thing; but not when they pass out graphic pamphlets to children.

like "your mommy kills animals" with graphic pictures of women killing animals.

yes; it happens in the world. but that's no reason to show 1st or 2nd graders that graphic material.

most thier campaigns are graphic and some are directed at kids. Most of them contain wrong facts.

as a result; i think that PETA is not a reliable source. I also believe that they should not be distributing that content to children.

locally, a PETA group convinced a 12 year old girl to demonstrate with them outside a KFC. Without her parent's permission. So the police showed up ( mainly becuase they were on public property) and stuff.

thier message is fundamentally based on a good idea- that humans and animals are equal and should be treated like such- but thier presentation is too militant- religous for me.

Peta pamphlets are nothing compared to the viloence on television kids watch these days. I admit some things are graphic, but they show the truth. The kids can decide what they want to do about it themselves.

[sadolakced acid]

sure; fur has no purpose now. Synthetics are much better at insulating.

i have no fur; i wear no fur.

but i support fur, because fur is part of nature... i don't like that much synthetic stuff.

i dunno... the idea of a cabin in the woods with a bed covered in furs just sounds like a much better place than this synthetic world.

i don't like the killing. i think rich people who wear furs (although i have yet to see one) are stupid. But it's the idea of fur- our ancestors wore fur. real animal fur has this texture that isn't in fake fur- this idea that i like.

morally- furs don't make sense.

but i dunno... fur just appeals to some part of me.

but then again i'm talking more about skins, like deers skins/ moose skins.

i think it'd be cool to have one of those as a rug.

not becasue i like the look; because the idea of a fur rug makes this artificial world feel more natural.

but then again you don't see me chucking my computer out the window and going to live in a colony somewhere...

i dunno. it's not a rational liking.

[william]

Peta pamphlets are nothing compared to the viloence on television kids watch these days.  I admit some things are graphic, but they show the truth.  The kids can decide what they want to do about it themselves.

i saw the pamphlet when it came out on the peta site, and i found it much more disturbing than anything on tv. the cover was a drawing of a bloody woman with a knive killing a rabbit, and inside there were actual pictures of animals being killed. i don't know what shows you watch, but i don't see anything that bad on tv.

[mysticbreeze]

sure; fur has no purpose now. Synthetics are much better at insulating.

i have no fur; i wear no fur.

but i support fur, because fur is part of nature... i don't like that much synthetic stuff.

i dunno... the idea of a cabin in the woods with a bed covered in furs just sounds like a much better place than this synthetic world.

i don't like the killing. i think rich people who wear furs (although i have yet to see one) are stupid. But it's the idea of fur- our ancestors wore fur. real animal fur has this texture that isn't in fake fur- this idea that i like.

morally- furs don't make sense.

but i dunno... fur just appeals to some part of me.

but then again i'm talking more about skins, like deers skins/ moose skins.

i think it'd be cool to have one of those as a rug.

not becasue i like the look; because the idea of a fur rug makes this artificial world feel more natural.

You don't like the killing but you like the idea of materials made out of animals?

How is fur part of nature? In nature, things happen naturally, like for example plants growing. Would animals skin other animals in nature? No...

i saw the pamphlet when it came out on the peta site, and i found it much more disturbing than anything on tv. the cover was a drawing of a bloody woman with a knive killing a rabbit, and inside there were actual pictures of animals being killed. i don't know what shows you watch, but i don't see anything that bad on tv.

If Peta sugarcoated everything people wouldn't react to the ideas they were trying to convey. Yes, graphicness is disturbing but that's what's happening in this world. What are they supposed to draw pictures of little happy bunnies on the pamphlets or something?

[sadolakced acid]

fine. i love the killing.

the only reason i like the idea of furs is because i like the idea that an animal had to die for me to have that.

nature is not nature without humans. humans are a part of nature too.


furs are natural

plastic is not

metal is natural

lights are not.

[mysticbreeze]

fine. i love the killing.

the only reason i like the idea of furs is because i like the idea that an animal had to die for me to have that.

What's your point? Do I sense sarcasm? So you're pro-fur why again? Fur is manufactured in factories...that's not natural.

[sadolakced acid]

i dunno. i like the idea of them.

like i said, it's more of skins that i like; like taken from an animal that was also eaten by the hunter.

like a deer skin
or moose

you know?

but skins are natural.

in nature there are animals that kill other animals. and take thier skins. to keep themselves warm.

thier called humans.

sure; domesticated humans don't need to do this.

but a long time ago they did. and furs are like a link to that time.

(this is a time when i've left behind logic and reason for opinion and such. i just feel like doing this once. not finding facts and all. )

[mysticbreeze]

This topic is about fur not leather. But since you brought it up some leather is a by product of farming factories...chemicals are used to turn the animal skin into leather...

Uh we can debate about this forever...you're pro-fur for one reason or another and I'm completely against fur. You are pro-fur because it's "natural"? That doesn't make much sense. Why should we link back to the times when all humans were primitive. We live in the 21st century there's no need for hunting and crap like that anymore. Humans used to kill certain animals because they had to to stay alive. Modernized humans don't so what's the point...?

[sadolakced acid]

i'm not talking about hides...
i'm talking about skin with the fur attached
basically furs.
except it's more from larger animals... i dunno.

furs are from nature.
fake-furs are not.

need i explain why furs are natural?

[mysticbreeze]

I still don't think fur manufacturing is natural but you think it is...does that reason justify the cruelty of fur farming? Whether we are "superior" to them or not they're suffering for this vile industry. Put yourself in their situation.

[william]

If Peta sugarcoated everything people wouldn't react to the ideas they were trying to convey.  Yes, graphicness is disturbing but that's what's happening in this world.  What are they supposed to draw pictures of little happy bunnies on the pamphlets or something?

you have a point, but i just think that's extreme, especially since they were handing them out to little kids at nutcracker shows in december. i know it's the truth and they want to tell these kids what's going on, but i feel that that's taking it way too far. seeing pictures of dead animals as a child would have freaked me out more than made me feel sorry for them.

[mysticbreeze]

you have a point, but i just think that's extreme, especially since they were handing them out to little kids at nutcracker shows in december. i know it's the truth and they want to tell these kids what's going on, but i feel that that's taking it way too far. seeing pictures of dead animals as a child would have freaked me out more than made me feel sorry for them.

I can see your point...if I saw those things when I was little I would cry...tears still come to my eyes when I see things like that now. People need to see the truth though, but it would be better if the kids were at least above twelve I suppose. The issues Peta want to make awareness of can be spread through children a lot which is their aim, whether we support it or not. It's just a matter of opinion I guess...

[eunie03]

I still don't think fur manufacturing is natural but you think it is...does that reason justify the cruelty of fur farming?  Whether we are "superior" to them or not they're suffering for this vile industry.  Put yourself in their situation.

Marry me.

(on another note... I just found it funny that on the google banner, it shows how to purchase wholesale furs... in an anti-fur argument)

[yuna*]

omg..they are ripping off the fur while the animal is still alive?
I am against with wearing fur. Its sad to see that all those high-pay celebrities use their money to support the animal killing by wearing fur..
ouch..this video..

[c0oki3_m0n$tah]

i understand they needed fur like couple hundred years ago..or maybe even more. but now, we don't need fur. we have other ways to keep warm, u know.. it makes me sick to see how those people are treating the animals.

[yellowgurl]

its just wrong. faux fur.. is just as real ..

[wounded]

Do we wear humans for clothes? I think not.

[Paradox of Life]

Sadolakced acid, I really don't understand what message you're trying to convey. You are pro-fur because it's natural? So you'd be pro deforestation? Using wood from trees for our own needs and also slowly destroying the earth and depriving it of fertile lands and oxygen and animals that live in forests? Isn't that natural? And like mysticbreeze said, factory farming/skinning animals isn't natural. I think humans are taking advantage of their superior intelect to torture the animals. I think faux fur is a much more reasonable material for clothing. It looks just as good and it doesn't include the brutal torturing and skinning of animals. When the animals are skinned (they are still alive), their skinless bodies are thrown on top of each other in a big basket and they can be still alive for more than 5 minutes, dying a slow and painful death. I don't mind people killing and using resources from animals naturally (the FAIR way, using nothing but NATURAL weapons) like you stated, but factory farming is something that I'm strictly against. Alright, I'm done.

[sadolakced acid]

you do understand that faux fur is probably petrol based, right?

sythentics are bad for the environment. making them would probably produce enough pollution to kill twice the animals it would take to make a fur coat.

[liloandstitchx3]

i will eat animals.

i will not tolerate SEEING animals being beaten and people LAUGHING AND ENJOYING every single minute of it.

i will never wear fur. ever.

[Paradox of Life]

Well then, why is fur or faux fur even neccessary? If both are harmful to the environment, why do people damage it just for the sake of fashion? But I highly doubt that a few faux fur factories could kill more animals with pollution than the fur factory killing. It's not so much the killing I'm concerned about, but:
1. The decrease in animal population.
2. The way they are killed. Brutally and unhumanely.
3. The stupidity of it all. People are going to kill and destroy the environment for clothing and fashion!? Fur/faux fur is not a necessity.
4. Air pollution from factories destroying the earth!!
I know air pollution is unavoidable as far as there are industries, factories, cars and etc, but it would be so much better if any sort of fur was not produced. -_-;

[twelveislands]

It doesn't bother me that much. As long as the animal isn't nearly extinct then [shrugs].

Why wear fur when there's fake far though?

[gOODpIRATE]

It doesn't bother me that much. As long as the animal isn't nearly extinct then [shrugs].

Why wear fur when there's fake far though? 

yes, but it is still an animal. it has a right to live, you know what i mean?

which is one reason why i stopped eating meat all together, or in other words, became a vegitarian. when i first attempted becomming a vegitarian, i did it for heath, and when i really did my research on animals being killed for fashion, it made me stay away from meats even more.

[`SWTWiNKLE3YES]

that movie/whatever is sad & scary. i just had to stop it and not see the rest. the raccoon (or what is seemed like one) died! and ..... im just =T

[misoshiru]

i'm very much against fur. that video made me cry.

if they want fur so bad, why can't they at least do it some other more humane kind of way. at least inject the animals with anesthetics or something. just don't skin them alive.

[XoJennaoX]

I never liked fur since i saw 101 Dalmations!....now everytime i look at a fur designer i see cruella deville..lol.....what is the problem with fake fur? i mean i love it...it really isn't that bad.....but of course spoiled rich people want the real thing ....and as long as there is a demand for it, fur farms will continuue to operate.

[xMayleex]

It disgusts me that people can wear something that has been butchered, subjected to torture though they sometimes can be dead or alive, its still digusting cutting up a carcass and making it into a jacket or a coat, how could anyone be so barbaric to wear it or do it, people should know better. Animal testing is just as bad, they are sticking things in animals eyes, its makes me so sad that animals are used in this kinda manner.

[sadolakced acid]

there is no more debate. people are just stating opinions.

[innovation]

there is no more debate.  people are just stating opinions.

well, you see mr.-forensics-kid, cb debate is very different from high school debate. the purpose is to exchange opinions, since there is no "official" debate structure.

[Spirited Away]

^ And I'm inclined to agree with the both of you.

closed.